WTH? Riverside Park to be closed off again?

Update April 29, 2015: Mayor Duggan announces expansion of Riverside Park, improvements to train depot and deal with Morouns. Jump to latest discussion >>

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Apparently there has been a discovery of soil contamination at Riverside park that has led to it being closed immediately and possibly for several months or longer.

"The City of Detroit Recreation Department is temporarily closing the city's 20-acre Riverside Park near the Ambassador Bridge because of contaminated soil and ground water.

Alicia Minter, the city's director of recreation, told a community meeting Monday evening that the park would be closed immediately to visitors until the city could determine the extent of the problem and develop a plan to clean it up."

http://www.freep.com/article/20120321/NEWS01/120321050/1001/rss01

Isn't this the same parcel of property that was gifted to the city by MichCon back in the 70s or 80s? I can't remember all the details from back then, but IIRC after the "gift" the property was discovered to be contaminated. MichCon had egg on their face because it appeared they were trying to unload it on the city for cleanup. I think eventually, MichCon did clean it up at their expense. Assuming it was clean back then, and only used for recreational purposes since, how does it get "dirty" again? I can think of one way...

the contamination at the site probably goes back a long ways. here's a 1876 map showing the gassification plant right in the path of the yet to be built ambassador bridge. What is now riverside park starts at 24th street [[lower left corner) and jefferson [[then Woodbridge St)

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/m/micounty...image&size=400

The map would indicate that what is now riverside park was once the river and was probably filled in to make room for the gasworks when the bridge went up [[late 1920s) if not sooner.

It wouldn't be unreasonable to suspect that the fill used for the base of the park was drawn largely from the excavation of the old gas works as they dug the footing for the giant support pier of the bridge.

Don't underestimate Matty.

I missed the meeting last night, but I wonder who ordered the soil testing, why did they order the testing, when did they order the testing.

It seems unusual to me that a City that has no resources, that can't keep streetlights working, has to close Police stations, and is essentially on the brink of collapse ... seems unusual that they would just be sitting around and decide to start drilling.

There are a whole lot of Who, What, When and Whys that were untouched in that article. Now maybe those questions where addressed in the meeting, but considering the controversy with the DIBC, it seems hinky.

Got it, jon. I'm ignorant on what it takes to clean a contaminated site. Were the standards different 3 decades ago? Could that be a reason why the contamination leeches back? Or, once these sites are cleaned, are they supposed to stay that way indefinitely? Great map, btw. Look at the city limits!

Marty MarOON did it. Let him clean up the poluted mess he make in the Southwest Downriverfront area.

I vaguely remember as a child visiting Riverside Park in the 1960s, when my mother's cousin and her family came for a 1 day excursion on the old Auquarama Ship from Cleveland [[and parked at Riverside Park), and remembering not only how big the boat was, but also how cool the bridge looked from close up in a park. So at least part of Riverside Park has been there as a park for quite a while...

environmental liability is pretty complicated. every previous owner of a contaminated parcel can be held liable for injury and cleanup costs. the result is that contaminated land is virtually useless to wealthy developers.

the way around it is to get a letter form the epa saying that the contamination is remediated. it's a matter of public record so if one was issued for riverside park, it should be around still. the letters are granted for a specific purpose. the level of remediation required for a parking deck may differ significantly than what is required for a dirt bike course.

often times, the treatment is pretty minor, strip the top few feet, put down a liner that exists mainly to warn off future diggers and cover with clean soil. other times, extensive pump and treat systems are required or even very deep excavations [[like the uniroyal cleanup)

First off the city is hoping to have the site reopened by July. This is what I sent to the local community list serves about the meeting.

I wanted to give you my synopsis of the meeting the community had with the city yesterday. As someone who is very involved with the park I am saddened by its temporary closure but want to make sure that the site is re-mediated and reopened as soon as possible. The city did say that there will be future meetings and that they will be partnering with SDBA and SDEV on this effort. Please see my comments below. I want to give a little historical info on the site and give an update from the meeting. I talked to Sam Buchanan from J.W. Wescott and this is what he was able to tell me. From the early 1900s till about the 1950s the Riverside Park site was used as a Coal Gasification site by Michigan Consolidated Gas[[Michcon/DTE). Here is a link on the environmental effects of Coal Gasification from Chris Detjen.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_gasification#Environmental_effectsThe area then donated to the City of Detroit in the 1960s prior to Environmental Regulations. [[The Area that was mainly used for coalgasification) was the area where the boat launch currently is). Back in the mid 1980s Michcon skimmed 3 inches of Dirt off the Boat launch area and put a cap on the site of former use, [[however this must not have been sufficient.) Now to the Meeting...The city says that in November or December of last year just as the ruling came down on riverside park, the DIBC made accusations that the site is contaminated, and they discovered this contamination when they put up there illegal fence on the park. The city could not ignore those accusations and took measures to make sure the park was safe, however the citys environmental affairs department took 3 to 4 samples in different areas of all 3 segments of the park. From what the preliminary findings show the soil has been leached and that the party responsible will be held accountable and will pay for the remediation[[presumably DTE). The site needs a full environmental survey now which the city has already applied to the EPA for in the amount of 550k. They will be closing the park temporarily till the full risks are assessed. Most of the leached soil is still 8 feet down, and poses a small risk. I am saddened by the temporary closure of the park but do not feel that this is a ploy to sell of the park. I just hope that the clean up is done in an expeditious and thorough manner and that we all stay focused on improving the park and not let this issue divide city and community on the bridge issue. I for one do not feel the city would have put the $ into riverside boat launch if they thought this was an issue previously or they were planning on selling it off to Moroun.Again, We need to monitor the situation closely and push for the site to be cleaned up in an expeditious/comprehensive manner and the site to be reopened ASAP! This is one of our best public assets in the city and my hope is that the site will get the attention it deserves. The city has assured us that those who were recreating there will be able to be accommodated at other existing sites until then.That's my 2 cents on it. Joe Rashid

Friends of Riverside Park
BridgeWatch Detroit
Detroit Parks Coalition

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Originally Posted by downtownguy

Got it, jon. I'm ignorant on what it takes to clean a contaminated site. Were the standards different 3 decades ago? Could that be a reason why the contamination leeches back? Or, once these sites are cleaned, are they supposed to stay that way indefinitely? Great map, btw. Look at the city limits!

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Sometimes from ground water contamination. It can be cleaned up permanently....with a cost

Quite a spread between the 3 inch skimming Joe describes happening in the 80s and the "top few feet" Jon says is typical. Did the standards change that much in 30 years I wonder, or did MichCon get a pass?

At least we can take comfort that Maroun was actually looking out for our health and safety when he brought up the issue of contamination. Maybe he's not such a bad guy after all...

http://www.shorpy.com/node/9405?size=_original

What appears to be the construction of a gasometer near the corner of West Grand Blvd and 24th street

And here is a pic from 1908 of the Uniroyal site before it was Uniroyal. Notice the gasometer in the background.
http://www.shorpy.com/node/12179?size=_original

My initial feeling is that this has got to be trumped up. I'm sure there's contamination all over Detroit's parks, and the DIBC is just ensuring the park remains closed to the public -- under another rationale.

Thanks for the extensive update urbanoutdoors!

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Originally Posted by urbanoutdoors

The city says that in November or December of last year just as the ruling came down on riverside park, the DIBC made accusations that the site is contaminated, and they discovered this contamination when they put up there illegal fence on the park.

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I figured the gnarly old hand of Matty had to be involved in this.

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Originally Posted by urbanoutdoors

I am saddened by the temporary closure of the park but do not feel that this is a ploy to sell of the park. I just hope that the clean up is done in an expeditious and thorough manner and that we all stay focused on improving the park and not let this issue divide city and community on the bridge issue. I for one do not feel the city would have put the $ into riverside boat launch if they thought this was an issue previously or they were planning on selling it off to Moroun.

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I really hope you're right, but I definitely have grave doubts. I'm still thinking that DIBC is looking for some way to leverage this cleanup to get their way. I certainly don't think that the fact the city built the boat launch means that they won't pull the rug out from under us. They have wasted $$ before on new things that they then tore up, sold, or abandoned.

There were still gas towers at the bridge into the 60's.

Attachment 12552

Also, your history of the area is essentially correct. The western part of Riverside Park was a ballfield going back into the 1930s and was built on fill land. The excursion boat dock that Gistok remembers was built sometime in the '50s and shows in DTE aerial photos from that time. What's now the eastern portion of the park was mostly taken up by a large gas works from the mid-1800s to about 1960. I had an great-uncle who worked there for many years.

The gas works ran from Fort St. to the river [[bisected by W. Jefferson), and roughly from 24th St. over to the bridge. The bridge was actually built over part of the gas plant, and the railroad roundhouse next door to the east. The portion of the gas works south of Jefferson was where the coal was delivered by boat & train and stored and handled. Maps from the 1920s show coal storage and a large retort furnace there for the burning of coal.

With the rising availability of natural gas, and the breaking up of the coal/gas monopolies, coal gasification slipped out of use and the coal portion of the gas works was shut down. Most of the gas co. buildings south of Jefferson appear to be gone by the late '40s. But the area was still owned by Michigan Consolidated Gas and did not become park land until the entire gas works was closed and demolished in the early '60s.

Hard as it may be for some people to believe today, no thought whatsoever was given to things like ground contamination back then. The city was just happy to have the land for a park. As Detroitnerd says above, any number of Detroit parks were built on former industrial sites, as were entire neighborhoods. Hell, when I was a kid in the '60s many Detroit Public School playgrounds, including the one at my elementary school, were surfaced with slag left over from steel production, which was given to the Board of Ed at little or no cost.

Thanks all for the info. Thanks Eastsideal... I kind of thought that we were west of the bridge where the boat docked. As a young kid that boat looked huge like an ocean liner... and the water must be pretty deep at that dockside site. The enormity of both the boat and bridge were among my earliest recollections of Detroit [[2 other very early memories were remembering that I-94 ended at Vernier/8 Mile with the dirt removed trench ending just past the exit... and also visiting the Ford Rotunda at Christmas).

i used to like to sit in my car and watch the boats go thru there, the cars go over the bridge. Listen to the Windsor University radio programs. Drink beer and draw

Clip from 1961 DTE aerial photo of the Riverside Park area, showing ship dock [[with docked ship), a smaller boat [[mail boat?) docked at J.W. Wescott, 2 enlarged parking areas, a couple of remaining gas tanks, a mostly empty area where the gas works used to be - including rough new parkland south of the railroad tracks, and the remnants of the recently demolished train roundhouse in the upper right corner.

Attachment 12555

You can get contamination from a source up to a mile away , if a service station has a tank leaking the contamination will flow with the ground water effecting everything along the way , being it is close to the river downstream it may be hard to find the source .

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Originally Posted by Richard

You can get contamination from a source up to a mile away , if a service station has a tank leaking the contamination will flow with the ground water effecting everything along the way,
being it is close to the river downstream it may be hard to find the source .

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If they do not do the perimeter wells it may be history repeating itself.

And where is the edit post thing on mobile?

Just look at the Lange/Revere Canal in St. Clair Shores near 10 Mile/Jefferson.

http://www.macombdaily.com/articles/...6690835528.txt

The EPA has been working on that for 12 years now and said it may take until 2014 to find the source of the contamination. They said that since most of the area has heavy concentrations of clay in the soil that it's not a hazard for the surrounding areas except where the water flows into the storm drain and into the canal.

Based on how ineffective the EPA has been in SCS... I wouldn't doubt that Matty et al could use such a scenario to their advantage in keeping the park closed for quite some time. :mad:

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Originally Posted by Gistok

Just look at the Lange/Revere Canal in St. Clair Shores near 10 Mile/Jefferson

http://www.macombdaily.com/articles/...6690835528.txt

The EPA has been working on that for 12 years now and said it may take until 2014 to find the source of the contamination. They said that since most of the area has heavy concentrations of clay in the soil that it's not a hazard for the surrounding areas except where the water flows into the storm drain and into the canal.

Based on how ineffective the EPA has been in SCS... I wouldn't doubt that Matty et al could use such a scenario to their advantage in keeping the park closed for quite some time. :mad:

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Considering EPA figures you can contaminate an entire neighborhood by sanding a lead paint based window , they are very easy to manipulate in those regards and its back to politics.

Iam at a loss as to the closing of the park due to contamination, Back in the late 80's the park was closed due to contamination and completely rebuilt including the boat launching area. I can not figure how it got so contaminated again?

Update April 29, 2015: Mayor Duggan to hold presser to announce expansion of Riverside Park, improvements to train depot

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Well...its mid-July and Riverside Park is still 'closed'. But people are still finding ways to drive in there: Cars have been jumping the curb and driving on the grass. Trash cans are overflowing and trash is everywhere. The Recreation Dept. has posted signs stating that use of the park is 'restricted' pending further environmental investigation.
Attachment 14528

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This was highlighted by The Detroit News today:

July 15, 2012 at 1:27 pm
Detroit's Riverside Park still special to regulars despite contamination

By Jim Lynch
http://cmsimg.detnews.com/apps/pbcsi...-contamination


Bins overflow with trash along the Detroit River in Riverside Park. [[David Coates/The Detroit News)


Detroit— As a young man, Ackaliameer Assar Ackbar said he came to Riverside Park for much different reasons.

Then, the park meant games of Four Square, a playground and fishing. Today, the park is his quiet place to sit and meditate. Reginald Clark[[cq) fishing off Riverside Park

But the park, which was closed in late March, took on a different kind of quiet after elements of environmental contamination were discovered last year. And that action only added to the park's problems, regulars said.

People still come onto the site, despite recently erected city signs declaring "Restricted Use" and "environmental contamination."

On a recent Friday, it was business as usual, with the park entrance open and visitors able to drive up to the parking lot and onto the river walk area.

Those visitors regularly trash the 20-acre site. And with limited city services, the grass is overgrown and the authorized traffic has gutted the grounds.

Undeterred, Ackbar, who lives a few miles away, regularly visits the park, making his way through the overgrowth and garbage, to a spot where he can meditate for an hour or so.

Refreshed, he leaves, but never empty-handed, he said.
"I try to pick up as much trash as I can when I go," said the 40-year-old father of five.

Area residents are concerned about the future of the area.

Joe Rashid, a community activist, is among area residents concerned about the park that city officials in March said would be closed for "several months." However, no action has been taken on the cleanup.

Rashid, who is among those trying to save Riverside, said it's important that officials take the public's health and welfare into account. "At the same time though, people have been playing ball there for 30 years. We need to make sure everyone's protected before it reopens."

Preparing for park cleanup

The history of troubles is a long one.

The site, once the home of a tobacco processing plant and an auto parts production line, eventually housed a coal gasification plant for Michcon. The site was eventually acquired by DTE, which now bears responsibility for the grounds.

In addition, the park has been the center of a long-running standoff between community activists and the owners of the nearby Ambassador Bridge, over the bridge owner's attempt to annex some of the parkland.

In the aftermath of a dispute last summer, contractors discovered elements of environmental contamination in the park. Testing showed the presence of volatile and semi-volatile organic compounds that can be hazardous to human health, including mercury, a carcinogen that can cause nervous system damage.

Three parcels in the park appeared affected — areas that include the baseball diamonds and the boat launch area. Two of those parcels are the responsibility of DTE. And the third, which includes the river walk and fishing area, were likely contaminated by the other two, according to city officials.

"Right now, DTE and [[their consultants) are preparing a work plan," said John Shields, a project manager for Michigan's Department of Environmental Quality. "That will outline just what they propose to do to delineate and identify the types of contamination present on the property."

State officials said the investigation is ongoing, but no timeline is in place.

Westcott Co. working with it

Meanwhile, J.W. Westcott Co. is caught in the middle of the controversy. The company, whose ships have docked in the park area for almost 140 years, uses the launch site to bring mail and supplies out to passing freighters along the Detroit River.

Their spot, which sits right in the middle of the park, oversees one of the narrowest sections of the river and provides good visibility for miles up and down the waterway.

But the site, which has served as a tourist spot over the years, is suffering from the lack of attention given to the park these days.

"People, so many different people, come from all over the world to visit our place," said Sam Buchanan, a Westcott senior operator and mail boat captain.

"They just look at this area and shake their heads. They want to know what's wrong with Detroit and what's wrong with America when they see it."

He described how on a typical day at Westcott includes watching the homeless pouring through the park's garbage cans in search of bounty.
The unwanted trash, he said, is never returned to the cans and occasionally vagrants will threaten company workers.

A nearby fire hydrant has been put out of service, and was hard to find anyway, he said, because of the overgrown grass.

Appeals to the city have fallen on deaf ears, Buchanan said.

"We just want to operate safely and have a place where our customers can come and feel comfortable," he said. "Right now, we don't have that. It's very embarrassing."

jlynch@detnews.com
[[313) 222-2034








From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz20kBp6qOV

Yeah, they closed off more this year. Up to this summer you could still enter and fish or river watch south of the Westcott dock. Now you have to come along the back end, without access to the horrid, but at least once available parking lot.

Some folks drive up onto the grass and park at the waters edge as the remaining entrance area along the side can only accommodate so many cars.

BUT if the police cruise along [[in their spare time - smile) and see all the cars, they can and have done ticket sweeps [[for unlawful entry and grass parking) with a captive audience of cars to ticket unable leave 'without' receiving tickets since there's only ONE WAY OUT past the cops who block the narrow exit now! Good times.

I witnessed a 'warning' sweep two weeks ago - police bull horn - loud speaker warning everyone to get off the grass, which everyone did, sweeping up hot grills and fishing reels and all in their haste. That was a vision! I wasn't parked on the grass and backed out without fanfare.

I was told the day before they did tickets and in some cases further inquiries as to the driving 'status' of a few individuals. Even more good times!

The 'environmental' warning signs are all over the park. The trash is knee deep as well as the elephant grass! Yet you see some die-hards trying to git a glimpse of the water, a bit of a cool breeze - withstanding the trash stench - or read a few pages of a book or magazine by river side [[that was what I was doing)...

Mayor Duggan to announce expansion of Riverside Park, improvements to train depot

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Originally Posted by John

Mayor Duggan to announce expansion of Riverside Park, improvements to train depot

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Well, this is a bit of unnerving news. The park I can understand, but what does the COD have to do with a privately owned building? What concessions did Dug-in promise the Moroun camp?

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Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Well, this is a bit of unnerving news. The park I can understand, but what does the COD have to do with a privately owned building? What concessions did Dug-in promise the Moroun camp?

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Maybe the announcement of the park expansion coincided with the beginning of the publicized window work at MCS? It's a win for all parties, Moroun gets some good pub and the mayor attaches his face/city to the improvements. Thats not to say Duggan wasn't directly involved in the situation or could have offered them some incentive as you eluded to. I'm looking forward to seeing it with new windows though. Fingers crossed that "exterior" means power washed too.

Duggan might as well announce that the city's biggest eyesore is getting a clean-up, it continues to convey the message that Detroit is rebounding quickly and the mayor is facilitating the turnaround. People/Businesses in the suburbs are seeing these announcements week by week through local news outlets. The momentum seems undeniable, but is it sustainable?

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Originally Posted by Dbest

Maybe the announcement of the park expansion coincided with the beginning of the publicized window work at MCS? It's a win for all parties, Moroun gets some good pub and the mayor attaches his face/city to the improvements. Thats not to say Duggan wasn't directly involved in the situation or could have offered them some incentive as you eluded to. I'm looking forward to seeing it with new windows though. Fingers crossed that "exterior" means power washed too.

Duggan might as well announce that the city's biggest eyesore is getting a clean-up, it continues to convey the message that Detroit is rebounding quickly and the mayor is facilitating the turnaround. People/Businesses in the suburbs are seeing these announcements week by week through local news outlets. The momentum seems undeniable, but is it sustainable?

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Maybe putting a roof on it first would be the more prudent idea?

Screw you, Michael....

Mayor Duggan vows support for Moroun's effort to build a second span of the Ambassador Bridge. @detroitnews
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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDxTMiVW0AAxOtH.jpg

Well this is a insane twist. The new Riverside park is fabulous and looks great. Nice win for that area.

But it also appears that Duggan "supports" a secondary crossing built by Mouroun on top of the NITC. Not sure WTF he's thinking on that.

The roof on the tower was replaced a few years ago.

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Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Screw you, Michael....

Mayor Duggan vows support for Moroun's effort to build a second span of the Ambassador Bridge. @detroitnews
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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDxTMiVW0AAxOtH.jpg

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You called it Honky, but does Duggan really believe theres a chance in hell this ever happens? If not, he's just using his vocal support of that bridge to leverage a speedier clean-up of MCS.

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Originally Posted by Dbest

You called it Honky, but does Duggan really believe theres a chance in hell this ever happens? If not, he's just using his vocal support of that bridge to leverage a speedier clean-up of MCS.

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That's the only thing I can think of. Duggan knows it won't get approved by the Government or obtain the required permits, so hopefully this is just leveraging to get the park redone and expanded. Although I'm disappointed that the "major news" on the MCS is just the windows getting put in by the end of the year, which we all knew was happening anyways.

The 2nd ambassador bridge isn't getting built. Anyone with a brain at this point is aware of this. The Canadian government will never allow it. I honestly think Duggan just voiced his "support" of a bridge he knows will never happen for $3,000,000 and a few extra acres of prime land. Pretty good deal for the city of Detroit IMO.

The train station part of the news was just extra irrelevant noise.

Duggan's support is nothing more than a "good luck" to Moroun. And really that's how a politician threads the needle between full endorsement and outright alienating a private business operating within the city.

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Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Well, this is a bit of unnerving news. The park I can understand, but what does the COD have to do with a privately owned building? What concessions did Dug-in promise the Moroun camp?

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Could Duggan have offered to help stall/roadblock the progress of the downriver bridge project? Block or delay land acquisitions?

Matty isn't just giving $$$ away, or doing a good deed to be "nice"... I'm speaking strictly of the land and park deal here.
The windows are BS, after letting the bldg rot for decades he's willing to put a new facade on it to fool any suckers that fall for the PR stunt...

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Originally Posted by Vic01

Could Duggan have offered to help stall/roadblock the progress of the downriver bridge project? Block or delay land acquisitions?

Matty isn't just giving $$$ away, or doing a good deed to be "nice"... I'm speaking strictly of the land and park deal here.
The windows are BS, after letting the bldg rot for decades he's willing to put a new facade on it to fool any suckers that fall for the PR stunt...

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Of course he's not doing it to be nice. He's doing it to get land to build a bridge that he believes will get built no matter how hard he tries despite Canada being firmly against it.

After reading all the details on this deal and thinking about it, I actually think this is going to turn out to be a fantastic deal for the city. They basically traded 2 acres of land to a company that literally has a 0.000001% chance of ever getting a new bridge built for $5 million bucks, a huge upgraded park and additional Riverwalk access, plus windows for the MCS [[which at this point will almost be completely sealed off from the elements in preperation for a potential rehab).

Yea, they got a key piece of property they need to build a twin span, but that doesn't mean anything when you don't have the land on the other side, will never get the proper permits to construct the span, and have the other country's federal and local government fighting you tooth and nail. Good luck on that.

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Originally Posted by mikeg19

plus windows for the MCS [[which at this point will almost be completely sealed off from the elements in preparation for a potential rehab).

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Yea but Mike the building has been empty for forever! It doesn't matter what they do, its ruined for good. What good does sealing up the building do? There is no such thing as old building rehabs in Detroit, especially in that scary Corktown area. Let's focus on the past ok?:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by mikeg19

After reading all the details on this deal and thinking about it, I actually think this is going to turn out to be a fantastic deal for the city...

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Call me a cynic... I still say that we'll soon see that there is now an "understanding" that Duggan will help stall/roadblock the progress of the downriver bridge project... Blocking or delaying land acquisitions... That Matty bought another ally to help delay progress on his "competition" getting a bridge built.

We've seen years of delay tactics and buying politicians, for Matty a few million more is chump change to increase any chance of his remaining the only bridge... Any obstruction is worth a few million, within the year we'll see Duggan speaking out publicly against the downriver bridge and saying that Matty is a great partner to progress in Detroit. Bought and paid for... and political BS.

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Originally Posted by Dbest

Yea but Mike the building has been empty for forever! It doesn't matter what they do, its ruined for good. What good does sealing up the building do? There is no such thing as old building rehabs in Detroit, especially in that scary Corktown area. Let's focus on the past ok?:rolleyes:

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I beg to differ. I don't believe that area of Corktown is scary. Yes the MCS makes it scary, but I feel relatively safe over there. And with a potential, and I emphasize potential, rehab of the MCS would eliminate the "scary."

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Originally Posted by downtownguy

...snip...Assuming it was clean back then, and only used for recreational purposes since, how does it get "dirty" again? I can think of one way...

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When you pass regulations and allow the regulatory state to control everything, don't be surprised when the 'powers' use environmental regulations to accomplish their means. After all, the ends justify the means. And if environmental regulation can be used to keep people out of the park, why not use them? After all, we do want you to be safe, you understand?

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Originally Posted by warsaw7

I beg to differ. I don't believe that area of Corktown is scary. Yes the MCS makes it scary, but I feel relatively safe over there. And with a potential, and I emphasize potential, rehab of the MCS would eliminate the "scary."

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Warsaw, I think he was being sarcastic.

Sounds like a great deal to me, assuming that the bridge will not be built - and I doubt its at all feasible since the Canadians are so set on the other bridge.

A lot of folks thought the earlier news about the MCS windows would prove to not be true, but now it seems they will happen. Getting windows in that place, and the continued clean-up of the Packard would do wonders for getting rid of the two most prominent ruin porn picture opportunities.

My sources have told me that part of the deal is that Moroun will be installing four windows per year on the MCS, instead of the original two windows per year.

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Originally Posted by 48307

My sources have told me that part of the deal is that Moroun will be installing four windows per year on the MCS, instead of the original two windows per year.

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Your source must not be the story linked above or they would have told you this:

According to an agreement between the city of Detroit and the Ambassador Bridge Company, all 1,050 windows of the depot will be replaced by December 31, 2015.

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Originally Posted by Dbest

Your source must not be the story linked above or they would have told you this:

According to an agreement between the city of Detroit and the Ambassador Bridge Company, all 1,050 windows of the depot will be replaced by December 31, 2015.

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With Moroun you have to see before you can believe. Sometimes he doesn't honor agreements, has to be sued, and then thrown in jail.

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Originally Posted by 48307

With Moroun you have to see before you can believe. Sometimes he doesn't honor agreements, has to be sued, and then thrown in jail.

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Shut up, Moroun the man! haha :cool:

Never underestimate Matty.

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Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Never underestimate Matty.

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and his ability to buy politicians.

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Originally Posted by Vic01

and his ability to buy politicians.

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...without regard for borders.

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Originally Posted by Vic01

Call me a cynic... I still say that we'll soon see that there is now an "understanding" that Duggan will help stall/roadblock the progress of the downriver bridge project... Blocking or delaying land acquisitions... That Matty bought another ally to help delay progress on his "competition" getting a bridge built.

We've seen years of delay tactics and buying politicians, for Matty a few million more is chump change to increase any chance of his remaining the only bridge... Any obstruction is worth a few million, within the year we'll see Duggan speaking out publicly against the downriver bridge and saying that Matty is a great partner to progress in Detroit. Bought and paid for... and political BS.

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Spotted this new article today-

"If the Moroun family builds a second Ambassador Bridge, the Detroit City Council wants to make sure the city has a chance to generate revenue from its traffic"....

"If and when a bridge is constructed, the city needs to be able to participate in the upside," Councilman Scott Benson said in an interview. To that end, Benson proposed a mechanism to capture property taxes associated with a second Ambassador Bridge. The money would be used to offset air pollution, increased truck traffic and other negative impacts of a new bridge. The mechanism wouldn't necessarily raise more money, but it would direct the property taxes to specific uses rather than going into the city's general fund, Benson said.

The council's planning and economic development committee also wants to set up a work group with the Bridge Company to figure out other ways the city could make money off another bridge. Benson said his idea for the city to get $1 off tolls paid by each car crossing the new bridge was rejected.

The council is expected to attach an addendum that incorporates Benson's property tax capture and the work group to study a second span to the land swap deal Mayor Mike Duggan proposed in April".

"Councilwoman Raquel Castaneda-Lopez, whose district includes the Ambassador Bridge, has a much longer list of proposed changes she wants made to the land swap deal.

Rather than transfer a piece of Riverside Park to the Bridge Company, Castaneda-Lopez suggests the city grant an easement for 100 years, with the city collecting 10% of revenue generated from a second Ambassador Bridge. She also wants the city to become part owner of a second bridge, similar to the public-private partnership that manages the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel. Furthermore, she wants the Bridge Company to enter into a legally binding community benefits agreement that includes requirements for training and hiring Detroiters, environmental mitigation and community investment.

Castaneda-Lopez said now is the time for the council to negotiate benefits from a second Ambassador Bridge".

"For now, it appears Duggan's office is leaving it to the City Council to prepare the city for a potential second Ambassador Bridge".

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2015/07/11/council-bridge-money/29980419/


Folks keep saying that the second span will never be built with Canada supporting only the proposed downriver bridge which is already in the works. Canada has said they will not allow a second span for Matty's bridge. Well, it looks like Matty is both rich enough, and slick enough, to find local politicians willing to say "kick enough $$$ my way and I'll support anything you say".
Common sense makes it clear that if the City becomes "part owner", "getting 10%", or part of the toll for each car crossing Matty's bridge, the City will have a vested interest in delaying/blocking the already approved crossing two miles further downriver. The mayor and city council will then start generating as many obstructions as possible to progress downriver, while talking up what a great thing for the city Matty's second span would be...
In the meantime Matty will be buying higher ranking politicians to stall/block, and generate more public favor and eventually make a way for our government to pressure Canada to let him have his bridge.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vic01

The council's planning and economic development committee also wants to set up a work group with the Bridge Company to figure out other ways the city could make money off another bridge. Benson said his idea for the city to get $1 off tolls paid by each car crossing the new bridge was rejected.

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I wonder if Benson and the City Council realize the majority of traffic accross the Ambassador is commerce. Those trucks pay $100 toll, each way. A buck seems a bit light. Also, if you're going to partner, you assume some liabilities. I hope they have good attorneys to look things over before they sign on the dotted line.