Spraying Pests from the Nest

First off, DY was the first forum I ever joined after cautiously prowling around the outskirts of it intermittently for years prior [[I also adamantly avoided the internet for many years-not out of ignorance, but out of a very valid wariness towards it, that still pops up in little ways to remind me to stay cautious). Once engaged in the manner of things here, I have learned a lot.

It amazes me how successful it happens to be, while some cities lack such forum sites. Yet, when I walk around the Jazzfest and then log in and compare here the locations of where some posters claim they post from, I'm a bit saddened to reckon that the clientele I see at the Jazzfest [[whose opinions I would value greatly) are not being represented more so on the forum.

Also, it is my understanding that some great rift occurred [[a "purge" they called it back between 2004-2006) a time back, and it caused the creation of the "other site", which seems to be inhabited with folks filled with a lot of obsessive bitterness that causes them to define themselves only by how much they hate this site and how much they can stalk and scrutinize many of the posters here.

It's a given that there are disingenuous posters on DY [[as I can provide links regarding the growing phenomenon of distrust among many folks becoming disillusioned with the internet-but I will wait...). They are poes, astroturfers, trolls, sock puppets, etc. Some former personaes even claimed that some posters went as far as to track them down outside of DY to harass them.

The issue is: does anyone have any thoughts or observations on this topic not touched upon much? I can understand how some may've wanted to "move on" from the rift or "purge' or whatever, and I'm sure many would rather disregard posters who don't mean a spit to them. Yet, what I'd like to know is are there any points other veteran posters can make [[because I certainly have more observations to add regarding this) on how they spot a disingenuous poster, mark them, and handle the situation other than simply ignoring them.

Sounds like a strained and all too unwieldly a topic to tackle, but it's something that concerns me, and I would like to believe someone else has similar concerns they've been meaning to bring up about it, as well.

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Originally Posted by G-DDT

... how they spot a disingenuous poster, mark them, and handle the situation other than simply ignoring them....

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Help others instead. Collaborate. That is a most effective countermeasure.

Never allow too-abundant negative obstruction to distract you from scarce, precious positive collaboration.

Persevere. Relentlessly.

I'm on this kick with the political ramblings going on all around us, how to counteract the negative nuttiness. It seems to me over the many campaigns and administrations I have observed, the more something is said and reported and repeated and reported and reacted to and discussed, the closer and closer it gets to reality. How to push back and get other views and balance into the discussion is a serious need.

If you watch normal internet performance with negative stinkbomb posters, people will try to counteract the stinkbomb, but are eventually defeated by the fight as the original discussion is hijacked by the fight. Score for the troll! Nobody cares about the original discussion anymore. Another issue is sidelined and negativity wins the day.

Aside from the fact that I notice members on the other site rip this one and constantly make grotesque overtures of using various "personaes" to infiltrate this one, there are a few things about DY that just doesn't add up:

1.) Why would Detroit, the epitome of Plutonian "horror", violence, struggle, and "failure" [[despite Fr. Gabriel Richrad's "“We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes” quote) be so fortunate [[like Rochester, NY, another struggling Canadian border rustbelt city) to have so many forum sites? I tried to retrace my steps with cities I visited, and some cities don't have developed sites [[I think Louisville just has a U of L sports forum site) like Detroit. Are we lucky, or is some entity rather concerned in the interests and feelings expressed from such a fringe location/Petri dish?

2.) Why are most of the posters not from Wayne county?

It was my hope with starting this thread two months ago that some light would be shed not just on the genuineness of DY but of the internet in it's entirety. I'm not one to waste my time with the amusing game of knowing no one is genuine online, therefor, "let's all see how ridiculous we can talk sh*t with each other". If that be the case, I will be more than willing [[even if I do have some unresolved topics on other threads here to address) to dispense with the internet altogether as it has failed me [[and no, it is not a "sacred science" where if anyone has failed, it is the individual) on so many aspects [[crucial information, acquiring a vehicle, jobs, etc.). I already own no phone and have no Facebook profile, so, I can easily go back to where I was five years ago when I treated the internet [[no, not due to any ignorance to technology-I was raised on the bastardly things, taking courses all through school and all.) like it was an anathemic toxin. For many [[especially those on the other site and those here fed up with my posts) this would seem to be a plus.

I listed a few traits that give away those less than genuine posters on DY. Though none of these are wholly indicative, they do make fair guidelines to go by:

1.) Offering a zealous defense for an institution, the media, or faceless corporations that most folks would be hard-pressed to uphold-even to the point of personally attacking those critical of such institutions. They themselves may accuse dissenters as being "trolls" offering FUD, but they are no different than the suspicious reviewers who appear on Amazon to say "Wow! this product is so keen! There is simply nothing like it! It saved time, balanced my budget, rescued my marriage, reunited me with my estranged father, cured me of my lumbago, and the aerodynamic applicator with thirst pockets and Retsin really hit those hard to reach spots."

2.) Being irrationally contentious [[almost to the point of being personal) on an issue with no evidence to back up their POV. This may not always prove revelatory to disingenuous personaes [[as some folks may be more driven by an initial justified emotional reaction during a bad time with no handy information or recollection of their sources to back up and validate their feelings), yet, it is often the manner of those who just want to be blindly argumentative.

3.) Exhibiting similar language to other "different" personaes on DY [[like using such blanket catchphrases as "that post is irrelevant" or "so, this person likes to be a part of the problem"-the latter statement having also popped up from certain personaes "Sharking" on the "other site". Which brings me to....).

4.) Exhibiting similar language to those individuals on the "other site".

5.) Similar repetitive targeting of individuals by certain "different" personaes. A person on DY can express a certain POV only to have three "different" personaes jump down their back, when they all may very well be coming from the same spiteful or sociopathic individual. It's also an unsavory thing to be stalked from thread to thread by those same personaes be it about the same topic or not.

I've noticed that two certain personaes only seem to pop up and argue with each other with extreme dichotomy [[like some Punch and Judy show) when a certain issue comes up-maybe to clog the thread, sway folk's views, or disgust others from posting. Either way, one can't help but feel you're being yanked around in an ugly fashion by this pitiful act [[I saw something similar occur many years ago at a certain famous suburban New Age bookstore. The pantomimes, mannerisms, and over all acting of the agitator and the staff reacting seemed poor, forced, clunky, and scripted. For what? To earn my sympathy for the store? To sway me somehow? It just seemed obvious and weird.).

I may not get along with the views of other posters, but I have no intention to stalk them from thread to thread to mercilessly harass them [[or worse, use all available resources outside of DY to make their lives hell-even if I do have some friends-who may remain anonymous)-and there is always the possibility some may pleasantly surprise me at times with what they have to say.

6.) Does not seem to give props to the individuals on DY. They are also suspiciously absent when condolences are given to those members who've passed. They may be able to bust out random little facts or "individual stories" [[past or present) regarding Detroit that could be found anywhere online or in a library, but while many other genuine individuals may do their best to reprove, warn, help, inspire, or encourage the greater community, these personaes really have nothing to benefit the Detroit community in their interactions with others on DY.

7.) Strangely go uncriticized on the "other site". Seeing as the other site is open to the public, I've scoped around. Everyone from Jimaz, Gannon, Jjaba [[why Jjaba?), ihearthed, the late Sumas and Django [[especially those two-they were strong objects of attack by the fudge-ites), even Gistok [[guess they don't like LEGOs-and if I'm not mistaken, they made references to his first name-which was not publicly available and hints at some creepy stalker action going on there) have been blasted by them like it were some dumb celebrity roast.

Oddly enough, only one of my earlier posts [[and a very discreditable one at that regarding my visit to a lame "nitrous party" turned ugly.) got exhibited by one of the [[female?-a Don Knott's fanatic perhaps?) posters there [[I'd think they would've dedicated an entire sitelink for members to come and tear me apart-but, hey! I'm just not that important. Oh, well.). What's not being said is more important; so, by deduction, if a prominent DY poster [[even if they got "Detroit" in their name) squeaks by unscathed, one has to wonder.

http://marxbrothers-ducksoup.tumblr....-flit-gun-from

My strategy on sites such as this is to keep myself from responding to the "negative nellies" or those who it is obvious are simply trying to start a fight. I keep my responses positive, admittedly I don't respond to a lot of threads, however.

If I do respond to something it is usually based on some fact or history of my life. If someone has a problem with what I say, it's their problem, not mine, so I just let it go. A very wise friend of mine taught me this many years ago. Most people trying to start a fight will go away if you just don't respond to them. Thanks, Gene, for teaching a very young and naive "right-fighter" another way of handling disputes!

I hear about that "other site" when I first found DetroitYes. I looked at it once, and decided it was not a place I wanted to visit again.

Great Manifesto.

I will print it out and distribute it the old fashioned way, with paper, everywhere.

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Originally Posted by Bigb23

Great Manifesto.

I will print it out and distribute it the old fashioned way, with paper, everywhere.

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Whatever your feelings or intentions for redistributing it seem unclear to me. Yet, I do not like it to be mislabeled as a "manifesto". I'm sure the same would be the case with anyone filing a grievance report or Orwell writing dissertations or essays on proper usage of English [[which is interesting to point to seeing as it the very altering of language that is the beginnings of any growing conspiracy-as Orwell pointed out in "1984"-be it by abbreviating it or euphemizing it, or finding inappropriate word equivalents to exaggerate an issue-like referring a collection of Black youths as a "gang", where a collection of White youths would be a "group",-or how it was "looting" by Katrina refugees who were black and "acquiring of supplies" by white refugees-the same goes for Chechnyans/Ukranians who "decapitate" Russian soldiers and their family members in the '90s, while anything done post-9/11 in the Middle East is "beheading" and so on...) would rather not like to see them mislabeled as manifestos.

All I am providing is an outline detailing observations I can't overlook regarding a site that need not decline into one big sh*t-talking Chan ordeal. My laundrylist fashion of laying it out is signature to me and typical to a large collection of other points on some given topics I can address. That is how I weigh, balance, and temper issues; I'm not one to be easily swayed by just one example.

I also must throw out the few, random things that challenge the very popular, elephantine hype machine that stacks a wobbly house of cards that we are supposed to depend on as being a reliable source of accurate information. Therefor, I do my best to collect data on both sides and see which weighs out more [[if I wanted to slate Republicans as all being Nazis-I can site Wallace and David Duke as fine examples-not to mention that since the 20th century at any given region white supremacy has been attached to the far right-like the National Front in France which will be gaining much more credibility in light of recent events, as NBC even mentioned they uphold white supremacist, xenophobic values-Yet, that would be wrong, as my conscience would not allow me that without fairly mentioning Robert Byrd, as well.) and leave room for the oft overlooked viewpoint. It involves critical comparatives and detecting the severe points that stand out or demand more priority.

Not that I got it down to an exact science. Ffft.

Bill Burr was on Conan two years attacking EDM [[not to be confused with the old school D.J.'s who really put effort into their work). Yet, what he assesses about those on the internet, I-I have to agree with it:
http://teamcoco.com/video/bill-burr-...nline-are-evil
If there is anyone who can renew any hope I have for Massachusetts, It would be this guy [[and Conan, from Brookline, of course).

While I welcome the questioning of the relevancy of a post or thread recounting an incident [[with responsible explanations coming from the questioner as to why that is irrelevant-not just callously stating "this is irrelevant"), it galls me, that when one goes into some detail about an incident they experienced, some folks feel they have to question the legitimacy of the situation as in this thread about photography http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...%2C+photographor this one that angered me, because some random come-and-go "personality" had the gall to flatly accuse Marsha [[from post #28 2nd page) of her personal account as being a falsehood.http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...highlight=saks

It's no surprise to many that corporations will pad many products while taking down the products of the competition [[this being the most basic how-tohttp://www.wikihow.com/Spot-a-Fake-Review-on-Amazon); the most transparent being for products coming from pyramid schemes and multi-level marketing companies closely affiliated with conservative politics [["Wow! This product is so amazing! I had nothing better to do but get dinner and the kids going to bed out of the way just so I can jump on line and gush about how life changing this one product really is!").

It gets worse when you got more and more corporations showing an intense stranglehold on the Internet by congesting search engines with B.S. reports that discredit health problems coming from products they handle [[ie. MSG, sugar and the threat of hypoglycemia, bad pharmaceuticals, etc.). http://naturalsociety.com/monsanto-e...it-scientists/Such a hostile disregard to the health of the consumer proves corporations are faceless, inhuman things that need to be kept in check by an informed public that has more of an active grassroots momentum going for it [[like the ones as far back as the '80s had).

One better believe they are using those thousands of dollars they have to invest in disseminating and pushing false information with phony research groups and other media sources [[good luck finding the Food Network giving accurate information actually being critical of "food". They don't have health shows, they give butterballs like Guy and Paula the spotlight, and then they got the gall to stick Queer eye fops up there to "investigate" foods and squash dissent-yeah, show us a researcher with no background as to where he is from and who he now works for with a phony contrived blind taste-test-like some hokey car commercial- just to discredit genuine concerns about MSG. How unprofessional! Just another sh*t channel in cable's wasteland of "History" and "Learning" tripe.).

The same goes for disregard to environment, as more and more proof that oil spillage, frakking, and global warming are being hushed. I still remember how I came across a 1987 Detroit News article by a reporter reviewing a book on the dangerous effects of asbestos [[a topic no one would dare question today, as it is accepted as common knowledge). He criticized the author, he dismissed the health concerns, and he [[this is the big one) insisted there is no reason why corporations and businesses should have to invest in revamping their infrastructures to safely remove asbestos for the safety of their workers and the surrounding environment. I use that as model for how concerns for global warming [[and the unstable seesaw effect that ensues with it) are often discredited and how they will be viewed down the line once it becomes common knowledge [[saw a book at a library sale shelf that attempted to make global warming out to be a natural process the world goes through-the accolades given on the back are sadly hilarious-one of which coming from someone from Arizona State University-yeah, not very prestigious and selective a bunch of academics there, eh?).

http://www.voanews.com/content/distr...e/1886395.html

Part of my contention with product pumping/sabotaging was how my brother [[who frequented the Hooch/Proving Ground-yeah, the one's on "Bar Rescue") showed me the hideous onslaught of comments that appeared on the Proving Ground Facebook site. They all came from grotesque idiots [[oddly enough, a lot of them were automobile-enthusiast self-professed homosexuals-the rest were all illiterate morons with handheld selfie shots of themselves in their cars-as if that's the only place they live, eat, and sleep out of-on their Facebook account) who ALL were from other states who saw the show and claimed that they "stopped there once" [[yeah, when out-of-state folks come to Detroit they just can't wait to go to some obscure dink dive bar in Taylor-not the average Irish pub down the way-with their family to eat and drink? Right?!) with a large group of family and friends [[it is not set-up for huge gatherings), ordered things [[that are not on the menu), and make up hideously gross comments about their "experiences" [[usually involving Chandra-who my brother will attest is almost never there) they had.

It just became this plague of trending cruelness from folks with no life. A sort of reverse Bill Bransky roast, but as much as these folks thought themselves clever, they were far from it-no matter how detailed and gross they were in their comments. All they saw was "Detroit" and how the episode garishly played out in caricature and took that to be the fuel and target [[and the permission to be sick) for their misplaced angst in life. An effigy to throw rocks at.

It got so overloaded, that the Facebook account had to be shutdown quickly and will probably remain like that until the place gets sold or the particular episode stops playing in syndication and the gnat-like attentions spans of the mouth-breathers who chimed in like they did eventually peter out.

By the way, there are those who said Bar Rescue also hurt a popular dive in Ann Arbor. http://www.yelp.com/biz/the-arena-ann-arbor-2Sometimes holding a magnifying glass over the "ants" to see how you can improve their life, only makes things worse.

When one stops to think about it, before we, as a country, even entered the 20th century, law enforcement agencies were tapping telephone lines. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_tapping#HistoryCan we be so blind as to assume provisions weren't being taken to secure every dimension of the "web world" as it became more increasingly widespread?

Even as far back as I was a teenager listening to Pink Floyd [[having not yet engaged in any psychedelic chemicals) I had visions in my head of Dungeons & Dragons type characters roaming through a maze of circuit boards while a Minotaur stalked them. Chincy? Yes. However, I can't help but deem the internet as just that: a Minoan maze many traverse with some kind of engine like always stalking them. More over, It could be a maze that had raised platforms for it's creator to gaze down upon and scope out the full lay-out and the activities transpiring therein.

When history is studied well enough, one sees that control-the very concept of complete control-is what was the grail of aspiration for the powers that be. We can never be so ignorant as to assume otherwise. One would also be wise to consider the precedence that was created by Cointelpro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPROand whether that would still be active and applied in any form with disruptive and infiltrative elements that appear on every internet forum or website, subverting matters of nutrition, politics, community matters, media coverage, etc. Even if not done on a government level, the way money is thrown about and secretly invested into different avenues-with the security, promotions, and very measures to commit industrial sabotage, etc.- many huge corporations, political movements, and think tanks can easily employ the same hideous tactics. It would be rather easy to employ a small cadre to juggle personas and insinuate themselves into a website and establish themselves even as a time-honored presence.

Once all aspects of genetics [[and genetic destiny), behavioral control [[be it through propaganda, Skinner-based consumer control, peer pressure, or straight of chemical/technological induction), and civil aspects [[where we are sluiced into getting medical care, where we live, the groups we fall into, the products and companies we support, etc.)are firmly locked down, the last frontier to conquer is the spirit. To break one's spirit with stringing along with false hope or constant torment [[things Bruno Bettelheim often wrote about with the recollections of his travails in a Concentration Camp-not that he became all that stable himself in time.) and betrayal is one way to accomplish this. Another way, is to subvert and co-opt every person's deep spiritual beliefs and supplant them with a system that sounds academic and feels devoted and right and may even be half right but is twisted and shifted off by a notch or two in the most crucial areas. Sometimes the worst discordant [[as any one slightly versed in music will tell you) tone intervals are the ones that are closest to each other and not so much those that have a distant "perfect fifth or fourth interval" from each other [[check up intervals online and test it out on a keyboard). That is why I am more inclined to hunt after the heresies I find in certain Evangelical areas [[like dispensationalism)-that is to purge the enemy within your midst-than I would ever by going after the differences found in something like the Muslim faith or Asian philosophies.

One thing I'd like to add to post #6, aside from the recent influx of personas lately on DY during the election momentum who are either a.)not from Detroit, b.) have generic profiles [[yeah, we all like the DIA and "going to the train station"), or are new or very infrequent posters who haven't posted for over two years, and then suddenly surface to throw a nasty personal attack at someone without objectively explaining what set them off, I will notice that there are a lot of DY members who oddly enough don't have their ear to the ground in regards to many of the arts events, cultural personalities profiled around the Detroit area, or regard many local news broadcasts. It seems if it is an article pertaining to sports, cars, economics, infrastructures, or city planning that may be very objective and readily accessible information, than these topics are touched upon. It's one thing to be a "Detroit" personality on DY with no recollection of experiences to share about their own personal past in visiting or growing up in Detroit [[though hat does pose a bit of a red flag), yet, certain intricate details revealed in broadcast media just seem to be facts these more objective posters are unaware of. Not just crime reports or who is who of corrupt circles in high powers, but anything from charity events, art events, and any other development seem lacking with a large portion folks who can site information from many basic objective media sources, but when it comes to local vigilance of our own media sources [[sad and unreliable as any corporatel-owned media source may be), I just don't see enough of that awareness from many "personas" on DY, strangely enough.

When one has those kind of feelers out there, you can kind of pick up on who is just as much in the know.

Than again, if there is a massive mistrust of any media piped into one's domicile, I can sympathize.

We no longer live in an age where TV guides and printed scheduling of programming is readily available. This makes folks trust that the programming or information they get by internet or satellite or whatever means is as consistent and as objective as the same programming that someone the next block over gets. It's one thing to have an obvious time delay between DirecTV and an HD signal-interpreter antenna [[with different programming available), but what if you are not getting the same show as a person with the same provider? ...Bear with me it's a wild theory, but just as our lives become more sectioned off, isolated, and compartmentalized [[much like the cubicles at work, or better still, how social media and the internet is actually making folks more homebodies than outgoing social types), how can we trust what is fed to us media-wise [[barring radio, of course)? It would involve hacking to the extreme [[or at least programming options-we are unaware of-as a power wielded in high places), but even as I write this, I'm looking online and seeing a number of articles about hacking into one's TV signal, satellite signal, etc., and if not for the very least, to spy on someone to get an idea of their viewing habits. It would also be akin to the fantasies of films like "The Game" [[ugh), "Amelie" [[Ugh), the Ocean's films, and a whole bunch of spy and "what is reality" films [[one of such escapes me, but it is a fine example).

If-if-IF I were an entity that wanted to toy with someone I could get a peg on someone'e viewing habits. If I had the technology to pipe even the slightest suggestions [[as brought up by everyone from the Fortean Times to guys on DY) into someone's sleeping skull, I could create a bias or an inclination in them to think about some random out of the usual thing to pop into their head and stand out [[like Donald Duck and a feeling to sit down and watch TV at 6 in the evening), then I could cause a plumbing back-up to occur in the morning that would require a plunger. When 6p. rolls around, if I wasn't already aware of any objective broadcasts coming, I could hack in and create my own broadcast, so that when they turn on the TV, they see Donald Duck struggling with a dang plungerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XshFNMiKZI0.

Which all sounds a lot like the "shrimp, plate, or plate of shrimp" discussion made in the car yard in the film "Repo Man"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ToUAkEF_d4, and seems more sinister like Philip K. Dick and less innocuous than the discussions of coincidental events made by the Subgenius or Arthur Koestler [[or the precog. dreamwork of J.W. Dunne).

This all could create bafflement, a feeling of creepy and overwhelming solipsism, or a delusionary trust in one's own "precognition" that they "have" [[at that point, one could then feed them any crazy series of foreboding events that stall up or route there life someway or even turn them into some crazed cult leader); either way, they'd seriously be questioning what is "reality" as more and more uncanny coincidences and serendipities start escalating. Why, hacking in the right media of someone susceptible enough could play up one's fears enough to think that some hopeless terrorist event or political trend involving Obama or Trump is formidable and the only way out is to take up arms and start shooting. There was an Avengers episode called "Death's Door" involving trance drugs and recreating De Ja Vu from one's one inseminated nightmares to make them feel as if things were leading up to a catastrophic event [[thus, preventing the signing of a Peace Treaty). Heck, there was even a MASH episode that had Hawkeye thinking he was the last one to avoid by all extremes of get pranked by his roommate as he "watched" everyone else get it [[which later became the similar plot to a stupid Robert Anton Wilson book).

Once again, all fantasy and speculation, but it would be creepy to think of a time down the line where every automated aspect of one's life [[your credit, your internet, the very thermostat on your house) is toyed with by sources you may not perceive or prevent in their devious endeavors

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Originally Posted by G-DDT

It would also be akin to the fantasies of films like "The Game" [[ugh), "Amelie" [[Ugh), the Ocean's films, and a whole bunch of spy and "what is reality" films [[one of such escapes me, but it is a fine example).

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Ah, the best example was from the first season of the Fargo TV series, which had the Malvo character [[Billy Bob Thornton) systematically harassing Oliver Platt's character with "Biblical plagues" simulated by cleverly orchestrated hacks into his personal life [[even switching his meds with Adderall and killing his dog). A tip of the hat to Dr. Phibes made there.