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not a surprise, really
http://www.freep.com/article/2010112...-room-problems
If the reporter or Mr. Henderson are reading please note with regard to the article's closing quote - in Michigan it is illegal to offer restrooms to the public without at least one stall being free of charge. You could follow up on that person's allegation.
I'm a little baffled by the "some even use the restroom to wash their cats" detail. How many homeless people have cats?
And if you're homeless and hungry, how important is it to bathe an animal that, famously, bathes itself every day?
This is classic Detroit. We can't even operate a shiny bus station that we tore down a city block to build. So rather than make it functional, we're just going to change its name so it can keep being shitty. Hey assholes, this isn't GM Bankruptcy restructuring, it's cleaning the toilets at a bus depot - it shouldn't be hard to manage. How about the dispshits on council use their personal staffers who make six figures to clean it? Or can I earmark some of my exorbidant tax dollars for a guy with a mop at the bus depot?
$22.5 million for that pile of garbage. Oh yeah, Gary, you know what is really an insult to Rosa Parks? Detroit City Council for the past 30 years.
So what is with these make-work Clean Downtown guys who will sweep in one spot for 8 hours? What about all the cops at Tigers games? You know, the six officers it requires to get people accross Woodward from the Fox to Comerica Park! We can't possibly redeploy out personnel in a strategic way to restock toilet paper? How about the fatties in the City County building? There's hundreds of them and they could probably do something besides play solitare all day and screw up my property records. A little manual labor would do them good.
Well, we could rename it for the special influence the Kilpatrick family bestowed upon the city. Extraordinaire eau de toilette.
I am still floored that $22.5 mil was put into this thing instead of allocating the funds elsewhere. Ya know, like schools.
I don't get the cat thing, either. Maybe they mean p*ssy. ugh, I hate that word.
I wish there was a way to give people points for the posts I read on this forum.
Just a little clarification for your rant.... the "Clean Downtown" folks are not city employees..and I would guess have no responsibility to clean the DDOT's facility.Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitPole
But really I think your ire is directed at the wrong people. Cops mopping floors? c'mon. How about direct some of that anger to the clear lack of access control? bar the homeless and the crazies from entry, problem solved. apparently all that takes is a metal detector.Quote:
The Clean Downtown team also maintains landscaping in public areas and provides support to many of downtown Detroit’s largest public events, festivals and sporting events.
This privately-funded program is staffed by workers from Goodwill Industries of Greater Detroit who bring pride and enthusiasm to their jobs of keeping downtown Detroit looking its best.
Quote:
Anthony Kelley, 42, who also is homeless, said the problem will worsen until the city provides better options.
"There aren't any places to go to the bathroom," Kelley said. "Some places charge money. We can't afford that."
and Detroit can't afford to clean up after you. Go to a shelter. Get out of downtown. Get treatment. Work for Goodwill industries.
You can't deny someone access to a public facility.Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
How many stalls does the men's or women's restroom have? Please don't tell me their's only one or two for a facility that handles more people than a highway rest area.
you can make them go through security. per that article that is keeping them out of CAYMACQuote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed
Yes, this will be many times cheaper than paying to actually keep the place clean.Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
Now laughing at last year's argument with Hudinka, who made fun of me for not liking the design of the transit center. Hud had said: "Afterall, would you rather wait for a bus in a dark, noisy, smelly, polluted garage or a light, open, breezy plaza"
I mean cops there for public safety, what with all the drug slinging and other mischief.Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
I'm just trying to illustrate that in a city where an incalculable amount of money is squandered or lost to corruption, and a city of 900,000 tax-payers, that there IS, not should be, money somewhere to pay a guy with a mop and a rent-a-cop at a brand new multi-million dollar transit facility.
How do you bar the homeless who ride the buses? What about the resident bus riders or general public who may outwardly seem homeless[[i.e. stinky, weird, shabby - ever ride DDOT? That's a lot of people)? How do we selectively bar people from a public restroom[[which is illegal)? A metal detector does not detect crazy or someone who is going to poop on the walls or homelessness, by the way - it detects metal. It seems your plan is one that needs clarification.
Don't be fooled. Clean Downtown is funded by Detroit taxpayers.
well, per the article, Mr homelessguy seems to be saying that the metal detectors and security make it a hassle to use the restrooms at CAYMAC, so they don't . They go to the bus station where there is no one there to bother them. make it a bit more difficult to get in and you've eliminated part of the problem at least.Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitPole
Head on over to the thread on the Corktown beating/dragging case to see some of the effects of barring the homeless from bathroom facilities. It sounds like a fair number of problems would be solved if the soup kitchen over there kept the potties open all day. Everybody poops--even the homeless and crazy. If you don't give them a flushable place to do it, they'll find someplace else. I'm with DetroitPole: the solution is to get someone to clean the things regularly.Quote:
bar the homeless and the crazies from entry, problem solved
But the security at CAYMC serves a function, since both the mayor's office and the city council member offices are in the building. Why not just pay someone to clean the bathrooms?Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
Homeless people using restrooms in train and bus stations are a non-issue as far as I'm concerned. I haven't used a train or bus station in a major city yet where that practice wasn't the norm.
In Royal Oak At the SMART Transit Center. They put quarters boxes in both Male and Female restrooms. That would keep the problems down.
Is it possible for the city to setup some Port-a-Johns so that these bums can have a place to take a shit and not funk up the bus station? Set up some portables by some of the abandoned buildings and tell the homeless to go there.
Put a babuszka lady in each bathroom who is responsible for its cleaning, and charge a nominal fee to use the commode. Problem solved.
Some of those old Polish ladies are pretty strict! I'd be on my best behavior.
I'm just sayin that if it works in the pit-of-hell that is Warszawa Centralna railway station, it'll sure as hell work in Detroit's little bus terminal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Detroitnerd
Pit-of-hell is right. However I'd rather travel out of there than the Rosa Parks Transit center any day. Says a lot really...a former-Soviet bloc country with an antiquated train station and faltering economy can operate a transit center and Detroit can't...guess Detroit really is Third World, if the Second World has it beat.Quote:
Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto
I think I remember there being either 2 or 3 stalls in the men's bathroom.Quote:
Originally Posted by Russix
If you charged 25 cents to use the stall, you would simply have people back behind the Farwell shitting & pissing all over.
What about this:
http://europeforvisitors.com/paris/a...ic-toilets.htmQuote:
Not so many decades ago, the phrase "Paris public toilets" evoked images of smelly streetcorner pissoirs, hole-in-the-floor squat toilets at neighborhood cafés, and lavatories ruled by female attendants with the demeanor of prison guards. Today, nearly all of the vespasiennes or pissoirs are gone, and tourists of both sexes are well-served by modern, self-cleaning toilets known as sanisettes on boulevards and in parks throughout the city.
The sanisettes come in several styles, but all have the same basic design: You press a button [[or, in some cases, insert a coin) to open the door, and when you step inside, a sensor in the floor causes the door to close and lock. You do your business, then open the door and exit. The door closes again, the toilet is automatically cleaned and disinfected by a motorized mechanism, and a green light signals that the lavatory is ready for the next user.
Yes it would cost upfront, but think of the savings in the long run. Who says America has the best standard of living in the world?
Many of the rest rooms in Ireland do this. You have to pay someone stationed at the door to enter.Quote:
Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto
I think a homeless charity or similar program could easily provide Port-a-Johns at some of the most commonly frequented hangouts, if the city allows it. It's done during summer months at one of the main places in Ann Arbor.
And again, unless the law has recently changed, if any public restrooms are made available at least one stall has to be free of charge. [[How distinctly I remember this from Hudson's and their dime stalls).
Ditto. Do you want to see the homeless relieving themselves in public -- many don't even try to hide in an alley and do it. It's bad enough downtown, I can't imagine putting up with it in the neighborhoods like Corktown.Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthofNormal
Or Detroit can do what NYC did and just close off all bathrooms downtown except for one. You can't use store bathrooms unless you buy something there unless it is a chain store and those bathrooms have waiting lines and are in the same condition as the bus station. And banks unless you are a large depositor.,... haha!
I've seen a man in a expensive suite take a leak in a corner of the Fuse building on 7th Ave midday....... forget New Years Eve.
is there possibly a nonprofit outfit that can take over management of the facility.. what homeless shelters are downtown?
The real problem seems to pretty clearly be not enough restrooms. Not a couple of restrooms too many.
Given the kind of use these sorts if public facilities normally get no matter what city they're in, and Detroit's homeless and destitute population, you think someone might have anticipated this problem somewhere along the way in the design, construction and operation of the place.
It also sounds like there may be some deficiencies in the city contractor's plumbing [[imagine that!) if those toilets keep clogging like that.
the article states that some are pay and others are freeQuote:
Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner
Make the trucks that feed the homeless downtown pull a trailer with port-o-johns to deal with the end result. Or stop feeding the homeless in a downtown you are trying to revitalize and do it somewhere in the other 130+ square miles of city. Or better yet, do it in Troy.
Two design failures then? Not enough bathrooms and not adequate enough to handle the load[[no pun intended). I see no reason why the restrooms at Rosa Parks TC were not built to the same scale as rest areas on the interstate. It should have been fairly obvious that this would become Downtown Detroit's central restroom. I rather the city maintain a large public restroom with my tax dollars then deal with stepping on human feces on the streets or having the unfortunate experience of witnessing someone take a crap in public, again.Quote:
Originally Posted by EastsideAl
Looked for stinky bus station in Google maps, couldnt find it. Who was this Stinky fella they named it for. Couldnt find a mr Stinky to stick it to... I had a few strong beer, I shall retire. Bonne Nuit Detroit.
Why would the answer to the problem be MORE bathrooms? They can't keep what is there from becoming a bio hazard. Regardless of what you'd like them to maintian, they clearly can't manage what they have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Russix
I don't know what to find more sad. That the bus station is the only public restroom in the CBD of a city of 900k, the local populace that used it can't seem to manage to do so without smearing shit on the walls, or the fact that something as simple as providing janitorial services in a 22.5 million dollar brand new bus terminal is outside the ability of DDOT.
Mass transit,light rail,stinky terminal.I am not,repeat not going to use it.They can "piss" away money on "fecalbility" studies all day.Until Detroit gets its collective head out of its third world ass,I'll drive or walk.
It's not at all funny, but I laughed hard reading your post. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by bailey
Damn. I guess the Detroit area will just have to build a system for the 4,999,999 other people who live there.Quote:
Originally Posted by luckycar
Go right ahead.Don't maintain,clean or patrol it and will look like shit a short time.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed
lol warszaw centralia is a sh*thole...but their economy isnt falteringQuote:
Originally Posted by DetroitPole
http://www.economist.com/node/15394158
Because we rather obviously have more people in need of a bathroom than we have bathrooms. We may be able to change the number of bathrooms and the way in which they are maintained, but we absolutely certainly can't change people's need for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
My theory:
In 2006, some crazy homeless person snuck into the movie theatre to see the "Pursuit of Happyness." He watches as Chris Gardner, played by Will Smith, sleeps in the public bathroom only to become a millionaire at the end of the movie. The legend of the Homeless Public Bathroom Living Millionaire spreads through the homeless community, and the homeless throughout the city battle to live in the bus station restrooms.
I say we blame Hollywood and the liberal media...
No, you have a shitload of homeless that need a SHELTER, but instead use the bus station toilets as one. Put in more bathrooms, you'll just have a bigger problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by EastsideAl
Clearly the homeless in the downtown area are a problem and that has been said many times before on this board. Maybe the city should kill two birds with one stone, and no I dont mean kill the homeless. First they should hire some of these homeless people to clean up the bathrooms, that would solve the cleanliness issue and the homeless issue at the same time. In addition we all know that the city has a huge number of vacant buildings that are beyond the state of redemption. Maybe it should hire the homeless to go out and tear down these buildings. If they refuse the offer of work then tell them to take a hike out of the city and threaten them with jail time for public urination or defication and for harassing people when they try to hit them up for money. Yes there are the mentally ill out there and the city and or state should do what is right and take them off the streets and put them in mental institutions where they can provide proper treatment. I understand the idea of forceably removing people from streets is attrocious to some, but is the idea of letting someone wander around downtown screaming at people all that much better? If the city really wants to attract tourists here then it needs to clean up its image and like it or not but the homeless are an image problem. Give them an option for working for minimum wage, or hand them a bus ticket to florida where at least they wont have to worry about freezing to death in the winter.
Bathrooms aren't just a homeless issue. Regular people who spend time downtown need bathrooms too, and there aren't a whole lot of options. I'm far from homeless and I've used the bathrooms in the transit center plenty of times [[although not recently, and the bathrooms were relatively clean when I used them). Rivard Plaza is a decent alternative during the day, although a bit further out of downtown.Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
If your gonna run a public bathroom, it's needs to be large enough to handle the demand, or you run into problems like this. Maintenance is less of an issue over simple capacity planning.Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
I had the 'joy' of riding public transportation this summer while my car was down for extensive repairs requiring moneys applied over a time frame. I was often near that RP station catching a connector DOT... I didn't even consider any public bathroom for safety and hygiene reasons being a woman. I noted a building nearby's adjoining alleyway reeking of urine and what not. And I observed a homeless woman going into an alley behind the station for purposes of toileting... it was a bit much. Not sure what the answer is, but I'd not use any public bathroom in downtown as presented now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khartoum
I think she means that they are on the clock from 7:30 a.m. to 11:30 p.m.Quote:
Lovevett Williams, director of the city Department of Transportation, said cleaning crews work from 7:30 a.m. to 11:30 p.m.
There is no way that anyone is cleaning the place for that period of time.
They might actually clean once per eight hour shift for ten or fifteen minutes.
I'm not defending the city here, but why would anyone expect a bathroom at a bus station to be much above one at a smelly gas station or motorway truck stop?
A teacher told this story once. He taught at a local community college. The assignment was to write a daily log. A kid wrote that he bought a "shit" in Hamtramck for a buck. The teacher wrote in the margin, it's only a dime at the Greyhound. The kid didn't get the joke.
I had posted on this site last year that this was going to happen. You can't control the type of people who goes into those restrooms. The homeless could be the one who leaves the restrooms tidy and people who are just passing through catching the bus or other people could be the ones clogging the toilets. I had thought that it was a bad idea to construct that type of terminal anyway knowing that the crowd that hung around Capital Park would migrated at the terminal.Unless there is a master plan for the terminal such as regional busses pulling out of there. I could see regional money being used for security and upkeep. I had thought that the new terminal should had been similar to the one built at Cadillac Square in 1985; an enclosed area with heated lights in the ceiling above.Was that terminal torn down to make room for Campus Martius? I don't know why the Kilpatricks had chosen that area to build the transit center and did the city planners not think that there would be a problem of vagrancy, drug dealing, neglected restrooms, and a falling economy before the terminal was constructed?