Will there for Civil unrest if the U.S. goes into a Debt Ceiling default?

Here we go again! Our broken U.S of A Government is almost running of money and time. They have to October 17th to raise the debt ceiling or face default.

If national credit default happens the nightmare begins November 1st 2013.

1. Social Security checks will STOP.

2. Food Stamps, WIC, welfare checks, Medicare, Medicaid even Obamacare will STOP.

3. Our global economy will CRASH! Billions of people will lose their jobs [[This would lead another Great Depression).

4. All national parks will CLOSE!

5. Our US Armed Forces will not receive benefits. [[This could lead to possible Coup d'tat!)

6. The Communist Chinese government [[ One of the biggest creditors) will demand payments plus interests or face possible U.N. financial management or act of war.

7. Other nations will follow suit against the United States.

8. Stock markets will CRASH and BURN.

9. Riots will loom all over the world.

10. OPEC will longer accept the U.S. dollar, only foreign dollars, gold, silver and other precious metals and national values.

11. All world trade goods will not accept U.S. dollars. Free World Trade markets will CLOSE. Cutting imports and exports of goods and services. All products will be very expensive.

12. If World War III persists, a possible nuclear war will follow resulting a 75% of life of Earth will perish.

13. During this MAD MAX [[ post-apocalyptic) era religion, wisdom, freedom don't mean nothing to mankind. Only fear, pestilence, tribal race hating and survival is law. Love will be social construct meant to be earned out of respect. Our very global society and civilization will be nothing but stories compare to the Lost City of Atlantis and other empires of the past.

Any thoughts on this matter? Is there way to mend our broken U.S. Government? Or just let it die and bring new leaders. For far is I know. I'm ashamed of this nation. The United States of America is no longer a world power of the Earth. Its a second world nation.

It won't happen. Another eleventh hour sideshow. Unlike the faux government shutdown, this would have dire implications. I'm growing tired of this circus and the clowns we're subjected to deal with. We shouldn't have to participate in this ignorance.

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Originally Posted by old guy

It won't happen. Another eleventh hour sideshow. Unlike the faux government shutdown, this would have dire implications. I'm growing tired of this circus and the clowns we're subjected to deal with. We shouldn't have to participate in this ignorance.

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Michele Bachmann has an interesting take on this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUClW...layer_embedded

No increase in the debt limit is this:
The Government's current level of spending is approved, but an increase in spending [[AKA more borrowing) is not authorized.
Which means - The Government must make budget cuts for the Government to pay it's bills in order to not exceed it's current level of spending. In actuality it means the Government stops borrowing money it can't afford to pay back.

It may be tough on our free spending Government, but it would in effect show the Government is being financially responsible for the first time in 40 years.

I really hope this website spreads like wildfire:

DrunkDialCongress.org

That would be hilarious. ;)

I find the "You jerks are costing the country $12 million bucks an hour!" the most interesting story. What are we doing? There's no logic.

I wrote a newspaper column last week that among other things addressed the fact that according to the United States Mint, it costs almost two and a half cents to manufacture a penny. It costs over eleven cents to manufacture a nickel. The only arguments I’ve ever heard in defense of this practice are that people are nostalgic about pennies and also that it only costs eleven cents to manufacture a quarter, which helps to offset the cost of the penny and the nickel.
Do you see the logic there? I don’t. If you’re nostalgic about pennies, and I really don’t hear many conversations regarding the importance of pennies, hang on to a box of them and call it a day. Why would a country that’s possibly on the brink of financial disaster waste money to make money? Again, I realize it’s a minute amount of money in the grand scheme of things, but what’s the point?

Oh, and by the way, that tiny drop in the bucket from producing pennies for the year 2012 was a loss of fifty eight million dollars. That was down from 2011 when the loss for manufacturing them was sixty million dollars. That’s one hundred and eighteen million dollars loss to tax payers in just two years. Figure in the loss from manufacturing nickels and it’s about an additional forty million dollars a year.

Again, what's the logic. The government shutdown will probably cost us billions of dollars. Why are we doing these things.

Old guy... to quote the late senator Evertt McKinley Dirksen of IL... "a billion here and a billion there... and pretty soon it adds up to real money!!" :[[

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Originally Posted by Gistok

Old guy... to quote the late senator Evertt McKinley Dirksen of IL... "a billion here and a billion there... and pretty soon it adds up to real money!!" :[[

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That's always been one of my favorite quotes.

Five days until debt ceiling default. Our 112th U.S. Congress still talk the talk and not walk the walk. MAD MAX is coming.

Can't wait for midterm elections next year. I want all republicans out of Congress.

There is no reason for a default. There are three solutions.

1. Reduce government spending. This could begin by, for instance, ending all corporate welfare, bringing a lot of our troops home, and adjusting our foreign policy. It could be followed up with better oversight over government expenditures and ending redundant federal programs and agencies already run by states. I would go a step further and end congressional spending not empowered by the Constitution but that isn't going to happen. Status quo interests would be hurt. They will not allow such a thing to happen.

2. Raise sufficient additional taxes to pay for all existing expenses. Federal expenses exceed federal revenue by about $1T/year so by dividing that up among 120M taxpayers, that works out to about an additional $8,000/year tax increase per family or more if the debt ceiling is increased. Some of this could be hidden in corporate taxes, user fees, etc.. That certainly isn't going to happen as the economy would tank if so much money was transferred from spending to taxation. That and the fear of politicians who didn't want to be lynched.

3. Expand our lines of credit and bill it to our kids. If the interest rate on what the government borrows EVER returns to its average of 5.8%, just paying the interest on the existing debt will equal $7,900/year for the average taxpaying family. Government programs would have to be curtailed. That's for our kids to worry about however. So I think we have a winning solution here that President Obama and status quo Republicans can agree on: screw our kids.

I don't think it will happen. It never should have been raised as a partisan issue, by a minority of zealots, though.
Watched Betty Reid Soskin, 92 year old employee of the National Park Service, make too much sense yesterday. She has worked there since WWII.
The fools who shut her job down should listen to her.
Jackasses.

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Originally Posted by Papasito

No increase in the debt limit is this:
The Government's current level of spending is approved, but an increase in spending [[AKA more borrowing) is not authorized.
Which means - The Government must make budget cuts for the Government to pay it's bills in order to not exceed it's current level of spending. In actuality it means the Government stops borrowing money it can't afford to pay back.

It may be tough on our free spending Government, but it would in effect show the Government is being financially responsible for the first time in 40 years.

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actually, no. The debt limit does have to do with approved spending. It just says we can't borrow more to meet that spending. The largest single increase in budgets is service on the debt and the largest portion of that is defense-related, especially since we are still paying on two unfunded wars. Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security don't even enter the equation as they are not part of the general budget. Social Security is, in fact, one of the largest creditors to the general fund.

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Originally Posted by Danny

Five days until debt ceiling default. Our 112th U.S. Congress still talk the talk and not walk the walk. MAD MAX is coming.

Can't wait for midterm elections next year. I want all republicans out of Congress.

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So a one party system is the answer ? And how would that solve the problem ?

Two and two and a half party system works when it is used responsibly. Minority voices like the Tea Party have valuable ideas to discuss. We have run into problems because discussion is not enough for them, they want to control everything, and even though they do not have the votes to do so, the majority party is allowing them to run the entire Congress by refusing to allow an up or down vote on the clean bill to raise the debt ceiling so we can pay the bills already incurred and reopen the government.

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Originally Posted by gazhekwe

Two and two and a half party system works when it is used responsibly. Minority voices like the Tea Party have valuable ideas to discuss. We have run into problems because discussion is not enough for them, they want to control everything, and even though they do not have the votes to do so, the majority party is allowing them to run the entire Congress by refusing to allow an up or down vote on the clean bill to raise the debt ceiling so we can pay the bills already incurred and reopen the government.

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True...Responsibility is in short supply these days.

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Originally Posted by Bobl

... Watched Betty Reid Soskin, 92 year old employee of the National Park Service, make too much sense yesterday. She has worked there since WWII.
The fools who shut her job down should listen to her....

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Thanks for posting that. Never heard of her. Found some videos. She's brilliant — and at that age too!

• Furloughed 92-year-old park ranger ready to give D.C. a piece of her mind
• 92-year-old Park Ranger Furloughed
• Betty Reid Soskin "We're All in the Fight: African Americans at Work"
• The National WWII Museum

Four days until debt ceiling default. If this happens I want all the people in the State of Michigan to secede from the United States and annex to Dominion of Canada.

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Originally Posted by Danny

Four days until debt ceiling default. If this happens I want all the people in the State of Michigan to secede from the United States and annex to Dominion of Canada.

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That sounds do-able :cool:

Will There For Civil Unrest If The U.S. Goes Into A Debt Ceiling Default?


.... only if Xerox Corporation doesn't stop dicking around with their multi-state Bridge Card computer system on the weekends... :[[

In response to seceding to Canada.....Don't think that will work. Don't think the Canadians want us.

Let's not sugar coat it, kids.
Washington DC is pathetic.

http://i.memeful.com/memes/4wbLQ4R/D...nd-minions.jpg

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Originally Posted by Danny

5. Our US Armed Forces will not receive benefits. [[This could lead to possible Coup d'tat!)

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I am a fan of #5. Kick the post-Constitutionalist bums out of Washington. Democrats and Republicans are both a joke.

We need a new political party in Congress. A socialist party.

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Originally Posted by punky1

In response to seceding to Canada.....Don't think that will work. Don't think the Canadians want us.

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The Canadians would love to have Michigan in their country. We just let the parliament know that the Province of Michigan is part of Canada. I might start a petition a secede Michigan from the union and annex to Canada if Congress don't act to open government and raise the debt ceiling.

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Originally Posted by Danny

We need a new political party in Congress. A socialist party.

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How about a necktie party for all those people ?

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Originally Posted by Danny

The Canadians would love to have Michigan in their country. We just let the parliament know that the Province of Michigan is part of Canada. I might start a petition a secede Michigan from the union and annex to Canada if Congress don't act to open government and raise the debt ceiling.

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do it Danny!

Switzerland is a bunch of commies

https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hpho...64893456_n.jpg

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Originally Posted by Danny

The Canadians would love to have Michigan in their country. We just let the parliament know that the Province of Michigan is part of Canada. I might start a petition a secede Michigan from the union and annex to Canada if Congress don't act to open government and raise the debt ceiling.

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Go for it!! Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

I really don't see a problem with this.
I don't think the White House should have "soundly" rejected it.

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The White House soundly rejected a House plan to avoid default.

The measure would suspend a new tax on medical devices for two years and take away the federal government's health care contributions to lawmakers and top administration officials. It would also fund the government through Jan. 15 and give Treasury the ability to borrow normally through Feb. 7.

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http://news.msn.com/us/house-gop-flo...nate-debt-plan

Well I will get a petition ready to WhiteHouse.gov. to have Michigan secede from United States and join Canada.

Not sure about that Danny, but we sure do need to do some serious thinking about the idiots we have elected in all parties........and get beyond thinking and do something. Enough already. The 16th isn't weeks or months from now. It is now. Washington is making the US look stupid. They need to do something NOW, not at 11:59 pm on the 15th, and not something that is only a 3 month bandage. And the really sad part is the number of people [[Not directed to people reading this forum)....who couldn't tell you what the shutdown was about if they had to. [[Stepping down again from soapbox). Lily

Wait until midtern elections next year. The American People will vote new people into Congress, not those yahoos like John Boenher and John Cantor. They do not PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE for the American People.

In the meantime I will make a petition to free and independent Nation of Michigan from United States. Who's with me?

I hope so Danny, i really hope so. So many people just have this "shrug" attitude [[ again....not here). Things are just not going to get better, we have to make them better, people have to let the politicians know.....from the President, down to local officials....enough...no more games....do what is best for all the people, only small special interest groups, clean it up. Now.

i get can be a bit verbose on this topic..sorry. I just deleted another paragraph listing lots of the "no more" items. Lily

The problem I see, vote new people into congress, who will they be, what will the changes be? All the politicians these days seem to be, well, pretty much in lockstep with the same greedy, self serving, lobbiest supporters that have no priorities for the interests of the American citizens. How do we resolve this?

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Originally Posted by old guy

How do we resolve this?

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We don't. Humans are ungovernable. It's like herding cats.

Someone I know, disabled said his food stamp amount was reduced with a letter informing him that the reason was because of the gov. shut down. Anyone else know of these cases?

1:15PM... the US Senate has passed a bipartisan budget deal... now has to go to the US House...

http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/nationa...an-budget-deal

YAY! the house passed bipartisan budget deal to open government and raise the debt ceiling. THE SHUTDOWN IS OVER!

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Originally Posted by Zacha341

Someone I know, disabled said his food stamp amount was reduced with a letter informing him that the reason was because of the gov. shut down. Anyone else know of these cases?

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My sisters notice said this :'' Effective No.1st , 2013 your Food Assistance Program [[FAP) benefits are decreasing because extra benefits provided by the federal governments American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 , sometimes called the stimulus , have ended . '' She was getting 200 bones a month and now she will be getting 189

^^^ Aha! The Gov. giveth, the Gov. taketh away... that's the way of it!

It's a great pity the Republicans/Tea Party didn't have the balls to force the Government to shutdown, produce a Budget and live within it.
In round figures Detroit's debt of $18 billion which is approx $25,000 debt for every man woman and child; whereas America's debt is $17 trillion which is approx $57,000 for every person. America is Detroit on steroids. Looking at it another way every Detroiter is in debt for $82,000 - but we keep borrowing hoping tomorrow will never come. [[don't know what the State debt would add - probably will push it over the $100k)
PS America is in a far deeper hole than Detroit and yet Detroit is bankrupt.
PPS to Danny. Better find out if you can carry your debts with you to Canada or have to pay them before you cede. Do you know they'll have you?

Coracle, if the rate of interest the federal government pays on its debt even increases to its historical norm of 5.8%, the average US taxpayer will have to pay $8,200 annually just to service the interest on the federal debt which will probably destroy our economy and all those programs RINOs and Democrats are so fond of. Will the interest rate EVER climb back to its historical norm? Probably. We should enjoy this bubble while we can because things will most likely get grim.

There were billions of pork in the Senate bill. McConnell's Kentucky was a prime recepient. Worse, Congress handed over some of its delegated power to the executive branch. Congress allowed the President to raise the debt limit however much he wants. Congress now is required to come up with an impossible 2/3 majority to override the president instead of the constitutionally required simple majority. It was a partial enabling act. I remember when Congress gave Bush its power to decide whether to go to war in Iraq. That mistake left 4,000 Americans dead. Now Congress has given this spendthrift President a blank check. I doubt this will work out much better.

Ah, I see Econ 101 was a bit much for some people.

Here are the largest loaners:
1) Social Security
2) Federal Reserve
3) Veteran disability and retirement
4) Federal employee retirement*
5) China*
6) Japan*
7) US investors*
8) Caribbean banks
9) Oil exporters [[mostly Canada)

*These are all around the 1 Trillion mark. exact rank depends on a number of things including currency fluctuations, counting method, trade deficit. China and Japan combined don't equal Social Security. ALL foreign debt holdings are about equal to Social Security and the Fed. We owe the vast majority of the money TO OURSELVES, which is far different from Detroit's situation.

President Clinton raided Social Security funds and left it with IOUs. I guess you are right that now we owe it to ourselves. We still have to pay back the seniors and federal workers whose money was borrowed. Why should that make us feel better? Before, we didn't owe "ourselves" anything. We still owe $17T and have to pay the interest on it not including the President's new power to raise the debt ceiling almost unchallenged. I did read in one place that it is only until February that the President has this new unconstitutional power.

The Federal Reserve is not "ourselves" though. It is owned by banks.

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Originally Posted by rb336

Ah, I see Econ 101 was a bit much for some people.

Here are the largest loaners:
1) Social Security
2) Federal Reserve
3) Veteran disability and retirement
4) Federal employee retirement*
5) China*
6) Japan*
7) US investors*
8) Caribbean banks
9) Oil exporters [[mostly Canada)

*These are all around the 1 Trillion mark. exact rank depends on a number of things including currency fluctuations, counting method, trade deficit. China and Japan combined don't equal Social Security. ALL foreign debt holdings are about equal to Social Security and the Fed. We owe the vast majority of the money TO OURSELVES, which is far different from Detroit's situation.

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rb336.
See - http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreyd...t-an-increase/ to put some actual figures on the various payments you list. Soc. Sec. is the FICA TAX we pay which is 15% of our Salary. We shouldn't have to borrow this unless our government is giving it to someone else and then having to borrow it from China to pay it back. It is FULLY FUNDED.

The shutdown showdown may be over, but I will put the request for Michigan independence from The United States on hold until the U.S. government fail to raise the debt ceiling on February 7th 2014.

By then I will have hundreds of my supporters.

FREE MICHIGAN!

The Government created it's own problems, the Government shut down, and then they found a way to push their problems off for a few months, and applaud themselves for it. Pathetic.

http://i41.tinypic.com/2lxd0kp.jpg

The federal debt just increased $328B in one day; a new government record. How could this be? Answer: The government just kept spending and cannibalized various accounts to do so. The $328B was mostly used to refill these accounts. Now President Obama even has the power to raise the debt ceiling as high as he wants and the Democratic senate allow him to fund some of his executive orders. Its like the White House version of all those Walmart shoppers filling their shopping carts in Louisiana. The President is probably wondering why China just lowered its US credit rating.

^^^ He should not wonder...

Yep. Kick-the-can-down-the-road politics... and we go along with it. And more is spent:

Default, default again, once more... again... default.

Then finally there's the day of reckoning. It will not be a good time.

PS. Is that photo Photshopped? Or perhaps it could use some Photoshop. Ick!

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Originally Posted by Papasito

The Government created it's own problems, the Government shut down, and then they found a way to push their problems off for a few months, and applaud themselves for it. Pathetic.

http://i41.tinypic.com/2lxd0kp.jpg

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China didn't, their version of S&P did. And it's funny to have China bitch when the only reason their "official" debt is low is because they create corporations that bear the burden of those debts. Add the debts held by Chinese pseudo-corporations and their debt is double ours

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Originally Posted by rb336

China didn't, their version of S&P did. And it's funny to have China bitch when the only reason their "official" debt is low is because they create corporations that bear the burden of those debts. Add the debts held by Chinese pseudo-corporations and their debt is double ours

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I don't think that China bitching so much as stretching its expanding muscles. China now has more millionaires than the US, Chinese tourists are showing up all over the world, China yesterday bought a building in NYC from JP Morgan for $75M, china is making plans to land Chinese on the Moon, China is buying up natural resources all over the world to hand to its children while we turn our children into debt slaves. China has its problems but what we are seeing is not a nation in decline.

This is appropriate although it has been posted before.
http://youtu.be/OTSQozWP-rM

http://o.onionstatic.com/images/23/2...l/700.jpg?0635
Heroic Broken Sewage Pipe Floods Congress With Human Waste

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WASHINGTON—Calling the busted cylinder a national hero, sources confirmed Wednesday that a sewer pipe in the U.S. Capitol building valiantly burst open, pouring more than 1.5 million gallons of raw sewage into Congress and flooding the Senate and House of Representatives with human excrement, sludge, and wastewater. “Someone or something had to step up and fight for the American people, and when I heard that explosion and then saw congressman after congressman get swept up by a massive wave of feces and urine, I knew that sewage pipe had done something truly brave and extraordinary,” said one congressional source, adding the pipe’s heroics were evident from the outset when the initial explosion splattered Sen. Ted Cruz [[R-TX) with wadded-up toilet paper, sanitary napkins, vomit, and cholera-containing pathogens.

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:eek:

Great one Jimaz.

This Photo is Real & has not been altered of a reopened Mt Rushmore.

http://i41.tinypic.com/z9wmf.jpg

Attachment 21772
Sen. Warren on the Shutdown and Why Government Matters

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Senator Warren spoke on the Senate floor on 10/3/13 about the Republican shutdown and why government matters.

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• Full Speech - Sen. Warren on the Shutdown and Why Government Matters

I would vote for Elizabeth Warren for president in a heartbeat

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Originally Posted by Papasito

This Photo is Real & has not been altered of a reopened Mt Rushmore.

http://i41.tinypic.com/z9wmf.jpg

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Got a source for that photo Papa?

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Originally Posted by rb336

I would vote for Elizabeth Warren for president in a heartbeat

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Ditto, Rb..

I occasionally hear some of Elizabeth Warren's rhetoric which I agree with. She rails against bankers for instance. She has written books about how Americans make 30% less after inflation than they did in 1970. But wasn't Elizabeth Warren a big promoter of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau which was supposed to protect us from those evil banks?

"The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau [[CFPB) is an independent federal agency that holds primary responsibility for regulating consumer protection with regard to financial products and services in the United States."

"The bureau is an independent unit located inside and funded by the United States Federal Reserve, with interim affiliation with the U.S. Treasury Department. It writes and enforces rules for financial institutions, examines both bank and non-bank financial institutions, monitors and reports on markets, as well as collects and tracks consumer complaints." -wikipedia

Got that? Elizabeth Warren's idea of protecting us from big evil banks is to create a phony agency with a nice sounding name funded and located inside the Federal Reserve which is owned by those same big banks. Next thing you know, she'll be telling us she is an Indian. I'm thinking that she was assigned the role of good cop in a good cop/bad cop banker routine. I'm not planning to vote for her but I still like some of her rhetoric more than that of most democrats and many Republicans. Sometimes I want to imagine that she is the new Dennis Kucinich but she isn't.