FEMA for Detroit and Suburbs

Should the public PAY via FEMA [[i.e. federal tax dollars we all pay into)
to recover/rebuild flooding issues - OR - should the burden be on INSURANCE ?

I say the nonsense of ""act-of-god"" needs to be abolished and the greedy
Insurance Companies need to pony up for there """miscalculations of risk """""

Snyder is currently attempting to get FEMA monies for Michigan
Most ordinary residents won't see a dime, since they had no structural damage.
A few actual had big structural issues, walls caving in, etc. , but it was rare.
The majority of FEMA money will go toward the local governments, like Warren.
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...oods/15816049/

A Statewide 10 Mil Property Tax should be passed to rebuild our aging infrastructure. This will reinvigorate our economy, create good paying jobs and prepare all of us for the return of union jobs that pay at least $30 per hour or more should our leaders keep their promises.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Willi

Should the public PAY via FEMA [[i.e. federal tax dollars we all pay into)
to recover/rebuild flooding issues - OR - should the burden be on INSURANCE ?

I say the nonsense of ""act-of-god"" needs to be abolished and the greedy
Insurance Companies need to pony up for there """miscalculations of risk """""

Snyder is currently attempting to get FEMA monies for Michigan
Most ordinary residents won't see a dime, since they had no structural damage.
A few actual had big structural issues, walls caving in, etc. , but it was rare.
The majority of FEMA money will go toward the local governments, like Warren.
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...oods/15816049/

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Most standard homeowner insurance policies have limitations. Here in Florida, windstorm damages and floodwater damages are excluded and require separate policies.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Willi

Should the public PAY via FEMA [[i.e. federal tax dollars we all pay into)
to recover/rebuild flooding issues - OR - should the burden be on INSURANCE ?

I say the nonsense of ""act-of-god"" needs to be abolished and the greedy
Insurance Companies need to pony up for there """miscalculations of risk """""

Snyder is currently attempting to get FEMA monies for Michigan
Most ordinary residents won't see a dime, since they had no structural damage.
A few actual had big structural issues, walls caving in, etc. , but it was rare.
The majority of FEMA money will go toward the local governments, like Warren.
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...oods/15816049/

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That's why we have insurance. I don't keep stuff in my basement. I shouldn't have to pay for finished basements below the water table when they flood.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gpwrangler

That's why we have insurance. I don't keep stuff in my basement. I shouldn't have to pay for finished basements below the water table when they flood.

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How about flooded freeways? A 10 Mil tax for this is a bargain. This is a safety and jobs issue.

$1k per year more in property tax is a bargain basement price. This will fix our infrastructure for everyone and we all pay for this. Higher rent and housing costs but this is an investment and a savings. We fix now or pay more later.

Let's all go to the ball game ----- So much for so little.

Right now the State of Michigan is using its Revolving Fund for infrastructure drainage projects
Perhaps a better mechanism exists like putting a millage on the state ballot.

Warren is known to have a LOT of clay,
so much so that brick making was big business in 1850.
The water table in Macomb is only 5 to 20 feet below the ground’s surface;
while the sewer lines are buried 35 feet deep or more.
This results in significant water pressure,
acting on the outside of the plain concrete sewer pipes.
Inflow and Infiltration are constant threats.
The soils in this area were deposited as layers of silts and fine sands
at the depths commonly used by municipalities to bury sewer lines.
The water pressure at relatively shallow depths
can already force silt and fine sand through very fine cracks.
The end result is continually “clogged” pipes.

New projects should be looking at steel reinforced concrete drainage piping
--of course thats an added expense, but it reaps dividends with less sinkholes, breaks, etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by That Great Guy

$1k per year more in property tax is a bargain basement price. This will fix our infrastructure for everyone and we all pay for this. Higher rent and housing costs but this is an investment and a savings. We fix now or pay more later.

Let's all go to the ball game ----- So much for so little.

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Sorry, I'm tapped out. I plan around the occasional flooding and I don't drive my car into flood waters. The freeways flood very occasionally.

If you want infrastructure improvements that bad, you can pay for them. I'm out.

A couple of facts:

1. Flood insurance is ONLY available through a federal program, and it is ONLY available if your property is within a floodplain or floodway. If a flood occurs somewhere that never floods, the federal program would have been of no assistance.

2. Flood insurance does NOT cover personal property, only structures.

3. There is a distinction in hazard insurance coverage between a flood [[water laps in over your front door) and sewer backup [[come up through the basement). My understanding [[unconfirmed) is that the vast majority of matters were the latter not the former.

4. Insurance for sewer backup is available. You just have to pay for a rider.

5. As I understand it [[again, not confirmed) the issue is that in many older areas, the storm and sanitary sewers have some level of connection. In places where they are not connected, sewer backup in the event of heavy rains does not occur. Again, someone can correct my understanding, but that's what I understand.

You should get insurance funds if your policy included sewer\drain backup. If your policy doesn't cover it, then you shouldn't get money from them.

I don't think this is quite a FEMA issue, I haven't done enough research to come to a final opinion.

I think it's unfortunate, people will need to clean up, and the next step should be infrastructure improvements to be able to handle flood waters. This was simply too much rain for the 12-town drain to handle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by That Great Guy

A Statewide 10 Mil Property Tax should be passed to rebuild our aging infrastructure.

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LOL Still trying to get other people to pay your bills I see. Btw, I have aging infrastructure at my home also. The septic tank is giving me fits and is very old. Would I get some of that 10 Mil Property Tax money for my sewer or is it only for your city? I only need a couple thousand and not the millions you want.

The reality is the rain/flood/storm was merely a catalyst, a wake up call of sort
-- to a condition that has been happeneing, repeatedly, continually, the past decade.
It is NOT new, it is not flying below the radar, government knows full well about it.
Insurance companies should pay - and not wiggle out of - or rely on special riders, etc.
They make a TON of money with all the loopholes, exclusions, extenuating circumstances.
We pay the cities, the counties, the state, the feds, AND the insurance - YET have zero $ help.

Attachment 24457

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http://www.deq.state.mi.us/csosso/cso_sso_info.shtml

What is it going to take to get people to vote the bums out of office and get stuff done ?
Once a sewer is built, and buried, the evidence is gone from sight, and the money is gone.
The Great Lakes Water Authority won't do much to prevent a re-occurance

The trouble with all of this actually is much deeper. I know that under both Dearborn and Birmingham, HUGE caverns were dug out to 'insure' that the Rouge system would 'never' flood again. What the hell happened to all that work?

In the 90s, the Birmingham weekly newspaper had a picture of an earthmoving dump truck in the cavern...and it was TINY by comparison. Those mining Tonkas are HUGE...so the caverns they made must be amazing.


Why didn't they work in Dearborn?! According to my father, who is not far from Outer Drive and Southfield, their basement flooding suddenly started sucking down the drain a few hours later...as IF someone finally threw a switch to open some floodgates. The drains were sucking up the water as if they had pumps...


THAT is where the story is...and I'd love to know if anything of the sort was built under any of the towns in Macomb County like these two...


Cheers,
John

http://www.ae-technologies.net/pdf/a...eseArticle.pdf

As shown in the link above if it works, treatment shafts are what went into Dearborn
rather than a CSO tunnel. In my recollection two of these shafts were placed on either
side of Rotunda where it crosses over the Rouge River. There was also underground
construction in a residential area north of Michigan Avenue and west of Greenfield.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gannon

According to my father, who is not far from Outer Drive and Southfield, their basement flooding suddenly started sucking down the drain a few hours later...as IF someone finally threw a switch to open some floodgates. The drains were sucking up the water as if they had pumps...


THAT is where the story is...and I'd love to know if anything of the sort was built under any of the towns in Macomb County like these two...


Cheers,
John

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That is normal when the water finally drains from the system, unless there is a blockage somewhere.

The only way to prevent basement flooding is a back flow preventer or elevated sewer plumbing. Either way is $5k to $10k but you'll never worry about it again.

If you go out and unplug the storm drains to get the water out of your street you may also get a surprise. It has to go somewhere.

There is a deadline to file basement flood claims with your local city hall. For
Dearborn it is September 25, 2014.

Macomb County has the 12Towns Drain project for the Red Run aka Clinton River.
http://redrundrain.wordpress.com/201...-40-year-mark/

Perhaps people recall those Big Dig projects are Combined Sewer Overflow Retention Basins .
http://dearbornheights.wordpress.com...ll-mean-to-us/

To deal with overflows in the Detroit metro area, CSO retention basins are utilized:
A CSO Retention Basin temporarily stores wastewater flow that exceeds system capacity.
The basin’s contents are released to the
Wastewater Treatment Plant only after overall system flow
has subsided and the plant is once again able to accept it.
During its brief stay in a CSO basin, wastewater is screened
and treated with a strong disinfectant [[industrial bleach)
The Rouge River watershed has a total of 10 such basins,
three of which are owned and operated by the DWSD.
The other seven are operated by other communities within the watershed.

http://www.rougeriver.com/kids/images/map.gif

http://redrundrain.files.wordpress.c...nt-plants1.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gpwrangler

If you go out and unplug the storm drains to get the water out of your street you may also get a surprise. It has to go somewhere.

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Yeah, someone was being an idiot and did this at my brother-in-laws when their basements were flooding.

How does a "clean" and unplugged stormdrain grate on a local street affect anyone ?
There are suppossed to be free of debris like leaves, twigs, paper/plastic garbage, etc.
-
http://annarborchronicle.com/wp-cont...action-600.jpg
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People need to remember that 90% of systems rely on gravity, i.e. slope in the pipe,
to transport the water from one place to another. Pumps cost money to operate,
and are used sparingly, when needed, at lift stations , to transport the water along.
Residents are encouraged to shovel debris in all 4 seasons, away from the grates.

http://redrundrain.files.wordpress.c...nage-slope.jpg

Over a distance of 1 mile [[5,280 feet), one end of the pipe would have to be
100 feet deeper than the other for a 2 % slope in the drain pipe.
It is expensive and time consuming to dig 100’s of feet
deep into the earth. Then crews have to make water tight connections
at 100’s of feet underground so that no leaks occur.
The deep pits would have to be safe and secure from cave-in
or collapse, preventing any possibility of death to a worker.
Slopes which are slightly less than the recommended minimum slopes — may be permitted —-.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Willi

How does a "clean" and unplugged stormdrain grate on a local street affect anyone ?
There are suppossed to be free of debris like leaves, twigs, paper/plastic garbage, etc.
-
http://annarborchronicle.com/wp-cont...action-600.jpg
-
People need to remember that 90% of systems rely on gravity, i.e. slope in the pipe,
to transport the water from one place to another. Pumps cost money to operate,
and are used sparingly, when needed, at lift stations , to transport the water along.
Residents are encouraged to shovel debris in all 4 seasons, away from the grates.

http://redrundrain.files.wordpress.c...nage-slope.jpg

Over a distance of 1 mile [[5,280 feet), one end of the pipe would have to be
100 feet deeper than the other for a 2 % slope in the drain pipe.
It is expensive and time consuming to dig 100’s of feet
deep into the earth. Then crews have to make water tight connections
at 100’s of feet underground so that no leaks occur.
The deep pits would have to be safe and secure from cave-in
or collapse, preventing any possibility of death to a worker.
Slopes which are slightly less than the recommended minimum slopes — may be permitted —-.

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waiting until the street is flooded and then clearing the storm grates makes it more likely you will swamp the system and it will back up into the sanitary sewers into your basement. I never understood why people were so intent on draining the flooded street. They also remove restrictors that are put on the grates to slow water drainage.

"But the guy on the news said to do it" blah blah blah. I have a back flow preventer so I could care less but some of your neighbors might figure it out and be pissed.

They should be cleaned regularly by residents or the occassional street cleaner
and less problems result with a normal flowpattern. No one should afraid of a street grate.

http://redrundrain.files.wordpress.c...ing-layout.jpg

So everyone lets the Insurance companies off the hook that easily ?
They simply say they won't pay, and that's that.
Interesting note on society that they conditioned everyone to be complacent,
instead of raising hell that most items get excluded due to act of god, etc.
Thousands of folks are going to get shafted and society says,
oh well you should have had the rider, should have paid more, done the paperwork, etc.
-- BUT you'll let those same people attempt to get FEMA funds for their losses

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Willi

So everyone lets the Insurance companies off the hook that easily ?
They simply say they won't pay, and that's that.
Interesting note on society that they conditioned everyone to be complacent,
instead of raising hell that most items get excluded due to act of god, etc.
Thousands of folks are going to get shafted and society says,
oh well you should have had the rider, should have paid more, done the paperwork, etc.
-- BUT you'll let those same people attempt to get FEMA funds for their losses

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It's not so much that, but it's whether it's covered by your policy. You can purchase extra coverage for sewer backup. If you purchased that, then you're covered. If you failed to purchase that coverage, then you're not.

It's really that simple.


It's like buying a Chevy and complaining that they didn't deliver a Cadillac to you.