It was 34 years ago today.
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It was 34 years ago today.
The legend lives on...
From the Chippewa on down...
of the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
Superior it's said never gives up her dead
Here's Gordon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0DqPSF2fyo
And if anyone is feeling particularly nostalgic, stop by the Dossin Museum on Belle Isle this evening. http://www.detroithistorical.org/mai...ng_events.aspx
Thanks, Sciencefair.
Wow, my brother worked on the dock where Chene Park is now on the night of the storm. he saw the EF pass by on it's last trip through the Detroit River to Duluth I believe.
The ore boat in dock that night washed out into the Detroit River the storm was that strong even here. Later they heard the news about EF.
The Fitz was on her way back from Wisconsin coming downward bound when she broke up near Whitefish Bay
The searchers all say they'd have made Whitefish Bay/
If they'd put 15 more miles behind them
'And why does legend refer to Lake Superior as female? "
My theory would be because Lake Superior is part of the nature created by Mother Nature... Or Mother Earth to the native americans.
Nerd, Blueidone is referring to the question posed to me by jbd441:
Quote:
Today, 11:28 AM
jbd441
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcole
Superior it's said never gives up her dead
Can you tell us oh wise one, the reason Superior never gives up her dead? And why does legend refer to Lake Superior as female?
Yeah, I deleted the post. I am always looking for an excuse to make fun of "Amerikkans" -- but that was irrelevant. Agreed. :o
There will also be a service tonight at the Mariner's Memorial Lighthouse located inside of Bellanger Park in River Rouge. Starts around 6:30 if I remember correctly. The Fitz was built there and they are very proud of the shipbuilding heritage.
Yeah, I was irritated by that other guy. Of course, not everybody knows TWOTEF by heart anymore.
Ah, the science behind the poetry. Good post, Retroit!
Yeah, that's pretty neat. Sounds like a one-way ticket to Davey Jones' Locker.
In a musty old hall in Detroit they prayed
When suppertime came the old cook came on deck sayin'.
"Fellas, it's too rough t'feed ya."
At seven P.M. a main hatchway caved in; he said,
"Fellas, it's bin good t'know ya!"
In a book I have about the Fitz, they discuss a picture taken during one of the diving explorations. In the picture, there can be seen a body[[most likely one of the crewman) wearing a life vest lying close to the wreckage and that was the explanation given for why it never floated to the surface.
The captain wired in he had water comin' in
and the good ship and crew was in peril.
And later that night when 'is lights went out of sight
came the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgI8bta-7aw
I remember seeing that newscast while sitting at the dinner table.
We saw her lock thru upbound at the Soo when we were on vacation that August.
My thanks to jcole, blue, and retroit for answering my questions. I never would have guessed about Lake Superior's water temp having to do with bodies never floating. The gender issue of Lake Superior makes sense in reference to Mother Nature. Oh and jcole, "oh wise one" to me was meant as a term of respect. My apology if I offended you.
Every time the sinking hits the headlines on Nov. 9th, I end up thinking of the sinking of the Carl D Bradley in 1958 and the Daniel J Morrell in 1966........
That video lilpup posted is the best one on the youtubes IMO.
I get a shiver down my spine and goose pimples every time I hear that song, probably one of my all time favorite songs.
Seems many powerful things are regarded as female, big surprise there. :)
I remember that night well. I stayed awake all night with my transistor radio under my pillow, praying for word of survivors.
Several years ago the wife and I were on our way to the lighthouse in Split Rock, MN for a relighting of the light in honor of the Fitzgerald. We stopped at a motel in Superior, WI. When we got to the room, we turned on the radio and the station was alternating playing the Gordon Lightfoot song and the Navy Hymn [[Eternal Father).
We lived in Duluth '74-'75 overlooking the harbor.
I realize that we may have seen the EF but can't say for sure. Still, the tragedy makes me wonder? Did I see the crew somewhere walking along the streets or in a store? It is a haunting memory for me. And, it makes me appreciate the source of the iron that built Detroit's cars and the power of the lake they call Superior.
Does anyone know where the love of God goes
When the words turn the minutes to hours...
waves, not words... Those are the most haunting lines in the whole song. It really conveys the gravity of the situation.
People around here who had absolutely no connection with the incident were completely preoccupied with the situation at that time. Life went on as usual but everyone sensed that there was something amiss. It was as if there were a mysterious shroud hanging over all of Michigan.
remember the Fitz...when living in Marquette, We used to remember that night with a vigorous drinking party ...[[with our fraternity) since many of the members actually met some of the crew on an earlier voyage. We must of played Gordon Lightfoot until there was a groove in the record...at Midnight we toasted the crew...Brez where ever you are thanks for the memories.
I remember the Fitz being launched, as well as the Herbert Jackson and Arthur B.Homer. I posted a picture here last spring, of the Jackson at dock - probably winter lay-up, at Nicholson Terminal. They were all basically the same hull designs according to two of the engineers that worked on them at Great Lakes Engineering Works, the yard in River Rouge where they were built. I'm sure if anything I say is inaccurate, Billybrew will correct me. He's our resident tugger and Captain.
I'd like to clarify what Billybrew said in his last sentence. The Fitz wasn't built there - Belanger Park, it was built in River Rouge at the GLEW about a half mile south of the present Belanger Park. Oddly enough the Fitz was built next to Belanger Park - the old Belanger Park. When Great Lakes Steel built their then brand new, state of the art, 80 inch mill in Rouge, they swapped the land for the new park for the old park, which was next to GLEW and a great place to watch shipbuilding.
Launch days in River Rouge were like a festival. They put flags up on light poles, closed Great Lakes Avenue partially or completely from Jefferson to the gates of the shipyards. Traffic was severely curtailed, except deliveries, celebrities, politicians, etc. My uncle/godfather owned a diner/hamburger stand near the shipyards. He often had as much orders as he could handle for delivery to the yards. I'd watch him load up a bicycle's baskets and peddle the couple of blocks to the river to deliver the food orders and return to cook and repeat the cycle. My dad often helped. In the yard, stands were set up and chairs were placed inside of gondola railroad cars for the crowd. There were hundreds, if not thousands of spectators. I was busted more than once for sneaking down to the yards to watch something extraordinary - including launchs. It was a really big deal.
In a musty old hall in Detroit they prayed
In the Maritime Sailors' Cathedral
The church bell chimed 'till it rang 29 times
For each man on the Edmund Fitzgerald.
[quote=jjaba;88358]In a musty old hall in Detroit they prayed
If I'm correct, Lightfoot is referring to the sailor's Union Hall in that lyric. If so, he's incorrect about the location of the hall. The Union Hall was in River Rouge, not Detroit. It was located in the former Kramer-Eberts Pontiac Dealership building on West Jefferson Avenue between Cicotte and Anchor Streets. It had a glass showroom where the sailors watched teevee and lounged, back rooms used to put up for a few days between jobs and the former service garage in the rear used to park sailor's automobiles while on the lakes. I had a number of friends who shipped out of there. Being in my neighborhood, I was in and out of the building. The Rouge Hotel [[restaurant and lounge) was across the street and a hangout for the sailors and the union guys. Years later, the Union Hall moved to Algonac. The head of the union was my neighbor in Allen Park and his wife was an elected official.
I thought that whole stanza referred to Mariners Church because the rector said he went to pray and, seemingly on impulse, rang the bell once for each soul.
The song does not refer to a Union Hall.
The song refers to “The Maritime Sailors’ Cathedral,” better known as Mariners' Church. http://www.marinerschurchofdetroit.org/
Rev. Ingalls, who rang the bell at Mariners 29 times, passed away on April 24, 2006.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/11/us/11shipwreck.html
A few years before she sank, the Fitz lost an anchor in the Detroit River. The Dossin Museum, as a fund raiser, convinced local WWJ-TV to show a half-hour live production of the raising of the anchor, the narration and diving conducted by local divers and Mal Sellars who was then the weatherman of Channel 4 and an experienced diver himself.. I am fortunate to have a VHS of the raising, and the anchor is now resting in the area next to the museum with a fitting plaque.
A lifetime ago I found myself teaching Beowolf to a bunch of students who didn't care and didn't understand the import of the oral tradition. To get them to understand how stories become legends and then seep into society's dna, I played the Gordon Lightfoot song. It was just the trick I needed to have the lights in their heads turn on.
1KeilsonDrive, as lilpup & John said, the musty old hall in the song referred to the Mariners’ Church, not the sailors’ union hall. Lightfoot wrote the song after reading the Newsweek article, which talked about Father Ingalls ringing the bell for the lost crew.
Second, I think BillyBBrew was referring to the fact the vessel was built in River Rouge, not specifically at the site of Bellanger Park. On that note, however, the Fitz was actually launched in the slip which is now the Great Lakes Steel Boat Club. There’s a beautiful shot of the slip on the club’s home page. http://www.glsbc.com/
Lastly, you can view the Fitz’s lost anchor, to which the rock referred, via the Dossin live webcam at the GLMI website. The webcam link is about half-way down on the right side. http://www.glmi.org/ Once you get to the cam, there’s an option to view the anchor.
The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
Of the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
The lake, it is said, never gives up her dead
When the skies of November turn gloomy.
With a load of iron ore - 26,000 tons more
Than the Edmund Fitzgerald weighed empty
That good ship and true was a bone to be chewed
When the gales of November came early
The ship was the pride of the American side
Coming back from some mill in Wisconson
As the big freighters go it was bigger than most
With a crew and the Captain well seasoned.
Concluding some terms with a couple of steel firms
When they left fully loaded for Cleveland
And later that night when the ships bell rang
Could it be the North Wind they'd been feeling.
The wind in the wires made a tattletale sound
And a wave broke over the railing
And every man knew, as the Captain did, too,
T'was the witch of November come stealing.
The dawn came late and the breakfast had to wait
When the gales of November came slashing
When afternoon came it was freezing rain
In the face of a hurricane West Wind
When supper time came the old cook came on deck
Saying fellows it's too rough to feed ya
At 7PM a main hatchway caved in
He said fellas it's been good to know ya.
The Captain wired in he had water coming in
And the good ship and crew was in peril
And later that night when his lights went out of sight
Came the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald.
Does anyone know where the love of God goes
When the words turn the minutes to hours
The searchers all say they'd have made Whitefish Bay
If they'd fifteen more miles behind her.
They might have split up or they might have capsized
They may have broke deep and took water
And all that remains is the faces and the names
Of the wives and the sons and the daughters.
Lake Huron rolls, Superior sings
In the ruins of her ice water mansion
Old Michigan steams like a young man's dreams,
The islands and bays are for sportsmen.
And farther below Lake Ontario
Takes in what Lake Erie can send her
And the iron boats go as the mariners all know
With the gales of November remembered.
In a musty old hall in Detroit they prayed
In the Maritime Sailors' Cathedral
The church bell chimed, 'til it rang 29 times
For each man on the Edmund Fitzgerald.
The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down
Of the big lake they call Gitche Gumee
Superior, they say, never gives up her dead
When the gales of November come early.
Good report Rock. Good to see The Rock posting. Nobody in Detroit knows maritime history like The Rock.
Yes, ofcourse, the Lightfoot song refers to Mariners Church. As we know, it was moved during the great urban renewal Civic Center to a few blocks East on E. Jefferson, Downtown Detroit.
1kielsondrive does a nice job with his story of Maritme Union Hall history. Thanks.
jjaba.
[quote=Awfavre;88391]1KeilsonDrive, as lilpup & John said, the musty old hall in the song referred to the Mariners’ Church, not the sailors’ union hall. Lightfoot wrote the song after reading the Newsweek article, which talked about Father Ingalls ringing the bell for the lost crew.
__________________________________________________ _____________________________-I'm willing to concede I may be incorrect in my interpretation of that point. Although I've listened to Lightfoot's song a zillion times, and a lot of those times specifically in hopes of clarifying the lyrics, I was never able to be completely sure of his intent. I posted my comments regardless of specific correctness of the hall mentioned in the song, to give a view of the hall and surroundiungs in River Rouge and SW Detroit. All other aspects are correct. I grew up there. I knew people involved at the hall, the bars, the yards, etc. I also frequented those very places I mentioned. In the case of the bars - I too frequented them - ha, ha.
[quote=Awfavre;88391]1KeilsonDrive
On that note, however, the Fitz was actually launched in the slip which is now the Great Lakes Steel Boat Club. There’s a beautiful shot of the slip on the club’s home page. http://www.glsbc.com/
Awfavre, on this point, I'm not conceding. The Fitz WAS NOT built and launched in the Great Lakes Steel Boat Club slip, no matter statements to the contrary. That's incorrect. She WAS built and launched at the next slip, immediately south. Satellite it. Her launch site was between the Nicholson Terminal and Dock, where the Bob Lo Boats now sit, and the GLSBC slip. The slip where the Fitz was launched is now home to the Great Lakes Tugs [[G TUGS), which were formerly home ported on the Rouge River, right smack next to the West Jefferson Avenue drawbridge. You can still see the rails of the cranes along side the launch site. I was at the Fitz's launch and either the Jackson or the Homer, which were the last boats built at Great Lakes Engineering Works. I grew up three blocks away. I was also a member of GLSBC for most of my young life. Eligibility for membership in Great Lakes Steel Management Boat Club, as it was called back then, was being a manager at GLS. My family was not in management. But my father, a business owner and lifelong citizen of River Rouge, pulled strings to get us a well. I remember our neighbor who was president and got us in. Some of my closest friends, including those involved in running the Rouge Historical Museum, were also members and boat owners. GLEW did include the slip where the GLSBC is now located. According to old timers I spoke to as I grew up, that's where smaller ships were built, particularly during WWII. There was evidence of it's shipbuilding heritage even when I was a member - large chains and turnbuckles in the ground next to the wells. I often walked to the shipyards and GLSBC. As a youth, I co-owned, with my dad, brother-in-law and friends, numerous boats. Which were, for most part, kept at GLSBC and/or in Lewiston, MI.
Awfarve is correct. I was referring to the City of River Rouge, not Bellanger Park specifically. [[as the building/launch site). With all due respect to 1Kielson, I've looked at many photos of the launch site and the dock itself from my boat and I do not believe the Fitz was launched in the GLT slip. The dock in the launch pics is a sheet metal dock, and the GLT slip is all concrete. I also don't see the correct configuration for the rail cranes. However, I was not there and things do change, so I'm glad to have new info to give me something to research further. I had always heard it was the GLSBC slip it was launched in as well.....Either way, GLT's slip was definately part of the shipyard!
According to what I've read, she was bound for Zug Island, not Cleveland as the lyrics state. But Zug Island doesn't roll off the tongue like Cleveland does. What's the real story?
Billy, on most things related to Great Lakes Shipping, etc, I'd defer to you for one reason : you live the life NOW. There are a number of reasons why I won't defer to you on this one : #1. I was there. I lived the life THEN - many times while ships we're discussing were being built and launched. #2. I've been back many times in the ensuing years, including recently. #3. I'll walk you blindfolded around that whole area - Nicholson Terminal and Dock [[which I worked at during my teens), the site of the former Dana Corporation and Murray Body, Lipsett Steel [[look that one up), the sulphur ponds [[where we used to skate), old and new Belanger Parks, named after my family's doctor - Henry. His son, Ernest E. was my neighbor, employer, friend and doctor from birth to early 20's. #4. I played in what we called the 'Marsh' [[it was the Rouge kids equivalent of the back forty), about a lake freighter's length from the GLEW gates. I could see ships sitting there. The railroad tracks - we played there. I docked my boats at GLSBC for many years. #5. Not one person, no one, until now, has ever asserted to me that GLSBC was the launch site, including people who worked at GLEW. #6. Look at pictures of the Fitz being built. You can see landmarks that aren't obvious to younger or unfamiliar persons. I can point those out to you. The most important one was just demolished in the last 7 or 8 years - the Engineering Building. Not too long before it's demolition, I spoke with people both you and I know. They indicated the E Bldg and launch site might become part of a marina to be gifted to River Rouge. It's now gone and that area is gated. That building sat directly at the foot of Great Lakes Avenue. Not to the left, not to the north [[where the GLSBC is located) but right at the foot of Great Lakes Avenue. I remember walking right up to that gate, as a kid, and passing through it hundreds of times in the years since. The first time I ever heard what even slightly sounded like an assertion the GLSBC was the launch site is in a book I just finished a couple of weeks ago : S.S.Edmund Fitzgerald. Requiem For The Toledo Express. A Search For Truth. Raymond Ramsey M.Sc. It's a must read for Edmund Fitz and Great Lakes Shipping fans. Eccentric, unusally written, poorly edited, but fascinating nonetheless. Ramsay worked on the Fitz. He contends she was poorly maintained for operational profits. He also points fingers. He worked at GLEW with a long ago friend of mine who was the hull engineer for the Fitz. A caption of a picture in his book seems to suggest, if I remember correctly, the GLSBC [[yacht club as he calls it) was the launch site.
But Zug Island doesn't roll off the tongue like Cleveland does. [/quote]
That probably tells the whole story right there.
Here's the actual launching, I believe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AWLNGJQ9Kc
Here's a website with a ton of info on the Fitz. It's kind of disjointed, but if you poke around it tells the story:
http://www.tv17.org/
Someone up there mentioned the sinking of the Daniel J. Morrell. I have shivers running up my back just thinking of it. The anniversary of that one is coming up on November 29 [[1966).
We were privileged to hear the lone survivor, Dennis Hale, speak at a Great Lakes Shipwreck Society dinner in April, 1981. He told the most riveting first hand story I have ever heard. Details were stark and clear. You could hear the wind screaming and see the snow swirling. Eerily, though it was April 4, I think, and the snow was all melted, with the daytime temperature in the 40s, a blizzard blew up suddenly, and the wind was howling and snow was beating against the windows of the banquet room as he spoke.
Some of the details -- the boat broke in half, and the front half sank after Dennis Hale and three others had gotten off on a life raft. Hale had on only his underwear and a lifejacket, as he had been in bed. As the back half of the Morrell sailed by, Hale could see the oiler standing in a doorway with his oilcan in his hand. During the night, the three others on the raft died from the cold. He said he was talking to the man nearest him, and the man looked at him, coughed, and died. Hale was alone. He didn't know if there were any other survivors. He drifted ashore in the late evening on a beach surmounted by a high bluff. On top of the bluff, he could see the lights of a house, but he could not move. He watched those lights until they went out.
Feeling very lonely, he began to realize he was thirsty. He started eating snow that was crusted on his jacket. Suddenly, there was an old man there in front of him, with long white hair and beard. The man told him, 'Don't eat the snow. You'll lower your body temperature and die.' Hale thought about that man all night. Who was he? Did he get help? Was he even real? He finally started to eat the snow again, and the man came back. He said, 'I told you not to eat the snow. You'll lower your body temperature and die.' After that, Hale did not eat any snow. It finally got light, and some time later, he was found after 38 hours. He had some frostbite on his feet and legs but was in good condition otherwise.
After the talk, he signed a painting I have of the Daniel J. Morrelll, and I still have it on my wall today.
PS. I am going to make a post about woman power over on the Paging Gazhekwe thread if anyone is interested.
1Kielson, I actually was not disputing what you say. I am curious about this conflict. As I said, the part that confuses me the most [[and I did go back and look at my launch photos in detail) is that the dock where the GLT tugs are at is concrete and appears to always have been so. The dock visible in the launch pics in the same spot is all steel sheeting. I would love to take a drive down there and have a bite of lunch and have you show me these things. I always thought the same thing you were saying about the launch site until someone told me differently. Let's do it, you know how to reach me....
Thin personal connection. The USCGC Woodrush was involved in the search. I reported aboard a couple of years later. Superior is an ocean, and it can get cold, dark, rough, and lonely out there. More than once our clinometer went "past the point of no return". We never capsized, but it sure felt like it. If you have to die, I can't think of a better way to go. Prayers for all the sailors and the loved ones they left behind. I still remember all the wives and kids and girlfriends waving us good-bye at the park by the Duluth lift bridge. Thank God we always came back.
Once upon a time, BillyBBrew & others originally told me the GLEW launch slip is the one where the G-tugs currently reside, at the foot of Great Lakes Street. Armed with this info, several years back around the time of the 30th Anniversary of the Fitz’s sinking, I arranged for a Fitz family member to visit the slip. It took many letters & signed liability releases.
I was very proud of my efforts to allow the family member to see where it all began. One day, I mentioned my endeavor to former Dossin Great Lakes Museum Curator John Polacsek. He mentioned the slip was the one at the Boat Club. I was stunned & queried him hard: could he be sure? He smiled his Cheshire Cat Smile & said yes, it was a common misperception that the G-tugs slip was the launch slip.
So, the day of the family member’s visit came, & I explained the conundrum to her. We decided to go, anyway. When we got to the G-tugs slip, we saw the chained gate protecting a shortcut to the Boat Club property. You could see the Boat Club slip right there, just on the other side of some trees & bushes. A Boatnerd, & hence not one to let NO TRESPASSING signs or dense brush deter me, we crawled under the gate & through the flora, then walked all around the slip. Eventually, we were met by Boat Club Who-Hahs, who challenged our unscheduled visit. Needless to say, their demeanor thawed when the family member explained her purpose. They affirmed Mr. Polacsek’s statement about the launch slip being the one at the Boat Club.
Now, anyone can make a claim about what their boat club slip did or didn’t do at one time or another, but Mr. Polacsek knows more about Detroit’s maritime history than all of us on this forum put together. I’m betting he’s the one who’s correct. If anyone wants to disagree, feel free. [[As an aside, if I can ever find the bloody photos I took that day, I’ll post them in an album to share.)
As for the Lightfoot song, 1KielsonDrive, you can believe whatever you want, which is why such songs are so powerful. My interpretation is based on what I’ve read & what various speakers have said at all the many Fitz memorials, including Father Ingalls at the Mariners’ Church services. I’d like to say the family member told me Mr. Lightfoot told her when they met he was referring to the Mariners’ Church, but I cannot recall for certain.
Just because a curator is a curator doesn't mean he hasn't been given bad information and perpetuated it ever since. Memories are often faulty, but Kielson's experiences seem very convincing, especially when compared to photographic evidence.
In this photo, taken looking west from bow to stern of the early stages of the keel, the stack and tanks in the background are north of Great Lakes St. The boat is being built south of the southern slip at the foot of Great Lakes Street, and a floating dry-dock is in the slip itself:
http://www.glmi.org/fitz/gallery/pages/fitzabuildd.htm
Same here, only now a self-unloader is in the slip:
http://www.glmi.org/fitz/gallery/pages/fitzbuild35.htm
In this launch photo, you can see spectators on top of a dry-dock in the northern slip, where the boat club is now:
http://www.glmi.org/fitz/gallery/pages/fitzlaunchg.htm
The Fitz was the largest boat built there. Aerial photos from the era show larger boats being built or serviced in the larger southern slip.
There probably aren't a lot of people who care, but if you're interested in accuracy or bragging rights, the misinformation should be corrected.
That's an incredible set of photos of the building of the Fitzgerald. Amazing how they shaped the steel of the hull.
BillyBBrew, don't worry about it even if you are disputing me. We have a nice dialogue going here. This is learning time. Even if I feel absolutely certain about some things in my life, I've learned that I may have some things wrong or distorted. I don't believe it's the case here, but I have to review all of things I've thought about this, since my childhood, to feel confident I have it correct. My emphasis in posting is often just that - attempting to be emphatic and not calling anyone out. It's often difficult to express emotions [[excitement, disappointment) in emails and posts.
Thank you MikeM. You're very first photo link proves my point. I've seen that photo many times. It's one of the photos that put the whole thing into perspective for me over the years, in addition to my memories. I'll walk anyone down Great Lakes Avenue and if we can get past the No Trespassing signs without being arrested and charged [[the judge in Rouge is a close friend - he might have mercy on us), I'll stand you on the ground where that photo was taken. Look closely - the tanks in the upper right behind the smokestack are on the north side of Great Lakes Avenue, across the railroad tracks. Our swampy playground, or the 'Marsh', as we Rouge kids called it, is right next to those tanks - west. Satellite it! You'll see the tanks are still in the same location. To get to the GLSBC, you come across the tracks and go left [[right in the photo) and follow the road around to the GLSBC. I rest my case unless someone feels the need to be walked through this. If that's the case - you have to buy beers and lunch at the Zenith in Rouge. I'll invite the judge in case our lunch is interrupted by the gendarmes.
[quote=Awfavre;88745]
One day, I mentioned my endeavor to former Dossin Great Lakes Museum Curator John Polacsek. He mentioned the slip was the one at the Boat Club. I was stunned & queried him hard: could he be sure? He smiled his Cheshire Cat Smile & said yes, it was a common misperception that the G-tugs slip was the launch slip.
Eventually, we were met by Boat Club Who-Hahs They affirmed Mr. Polacsek’s statement about the launch slip being the one at the Boat Club.
Now, anyone can make a claim about what their boat club slip did or didn’t do at one time or another, but Mr. Polacsek knows more about Detroit’s maritime history than all of us on this forum put together. I’m betting he’s the one who’s correct.
Response from 1KD : One day I was on the Detroit River with a very wise old captain of a private yacht. One of our guests asked about a building on the American shore. Our captain, whom I seldom ever doubted, replied what the building was. He was wrong. I knew exactly what the building was and later proved it. Captain knew more about the river in his youth than I'll know in my entire life. But he was wrong on that one. He wouldn't admit it and I didn't push it. I admired his experience and knowledge and wanted to enjoy my cruises with him for as long as possible. John from the Dossin, whom I've spoken to many times over the years, is a huge wealth of knowledge about the Great Lakes and shipping. He's wrong on this one. It happens. It doesn't lessen my admiration of him. I've known [[and still know) a lot of the GLSBC Who-Hahs. Some of them are the kids and grandkids of people I knew all of my life. I might speculate they like the 'idea' of bragging that their boat club is the home of the Fitz. Just speculation. They're wrong. Why not let them have their fun?
Thanks OG. Very informative video. At about 1:30 into the video, as the camera sweeps from east to north, you see two structues in the distance with a large metal, frame structure appearing to their left as the camera continues to sweep. Those lower structures are the ballast tanks of the floating dry-dock of the GLEW. It was the largest dry-dock on the Great Lakes at that time. It was able to lift very large lakers completely out of the water. That dry-dock, for all appearances, is sitting in the slip that is now the GLSBC. The tall, metal frame structure appearing to its left is what we called 'The Block House'. I think that was it's generally accepted, and maybe its official name. It's now gone. Anyone interested in buying the beers and burgers at my friend's bar, about two blocks away, can have a tour guided by me, if you think you can put up with me for that long [[that's my girlfriend's line).
MikeM, your third photo posted in #69 is additional support for what I said. You mentioned the spectators on the dry-dock. That's it. That's the drydock I mentioned and it's sitting in the GLSBC slip. Thank you. I'm not gloating. I'm relieved. At my age, sometimes you begin to have doubts about your own memory. What did I say?
I did look at the pics Mike M. posted and they do seem to verify what 1Kielson is saying and my original claim of GLT's slip being the launch slip. Next year when I have my tin can out, I will make a trip there and take another look at the end of the slip. My photos [[that Chick's dad took 1Kielson) they were on the water at the end of the slip so I'll look there again. I'm still up for a ride down there and it's still called the Marsh, actually the "long marsh" the "short marsh" is the tank farms along the Rouge River along Marion where it's perpendicular to Jefferson.
Thanks Gaz, as always you tell a riveting story.
That was never the 'Marsh' to us. We hung out along Marion, or the ID [[ I don't know where they came up with this?), as it was called, short for the Industrial Highway, on either side of Great Lakes Avenue and along Ironton Street which ran south from Great Lakes Avenue to Ecorse and Tecumseh Road, the main gate to Great Lakes Steel. That's where the action was : frogs, toads, polywogs, tadpoles, garter snakes, salamanders, musk [[mush) rats, rabbits, foxes, pheasants, etc. And all kinds of woods and thickets. Heavens knows what pollutants we were palying in. Marion, or the Industrial Highway was our race track and proving grounds. Had many a joy ride down there, including a few collisions.
I've seen the photos MikeM posted many times. Somewhere amongst those pictures is a photo of a long ago friend of mine who was either the Chief Hull Engineer for the Fitz or some such title. He later worked at Hansen Welding, a ship yard in Toledo. We'd often talk shipping when he came into my place of employment.
You didn't sound bitchy AND you did help to solve a puzzle. That is - a puzzle[[ed) Old Fart. Thanks.
The Fitz was one of the largest ships on the Great Lakes for many years and was the one of the largest ever built at GLEW. The Homer and the Jackson were considered the Fitz's sister ships, having been built from identical, or near identical plans. In later years of the Fitz's life, ultra-lakers [[approximately 1,000 feet long and beams around 100 feet wide) were beginning to be built. Some built in sections and joined together at later dates and locations. The first of which was the Stewart J. Cort. My friend I referred to in an earlier post who was hull engineer on the Fitz, maintained the Fitz and the Homer were identical plans. He said in those days, it was unlikely, due to the state of technology, that they'd be identical upon completion. His statements were made in the 70's. You can imagine how far we've advanced in accuracy since then. The Fitz was listed as 729 Feet long and 75 feet wide and the Homer as 730x75. The Herbert Jackson was around 700 feet, give or take a few, and 75 feet wide. Attached photo is the Jackson taken last spring at Nicholson Terminal and Dock, sitting across from the Bob Lo Boats. I was startled to see her, thinking she'd been scrapped. I had to call BillyBBrew to confirm she was the same Jackson.
November 10 - Edmund Fitzgerald Memorial Service
. A memorial service for the men lost on the Edmund Fitzgerald was held on
November 10 at Dr. Henri Belanger Park in River Rouge, Mi.
The service will be held near the Mariners Memorial Lighthouse beginning at 6:00 p.m.
The tug boat will be on hand to take out a wreath to be placed on the river.
The service will feature a plaque presentation, bell ringing, lantern lighting,
and refreshments will be served.
The service was at River Rouge Michigan on the Detroit River next to where the ship was
built at the slips and on the other side is where Zug Island is located.
MAP
A Special
Edmund Fitzgerald
Open House
Was open to the public from 3:00 pm to 5:00 pm at the River Rouge Historical Museum
River Rouge Historical Museum
10750 W. Jefferson Ave.
River Rouge, Michigan 48218
[[Formerly Gallagher Funeral Home)
MAP
Roscoe here the large slip is the one for the fitz I have film and pictures that prove this not the smaller slip at the boat club
Thanks
www.ssedmundfitzgerald.com
November 10 - Edmund Fitzgerald Memorial Service
. A memorial service for the men lost on the Edmund Fitzgerald was held on
November 10 at Dr. Henri Belanger Park in River Rouge, Mi.
The service will be held near the Mariners Memorial Lighthouse beginning at 6:00 p.m.
The tug boat will be on hand to take out a wreath to be placed on the river.
The service will feature a plaque presentation, bell ringing, lantern lighting,
and refreshments will be served.
The service was at River Rouge Michigan on the Detroit River next to where the ship was
built at the slips and on the other side is where Zug Island is located.
MAP
A Special
Edmund Fitzgerald
Open House
Was open to the public from 3:00 pm to 5:00 pm at the River Rouge Historical Museum
River Rouge Historical Museum
10750 W. Jefferson Ave.
River Rouge, Michigan 48218
[[Formerly Gallagher Funeral Home)
MAP
Each year, in honour of the Edmund Fitgerald crew, a bell is rung 29 times during ' Last Watch Ceremony.' The 30th ring is for all mariners lost on the Great Lakes.
http://www.ssedmundfitzgerald.com/Post-Card-2009.jpg
Official 2009
S S Edmund Fitzgerald Post Card
for the 34th Anniversary Program
River Rouge, Michigan
E-Mail Us for a FREE Post Card
Meet Daughter of ROBERT C. RAFFERTY
I am honored and excited to be invited to attend the upcoming service held this
November 10th in River Rouge.I will be coming from Kansas to honor my dad and the other
28 crewmen.My father was the " Old Cook" referred to in the Gordon Lightfoot song.
There will be so many events having to do with the FITZ I hope to be able to fit it all in.
I think it's great to include the school kids learning about the Great Lakes and the ships
that have sailed on them.
I grew up in Toledo Ohio and watched from many ports my dads ship sail off with a load
of iron ore or coal. Those good memories never go away. Hope to see you there.
All are welcome to honor and remember that fateful night.
Pam Johnson
Daughter of ROBERT C. RAFFERTY
http://www.ssedmundfitzgerald.com/DSC08053.JPG
Meet Author, Raymond Ramsay M. Sc.
Author, Raymond Ramsay M. Sc. was a member of the original design team at Great Lakes Engineering Works during the design and construction of the largest and fastest ore carrier ever built on the Great Lakes.
The author, together with a group of volunteers retired ship captains and maritime experts have uncovered secrets and unveiled evidence to prove why the ore carrier sank to the bottom of Lake Superior on November 10, 1975.
Raymond Ramsay will have his books available at the November 10, 2009 program.
http://www.ssedmundfitzgerald.com/fi...ook%5B1%5D.jpg
Here whats new about the Edmund Fitzgerald and the 2009 service
November 8, 2009 Interview mp3 13.74 meg
Roscoe, thanks for the posts and information. Here's the aerial photo of the GLSBC and the slip where The Fitz was launched, copied from Raymond Ramsay's book you and I mentioned in our previous posts. I recommend Ramsay's book for anyone interested in The Fitz and Great Lakes Shipping.
Here's the article resulting from my suggestion to Kim Heron at the Metro Times last year for inclusion in MT's, 'Best of ' issue. I also suggested the title. As usual, they got the location wrong. They said Ecorse, but it's River Rouge. That's after I emphasized Rouge to them. In MT's defense, they're not the only ones to get it wrong.
Because I detect more than slight interest in this topic . . .
Speaking of John Polacsek and the Dossin Great Lakes Museum, as 1KielsonDrive did on Thursday afternoon, three talented Detroit News storytellers today posted a multimedia presentation with video [[4:30) shot as ham operators at the Belle Isle museum sent and received Lost Mariners Remembrance memorial messages from vessels worldwide this week.
Footage also includes recollections of That Day from Janet Burke of Grosse Pointe Park, who grew up with Fitz crewman Thomas Bentsen. And yes, also the soundtrack from a certain ballad.
Impressive work by photographer Donna Terek, producer Max Ortiz and writer Louis Aguilar.
1KielsonDrive, Is there another boat under the water in that slip? I see a dark outline from Google Earth, and also in the pic you posted above? any idea what it was?
That's an interesting photo. When was it taken? Some of these satellite pictures are way out of date. Regardless, it sure looks like the outline of a hull. I've cruised in that slip and walked by it, but I don't remember any mention of a sunken boat. If I'm down there soon, I'll see if I can get in and inspect it. Maybe the guys at the G Tugs will have an idea what it is.
Looks like a sunken rail barge:
Attachment 3879
Attachment 3880
Thanks MikeM, you're a good problem solver. I haven't walked onto the property for quite a while because it's now posted again. After removing the National Steel security gates some years ago [[8 - 10?), which allowed unimpeded access to the GLEW/Fitz slip, as well as the GLSBC, I and friends had walk-throughs fairly often. One of the old GLEW buildings was still standing - barely. It's now gone and they use the area for bulk materials. As you can see in MikeM's photos. Now, it's more difficult to access the Fitz slip. I'll see about asking the G Tuggers what they may know if I get down there.
PAGING BillyBBrew! Tell us what you know about the photos of the sunken barge posted by RagTopLover and MikeM, please. Billy is much more familiar with the waterfront in recent years, and day to day, than most people. Billy, please talk to the tuggers and get us some scuttlebutt. Thanks.