Detroit priest and activist Thomas Gumbleton dies at 94

[Moderator note: this post contains inaccuracies. Bishop Gumbleton was neither defrocked nor kicked out of the Catholic Church. He did not attempt to "provide cover for the sexual molestation of underage altar boys by other former priests who have left the church".

Instead, "A survivor of sexual abuse himself, Gumbleton was forced to resign in 2007 after he spoke out publicly in favor of an Ohio bill to extend the statute of limitations for cases of sexual abuse by clergy. Gumbleton spoke here in New York City last night at a benefit for the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests." Source

Neither was he "removed from the church for wearing a homosexual themed miter".

Gumbleton wrote extensively on Catholic teaching regarding homosexuality. Gumbleton often drew from his personal experience of having a gay brother. During his time as auxiliary bishop of Detroit, Gumbleton wore a mitre at a church service that displayed symbols of the cross, a rainbow and a pink triangle. The pink triangle caused particular complaints by some due to its use to identify gay men in Nazi concentration camps. Source

He did break ranks with church teaching by preaching in favor of acceptance of gay men and lesbians and the ordination of women. Source"]

One time Detroit Auxiliary Bishop Thomas Gumbleton has died. The defrocked priest was kicked out of the Catholic Church in disgrace after attempting to provide cover for the sexual molestation of underage altar boys by other former priests who have left the church. There will be no tears shed in his passing.
Attachment 43096

You're wrong as usual. Your admission to Cass Tech must have been a case of mistaken identity.

https://www.ncronline.org/news/accountability/retired-bishop-asked-leave-detroit-parish-testimony

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Gumbleton

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Originally Posted by CassTechGrad

One time Detroit Auxiliary Bishop Thomas Gumbleton has died....

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Other than that I haven't been able to corroborate any of your other information. How long do we need to search? Can't you just give us a link to your source? Or is your source only in your head?

I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt. That was a gift not yet reciprocated.

Lmao he was anti-war, in favor of equal rights and fought against the church's abuse of children, but he wore something with rainbow on it so now a narrative must be created... And you wonder why non-believers are the fastest growing segment in this country.

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Originally Posted by southen

Lmao he was anti-war, in favor of equal rights and fought against the church's abuse of children, but he wore something with rainbow on it so now a narrative must be created... And you wonder why non-believers are the fastest growing segment in this country.

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Amen, from this non believer. When you're dead, you're dead. Ain't no hereafter.

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Originally Posted by Ray1936

Amen, from this non believer. When you're dead, you're dead. Ain't no hereafter.

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Problem is it is hard to dispute,because nobody knows until they get there,at that point it is kinda hard to come back and say - I told ya so,and even if one comes back re-incarnation do they remember what happened before that moment?

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Originally Posted by Richard

...re-incarnation?

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It would be easier to be reincarnated than for a pope to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...g/73220132007/

He was fantastic! Some people will always trash people that try to be inclusive. I loved the guy!!! RIP!!

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Originally Posted by casscorridor65

Some people

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https://youtu.be/e_pTYbNCd68

He was defrocked after speaking out in favor of a bill that would have given victims of abuse a longer period to bring charges. The premise of this thread is backwards. It’s the church authorities who acted disgracefully. Not Gumbleton.

There are so many reasons that I, a former Catholic, am now a Unitarian Universalist.

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Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast

...The premise of this thread is backwards. It’s the church authorities who acted disgracefully. Not Gumbleton.

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Yup, CassTechGrad probably skipped school the day they taught reading comprehension or any kind of comprehension

Guys, guys, come on…don’t be so hard on this poor alumnus from the class of 1966. A wise man once said these words to me:

“Knowing which graves to piss on is the soul of discernment.”

Attachment 43099

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Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast

...now a Unitarian Universalist.

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Why stop at one? I'm a Zerotarian. But seriously, IME Unitarians are great comrades when it's time for coffee and donuts, while Reform Judaism has the best jokes.

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Originally Posted by CassTechGrad

Guys, guys, come on…don’t be so hard on this poor alumnus from the class of 1966. A wise man once said these words to me:

“Knowing which graves to piss on is the soul of discernment.”

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Now that's what I call good reading comprehension.:cool:

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Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast

There are so many reasons that I, a former Catholic, am now a Unitarian Universalist.

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[[In the 59 years between the formation of the UU church in 1961 and 2020, nine ministers were permanently disfellowshipped, seven of whom were expelled for reasons related to sexual misconduct or the possession of child pornography. In the three years since 2020, five ministers, including Eklof, have been disfellowshipped — for much less serious transgressions.)


Why are Unitarian Universalists so bad at singing hymns?’ goes one joke. ‘Because they’re always reading ahead to see if they agree with the lyrics!’

“ White people are born guilty of racism.”

UU is the progressive party that identifies as a religion.

I guess at the end no religion is perfect because there is a human element involved.

“The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult; and left untried.”

― G.K. Chesterton, What's Wrong with the World

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Originally Posted by Zacha341

“The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult; and left untried.”

― G.K. Chesterton, What's Wrong with the World

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One of my favorite Chesterton quotes, and I'm paraphrasing, is that pagans should follow their own tradition in that the last thing they do is convert to Christianity. ;)

Bishop Gumbleton had never been defrocked. He resigned like every bishop does at 75 and remained a bishop until his death. If he had been defrocked, the media/church would not have titled him as bishop.

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Originally Posted by Henry Whalley

... I'm a Zerotarian....

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I would have guessed you would have been a Dudeist.

Since I clicked on one of your The Big Lebowski links, I've been getting steered to related videos and I've thoroughly enjoyed the journey.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJ726Wyc3Qw
How The Big Lebowski Became a Lifestyle

• The Dudespaper
• Dudeism.com

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Originally Posted by Jimaz

I would have guessed you would have been a Dudeist.

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LOL you make a good missionary for Dudeism!

I'm back in the fold after lapsing into very undude moments of Zerotarianism while puzzling over Line 1. Wages, Salaries, and Tips of my Federal 1040. Each is an imaginary number, which rounds up to zero. After write-offs for my volunteer work with the Little Lebowski Urban Achievers, ​the IRS sends me a check for a cool ten bucks payable to the bowling alley. Ever since Port Huron, my taxes could be called Thus Spake Zerotarius or Thus Filed Imaginarius.
Very Dude!

What do you get if you cross a Unitarian and a Jehovah's Witness?

...

...

Somebody knocking on your door for no particular reason.

[Love the U/U's--most open-minded and open-arms of all denominations]

When I read Bishop Gumbleton had died, I couldn't recall if he had been for or against what I had been for or against, but I immediately thought he had been a man of good will in his time, striving to make the world a better place in some way, and that made me regret his passing.

1953

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Originally Posted by Lowell

Love the U/U's--most open-minded and open-arms of all denominations]

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Ditto Dude!

What do Unitarians say at funerals

•••

He/she/them/their/it/ is all dressed up with no place to go

And another wise man said: "You can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig".

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Originally Posted by CassTechGrad

And another wise man said: "You can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig".

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Yea but that saying does not work in the U/U world because it would take 25 years of debate in order to choose a pig let alone the color of the lipstick.

Then it gets even more complicated because it will take another 25 years of debating on whether or not the pig you choose actually identifies as a pig.

Then you have the issue with,as an all inclusive thing,will the Muslim members even allow a pig as a choice?

It’s all good though,this country was founded on freedom of cults errr sorry religion and the ability to even worship a pig if one desires.

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Originally Posted by Richard

worship a pig if one desires.

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https://youtu.be/TrxYrGOf-SE

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Originally Posted by casscorridor65

He was fantastic! Some people will always trash people that try to be inclusive. I loved the guy!!! RIP!!

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Bishop Gumbleton wrote, spoke, and lived the courage of his convictions - and was made to suffer for his honesty and forthrightness. The pursuit of radical Christianity is not rewarded in large bureaucracies.

Sadly, the articles about Bp. Gumbleton did not mention that he championed Dignity Detroit, a Catholic LGBTQ+ organization that is part of the larger Dignity USA - and celebrated Mass with them at St. Leo's parish. That was part of the reason he was forced to retire [[not resign), after which he helped relocate Dignity to the chapel at Marygrove College, with the assistance of the IHM nuns who were the proprietors / curators of that historic campus. Here is part of the backstory:

https://www.businessinsider.com/detr...ine%20meetings.

The [[conservative) Catholic cardinal-archbishop of Detroit commendably had these kind words upon Bp. Gumbleton's passing:

"Bishop Gumbleton was a faithful son of the Archdiocese of Detroit, loved and respected by his brother priests and the laity for his integrity and devotion to the people he served," said Archbishop of Detroit Allen Vigneron

Whether or not one agreed with him, Bp. Gumbleton was well liked and highly respected throughout the Americas for voicing and living the courage of his Christian convictions. He faithfully served the poor, marginalized, and oppressed -- the very kind of people whom Jesus helped and healed. The good Bishop's example continues to inform progressive Catholicism and radical Christianity. We need more like him.

Here is a link to his obituary that, despite its lavish praise, is an understatement of his impact upon Detroit, the USA, and the world:

https://www.verheyden.org/obituaries...?obId=31132129

"Well done, good and faithful servant." [Matt. 25:23]

[QUOTE=Henry Whalley;641518]It would be easier to be reincarnated than for a pope to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Yes and that also applies to old Tommy here, no way is he gettin’ past St. Peter at the pearly gates….no way, he’s burning in hell right now, wearing that rainbow miter. Jesus warned us about guys like him.

[QUOTE=CassTechGrad;641595]

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Originally Posted by Henry Whalley

….. warned us about guys like him.

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https://youtu.be/jbwYoNuTx1Q?t=853

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Originally Posted by CassTechGrad

Jesus warned us about guys like him.

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https://youtu.be/EtBCmUQQZyk

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Originally Posted by CassTechGrad

Yes and that also applies to old Tommy here, no way is he gettin’ past St. Peter at the pearly gates….no way, he’s burning in hell right now, wearing that rainbow miter. Jesus warned us about guys like him.

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Is this the Jesus of the Bible or Republican Jesus? Funny how you don’t acknowledge your lie but simply pivot to maintain a false view. Very on brand.

^ since when is opposing homosexuality a strictly Republican thing?

Are you saying the Muslims are Republicans? Even in the ME when there are no republicans or democrats.

There are a lot of people oppose it for religious reasons and feel that the last person that should be promoting it are religious leaders.

They have the right to oppose it just as much as those who do not.

What are you going to do,put them on the rack and whip them into submission?

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Originally Posted by Richard

^ since when is opposing homosexuality a strictly Republican thing?

Are you saying the Muslims are Republicans? Even in the ME when there are no republicans or democrats.

There are a lot of people oppose it for religious reasons and feel that the last person that should be promoting it are religious leaders.

They have the right to oppose it just as much as those who do not.

What are you going to do,put them on the rack and whip them into submission?

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Scientists should study your brain.

I was very clearly replying to a particular post referencing Jesus. Unlike those on the right, I don't feel freedom is limited to my own set of beliefs. Nobody is forcing anyone to be gay, but boy are the people who oppose that lifestyle trying to restrict what they can do despite it having no impact on their own lives.

You can break down the issues simply but saying that one side wants to limit rights while the other seeks equality and personal freedom. I don't force or try to legislate based on my own religious views because people should have the right to believe what they want, why do you get to?

Gumbleton is going to burn in hell for a rainbow garment? Tell me you don't follow the actual teachings of Christ without telling me...

^ at least I have a brain scientists can study.

So you do not feel freedoms are limited to your own set of beliefs,but you oppose anybody that has different beliefs and in your mind it has to be because they are Republican.

Got cha.

The constitution says every U.S. citizen is to be treated equal,it does not see color,or sexual preference it also gives freedom of religion,that means everybody is free to practice in their beliefs how they choose.

If somebody wants to believe somebody is going to burn in hell for supporting the gay community they have that constitutional right to follow their beliefs,just because you do not like it you take the path of doing exactly what you are accusing others of doing.

Latin America,French,South American,Italians and many others are devout Catholics that do not approve of homosexuality but yet there are gays n those communities.

Your stance of republicans are anti gay is no different and no more stupid then saying all African Americans are democrats.

That may be a shock to you but it is entirely possible to be gay and a Republican,or a democrat or a UU or any other religion.

Let me guess,your campaign slogan would be if you are not a socialist,commie,or progressive you ain’t gay.

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Originally Posted by Richard

^ at least I have a brain scientists can study.

So you do not feel freedoms are limited to your own set of beliefs,but you oppose anybody that has different beliefs and in your mind it has to be because they are Republican.

Got cha.

The constitution says every U.S. citizen is to be treated equal,it does not see color,or sexual preference it also gives freedom of religion,that means everybody is free to practice in their beliefs how they choose.

If somebody wants to believe somebody is going to burn in hell for supporting the gay community they have that constitutional right to follow their beliefs,just because you do not like it you take the path of doing exactly what you are accusing others of doing.

Latin America,French,South American,Italians and many others are devout Catholics that do not approve of homosexuality but yet there are gays n those communities.

Your stance of republicans are anti gay is no different and no more stupid then saying all African Americans are democrats.

That may be a shock to you but it is entirely possible to be gay and a Republican,or a democrat or a UU or any other religion.

Let me guess,your campaign slogan would be if you are not a socialist,commie,or progressive you ain’t gay.

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If they can get through that dense skull....

I get that you want to infer and make up stances taken by me but try sticking to what is actually said. Which political party has tried to legislate in ways that limit rights of the Lgbtq+ community? I don't have to make a case that your party is anti-gay, they do that themselves, as do a great deal of their followers.

CassTechGrad can say all of the stupid nonsense they want, that is their right, but I will happily point out the hypocrisy when those views conflict with the teachings of their religious texts and implications that conservatives want "freedom" for everyone.

So the funeral service for Mr. Gumbleton will be at the Cathedral of the Most Blessed Sacrament on April 13. I wish harm to no man, only long life and good health to all. But it will take all the holy water in the world to scrub away the stain left behind by this man. Amen.

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Originally Posted by CassTechGrad

...it will take all the holy water in the world to scrub away the stain left behind by this man.

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Physician, heal thyself...

P.S. Of course you wish him harm because the god you worship wishes it.

https://youtu.be/8ftjkVLaRzk

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Originally Posted by CassTechGrad

Amen.

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https://youtu.be/LebOjZgP4Lo?t=69

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Originally Posted by southen

If they can get through that dense skull....

I get that you want to infer and make up stances taken by me but try sticking to what is actually said. Which political party has tried to legislate in ways that limit rights of the Lgbtq+ community? I don't have to make a case that your party is anti-gay, they do that themselves, as do a great deal of their followers.

CassTechGrad can say all of the stupid nonsense they want, that is their right, but I will happily point out the hypocrisy when those views conflict with the teachings of their religious texts and implications that conservatives want "freedom" for everyone.

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You keep saying everybody you do not agree with has a dense skull IE everybody You do not agree with is dumb or insert any other canned response that you are directed to do.

Charles Moran is proudly gay and proudly Republican.

It is not anti-LGBTQ+, he said, to believe children should wait until at least age 16 to gender transition.

It is not bigoted, he said, to hold off until at least the sixth grade to allow classroom instruction about sexual orientation and gender identity.

It is not homophobic, he said, to believe sexually explicit drag performances should be limited to adult audiences.

https://www.latimes.com/politics/sto...islation-pride

I am not making up stances - you have plainly posted multiple times “my party” “the Republican Party “ etc is anti gay,so your stance is pretty clear and in my eyes ignorant if you are bent on throwing labels around.

You take the stance of if a man is walking down the street any other man should have the right to bend him over and boink him,if he does not want to he is anti gay.

I do not care if somebody is gay or not,but when it comes to children there are limitations just like in anything else ,you would not let a 6 year old into a peep show but it is anti gay when you do not let a 6 year old into a drag show.

Take away the normal gays who act normal and do not expect the rest of society to give them special rights because they are gay,the rest are a bunch of pedofiles trying to sexually condition children at a young age for exploiting and trying to make it a societal norm.

Its no different then the far left radicals trying to highjack the democrat party,there are radical gays that do not represent the gay community and have the most radical ideas.

Its people like you that are doing the most harm because you continue to lump everybody into one pile,that is drawing the negativity towards those who just choose to be gay and live their lives in peace.

Children have enough on their plate they should just be allowed to be children and not have things forced on them that their minds cannot even comprehend,they should be riding bikes,playing sports,drinking from garden hoses and eating dirt,they have plenty of time to figure out what the rest is about when they can maturely understand.

What are you going to do,sit down little 6 year old girls and boys pictures of male and female genitalia and explain it all to them.People get arrested for things like that and here you are supporting pedos and trying to justify it by blaming it on everybody else in order to normalize it.

My X wife is gay,at the age of 11 a then 24 yo woman started conditioning her and introducing her to the lifestyle,it screwed her head up,as a parent all 3 of my kids were free to choose their own path when they came of age and were able to fully understand their choices and were able to be comfortable in their choices.

I have been to drag shows,some were done tastefully while others definitely not a place for young child to be,no different than a burlesque show would be.

It has little to do with being gay or not it’s about deciding at what age what is acceptable and at what age,you’re not going to let a straight minor into a strip club,so why is it considered anti gay not to let a minor into a drag show that is also age restricted.

Can you point on the doll where he hurt you?
I honestly do not understand why you are so up in arms about a priest standing up for the LGBTQ+ community and against an unjust war and children being molested by other priests. He is the most human and likable priest I know of other than Fr Tom Grady who had the same stances and was booted out of St Jude for being a dissident and eventually resigned his priesthood.

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Originally Posted by CassTechGrad

So the funeral service for Mr. Gumbleton will be at the Cathedral of the Most Blessed Sacrament on April 13. I wish harm to no man, only long life and good health to all. But it will take all the holy water in the world to scrub away the stain left behind by this man. Amen.

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Not for nothing but calling it an unjust war ?

In the preface to “No Guilty Bystander,” Gumbleton urged readers to be publicly engaged by defending democracy,

Was not the U.S. involved in the Vietnam war in order to prevent the spead of communism and the right for those in that country to practice democracy ?

I can see how if one supports communism they would classify it as an unjust war ,seems a bit hypocritical to tell people to become publicly engaged while defending democracy while opposing others for doing the exact same thing,or picking and choosing who is allowed to practice democracy.

Or even dictating to other how they should practice their chosen religion,that would be like me working for Ford and demanding they build Chevrolets.

Outside of the molestation aspect,why would somebody join a religion with the sole intent to try and change their whole belief system from within?

Just start your own.

It’s one thing to oppose the horrors of war but to single out the U.S. as the bad guy even in the South American countries that were under brutal dictatorships that we help remove,what made us the bad guys in their eyes?

The fact that innocent civilians were killed in the process by our actions,or the fact that we removed brutal dictatorships that jailed and murdered 10s of thousands of innocent people?

When you have a country that puts one of Hitlers finial solution architects in charge of your state security that tortured and murdered over 100,000 innocent people and you are going to choose that person over the U.S.

People opposed the Holocaust but yet they turned right around and painted us the bad guy when the same freaks that invented it was putting it into practice once again,or maybe we were the bad guys in their eyes because they supported the mass executions of political opponents that did not bend to the communist ways.

Where was those people’s justice ,who fought for them? We did and no difference then today where you have people in this country yelling Death to America while claiming to support democracy,but in reality supporting everybody that opposes it,while hiding behind it.

I can see where his progressive policies brought him a lot of opposition no different than progressive policies bring lots of opposition today.

I tried to find where in the true religious sense he supported the troops returning from Vietnam but all I could find was where he helped spread the hatred towards them.

I joined the service in 1978 and even at that time there was a lot of places in America where you could not wear your uniform in public without some anti war freak spitting on you or telling you how they felt about it all,that is not during your religion to practice your beliefs,that is using your religion as a platform.

If a religion does not approve of LGBT why are you going to force people in that religion to except something that you yourself does not except,because that is what you are doing,telling others they need to adapt to your views and their views or beliefs have no bearing.

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Originally Posted by jcole

...I honestly do not understand why you are so up in arms about a priest standing up for the LGBTQ+ community and against an unjust war and children being molested by other priests....

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Until there is evidence to the contrary, I am left with no recourse but to assume that CassTechGrad is paid to espouse here the opinion of his employer. An employer in hiding, I might add.

No such evidence has yet been forthcoming.

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Originally Posted by Jimaz

Until there is evidence to the contrary, I am left with no recourse but to assume that CassTechGrad is paid to espouse here the opinion of his employer. An employer in hiding, I might add.

No such evidence has yet been forthcoming.

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So what would you say to a person of Jewish faith in order to convince them that the Nazis were good people ?

Because the person is a believer in their faith,there just has to be an ulterior motive because they do not bend the knee to what you feel they should believe in .

So if you find a person of the Jewish faith and tell them the Nazis were the best thing that happened to the Jewish population,and if they disagree with you then the only script you can read is they must be employed by somebody to say they feel that way ?

What are you expecting in evidence where they have to prove their faith and convictions to you personally?

Apparently they are not allowed to oppose in public without some kind of label involved,maybe everybody makes a woodpile in the town square and if they are true believers in their faith they will be willing to be your sacrifice?

Some of the stuff you post makes me wonder what your motives really are,but I just figured it was a public forum where not everybody is expected to tow the line some seem to want everybody to tow,otherwise be subject to public shaming.

As much as it seems to pain some but there are actually people out there in the real world who are capable of self thought.

Interesting discussion,everybody should have the rights and freedoms to choose,just as long as they choose what I tell them to choose,but only I am allowed to set the parameters.

Even the irony of somebody shouting in the streets -Death to America - while in support of a country that kills gay people,you even elected a representative whose religion in no way supports being gay and alive but then act like you are the honorable representative for the gay community even going on a desperate leap and saying it’s all The republicans fault.

I think in the theme of religion that would fall under the category of Practice What You Preach.

Among Madison’s 15 points was his declaration that “the Religion then of every man must be left to the conviction and conscience of every...man to exercise it as these may dictate. This right is in its nature an inalienable right.”

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/histo...ance-61312684/

But once again it goes back to that pesky constitution that so many are trying to get rid of for their benefit.

Every U.S. citizen has the right to be treated equally,you would think that is a simple enough concept to follow and if people actually did we would not have half the drama we do,but for some reason people sure do love to ignore that.

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Originally Posted by jcole

Can you point on the doll where he hurt you?

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:cool: