Detroit stopped celebrating Columbus Day a few years and now Hamtramck say NO to this stuff. The founding fathers wanted the states to support different values and beliefs and then let the people decide where they should live and be happy.
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Detroit stopped celebrating Columbus Day a few years and now Hamtramck say NO to this stuff. The founding fathers wanted the states to support different values and beliefs and then let the people decide where they should live and be happy.
News article
https://www.wxyz.com/news/hamtramck-approves-ban-on-certain-flags-critics-view-it-as-attack-on-lgbtq-community
Important part.
“City leaders argue the resolution is not just about pride flags but all flags that are a symbol of any religious, racial, ethnic or political group.”
Yea the founding fathers were all about the federal government’s involvement in peoples life be as little intrusive as possible,that is why they gave the states individual powers to create laws that they could tailor to their states in a more democratic way,giving the power to the people who would have a say.
The problem happened when a certain party at the federal level decided that the rebel flag was offensive and set president for if and when it could be flown.
Which then opened the door for people to decide what they found offensive or not,if a flag is a symbol of expression or representation you have to allow others to express themselves if you want the same privilege.
If I remember correctly somebody or several were offend in that city not long ago because the next door neighbor placed a flag that offended them.
So it put the city in a position of,because you cannot pick or choose who can individually fly a flag of self expression,the only other step you can take is what they are doing,nobody gets to fly any flag outside of the American flag.
People are really short sited in their causes,the constitution guarantees every citizen equal rights so you cannot advocate the removal of one’s rights while expecting to retain yours.
I do not agree with the Nazi flag being flown in somebody’s yard,I agree with that individuals right to fly it in self expression,I do not agree with a rainbow flag being flown in somebody’s yard or across every bridge and building in the country,yea we get it,but if you want that right you also allow others to have the same rights and privilege.
The people forced the city into that position and they replied with the only logical and constitutional decision they can,just systematically ban everything equally.
No matter what flag one flys there will be somebody somewhere that will be offended,when you advocate for the removal of individual freedoms,you cannot come bitching and crying when you find out yours will also be removed in the process.
Imagine how the socialists and commies feel every time they pass an American flag,they would love to see that one go away and seem to have plenty of supporters that would advocate for it,but even their convoluted minds understand there will be a reaction that they will not be happy with,so when it comes to that it boils down to live and let live,if you do not want to do that you have to be prepared to accept what follows.
It baffles me that people want to live in a free country,but every time you turn around somebody is on a mission to systematically remove everybody’s individual freedoms.
The Daily Mail spiced up coverage of the Hamtramck restriction of flags on public property with its version of the story.
"Michigan city with all-Muslim council bans Pride flags on public property at bizarre council meeting in which LGBTQ couple kiss in front of shocked religious groups"
Misleading thread title. Everyone take a deep breath and actually read the article. It concerns flags on "city property," not private residences. The city just wants to be neutral and not fly any special interest flag.
**Misleading Thread Title has since been Amended by Moderator by adding "On City Property"**
In part, the resolution specifies that only the U.S., state, city and prisoners of war flags can be flown on city property, which is similar to a measure approved in 2013.
If it was already established in 2013 why the ruckus?
The resolution states it is about maintaining neutrality. But many see it as a blatant attack on the LGBTQ community
Good for the Hamtramck City Council to vote to keep the pride flag out of city business. This is not a religious, racial matter. This is immoral sex culture that does not fit in. Think of the children, is it ok to tell any kid under the age of 13 that discussing sexual culture that a boy can have a boyfriend or a girl to have a girlfriend? Or is it ok your kid and young adult can be transgender, or a sissyboy or a tomboy! Same Sex culture should be taught in a confines in a home or any private establishment. Some parents know when to draw the line when a kid wants to be LGBTQ. When they get older and their hormones pump up, then its the right time to discuss about sexual behaviors before they can get sensual.
In Hamtramck folks can have the constitutional right to hang their pride flags in their homes just not a city owned properties.
By the way during the meeting two Lesbians kissed each other in front of the mayor, city council and other folks who look in disgust. There were kids in that meeting and seeing that same sex kiss will shock them and they will ask their parents a question about same sex. Their future to commit to their mate rests in their hands.
^ The pride flag isn't "sex culture" .
The original did with a Pink band representing sexuality,it was removed and redesigned to include more diversity,I am thinking so the ones that are confused as to what their sex actually is will feel more welcome.
The guy or them that redesigned the flag while excluding the pink band had this to say
Daniel Quasar
"You can’t avoid the message as it is right there in front of you."
So that has been the mantra,people cannot keep it behind closed doors,they have to put in front of you as a way of forcing acceptance but no way in the world are they going to allow anybody to flip it back on them and force them to accept something they do not want to.
There is like 50 variations of the pride flag all depending on what your sexual preference is ,so yea it is about the “sex culture “ just ask Netflix or Amazon who figure no movie is complete with some kind of same sex boinking involved.
Anybody that includes children around anything where it relates to sexuality between adults are scumbags to begin with.
Thats a decision that should be made by people with a bit of maturity so they can understand it and not be doing it to be cool or think that is what is expected of them.
The constitution states all American citizens are to be treated equally,it is as inclusive as you can get,no where does it say any group that declares themselves as a special category of people is subject to special treatment over and above everybody else or can place extra demands on society in order to receive special treatment or recognition.
I REALLY don’t need to hear from the Danny and Richard peanut galleries about the meaning of Pride flags.
The“prisoner of war” flag is a special interest flag. So this policy carves out an exception for ONE sanctioned special interest category.
This is not adult sexual revolution since the Harvey Milk Era of the 1970's. This is a matter of how governments want to accept the Pride Flag in their properties. LBGTQ flags can be hung outside of your homes, but not in governments or any religious organizations which it's deemed be inappropriate to the structure of families and children. Think of the children when they see Gays, Lesbians, sissyboys, drag queens, transgenders, bisexuals and bestialities hugging and kiss each other in public areas in front of children. Making them go to adult or parents asking those questions. And it's going to be very difficult responding them about sexual actions. For most parents, they will draw the line about how sexual education should be taught to them. I not going to tell a 6 to 15 year old boy or girl about strange sex so he can get pump out with homones and set into sexual fantasies especially into strange sex like homosexuality and their pride.
Danny, this marks the first time you've ever disappointed me.
I'll worry about this "gay flag issue" when I have to worry about being secretly heterosexual.
I say the only flag that should be flown on city property is the American flag which represents the country that we are in. Swastikas, rebels flags, Black Power Flags, Rainbow Flags etc should only be flown within individuals private properties. I am against restaurants and businesses being forced to fly the Rainbow flag because it is not a national flag but a special interest flag. Everyone has the right to their own beliefs without being harassed or attacked. I don't think that one group flag should be pushed on all
^ Well stated. The whole 'who's' flag is flown has become another litmus test -- worse the crass assumptions made when not flown.
By the end of the Vietnam War, more than 2,500 servicemembers were listed by the Department of Defense as Prisoner of War [[POW) or Missing in Action [[MIA). In 1979, as families of the missing pressed for full accountability, Congress and the president proclaimed the first National POW/MIA Recognition Day to acknowledge the families’ concerns and symbolize the steadfast resolve of the American people to never forget the men and women who gave up their freedom protecting ours. Three years later, in 1982, the POW/MIA flag became the only flag other than the Stars and Stripes to fly over the White House in Washington, D.C.
On August 10, 1990, Congress passed U.S. Public Law 101-355, designating the POW/MIA flag:
“The symbol of our Nation’s concern and commitment to resolving as fully as possible the fates of Americans still prisoner, missing and unaccounted for in Southeast Asia.”
https://www.va.gov/opa/publications/...ate/powmia.pdf
Do you honestly believe it is a special interest group ?
It is one you can join easily enough,join the military to personally defend the rights you wish to deprive others of,get caputured and endure daily torture while holding steadfast to those convictions no matter how much pain is inflicted on you.
Even the Muslims can relate to that sense as a majority they come from countries where they would endure the same fate for simply having an opposing opinion in public.
I am sure it is a hard decision for them because in their country of origin just being gay is a death sentence,but they respect the country they choose to live in which is a country where you do not try and remove the rights of those you oppose while wishing to retain yours,something many and even more so on the west coast wish to make as the standard.
FWIW, I recently heard there's an effort to redesign the Michigan flag. Here's a recent article: Does Michigan need a new flag? One lawmaker says yes.Quote:
“After people began to hear that I might be working on this, people have sent me designs. Designs from everything from the automotive industry to something to do with our unique geography, trying to capture the motion of water and two peninsulas,” Skaggs said. “A lot of people are taking an aspect of our really cluttered current flag and accentuating one part of it. So you’ll see people take the elk and either keep the dancing elk, the elk up on its hind legs, or the antlers and using that as a symbol.”
Government needs to stop concerning itself with "celebrating" their favorite minority groups and worry more about governing.
If some people didn't feel the need to constantly spout identity politics and make every day and every month revolve around those same identity politics, then other people feeling excluded wouldn't feel the need to fight back. Throw it all in the trash and go back to the days when January was just January, February was just February, and so on...
**Misleading Thread Title has since been Amended by Moderator by adding "On City Property"**[/QUOTE]
Thanks guys. I just cut/paste from the Free Press online story and tried to keep it short not intending to remove important information.
I agree with you. If Hamtramck approved the LGBTQ pride flags, we might as well approve the the BLM, Swastika, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Klan flags, too. Hamtramck City Council did the right thing. It's democracy doesn't matter if this city went from Catholic-Christian city to Muslim and Hindu majority city. They are following the U.S. Constitution of checks and balances of the amendments.
Thanks guys. I just cut/paste from the Free Press online story and tried to keep it short not intending to remove important information.[/QUOTE]
Yahoo and the Guardian led with headlines with the same incendiary intent,not saying that was your intention but is another example of the media stoking the flames of discourse.
‘A sense of betrayal’: liberal dismay as Muslim-led US city bans Pride flags
https://www.yahoo.com/news/sense-bet...100011203.html
The over 3000 comments mimic those here as a majority,people are quick to bring up democracy,until it does not work in their favor then it reverts to bullying tactics.
I am still trying to wrap my head around the logic of the whole banning of Columbus Day thing,how do you ban one group from celebrating what they believe in but yet allow another to?
The ones wanting to celebrate Columbus Day should have the same rights as those who want to celebrate gay pride month,this practice of removing one groups rights in order to promote another’s is anything but the democracy they are claiming to protect.
Its a level of forced acceptance where systematically people are told how to think and what to believe in and if you do not step in line you will be shunned from society and blacklisted,the process of removing the freedom of individualism.
The government as a body is supposed to stay neutral in all of this,which is what they are doing.
@Richard/
What I think you meant was stoking the flames of discord.
Yahoo and the Guardian led with headlines with the same incendiary intent,not saying that was your intention but is another example of the media stoking the flames of discourse.
‘A sense of betrayal’: liberal dismay as Muslim-led US city bans Pride flags
https://www.yahoo.com/news/sense-bet...100011203.html
The over 3000 comments mimic those here as a majority,people are quick to bring up democracy,until it does not work in their favor then it reverts to bullying tactics.
I am still trying to wrap my head around the logic of the whole banning of Columbus Day thing,how do you ban one group from celebrating what they believe in but yet allow another to?
The ones wanting to celebrate Columbus Day should have the same rights as those who want to celebrate gay pride month,this practice of removing one groups rights in order to promote another’s is anything but the democracy they are claiming to protect.
Its a level of forced acceptance where systematically people are told how to think and what to believe in and if you do not step in line you will be shunned from society and blacklisted,the process of removing the freedom of individualism.
The government as a body is supposed to stay neutral in all of this, which is what they are doing.[/QUOTE]
LGBTQ pride folks can take their measures to the highest court in the nation. But Hamtramck City Council made voted in a democratic decision not to hang a representative sex culture flag in city properties. But LBGTQ Pride flags are allowed in their confines of their homes. Sex culture is not a nation culture. It an entertaining and mostly private moment between their mates. And its not to be discussed and be shown to children until they are ready and beginning to know about the culture of sex as their hormones are pump up. It's better to keep open sex culture in a private areas and not to ruin our society of like being Sodom and Gomorrah.
Agreed, LGBQT is like a religion, and as I say to all religions, Keep it in Your Pants. I'm old enough to remember when people simply practiced religions rather than talking about them. At least this was so north of the Mason-Dixon Line.Quote:
Government as a body is supposed to stay neutral in all of this, which is what they are doing.
Reddit - https://i.redd.it/qr38ruyjk9641.jpg
The ordinance doesn't prevent any displays on private property so merchants and residents can display what they like. I would hope that the rule is enforced evenly so that none but the 3 mentions flags could fly on public buildings. Does the rule apply to the interior of public buildings I wonder? Are employees prevented from such displays in their personal work areas? I trust that the church/state separation issues are also strictly observed.
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2023/06/23/hamtramck-mayor-pan-african-flag/70351354007
So apparently black Pride flags are ok, even though the ordinance excludes “racial” flags. Let’s all just admit that this was explicitly an anti-gay ordinance. Which I’d expect from a Muslim council.
It says/prints it in the article
He told the Free Press on Friday that an exception was made for the flag designed by the late Black nationalist Marcus Garvey because the Juneteenth event was planned long before the resolution passed and organizers compromised with city officials. They flew the flag in a more muted manner than originally intended, taping it to the post of a park pavilion rather than flying it on a march and later a pole, he said. Moving forward, Ghalib said, such displays will not be allowed.
Not sure how much it has to do with being Muslim but as a rule gay people do not burn cities if they do not get their way,but I agree,the city was not obligated to make a compromise and opens the door of what could be grandfathered in or not.
Anyway one looks at it somebody will always find a way to call them Muslim,racist,homophobic,anti Nazi or whatever anybody can think of in order to support their cause.
The best flag material is muslin. Just sayin’.
Government as a body is supposed to stay neutral in all of this, which is what they are doing.[/QUOTE]
Agreed, LGBQT is like a religion, and as I say to all religions, Keep it in Your Pants. I'm old enough to remember when people simply practiced religions rather than talking about them. At least this was so north of the Mason-Dixon Line.
Reddit - https://i.redd.it/qr38ruyjk9641.jpg[/QUOTE]
Hamtramck is not Ferndale!
LGBTQ is not a religion. It's a sex culture, just folks showing off their sexual nature while living their lives. It's pleasure for them and an abomination for others. Even in the eyes of God. One thing people practice sexual Sodomy evolution is it's getting into children telling them that being LGBTQ is cool and ok. However it's not the right time or year to tell a child at any age under 13 about sexual actions until they ready to seek it. LGBTQ culture is counter like being a Hippie and Flowerchildren releasing their self love and self peace to our society, but doesn't fit in to our religious institutions or in our holy books.
"Agreed, LGBQT is like a religion, and as I say to all religions, Keep it in Your Pants."
Oh, FFS! Not even close to a religion, dood.
And to the other misinformed poster -- it's not "sex culture".
Both of these posters present an emotional response to the topic not rooted in fact ... just spewing homophobic opinions presented as "fact".
Definitely a lot like a religion. Hedonism perhaps?
There has always been wicked and deviant behavior, even pre-dating Sodom & Gomorrah, but the recent push to shove it in everyone's faces and down their throats is rather new. Trying to confuse children in schools? Sickening.
And it's not that they just want to do these the things we can't even speak about in a forum, they want to flaunt it in a way that THEY would find totally offensive if straight people or Christians flaunted their beliefs. They don't just want to be left alone, they want to convert the masses.
At the current rate, we'll have Lgbtiqcapgngfnba+? inquisitions in 10 years. Straight people will be called evil oppressors like whites are now.
This is blatantly contrived indignity/hyperbole, courtesy of the far right. Why so eager to invalidate your own cause? It makes no sense.
You're desperately reaching for scenarios that will never occur.
You need an intervention before you harm yourself and others. :eek:
Wow, look who's reaching? Not to worry, I'm not even far left. It's the far left that harms themselves and LOTS of others, and property. Their positions are insane and indefensible, so they must turn to name calling and violence. Lots of violence.
Bravo to Hamtramck City Council for doing the right thing.
So many municipalities have caved to the insanity. Even the president illegally disgraced our nation recently by covering part of the White House with a gay pride flag.
There are people that want to ban flags of states because they have images that portray a negative effect,they ban long established sports team names because they feel it is not representative,some southerners are frowned on when they fly the stars and bars.
So why are people expected to just automatically except or be forced to except a gay pride flag or telling others your cause is more important then theirs.
I have no issues if one wants to fly the rainbow flag on government property,it can fly right next to the stars and bars,the Nazi flag or what ever flag one desires but like I already said,constitution says you treat everybody equally so if somebody wants to fly the rainbow flag on public property,then I can use my constitutional rights and demand that my flag of choice flys right along side of it.
Interesting enough in another city a mayor was ousted for his refusal to allow the pride flag flown at the city court house.
For the ones that keep saying it is not sexual,my ass,not literally so do not get excited,read the reports about the conduct that went on during the weekend marches.
You honestly believe it is cool for 15 naked men to jump into a fountain where children are playing,or naked men to be twerking along the path of a parade where children are while calling these events family oriented ?
Anybody else would be arrested for indecent exposure but now you have people that think they are supposed to be some protected class of people even immune from public morality,Kinda like animals are protected,not all gay people are even like that or the ones I know would never even approve of those actions because they kick the cause back decades.
One would think the goal would not to demand to be treated as special group and be treated like everybody else,when you force acceptance on somebody you gotta be ready to put your big girl panties on and be prepared for the pushback.
Its okay to be a stranger and gay and be around children naked,if you are not gay that’s 10 years in prison and you are considered a pervert for life.
Thats a load of crap - just because you are gay you no longer are sexual or able to think sexual thoughts or it is okay for adults to be naked in front of children outside of a nudist colony where everybody is like minded.
It makes you wonder if the gay couples that adopt children are acting the same way inside of the home,twerking naked in front of them and doing the same things in that they are doing in public that anybody else would be arrested for.
Maybe it is something CPS should be looking into,because if there is no morality in the streets,one can only imagine what is happening in the home.
What is the motive behind all of this recent push to force children into the adult world ? It’s almost like people are trying to set them up for marriage at age 12 again,maybe that is really the end goal,to remove the legalities of child molestation by conditioning the children and society into thinking it is all okay because it is just human nature and not a sickness or mental illness.
I feel bad for the women,they have been advocating for decades,with my support,in order to walk around topless,they cannot without being arrested,but call yourself a gay man and it is perfectly okay to walk around totally naked in public,if I identified as a women I would be pissed off because once again it is proven to truly be a man’s world,kinda sorta,and once again women are cast aside.
Serious question to the gay community,if you are allowed to fly the rainbow flag on public property,would you be opposed to me flying the stars n bars along side of it ? Or the Nazi flag,or the hell’s angels flag,or even a strippers G string that I say identifies as a flag.
If you have an issue with that,then you do not deserve to be able to fly the rainbow flag on public property,because you are no more special then I am,is that not the stated goal ? To be accepted and treated equally?
The triggered, straight, white guy outrage bubble is alive and well here. Here is a thought, befriend an LGBTQ+ individual, or better yet a bunch, and maybe you will actually look at them as human, understand their issues and eventually realize that right wing media is riling you up just as you claim the "leftist" media does on every other issue.
If Christians flaunted their beliefs? My god you're an oblivious fool. Christianity has injected itself in every aspect of American life but I guess the court ruling on abortion rights based on religious grounds is subtle while a flag at the white house is "shoving it down our throats."
It IS a religion now.
They used to falsely claim they just wanted to be left alone. Later they falsely claimed they wanted equal rights. Then the claim was they wanted to be respected. Now it's that they want to indoctrinate everyone else's children.
The LGBT movement now has religion status, and therefore does not belong on a flagpole of government property.
"We're here, we're queer, we're coming for your children." Chant
[Warning, like most everything from these groups, this may not be safe for work.]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NXNKnT28Kc
a lot of you are showing your asses on this topic and it's pretty embarrassing. don't forget there are queer people on this forum who share your interest in watching and chronicling detroit's evolution.
so before you start parroting tucker and candace about how we're and liars and cultists and child groomers – and that one's particularly disgusting and dangerous – maybe like, actually try befriending a single queer person. make an effort to understand that we're not some villainous cabal out to destroy society, we're all literally just trying to make our way in a world full of people who still want us erased or dead. each one of you spitting this fearmongering propaganda, who go out of your way to make it seem more rational to hate us, are another reason to fly the pride colors.
also, that "coming for your children" chant video was demonstrably doctored, it was broken down and explained countless times on twitter but congrats on falling for more disinformation.
Easy now. No one here inferred hate. You just imagined that.
People simply not wanting to be indoctrinated does not equal hate. Not everyone has to do what you do.
Not wanting our children indoctrinated [which is definitely happening across the country, with drag queens in children's classrooms, etc] is different than hate.
Not everyone who is different than you hates you.
Also, you're saying that the Ny Post, Daily Mail, Newsweek, Pink News, Snopes, etc are all wrong? https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ch...g-chant-video/
easy now. reread a little. i never said you are hating, i said when people like yourselves parrot propaganda disingenuously aimed at creating fear around harming children, that's fuel for people more dispositioned toward violence than yourself. you might not feel it's hatred, but you might want to take stock of the people who share your enthusiasm for smearing us, and how much hatred and penchant for violence there is in those ranks.
and don't tell me what i "imagined" when it takes you five seconds on google to see countless examples of real cold-blooded violence against lgbt people in this country. the hate is real, and when you join the chorus with rubbish like this doctored video designed to scare people who have never had a single conversation with a queer person, you're participating.
Skipping the usual suspects' rants and raves .....
My personal opinion is that the only fags to be flown on any government property at any level should be official government flags, national, state, county or municipality, and Veterans/POW/MIA . No statement flags of any kind, no matter the cause or reason.
The POW/MIA flag is a special interest flag he way Memorial Day and Veteran's Day are special interest days.
Showing disrespect for any of them should be grounds for shame.
You are also parroting propaganda,claiming others view points are influenced by outside sources,so the very freedoms you seek to achieve you wish to deny others of.
The freedom of independent thought.
There is also an element of grouping everybody into a singular category.
My X wife is lesbian,I lived in Orlando where 3/4 of Disneys employees and top staff are gay and there was more gay clubs per square mile then straight clubs.
There are radical elements on both sides but you do not get to stoke the flames and just step back while pretending to be innocent.
This discussion is a prime example of that along with the ruckus over the issue.
The crux of the matter was about any other flag being flown on government property other then what was established.
It was the gay community or instigators that turned it into an attack on gays because the rainbow flag was not allowed.
It had zero to do with being gay but the outrage came about because people made the decision not to allow any special groups to fly the flag,so the gay community stood up and said but we are special and our flag deserves more credibility or credence over anybody else’s.
Do you see a BLM flag being flown in government property? They would like to fly their flag.
Its the attitudes that take a symbol of solidarity and turns them into symbols of hate then it gets flipped around to pull any card from the stack in defense.
If one is saying peoples thoughts and actions are influenced or manipulated by outside sources and media against gays ,it could also be argued that when it comes to young children their thoughts and actions could also be influenced and manipulated by outside sources and media for the benefit of the gay movement.
So you are recognizing that influencing and conditioning is a real thing and possible.
Under the constitution as a U.S. citizen you are guaranteed to be treated equally gay or not.
The disconnect comes in when children are involved,it becomes a societal issue where children are to young and not mentally capable or mature enough to process things,so there is an element of forced processing,they will decide on their one and should be allowed to decide on their own when they feel it is comfortable and can process it.
As adults it is our job to give them that space and time,just leave them out of the equation,let them be kids,they will have plenty of time to figure out what path they want to take.
Is it though? Religious extremists of any stripe have the same tendencies to overreact to anything that conflicts with their narrow world view. Just look at Rocket and Dick. Disagree with their conservative views and you’re a commie or fascist. Disagree with a christian world view and it’s you who is indoctrinating but not the other way around. It’s no different than a Muslim city council banning pride flags.
if god’s on our side who’s against us?
You apparently do not realize that you are accusing others of doing the exact same thing you are.
A Muslim city council did not ban pride flags,it made the decision that no flags would be flown outside of what was approved.
Pride flag supporters took that and ran with it as a personal attack because they think they should be a protected class and an exception to the established rule.
That’s it nothing more and nothing less.
Commies,fascist’s and socialists have zero place in a democratic society let alone a republic.
They are allowed to exist because they have the same protections that they oppose,guess what they also cannot fly their little commie or socialist flags on government property either.
For people that push inclusivity,they sure seem to go out of their way to remain exclusive.
You are no different towards the ones you oppose because the first thing you do out the gate is call them names or reach into the standard issue bag of cards and labels to pull out.
As much as people hate it,this country was founded on the freedom of religion and there is no law that says you have to agree with everybody and there should be no distinction between a Christian holding on to their values and a gay person holding on to their values.
But this is not about being Christian or gay,it’s about a decision to remain neutral when it comes to flags on government property and in response a bunch of immature adults stomping their feet in a temper tantrum demanding recognition like somebody that has low self esteem.
Nobody brought the anti gay or attack on gays into this but the rainbow community,they created a situation that did not exist and as par to the course tried to flip it around like it was everybody else’s fault.
Its not that complicated and there is zero middle ground,either everybody gets to display their flag of representation on government property or nobody does.
There is zero anti anybody or anything involved it does not even play a role in it.
Oops I triggered Dick.
Actually I prefer re-runs of the Andy Griffith show,so many people remind me of Barney Fife.
I will have to rely on your experiences of watching the apprentice,because I have never watched it,from what I see is one never really lost their powers because there still seems to be a lot that deem him a threat so much they allow him he to still live in their heads 24/7 making sure he starts relevant.
Its kinda interesting though,take a show like Archie Bunker or the Jeffersons and play them mainstream today and heads will explode
It seems like people were more tolerant back then with a live and let live attitude on some things while compulsive excessive on other things,nothing really changes does it decade after decade there is always something to get people fired up,if not then somebody will think of something.
Missing the days of the queens rule EH?
parliamentary assemblies? It could be worse at least it did not take us until 1995 to figure out the Italian mafia was connected to the Italians
Canada does not have a stellar history of being all inclusive even more so when it comes to Jews and indigenous people even to this day I guess unwillingness to except has been a part of culture.
In the U.S. homosexuality for the most part is excepted.
In Arab countries they are jailed,shot or beat with rubber hoses in order to drive the gayness out of them.
African Americans for the most part are integrated into society.
Parts of Africa they are still being sold as slaves today.
Women can walk about in freedom and mingle with the men folk
In some countries they are required to cover the faces,walk paces behind their husbands and it is okay to beat them if they step out of line.
Children can attend school have excess to food and are protected
In other parts of the world they are forced into factories or deep into mines to work 18 hours a day and do not have excess to schools and food.
But yet people are quick to voice their distaste about this country and how oppressive it is and everybody hates everybody.
I am thinking you need to access a dikshenerry real quick.
Welp, I guess you can't want the United States to improve on issues because we have it better than other countries. Glad that was settled.
I think the most telling of your hilarious points is that you mention kids have access to food in schools and are protected. Meanwhile 12% of kids are food insecure in the country, which doubles if you are one of those "integrated" African Americans, meaning that on weekends and during break many children are going to bed hungry. Then you know, the weekly school shootings we have... I guess we have different ideas on what "protected" means. But at least they aren't working long shifts in factories. They should be grateful.
That’s what you get for thinking nucky.
Interesting how this same issue has popped up in several cities in Canada.
Also interesting is all of these HOA places,lots of them in Florida established by northerners who like to control every aspect of peoples life also do not allow rainbow flags to be flown,people have taken them to court because not even the American flag was not allowed and won.
But yet nobody has ever sued a HOA for the ability to fly a rainbow flag,nobody has called HOA gay haters because they do not allow the flags.
Because it is excepted that because it is a HOA it has rules to follow Kinda No different then in government property,why the two sets of standards?
You are not even posting a valid rebuttal.
Its not complicated,if the rainbow flag was allowed to fly at city hall would you oppose also allowing the confederate flag,the Star of David,the Muslim flag,the Nazi flag?
You cannot demand to be treated equally while denying others the same equality.
I understand that is a difficult concept to understand for commies and socialists because they are all about one person choosing who gets what rights to have and how individuals are to be treated.
In this country everybody is equal under the constitution and to be treated equal,so you cannot demand to be treated different then anybody else.
If the city hall flys the rainbow flag and I ask them if I can also fly the confederate flag and they say no.
I can get one of your billboard lawyers and sue them for violating my constitutional rights.
They may be Muslim immigrants but they sure seem to know how to follow the constitution a lot better then non immigrants.
If people learned what rights and protections they have under the constitution we would not be having 1/2 the issues we are having in this country,with race and policing and peoples rights,if you just read and understand that constitution there would be no need to be jumping up and down screaming that you are implementing social justice and changing the country.
All of that is already spelled out,it’s just that people are trying to make it up as they go along.
Forget about the federal level,how many locals are aware of the Michigan civil rights amendment that was passed March 16 2023 concerning the LGBYQ community?
That's not interesting.
Yes. Everyone left of you is a commie and socialist, therefore you can dismiss. I just saw a clip of how Trump wants to ban communists and socialists from entering the country, yet it is the left that are authoritarian....
I know you like comparing the pride flag to that of the nazi flag, but do you think there is any difference being that it is a group that has in the past been discriminated against by the government? Comparing symbols of hate in which millions died under, to a flag of a discriminated group whose flag symbolizes equality is pretty asinine. But hey, they got gay marriage a few years ago so they can deal with the bigotry since they aren't being beheaded.
Your still not making sense,it does not matter what trump or Biden or Joe blow wants,even you want me to shut up and go away,but once again you and them all still have to follow that pesky constitution.
People can say what ever they want,it’s on you to filter out the white noise and understand the difference between saying and having the actual ability to carry it out is the difference between night and day.
Your local politicians reminded us every day how they care about you and are looking out for your best interests and they cannot even swing a simple little supermarket or discuss transit issues,but yet vow to change society into a better place.
Thats what politicians do,they talk out of their rear ends,actions speak louder then words.
In your rebuttal you explain the reasons you personally oppose other symbols being displayed,what makes your reason more valid then somebody else opposing your choice of symbols?
1920 Hitler was looking for a flag design it’s requirements were that it had to be a “Symbol of our own struggle” .
You keep mentioning equality as your basis,how exactly do you achieve equality when you turn right around and want to be the one who decides who is allowed to be deemed equal.
Your reasons are no more valid then the ones you oppose,equality is a 2 headed coin,you have to except those that you oppose have the same level of equality that you do,otherwise you will never achieve it.
You do not have to like it or even agree with it,but you do have to respect it.
Otherwise you are not seeking equality,you are just looking to pick and choose who receives it according to a level of standards that you personally set.
As far as commies and socialists,if it walks like a duck,talks like a duck and acts like a duck it is a duck.
Ducks do not have the capability of identifying as a horse or a chicken,it will always be a duck.
So it holds as an example.
I think a lot of the issues arise from confusion,if somebody is gay they know they are gay and they know what they want and for the most part are comfortable with that,but now all of these other factions that are living in a state of confusion are attaching themselves under the umbrella of the gay community,that’s the ones that are creating all of the ruckus.
I think as a majority Americans could really care less if somebody is gay or not,as far as hatred towards the gays,welcome to the club,people hate on Jews,Italians,Polish,Germans,Asians,Canadians,nort herners,southerners,Catholic,Lutherans the list is endless,so suck it up.
The reality of it is it’s the straight female that still faces the highest level of inequality when it comes to sports,workplace and the corporate world so at what level of inequality is the base gay community facing?
LGBTQ folks is not a religion, its a sex cult, like NXIUM. Rising pass the Church of Scientology. They are modern Hippies and Flowerchildren ready to play with themselves in public.
They are ready to get out of their closets and fight for their rights all over the world. They will keep their eyes on the prize to sodomize the world. Even they to twist government and destroy traditional religious family values to do it. Harvey Milk did it all they way to Sen. Haley Stevens. But we will see their rainbows can do against the Christian Crosses, Moon and Star and Six Pointed Star.
How did Christians get into this discussion? The guys the voters of Hamtramck elected weren't Christian but they made a reasonable law basically only allowing government flags on government premises. Private businesses and individuals in Hamtramck can still display the flags of their choice. The US and State flags, unlike e.g. rainbow or Trump flags, unite everyone in the community.
For all the "Don't Say Gay" DeSantis lovers... ;)
Even folks of Y.M.C.A. love their song, it become their national anthem.
At least Hamtramck has its polka pride.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSJAYcnDaGQ
Is banning Nazi Swastika Flags on government property an attack on Nazis?
Is banning Christian, Jewish, Muslims and other religions flags on government property is an attack on religion?
Those flags has nothing to do with America. Hamtramck City Council is following the first amendment right of the U.S. Constitution. Governments are not allow to pass laws based on religion, familiar culture or any freedom of speech. They only allow with other state and federal laws that is implied in the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights. The LGBTQ Pride Flags does not represent America. It's an international sexual revolutionary cause to let people show their Sodomistic nature to everyone even to children. They are not a nation just a sex cult to poke fun against higher authority. And thanks to U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Governance of our laws and human rights in the United States rest upon the people's decision of our democracy. Even through some folks don't like it. At least our U.S. Constitution promotes LGBTQ Pride Flags and showing their sexual nature is allowed in America. So get used to it Americans! This is our free country.
Did the Hamtramck flag policy extend to its school district or does it just apply to Hamtramck's government buildings? I would think that school districts have their own governance and set their own policies. However, schools might be considered municipal buildings.
School boards across the Country are setting their own policies on flags. Some school boards are limiting which flags are displayed on flagpoles and even in classrooms. Others school boards are authorizing the display of rainbow flags. Teachers unions are pushing for pride flags. The CA teachers union is threatening to sue school districts that limit the display of pride flags. Meanwhile, California's K-12 schools rank 38th. among the states.
I congratulate the Hamtramck City Council and Mayor for a prudent decision keeping its government focus on roads and whatever else governments do. I hope this extends or will be extended to schools.
Aside: I do have a dog in this fight. Two of my grandchildren attend a public school that had a pride flag flying over it the entire month of June. I think the older seventh grade grandson sort of understands the politics of this. He is very aware that his mother and her Asian friends are shocked at the low academic expectations at area schools. The pride flag is emblematic that merit is not prioritized here.
comparing queer people to nazis because we also have a flag? implying the pride flag is somehow deprioritizing school achievement? where in the hell are you people getting this garbage? i've been avoiding this thread for a reason, but i'm speechless. yall are cruel-spirited and frankly disgusting.
this isn't discourse or even conversation, this is just a bunch of bitter boomers seething from within their ignorant bubble. to everyone spouting this shit, i look forward to the day you're all gone from this earth and we can finally repairing the damage you've done.
until then, enjoy your petty remaining time. i'll find somewhere less filled with hateful people to talk about what's happening in the city of detroit.
Please don't lump all boomers in with the ones you are referring to on here. I am mid boomer and I don't believe any of the crap 3 or 4 of these people are spouting nor do I know if more than 2 of them are actually boomers. I have many friends my age who promote Pride, BLM, Trans rights, gay marriage and a multitude of other things as well as being ashamed of the people our age who act as if they never lived through Equal Rights, the anti Vietnam era and don't trust anyone over thirty. I believe people are people and deserve to be treated equally in all ways.
It really should be no surprise that as something as sensitive as human sexuality and the blowhorn and flaunting of sexology and sex so obvious in the public sphere right now would receive a reactionary response. As someone who considers himself G, I've noticed since probably 2015 and the rise of the heightened visibility of transgender persons, that the LGBTQ+ community has completely bought into a leftist groupthink attitude and unbridled religiosity that MUST be accepted and affirmed by all or else. This is what makes it a cult and as much as the LGBTQ is critical of religious "indoctrination" and hate, they don't see the beam sticking out of their own eye. It's a pretty self-centered view to think that everyone has to accept and affirm me, when nothing of the sort has ever been guaranteed in life.
A lot of it has to do with forces outside of a movement,that use the movement in order to encourage social unrest to fit their own objectives.
It’s happening in France right now,the woman’s movement and BLM hit their peak in 2016 and carried into 2020 same with BLM.
So what happened ? Women did not care about a movement until 2016 then in 2020 all of the sudden they had everything and just shut up and sat down ? Same with BLM.
People are using movements as pawns in a bigger game.
You cannot be mainstream woman,man,gay,lesbian,African American or anybody anymore,you have to either step into the radicalization of it or you are osterized.
People have that right to make a choice,but if you have somebody within the group saying that you have to agree with the whole package or you are not who you want to be,so you are no longer an individual and the group dictates how you will think and act,like one big part of a collective.
Thats really what it boils down to,the systematic conditioning of people to act and think like we are all one.
I agree,just because one is gay it does not meen that by default they have to like or support everybody else that is gay no matter what form they are in.If it is really about individuality.
Its the commies and socialists sticking their grubby little paws into every aspect of society,the real meaning of the causes that they hijack really has no role in it,it’s all about divide and conquer and using causes as Trojan horses in order to keep people at each other’s throats.
If you do not comply to the group think,one way or another they will look for ways to destroy you and make you an outcast.
It works in places like China and Cuba but as Americans it is in our DNA not to be in situations where we are forced to take on views that we do not believe in.
I do not care if somebody wants to be a trans,in this country they have that right of freedom to choose,I do not have to agree with it and the line gets crossed when you try to force me to agree with it.
It really has nothing to do with boomers,if that was the case then the country went to hell during WW2,so it was actually the Germans fault.
If they had not started the war,women would have never entered the work place like they did,if they stayed home cooking and cleaning and spending the time to raise families right we would not be in the mess we are in now.
And everybody would be living in a constant state of a Little House on the Prairie fantasy.
Sometimes I think the Amish are the smart ones,life does not get anymore simple then that.
I have to admit,if I was gay,black or a woman I would be glad that I was so in America,because as rough as people make it out to be,there are still countries where slaves are still being sold,gays are shot or in prison and women do not even rate on any scale.
And you cannot blame it on the white man,because white men have zero to do with anything in those countries.
Wow!
Sooo many religious rightwing nuts jobs on this board and sooooo little time.
FLMAO!!
In post #81, I asked, "Did the Hamtramck flag policy extend to its school district or does it just apply to Hamtramck's government buildings?" Eliciting no reply, at least related to my question, I Googled something to the effect, "are schools city property?" My oracle responded,
"Public property refers to property owned by the government [[or its agency), rather than by a private individual or a company. It belongs to the public at large. Examples include many parks, streets, sidewalks, libraries, schools, playgrounds that are used regularly by the general public.'
The language of the Hamtramck flag ordinance reads in part,
"The City of Hamtramck does not allow any religious, ethnic, racial, political, or sexual orientation group flags to be flown on the City's public properties, and that only, the American flag, the flag of the State of Michigan, the Hamtramck Flag, the Prisoner of War flag on City property."
Unless there is more to it, that means that Hamtramck schools can't fly anything but those four flags either because the schools too are public city property if they are owned byowned by the City. If so, this ordinance is much broader than the way it has been reported. However, there may be a loophole. The word 'flown' is used in the ordnance. So if a teacher wanted to affix flag decals on their whiteboard or the window, then technicaly, they would not be out of compliance.
They say it is not happening but it is,I have a friend who’s daughter is in high school,she tells me that you are not considered “cool” unless you slept with a member of the same sex,with some kind of proof.
In the 70s we had a sex education class,okay so you include same sex in that class and then let it be.
I just glad my granddaughters went to a charter school where everybody was treated equally and there were no special groups.
Its a bit hypocritical to preach inclusivity while targeting people that do not which to be included.
A lot of it also diverting from the real issues schools face,our school may have an F rating when it comes to basic educational needs but at least they are well aware of social issues that they cannot even comprehend in the first place.
France was arresting 11-12-13 year old kids that were out burning buildings and cars.
It you teach kids to be in a constant state of confusion it’s easy to control them in the future as adults.
I think it is because most people do not know how schools actually operate.
I can say in Florida anyways,the public school system is a hybrid of sorts,they are their own governing authority,they do not even need permission or city planning or permits to even build a new school.
They have state and federal guidelines they have to follow concerning education standards and students rights as citizens.
But at the end of the day they receive money from the state government and local taxpayers,so like when you see the governor of Florida telling schools to comply,he cannot actually force them to,he can gain public support so the parents put pressure on the school board for change or he can threaten to withhold funds and sense as a rule school board administrators like to dictate their own salary and the children are a commodity that is used to collect that salary you get their attention when you hit them in the pocket book.
It is being handled differently across the country and ACLU has won a few cases and the Supreme Court ruled that a Christian group in Ohio had a right to fly their flag on public property.
In other cities kids have walked off of school grounds in protest for not flying the flag,it has never been about changing the system by challenging it in the courts,it has always been allow us to be excepted or die.
Since school districts operate as an independent body,you may have one district be fine with flying the flag while the next one may not be.
Florida is pushing legislation in order to provide a definition of where flags may be flown on public property to include schools.
The only requirement now is the United States flag be flown in every class room and every building and the state flag be flown in at least one building.
But in the south how is opposition to flying the pride flag in schools any different then the ones who wish to see the confederate flag being flown?
People destroyed statutes and set off protests that burned cities because they did not like what that symbol represented but yet turn right around and demand that everybody except the symbol that they have chosen.
So both sides dig their feet in deeper.
I do not think it is an issue of people hating on the rainbow flag,even though that is the canned response,but where does it all end?
If you want to fly the rainbow flag in school,fine as long as every other group has the same right to fly their flag of support including white supremacy and Nazis.
Once again you cannot claim inclusion when you seek to exclude those who you do not support.
So one may hate that Nazi just as much as that Nazi hates your gayness,but in this country,no matter what everybody is equal,when you start picking and choosing who is equal and who is not based on wheather you agree with the way they live their life or who they worship or anything else then we are no longer a country of freedom.
And that is really what people seek to eliminate and control,those freedoms.
As a Republic we are bound by the constitution,in that constitution we are afforded rights to practice democracy at the state and local level.
That was designed that way to give the power to the people and not the federal government,if you do not like something you have the right to practice democracy and use that system to implement change.
The one right you do not have is the ability to demand a change and force people to comply to that outside of the parameters set out by the laws of our country.
You also do not have the right to say your cause is more important or deserves priority over everybody else.
When you step outside of those parameters and try to force others to comply you are going to get push back and have to expect a deeper hatred towards your cause.
The constitution demands that all U.S. citizens be treated equally,it’s peoples failure to understand that is what creates all of the turmoil in this country.
I does not give us room to pick and choose who we may treat equally or who we may not.
That is the biggest failure in the school system of today,they are not teaching children what protections they have under the constitution and how to use the system to implement change.
They are teaching them to lash out and normalizing that as a standard for systematic change,then shed a tear when there is a school shooting when a child is doing exactly what they taught them to do.
Lowell, can you put some yellow safety tape around this thread please?
I have a whole roll of yellow crime scene tape if necessary.
{We used it to tape off a marketing guy's office as a prank when he got into some minor trouble. He fell for it. He thought it was serious. LOL! Man, was that guy worried.}
Part of a healthy discussion is the ability to look at all sides of a discussion,weather you agree with it or not is not a requirement.
To seek a discussion that only discusses what you want to hear does not seem very inclusive to me anyways even more so when the subject is centered around that very thing.
I wasn't going to waste anymore of my time trying to explain logic to you, since you don't seem to want to hear it... but here it goes... :o
ANECDOTAL FALLACY...
An anecdotal or informal fallacy... where personal experience or a singular example is used to support an argument or position instead of compelling evidence. People often gravitate towards using their own experiences or those of people around them as evidence in arguments. It's natural to do so as citing scientific evidence to craft a good argument takes effort and most of us are lazy thinkers and opt for the quicker and easier System's 1 thinking versus the required metacognition of System's 2 thinking.
You are wasting your time after saying you were not going to waste your time and to top it off border line animal abuse by continuing to beat a dead horse.
Come up with a fancy term for that
If you get hit by a train,you can personally say it hurts so who is anybody else to turn around and tell you it does not because they have a fancy explanation as to why it does not,it does not dispel the fact that it still hurt.
Try it and see if your personal experience is any different if I tell you that it is all in your mind and then try and convince you that it is not logical to say it hurt when common sense would dictate that it would hurt like hell.
Not that I am advocating that you jump in front of a train to see if it actually applies in reality but most that are book smart seem to lack basic common sense when it comes to reasoning or common sense,if it is not there printed out for them in the proper format and with proper spelling and sentence structure they become lost in the real world.
You should put down the book sometimes and you may discover there is a whole nuther world out there that you never knew existed.
Don’t be scared,there may even be groups out there that offer a 5 step program that will help you integrate into the real world and offer support so you are not alone,I have faith in you and it is not really your fault that you have been systematically conditioned to think that way,but if you really want to you can overcome this obstacle,break those bonds of mental entrapment and start living life.
I will be here for you as an ear to listen if you have a weak moment on your road to recovery:)
I do not view responding to you or anybody else as wasting my time,because your thoughts,no matter how far out in left field I may feel they are,are important to you otherwise you would not have taken the time to post them and who am I to say my thoughts are more important then yours. I do not have to agree with them,I just have to respect that you have the same right as I do to have them.
If we all thought the same we would be nothing but a machine reading from a preprogrammed script that dictates how we think and not as individuals,then that script would come up with all sorts of fancy definitions as to why we should not think as individuals.
That is what makes us human,the ability to think,act and respond as individuals.
Of course if one is a socialist or comme then,yea,the objective would be to have everybody of one mind,because it makes it easy to control them.
And one always has to take into consideration that there are those who seek that and will look for ways to make you conform to a standard of a singular mind or look for ways to justify in their mind that you are not a good person because you do not fall into lockstep with that.
Tough world out there,always have to be looking at actual motives,the book teaches you black and white and not to deviate from those parameters,but we live in a grey world and things are not always black and white.