Infrastructure Fire Causes Natural Gas Supply Issue

Update: Voluntary Natural Gas Reduced Use Request Lifted at the end of 1/31/2019


Original Post:

An email from Consumers Energy I just received:

Public Call to Voluntarily Reduce Gas Use

As a result of an unexpected incident at a Gas Compressor station this morning in Southeast Michigan, we are asking customers to temporarily reduce gas usage over the next 24-48 hours. This step, taken out of an abundance of caution will help keep Michigan residents and businesses warm during this cold spell.

In addition to voluntary reductions requested of residential and small commercial customers, industrial and large commercial customers have been required to curtail their gas usage except for levels necessary for plant protection and for services essential for public health and safety which cannot be covered by an alternate fuel.

WHAT HAPPENED

A fire involving equipment at Consumers Energy’s Ray Natural Gas Compressor Station occurred in Macomb County at 10:33 a.m. today. The fire is out and there were no injuries. The cause of the fire is under investigation. All gas flow from the compressor station has been shut in until safety and damage assessments can be completed. Consumers Energy is activating natural gas peaking storage fields in Northville and St. Clair to help deliver natural gas to our customers as we experience this unusually cold weather.

WHAT YOU CAN DO TO HELP

• LOOK AT THERMOSTAT SETTINGS: Save energy while staying warm by setting your heat to a lower temperature. Use your programmable thermostat to set your heat at 65 degrees, as your circumstances permit.
  
  
• SEAL & SHUT WINDOWS AND DOORS: Check for leaks in your windows and doors by feeling around for cool air. Also, please ensure all windows and doors are closed tightly.
  

This is one of many steps we are putting into place to keep gas flowing reliably and safely through Michigan and expect this to be resolved within the next 24-48 hours.

As Michiganders, we know that we’re all in this together. We appreciate your cooperation and patience during this time.

For more information or tips, visit: ConsumersEnergy.com/coldweather.

Thank you!

Freep article: https://www.freep.com/story/weather/...ex/2724017002/

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In the midst of a polar vortex that has brought record-breaking low temperatures to Michigan, Consumers Energy has called for customers to voluntarily reduce their natural gas usage and DTE Energy is asking customers to reduce electricity usage. And the Michigan PUblic Service Commission has ordered a suspension of all utility shutoffs during the cold spell, according to a news release from the Lansing regulators.
Both of Michigan's two biggest utilities suggest turning thermostats down. Here's why:
Consumers Energy called for customers to voluntarily reduce their natural gas usage due to a fire on Wednesday and DTE Energy asked customers to reduce their electric usage.
Consumers Energy executives said that a fire at the Ray Township Natural Gas Compressor Station in Macomb County broke out around 10:33 a.m. The fire was quickly brought under control, with no injuries, but now the utility is scrambling to supply enough gas from reserve storage areas in Wayne and St. Clair counties, officials said.

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REALLY bad timing. Couldn't be worse. This could easily devolve into a scandal.

Will there be a consequential death count? How does this disaster unfold if the victims can't conserve enough gas?

Do we all migrate to our car heaters as a last resort?

Thunderdome: Plan?! There ain't no plan!!!

Naw,everybody has an emergency heat loss plan B,right?

I read an article a few days back where a couple of guys visiting from Florida to Michigan got stuck and froze to death,which kinda had me wondering.

When I was growing up in Minnesota,I remember a few winters where -50 was not uncommon,we used to have an emergency kit in the trunk of the car,blankets,emergency heaters,flare kit etc.

It did not take up much space,do people still do that? Like,prepare for what might happen just in case?

Did anyone else receive an emergency alert for this on their phone? I had one come through about a half hour ago similar to and Amber Alert.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Richard

Naw,everybody has an emergency heat loss plan B,right?

I read an article a few days back where a couple of guys visiting from Florida to Michigan got stuck and froze to death,which kinda had me wondering.

When I was growing up in Minnesota,I remember a few winters where -50 was not uncommon,we used to have an emergency kit in the trunk of the car,blankets,emergency heaters,flare kit etc.

It did not take up much space,do people still do that? Like,prepare for what might happen just in case?

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For most people in urban/suburban areas cell phones have eliminated the need for such on the road preparedness. I do still pack a flashlight, sand, and sometimes a shovel when the weather is really bad. If I'm heading Up North or elsewhere where service may be spotty, I'll carry more.

The utility is worried about its stock price and dividend payouts
--- NOT your well being or comfort.

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Originally Posted by Johnnny5

Did anyone else receive an emergency alert for this on their phone? I had one come through about a half hour ago similar to and Amber Alert.

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Got mine, turned my thermostat down.
Attachment 37471

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Originally Posted by O3H

The utility is worried about its stock price and dividend payouts
--- NOT your well being or comfort.

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I fail to see where cutting back on consumption of their product helps their bottom line, stock price or dividend pay out.

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Originally Posted by Lowell

Got mine, turned my thermostat down.
Attachment 37471

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I did the same, now I'm hiding under two blankets on the couch. I'm definetly not looking forward to waking up to cold house on the coldest day of the year!

What year is this?? Last I checked, it's 2019, not 1959. Are we in a 3rd world country?? Apparently. God...the USA is so screwed. Can't even meet the demands of ordinary citizens. DTE Energy & Consumers Energy [[Grand Rapids, MI) should be EMBARRASED to put this crap out.




FYI - I just turned my thermostat up to 85. Screw these companies. Gouging the public, and then when the chips are down, asking us to save their hide. No bueno

We should ALL get refunds for the entire month of January.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lowell

I fail to see where cutting back on consumption of their product helps their bottom line, stock price or dividend pay out.

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In defense of O3H, I think he was referring to them minimizing their loses by making sure their bad problem doesn't get worse, which would be a much bigger hit to their bottom line than a brief/temporary drop in consumption.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by djtomt

What year is this?? Last I checked, it's 2019, not 1959. Are we in a 3rd world country?? Apparently. God...the USA is so screwed. Can't even meet the demands of ordinary citizens. DTE Energy & Consumers Energy [[Grand Rapids, MI) should be EMBARRASED to put this crap out.




FYI - I just turned my thermostat up to 85. Screw these companies. Gouging the public, and then when the chips are down, asking us to save their hide. No bueno

We should ALL get refunds for the entire month of January.

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It is very odd that this is the third person I have seen react like this.

You're not hurting consumers with non-compliance, you are just being selfish.

When the gas or electricity grid goes off line those same people will continue to complain and say "this shouldn't happen." So much for being a good neighbor in 2019.

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Originally Posted by djtomt

FYI - I just turned my thermostat up to 85. Screw these companies. Gouging the public,

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You're only gouging your own wallet.

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Originally Posted by 48307

It is very odd that this is the third person I have seen react like this.

You're not hurting consumers with non-compliance, you are just being selfish.

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Make that 4. This is a growing trend by business and government to keep passing incompetency costs down to the consumer. Problems @ the refinery? Spike the gasoline prices. [[don't forget "Summer Blend" and "Winter Blend") Jack up gasoline tax, move it from road repair to the General Fund, create Social Programs and bike lanes. Potholes be damned. Failed policies in Iraq, Afghanistan, and other countries? Take in the refugees and pass the medical, shelter, food, education, and legal costs on to the consumer. [[don't worry, they'll keep us in office, no ID required) Wait until the rolling brown outs hit, the US will become just like Puerto Rico. Just make sure that bottom line stays even keel. I wouldn't worry too much about getting texts in the middle of the night. Once all the "Smart Meters" are in place, they'll just dial it down for you.

I did - on my mobile. I dialed down a bit, but have a cold on top of everything. I don't want to end up at the hospital. Then I can't pay my DTE bill which would be a bigger problem to their and my bottom line.

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Originally Posted by Johnnny5

Did anyone else receive an emergency alert for this on their phone? I had one come through about a half hour ago similar to and Amber Alert.

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Yep, good times ahead. Course the folks dictating/ mandating will have all the heat, AC, big foot-print gas guzzeling homes, private jets, boats, etc. they desire. And no, they'll NOT all be the right-wing batch either.

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Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Once all the "Smart Meters" are in place, they'll just dial it down for you.

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Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Make that 4. This is a growing trend by business and government to keep passing incompetency costs down to the consumer. Problems @ the refinery? Spike the gasoline prices. [[don't forget "Summer Blend" and "Winter Blend") Jack up gasoline tax, move it from road repair to the General Fund, create Social Programs and bike lanes. Potholes be damned. Failed policies in Iraq, Afghanistan, and other countries? Take in the refugees and pass the medical, shelter, food, education, and legal costs on to the consumer. [[don't worry, they'll keep us in office, no ID required) Wait until the rolling brown outs hit, the US will become just like Puerto Rico. Just make sure that bottom line stays even keel. I wouldn't worry too much about getting texts in the middle of the night. Once all the "Smart Meters" are in place, they'll just dial it down for you.

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Don't get me wrong, I'm upset that a single fire at a single facility can have this impact.

However, they're not passing the "costs" down to us, they're asking us to reduce usage to ensure supply. Some folks, like I said three so far, have responded by saying they're going to increase usage as an FU to Consumers.

My point is that increased usage doesn't have a negative impact on Consumers Energy, but it instead contributes to a shortage that could impact critical things like hospitals, old folks homes, etc...

It's perfectly fine to be critical of Consumers, but if you purposely increase usage in response to a public call to decrease usage, you're just an asshole.

^^^ Point well taken. I'm glad to hear that many manufacturers/ factories are dialing down which as big foot print users should help reducing the strain!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by djtomt

What year is this?? Last I checked, it's 2019, not 1959. Are we in a 3rd world country?? Apparently. God...the USA is so screwed. Can't even meet the demands of ordinary citizens. DTE Energy & Consumers Energy [[Grand Rapids, MI) should be EMBARRASED to put this crap out.




FYI - I just turned my thermostat up to 85. Screw these companies. Gouging the public, and then when the chips are down, asking us to save their hide. No bueno

We should ALL get refunds for the entire month of January.

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I hope you are joking about turning up the thermostat to 85 but to answer your first question about the USA being a 3rd world country. The answer is no but it has fell out of first class in many areas.

So many people are blaming Consumers and saying how unprepared they are. I actually have a completely opposite point of view. After all, this happened yesterday at around 10:30am, and how many people lost their gas service right away? None. How many people have lost their service since? None.

I guess I don't get the outrage.

Seems that they actually have some good redundancy in place, and probably under any normal day, they could handle the outage seamlessly.

Also seems like they're trying to actually make sure that people keep their heat on. They're not asking people to turn off their furnaces. They are just asking people to cut back a little on probably the most high demand time period in decades.

I think it's a pretty reasonable ask.

Consumers has a link showing how many affected so far/ outage areas:

https://www.consumersenergy.com/outages/outage-center

In winter our thermostat is programmed to 65 degrees in the daytime, 61 degrees at night [[9:00 PM to 5:00 AM).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zacha341

Yep, good times ahead. Course the folks dictating/ mandating will have all the heat, AC, big foot-print gas guzzeling homes, private jets, boats, etc. they desire. And no, they'll NOT all be the right-wing batch either.

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Exactly. It's like politicians with lifetime. top-of-the-line, permanent healthcare for themselves and their loved ones, telling you to tighten up your belt.

We prefer hotter at night. I'm cold natured and chill easily, even with tons of clothes on. Breathing cool air makes me ill. Everyone's needs vary.

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Originally Posted by Crystal

In winter our thermostat is programmed to 65 degrees in the daytime, 61 degrees at night [[9:00 PM to 5:00 AM).

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History shows that civilizations end. I often wonder what the beginning of the end looks like. I think it looks like this.

Bring marshmallows!

https://media.newyorker.com/cartoons...6995_g2048.jpg

“Yes, the planet got destroyed. But for a beautiful moment
in time we created a lot of value for shareholders.”

Permanent premium health care mind you. Hah! Even Castro came here to get some at the end of his life!

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Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Exactly. It's like politicians with lifetime. top-of-the-line, permanent healthcare for themselves and their loved ones, telling you to tighten up your belt.

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I call bullshit, they lost some money due to gas loss,
[[insurance claim no doubt) and it all goes Kabloeey,
not buying into the hype.

The grid has plenty of natural gas
http://www.jsg.utexas.edu/news/files...peline-A1.jpeg

http://www.jsg.utexas.edu/news/files...peline-A1.jpeg

I'm predicting a Midwest baby explosion come late September/early October. Cuddle alerts can have long-term repercussions you know.

They lost their main compression station and are worried that they can't supply that abundance of gas to consumers.
C'mon people, a few degrees of heat isn't going to kill anyone that's reasonably healthy and you can crank it back up and give CP more money by tomorrow. It's 1 day out of your lives; it won't kill you

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Originally Posted by O3H

I call bullshit, they lost some money due to gas loss,
[[insurance claim no doubt) and it all goes Kabloeey,
not buying into the hype.

The grid has plenty of natural gas
http://www.jsg.utexas.edu/news/files...peline-A1.jpeg

http://www.jsg.utexas.edu/news/files...peline-A1.jpeg

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The saint in me says let's band together and decrease energy use in this tough time. [[though would like that plea to come from Whitmer or Duggan) The realist in me says these companies are monopolies and still can't keep energy flowing in wind storms, deep freezes ect. wth.

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Originally Posted by Zacha341

Permanent premium health care mind you. Hah! Even Castro came here to get some at the end of his life!

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And our politicians go to Canada.... go figure.

Yep, I'm a September baby at the end of the baby-boom era. Hah!

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Originally Posted by Bong-Man

I'm predicting a Midwest baby explosion come late September/early October. Cuddle alerts can have long-term repercussions you know.

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Yes, thus I dialed down somewhat in compliance. Everything can not be bound in politics.

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Originally Posted by DeLemur

The saint in me says let's band together and decrease energy use in this tough time. [[though would like that plea to come from Whitmer or Duggan) The realist in me says these companies are monopolies and still can't keep energy flowing in wind storms, deep freezes ect. wth.

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This is the result of not using COAL for your main energy source. Keep believing in "green" energies.

Imagine if even 1/2 [[1/8, whatever) of the cars in the State of Michigan were electric running off our substandard electric grid.

If DY posters represent a cross section of Consumers customers' snarkiness, selfishness, and intended noncompliance with the request to dial down, we're doomed.

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Originally Posted by DeLemur

The saint in me says let's band together and decrease energy use in this tough time. [[though would like that plea to come from Whitmer or Duggan) ....

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Whitmer has made that plea.

Gov. Whitmer asks Michigan residents to turn heat down to 65 degrees or less

On WWJ I heard mention of the possibility of temporary gas outages. Later I heard that would only be a last resort. Well, yeah, I would expect that to be a last resort.

So now I'm planning ahead to figure out how to drain the plumbing just in case. I imagine the reason outages would be "temporary" would be to prevent burst water pipes so draining wouldn't be necessary.

Doesn't hurt to plan ahead though.

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Originally Posted by Crystal

If DY posters represent a cross section of Consumers customers' snarkiness, selfishness, and intended noncompliance with the request to dial down, we're doomed.

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It's the result of multiple generations of nearly unlimited abundance, and probably the greatest weakness we have as Americans. In Japan or China a request like this would probably have near 100% compliance with little complaint.

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Originally Posted by 313WX

In defense of O3H, I think he was referring to them minimizing their loses by making sure their bad problem doesn't get worse, which would be a much bigger hit to their bottom line than a brief/temporary drop in consumption.

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And once we're by this I hope their asses are dragged up before regulatory bodies and commissions for answers and, if deserved, penalties and mandates. They appear to have screwed up and left our metro D vulnerable to what could have been a major disaster.

Still, I think it is good civic responsibility for us to reduce consumption if possible. I know that is a hard ask in the this age of outrage, but I will do my part. On the big user end I have heard that all GM plants have shut and other big consumers are hurry to say how much they are helping.

And just checking their stock price CMS is up 0.08%, slightly ahead of the broader market.

Hah! How's about that. So imagine a repeat of the great depression ala resigned folks waiting in lines for soup and bread like those bw films. Nope! It would be anarchy! People on-the-absolute-nut, stomping over folks, burning, looting, shooting at helicopters dropping off food, total disaster etc.

As per our increasing culture and social degeneracy [[celebrated by some) many are FAR gone beyond the stogy conventions of the polite, fellow-feeling thing.

Sewing and reaping indeed!! See the fights, bedlam over that Friday sales after Thanksgiving day thing. And that's in good times. God help us! --:eek:--

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Originally Posted by Crystal

If DY posters represent a cross section of Consumers customers' snarkiness, selfishness, and intended noncompliance with the request to dial down, we're doomed.

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Right-o. The average American has no concept of levels of grinding poverty say of Burundi, Haiti, parts of India etc. No potable water, toilets, no cable tv! And we're already divided in our values and politics ala the far left vs. the far right.

Japan is more unified culturally; China more dictatorially responsive per theirs.

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Originally Posted by Johnnny5

It's the result of multiple generations of nearly unlimited abundance, and probably the greatest weakness we have as Americans. In Japan or China a request like this would probably have near 100% compliance with little complaint.

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Pity, empathy, compassion for a utility company ...........nah, nope !!!

The federal Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration
"has identified roughly 5,688 miles of at-risk natural gas pipeline
in Michigan ... approximately 50 percent of all the at-risk pipe
in the PHMSA's 11-state central region."
--It could cost around $500 million for the project. and the report said
that's part of the problem.
State law requires projects to exceed a half-billion dollars.

www.clickondetroit.com/news/michigan-needs-over-5600-at-risk-natural-gas-pipelines-fixed-study-says

It is a PUBLIC utility - run by us - for us .....yeah , democracy !!!

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/m...t_607863_7.pdf

Do you feel your voice is heard on the utilities commission, utility regulatory commission [[URC), public utilities commission [[PUC), or public service commission [[PSC) governing body that regulates the rates and services of a public utility ?

NaturalGas / Electric / Water as a singular, unique entity, a utility company
--- YES --- it already exists in the USA --- a true monopoly --https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20171204005712/en/Eversource-Completes-Acquisition-Aquarion-Water-Company

How did you spend your Refund - Credit - Money Back - $$$
https://www.michigan.gov/mpsc/0,4639...9771--,00.html

MPSC approves nearly $50.3 million in cuts to customer bills
from 7 utilities following federal corporate tax reduction

LANSING, Mich. – The Michigan Public Service Commission [[MPSC) today approved settlement agreements with seven utilities to pass on to ratepayers their savings from the federal tax law rewrite, beginning in July. Three other utilities had no impact from the changes.

Filings were approved for Alpena Power Co., DTE Gas Co., Michigan Gas Utilities Corp., Northern States Power, SEMCO Energy Gas Co., and Upper Michigan Energy Resources Corp. [[UMERC). There was no impact on rates for Detroit Thermal LLC, Presque Isle Electric & Gas Co-op, and Wisconsin Electric Power Co.

Credit A savings totaled $50,278,473 for the seven companies.

Rulings will be announced later for Consumers Energy Co., DTE Electric Co., Indiana Michigan Power Co. [[I&M), and Upper Peninsula Power Co. [[UPPCo).
"Through swift action by the Commission, Michigan ratepayers will experience millions of dollars in refunds on their utility bills starting this summer due to changes in federal corporate income taxes," said Sally Talberg, chairman of the MPSC. “Utilities are benefiting from the tax cuts and their customers should, too.”

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Originally Posted by Zacha341

Right-o. The average American has no concept of levels of grinding poverty say of Burundi, Haiti, parts of India etc. No potable water, toilets, no cable tv! And we're already divided in our values and politics ala the far left vs. the far right.

Japan is more unified culturally; China more dictatorially responsive per theirs.

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Or parts of the US, say ... Appalachia, many other rural and some urban areas, some Native American Reservations .....

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Originally Posted by Zacha341

Yes, thus I dialed down somewhat in compliance. Everything can not be bound in politics.

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Right. I dialed down too.

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Originally Posted by Johnnny5

It's the result of multiple generations of nearly unlimited abundance, and probably the greatest weakness we have as Americans. In Japan or China a request like this would probably have near 100% compliance with little complaint.

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Truth. Though our weakness can be overcome with some solidarity and heros to look up to. Sadly we're millions of miles from that right now.

heard from family that GM Tech Center is closed today + tomorrow due to consumers fire.

Amazon closed due to caring for its workers - outside in the cold.
Logistics, vehicle moves, scheduling for warehouse operations.
Romulus with 850,000 square feet was vacant Wed.

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Originally Posted by O3H

Amazon closed due to caring for its workers - outside in the cold.
Logistics, vehicle moves, scheduling for warehouse operations.
Romulus with 850,000 square feet was vacant Wed.

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Good for them! The only downside is many of them are contract workers, and unlike those at USPS and GM they probably won't be paid for the work they miss. This past Tuesday I actually had to "donate" some of the sand I carry in my vehcile to an Amazon delivery driver. He was stuck on flat, ice covered ground in one of those Enterprise rental vans and couldn't move.

What did you do this morning when you got up? I took a hot shower - I’ll bet over half the population of the world has never seen a hot shower.

And some parts of Detroit. There are many families squatting in homes, no heat or water.

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Originally Posted by Meddle

Or parts of the US, say ... Appalachia, many other rural and some urban areas, some Native American Reservations .....

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What exactly do we pay for every month - reliability ?

fail-safe systems fail by failing to fail safe

In response to reporter questions about why one facility distributes 64% of Consumers Energy's natural gas, utility says the station has three separate plants - to allow for 'redundancy.' The problem: fire shut down everything initially. And just 1 of 3 is fully running now

.....And nobody is calling for hanging some CEO
from his big toe, naked in the wind chills ?

Actually you pay every month for what you consume and not what you anticipate on consuming.

You have to read your contract with the gas company and see if they are actually required by law to provide you with gas.

Or you could revolt and switch to,electric,coal,or wood heat and get even with them,or put a bag of dead salty fish on their doorstep,light it on fire,ring the bell and run,that would get em.

I think it is ultimately Canada’s fault,if you notice all the cold fronts drop down from there,so they must have some liability in it all.

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Originally Posted by Richard

I think it is ultimately Canada’s fault,if you notice all the cold fronts drop down from there,so they must have some liability in it all.

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Damn Canadians! Maybe we should build a wall.:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Johnnny5

This past Tuesday I actually had to "donate" some of the sand I carry in my vehcile to an Amazon delivery driver. He was stuck on flat, ice covered ground in one of those Enterprise rental vans and couldn't move.

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Ain't no way. I'd have let him sit on it and spin. Let Jeff eat the costs of towing his vehicles out.

Now, if the guy had been in his own vehicle on his own time, that would have been different.

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Originally Posted by Richard

Actually you pay every month for what you consume and not what you anticipate on consuming.

You have to read your contract with the gas company and see if they are actually required by law to provide you with gas.

Or you could revolt and switch to,electric,coal,or wood heat and get even with them,or put a bag of dead salty fish on their doorstep,light it on fire,ring the bell and run,that would get em.

I think it is ultimately Canada’s fault,if you notice all the cold fronts drop down from there,so they must have some liability in it all.

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Tell me more about how you switch to electric, coal or wood heat? That's the problem here. There's limited competition. Pot belly stoves are illegal, they try to squeeze you if you do solar http://www.michiganradio.org/post/bi...KYBVPIVsFpQnzI, I guess you could get a heat pump that works off of cherry pits. If there was true competition I guess I wouldn't get so angry at them.

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Originally Posted by Meddle

Ain't no way. I'd have let him sit on it and spin. Let Jeff eat the costs of towing his vehicles out.

Now, if the guy had been in his own vehicle on his own time, that would have been different.

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I don't approve of the way Amazon operates, and think they should have been reined in by the Feds years ago. That said, the majority of their delivery drivers

are in their own vehicles [[Sometimes rented) and on their own time. It's not Bezos who is losing out if they're stuck, it's the contracted driver in the vehicle.

^^^Hah! Yeah in the perceived short-term interest [[Amazon's) of giving folks down the chain a thin slice of profits, the whole personal delivery option has grown. But if you jack up your car you're on your own.

Reminds me of the days of yellow pages books. Decades ago, I did the door to door deliveries only to see it was too much. Like get you're own private company to deliver the things. Folks would do well if they had a van and their kids to help. But officially, the said don't use kids to help...

The money was pitiful, considering the wear and tear on your car and unlike Lyft or Uber you could not build up the earnings with frequency of run. It was sorry, small amount for just a limited drops.

All profit for the company. Your car run down to the ground.

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Originally Posted by DeLemur

Tell me more about how you switch to electric, coal or wood heat? That's the problem here. There's limited competition. Pot belly stoves are illegal, they try to squeeze you if you do solar http://www.michiganradio.org/post/bi...KYBVPIVsFpQnzI, I guess you could get a heat pump that works off of cherry pits. If there was true competition I guess I wouldn't get so angry at them.

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I hear you,I live in the sunshine state where it is illegal to be solar dependent.

Aside from that,dealing with hurricanes where you can lose services for up to 90 days and boating in the ocean I like to have a plan A-B-C and no be 100% reliant on anybody.

Granted it is different up there and if you are not a homeowner you would be kinda stuck,but for the most part natural gas is a fairly reliable source.

I would be looking at what if and what can I do in an emergency or not be tied to fluctuating fuel costs.

In a vintage house that had a fireplace you could get a pellet/wood burner insert they are at 89% efficiency rate and actually are 53c per btu cheaper then Natural gas.The new ones burn 95% of the logs and leave hardly any ash.

They have dual or even tri fuel boilers for hot water base board heating and forced air heating.

Even with just dual fuel,Nat gas or Propane,if you had a couple of 78 gal cylinders which are easy enough to store,if you lost the natural gas you could use the propane as a back up in an emergency.

If an ice storm comes through you could also use the propane to run the generator to at least power the furnace,refrigerator.

Its more about getting by for at least a week on being self dependent.

It costs money for the upgrades but there are tax credits and incentives to upgrade the pellet/wood stoves.

The government put in a program,cap it or something like that,that requires the gas companies that have dead lines,they either have to activate them with customers or remove them,it is cheaper for them to add customers then to dig them up.

They offer all kinds or free incentives on anything gas related,boilers,heater,cook stoves,dryers,on demand water heaters etc. that helps offset the costs.

It does not get comparatively cold here and when it does not for an extended amount of time but I am a wuss and have 4 different heat sources for a 1300 sqft 80 year old house with little insulation.

An electric window A/C heat and cool.
A 1950s cool looking oil burner with a 55 gal drum.

An in stream with the central air system with a heat ex changer that uses hot water from a propane fired hot water heater.

I have a heat pump A/C but they are worthless under 50 degrees and burn lots of electricity.

My utility bill,even in the heat of the summer rarely goes over $110,I buy the fuel oil off season when it is cheaper,or free on craigslist,but probably not likely up there, and shop propane prices.Uhaul seems to be the cheapest consistently.

I am going to add a fireplace this summer because,I like them and push comes to shove,I can heat and cook with it with no electricity.

Interesting enough up until 1945 to 1950 it was like up to 70% of rural farms still had no electricity,they still survived.

Sometimes you have to find your own options when others are limited .

Interesting that you mentioned the Pot Belly stove,in the mid 70s,Minnesota,I used to help this lady in her 70s with cutting teh grass and snow shoveling etc. after her husband passed,she heated her smaller two story house all winter long with a pot belly stove,I would go in there to get my hot coca and it was always toasty in there,that was her only heat source and it was not for lack of funds.

Consumers Energy Gives “All Clear” to Customers at Midnight to End Emergency Natural Gas Reductions

Jackson, Mich. Thursday, January 31, 2019

Company Expresses Gratitude for Unprecedented Assistance

Latest Update: 4:15 PM - January 31, 2019

Consumers Energy announced that its emergency public appeal to conserve natural gas is ending at midnight tonight for all customers – commercial, industrial and residential.
“There is no doubt the gas reduction efforts by residents and businesses across the Lower Peninsula played a key role in helping maintain natural gas flow in our distribution system at a time when it was critically needed,” said Patti Poppe, Consumers Energy’s president and chief executive officer. “Because of the swift action of all, we were able to continue critical services – from the bottom of my heart and on behalf of the men and women of Consumers Energy, we thank you,” she said.
Consumers Energy made its public appeal to conserve Wednesday, following a morning fire that damaged equipment at its Ray Natural Gas Compressor Station in Macomb County. There were no injuries and the cause of the fire remains under investigation. The fire reduced the amount of natural gas that could be delivered to customers from underground storage located at the compressor station. The site is a combination compression and storage field where Consumers Energy stores natural gas until it is needed by customers.
The damage to compressor equipment at Consumers Energy’s largest storage and delivery system, coupled with continued historically cold temperatures, prompted the company to ask customers to dial back their thermostats and conserve natural gas use in their homes.
Repairs at the Ray Compressor Station are ongoing, and one of the station’s three compressors is partially in service. A root cause analysis to try and determine why the fire occurred has also been initiated.

I'm not trying to imply any skullduggery here but I'm reminded of this scene from Thunderdome:

Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome [[1985) - Master Blaster Scene [[3/9) | Movieclips

Let us hope - the PUBLIC utility is probed long deep and hard.

https://www.bridgemi.com/public-sect...re-bitter-cold

Quote:

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Originally Posted by O3H

Let us hope - the PUBLIC utility is probed long deep and hard.

https://www.bridgemi.com/public-sect...re-bitter-cold

---

She is doing exactly what she is supposed to do and what proably should have been done long ago,have a plan B and response to weather related emergencies and how it applies to the state.

Then find out what happened and see what can be done in case it happens again,that is proactive.

The one thing that is guaranteed is when it comes to utilities,no matter what happens,you will pay for it.

Utilities have a responsibility to their customers but at the end of the day things happen and as we already know,this country has a serious infrastructure problem.

Something happened,most of the residents stepped up to the plate and pulled together in a group effort to help,which is commendable,while others want to start waterboarding without knowing exactly what happened.

What might be even worse is after eating a bunch of salty fish the water system goes down.

There was a WAKE-UP call back in 2016/2017 and little happened.
Ordinary citizens felt no power, no authority, no voice back then either.
PUBLIC utility my ass, most citizens don't have a clue who is in charge

michigan-needs-over-5600-at-risk-natural-gas-pipelines-fixed-study-says

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jimaz

Whitmer has made that plea.

Gov. Whitmer asks Michigan residents to turn heat down to 65 degrees or less

---

Am I the only one that was hopping mad about that text?

For the record, I am totally okay with the request to turn down the thermostat.

However, what the actual fuck? 10:30 p.m.? They knew about that fire for TWELVE HOURS. I was so sound asleep and couldn't fall back asleep and had to work the next day, and I'm sure I wasn't alone. Why wait twelve hours to send that? How many more people would have turned it down had they actually been awake?

Also, it was the most ambiguous, poorly-worded turd I've run across in a while. Consumers is asking? Like I give a fuck about them. I don't have Consumers - and as evidenced by the immediate shitstorm on the Twitter-verse, people were completely confused by that cryptic message. Be clear. Be succinct. Show your work.

It just pissed me off that we live in the wealthiest country in the world and this is what we get from the titans of industry and the governors' mansions. If I sent something like that at work I'd be in somebody's office explaining myself.

Glad it worked out but I'm just sick of what passes for leadership these days. The Orange Imbecile is no Eisenhower, Whitmer is no G. Mennan Williams, and late-night-plea Polly Pajamas whoever-who-cares should ask Stanford for her money back.

DTE wants to make sure that you know that this was only an issue with Consumers Energy and that they in-fact gave\sold excess gas supply to Consumers as well as sold excess electricity to the grid.

Quote:

---

Dear Valued Customer,

We know how challenging the subzero temperatures of this past week were for each of you. Keeping our families safe, warm and comfortable is our number one priority. We don’t want you to ever have to worry about whether or not your energy provider can keep your home warm and well-lit.

We want to reassure you that our electric and gas delivery systems responded, as planned for during such weather events, to provide DTE's more than 3.3 million customers across Michigan with safe and reliable energy. In fact, we were able to provide assistance to others, exporting electricity as called upon to stabilize the regional grid and providing additional gas supplies to Consumers Energy as they contended with a reduction in deliveries from one of their facilities.

We know how important it is for our customers and Michigan’s economy to have safe, reliable and affordable electric and gas service you can count on day in and day out. That’s why we are committed to doing our part to give you peace of mind, whether in the dog days of summer or the bitter cold of winter.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 48307

DTE wants to make sure that you know that this was only an issue with Consumers Energy and that they in-fact gave\sold excess gas supply to Consumers as well as sold excess electricity to the grid.

---

Got the same e-mail today.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by poobert

Am I the only one that was hopping mad about that text?

For the record, I am totally okay with the request to turn down the thermostat.

However, what the actual fuck? 10:30 p.m.? They knew about that fire for TWELVE HOURS. I was so sound asleep and couldn't fall back asleep and had to work the next day, and I'm sure I wasn't alone. Why wait twelve hours to send that? How many more people would have turned it down had they actually been awake?

Also, it was the most ambiguous, poorly-worded turd I've run across in a while. Consumers is asking? Like I give a fuck about them. I don't have Consumers - and as evidenced by the immediate shitstorm on the Twitter-verse, people were completely confused by that cryptic message. Be clear. Be succinct. Show your work.

It just pissed me off that we live in the wealthiest country in the world and this is what we get from the titans of industry and the governors' mansions. If I sent something like that at work I'd be in somebody's office explaining myself.

Glad it worked out but I'm just sick of what passes for leadership these days. The Orange Imbecile is no Eisenhower, Whitmer is no G. Mennan Williams, and late-night-plea Polly Pajamas whoever-who-cares should ask Stanford for her money back.

---

Yeah, having to awaken from your slumber is a such a terrible thing. It's not like it was an emergency situation where a large portion of the surrounding area was at threat of losing natural gas service during the coldest days in a generation. God forbid that someone has to roll out of bed for 20 seconds to check their phone and push the thermostat button a couple times. :rolleyes:

Odds are that Consumers waited so long because making such a request isn't something that is taken on lightly. They were probably initially hopeful that it could be corrected in time and that step would not be necessary. But with record low temps and record high gas usage obviously that wasn't the case, hence the late evening text.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Richard

I hear you,I live in the sunshine state where it is illegal to be solar dependent.

Aside from that,dealing with hurricanes where you can lose services for up to 90 days and boating in the ocean I like to have a plan A-B-C and no be 100% reliant on anybody.

Granted it is different up there and if you are not a homeowner you would be kinda stuck,but for the most part natural gas is a fairly reliable source.

I would be looking at what if and what can I do in an emergency or not be tied to fluctuating fuel costs.

In a vintage house that had a fireplace you could get a pellet/wood burner insert they are at 89% efficiency rate and actually are 53c per btu cheaper then Natural gas.The new ones burn 95% of the logs and leave hardly any ash.

They have dual or even tri fuel boilers for hot water base board heating and forced air heating.

Even with just dual fuel,Nat gas or Propane,if you had a couple of 78 gal cylinders which are easy enough to store,if you lost the natural gas you could use the propane as a back up in an emergency.

If an ice storm comes through you could also use the propane to run the generator to at least power the furnace,refrigerator.

Its more about getting by for at least a week on being self dependent.

It costs money for the upgrades but there are tax credits and incentives to upgrade the pellet/wood stoves.

The government put in a program,cap it or something like that,that requires the gas companies that have dead lines,they either have to activate them with customers or remove them,it is cheaper for them to add customers then to dig them up.

They offer all kinds or free incentives on anything gas related,boilers,heater,cook stoves,dryers,on demand water heaters etc. that helps offset the costs.

It does not get comparatively cold here and when it does not for an extended amount of time but I am a wuss and have 4 different heat sources for a 1300 sqft 80 year old house with little insulation.

An electric window A/C heat and cool.
A 1950s cool looking oil burner with a 55 gal drum.

An in stream with the central air system with a heat ex changer that uses hot water from a propane fired hot water heater.

I have a heat pump A/C but they are worthless under 50 degrees and burn lots of electricity.

My utility bill,even in the heat of the summer rarely goes over $110,I buy the fuel oil off season when it is cheaper,or free on craigslist,but probably not likely up there, and shop propane prices.Uhaul seems to be the cheapest consistently.

I am going to add a fireplace this summer because,I like them and push comes to shove,I can heat and cook with it with no electricity.

Interesting enough up until 1945 to 1950 it was like up to 70% of rural farms still had no electricity,they still survived.

Sometimes you have to find your own options when others are limited .

Interesting that you mentioned the Pot Belly stove,in the mid 70s,Minnesota,I used to help this lady in her 70s with cutting teh grass and snow shoveling etc. after her husband passed,she heated her smaller two story house all winter long with a pot belly stove,I would go in there to get my hot coca and it was always toasty in there,that was her only heat source and it was not for lack of funds.

---

Thanks for the advice. If we do an addition on this Detroit house I'm certainly getting a fire place or stove. In addition to the boiler I have 25K btu Mitsubishi mini/splits [[I think the same as a heat pump) and yes I barely use them in the winter because I hear they're quite inefficient. The A/C is great with them though.

The reason they waited until 10:30pm is because demand wasn't falling as they'd hoped. Typically demand drops down through the evening, but that wasn't happening with the chilly temperatures.

I'm guessing rate hikes to 'cover the losses' followed by huge bonuses to The Suits for 'aggressively and effective crisis management'.

So who has the GUTS to go on file and bitch about it ?
Put it on the record, express your thoughts, - it is a PUBLIC utility

https://www.michigan.gov/mpsc/0,4639...243---,00.html

Have you considered immolation as a form of protest? That would be ironic.

Accidents happen. No one died. Get over it. Utilities' rates are limited by regulation. You want to starve the beast then complain about their crappy service.

BULL SHIT - yes in caps - at 500 decibels

Pipeline redundancy can handle ""accidents""
These bastards just didn't want to buy natural gas at the market price.

Survey says 200 million Americans would perfer not to buy natural gas at the market price.

It happened and passed and seems to be related to the actual distribution side and not actually running out,it does not matter what they pay it gets passed on to the consumer anyways.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by O3H

BULL SHIT - yes in caps - at 500 decibels

Pipeline redundancy can handle ""accidents""
These bastards just didn't want to buy natural gas at the market price.

---

Funny. So they didn't want to sell the product they are in the business of selling? Got it.

No it isn't funny - it is sad that some are so ignorant. - PUBLIC utility -

The utilities delivery natural gas to your home or business.
This unique separate entity ensures reliable delivery to the community.
You call the them, and only them, with residential gas delivery issues.

The natural gas suppliers provide the actual commodity.
This entity contracts natural gas requirements using the
infrastructure provided by the gas utility.

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/7359...it_free_press/

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The lines of electricity and natural gas get blurred
- as Consumers Power uses natural gas for Electric Production.
Yeah, that coal thing isn't so hot, so power has to come from ""somewhere""

CMS Enterprises,
through its subsidiaries and equity investments,
is engaged primarily in independent power production
and owns power generation facilities fueled
mostly by natural gas and renewable sources.


CMS Energy manages its businesses by the nature of services each provides, and operates principally in three business segments:
electric utility, gas utility, and enterprises.

Anyone watch who pays what rate ?
https://www.consumersenergy.com/resi...rges-explained

Try page 10 - to understand the Franchise [[yes that is the correct word)
https://www.consumersenergy.com/-/me...rate-book.ashx

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by O3H

BULL SHIT - yes in caps - at 500 decibels

Pipeline redundancy can handle ""accidents""
These bastards just didn't want to buy natural gas at the market price.

---

A. Gas prices dropped on the Monday before the big freeze
B. Gas companies buy futures for their gas needs, so their price was locked
C. Whatever they buy, they can sell to us at a profit. The whole state turning their furnaces down lost them money. It would seem that even if they needed to pay high spot prices for buying extra gas, they would still make money, just not as much.

I don't think there's much of a case for them refusing to buy at market prices.

Yeah, but --- they needed the gas IMMEDIATELY --- not from the futures

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Richard

It happened and passed and seems to be related to the actual distribution side and not actually running out,it does not matter what they pay it gets passed on to the consumer anyways.

---

This is exactly right. The issue was with the compressor station not running, and then running at only one third capacity. There was plenty of gas available in storage, just no way to pump it out to the customers quickly enough. They also purchased gas from other utilities, but the intersystem connections that they were being pumped through were already being utilized to full capacity. You can't just create new connections on demand.

Any insinuations that they didn't, or were unwilling to purchase additional gas from other sources is inaccurate.

Some people have high levels of trust and confidence in the utilities
-- others do not. I think utilities are beholden to the investors.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by O3H

Some people have high levels of trust and confidence in the utilities
-- others do not. I think utilities are beholden to the investors.

---

For some, such things exist as only a concept, performed in far away tall towers by mystical, shadowy characters. For others, it happens in real time, with real people and tangible objects you can actually see, hear, and touch.

Sometimes, you need only to trust your own eyes.

Like seeing, hearing and feeling the heat from the explosion, right ?

Orion Township — A gas explosion that lit up the sky over Oakland County last month comes after 21 other incidents involving Consumers Energy pipelines in Michigan over the past decade, federal records show.
The incidents caused property damage totaling more than $10 million, according to data the utility reported to to the U.S. Department of Transportation’s Pipeline & Hazardous Materials Safety Administration.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...rns/108619266/

OR maybe THIS one - a natural gas substation near a power plant was on fire.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/gas-line-...uries-reported

OR maybe even this link
https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...ts/1033801001/

SURE I trust them, just like everyone .................................................. ..................

There have been more than 300 fatalities and 1,200 injuries caused by natural gas pipeline incidents in the last 20 years, according to data from the Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration, the federal agency responsible for overseeing the industry.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by O3H

Like seeing, hearing and feeling the heat from the explosion, right ?

---

When that big pipeline exploded near Great Lakes Crossing last year my coworker was about a quarter mile away at a gas station. What first brought his attention to the explosion wasn't the sight of it, it wasn't the sound of it, it was the heat. As he was sitting in his car getting ready to pump his gas he felt radiating heat on one side of his face.

Trust - that "thing" which averts your attention from a 50 ft CRATER

The most serious Michigan gas explosion in the past decade occurred in May 2015 in Chelsea and caused more than $5.4 million in damage to Consumers’ property and $358,080 in product loss, according to federal records.
That Washtenaw County incident was attributed to equipment and weld failure due to environmental cracking.
“There was a large break in a 20-inch diameter gas line and it left a 50-foot deep crater,” said Chelsea fire Chief Robert Arbini.

So who is keeping count ? # natural GAS explosions in Michigan , recently

You ARE paying for them, as a member of a PUBLIC utility , right ??????
But you trust it's the proper, fair, correct, justified amount..................sure