Is it really down on the street?
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Is it really down on the street?
HistoricDetroit posted a photo on their Facebook page. So yes.
Not surprised though. The thing is old, probably wasn't reinforced recently, and now we have ice.
Well, if it's on fakebook .....
Yup, well you know HistoricDetroit. Likes to photoshop pictures of collapsed buildings and structures.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddle
https://www.facebook.com/HistoricDet...type=3&theater
It's been verified by the Free Press.
https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...it/2660893002/
So Detroit, when are building owners going to be held accountable for D&H violations?
I mentioned this in the grand trunk warehouse thread a couple days back.
I seem to recall the South American was working on shoring that up a couple years ago? IMHO that should've been something at the top of his list.
Yes he did. https://www.mlive.com/business/detro...t_gets_ti.html
Supposed to have been done in 2016.
Nothing is forever; especially without maintenance. Just grateful that a car or bus wasn't under the stupid thing when it gave way.
As far as the city comes, it’s absolutely insane this is still happening. There’s oodles of blighted structures that threaten public safety standing wide open to anyone.
The galling bit is they charged people to walk through this place.
Quote:
At about 2, it came to light that some people were driving around the barrier we'd put up. So I called Detroit police to see if they could assist in blocking the traffic.
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...se/2661276002/Quote:
Detroit police Sgt. Nicole Kirkwood said units from the 7th Precinct were sent to the plant to help divert traffic. She said she was unsure if police got to the location before the collapse, adding that units were on the scene later Wednesday.
The Police don't know if the Police arrived before the collapse?
What the hell is going on up there?
Apparently some of you missed one important fact in the Free Press article before critcizing Palazuelo... that he didn't own the building across the street from the plant... the city did. And they refused to sell him that building, and the 1/2 of the bridge that they owned. Kinda hard for him to restore half a bridge, no? :eek: Regardless of what Mlive said... the Detroit Free Press said this....
Quote:
Kopietz said the city owns the building at 1539 E. Grand Blvd. that connects to the bridge, and that the bridge is jointly owned by the city and Arte Express.
"We have calls into the city of Detroit to discuss how to move forward, given the joint ownership of the bridge," Kopietz said. "Mr. Palazuelo has reiterated his desire to convince the city to transfer control of that building to us, at least under a development agreement, to stabilize and secure it."
Even to this day,nobody really knows who owns what with that property.Quote:
Originally Posted by hybridy
It keeps getting reported worldwide,in some cases,that he bought the sprawling property known as the Packard Plant and not parts of it as it is.
Depending on where the tours go through then it could be considered profiting on something one does not own.
All things aside I will miss this bridge having driven under countless times and walked through it a few times. It was an immense iconic Detroit presence. A picture from 2006.
Attachment 37411
Someone would have had to PAY ME to tour all that. Too dangerous such as floors falling in, or a ceilings coming down. No, thank you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hybridy
Damn, it's going to be hard to get into Arlan's now.
At least I have my memories.....
Attachment 37417
Hah. Can't the new owner/ the city or/ whoever just tear it all down already before someone gets injured/ killed?
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastsideAl
As mentioned, best of luck on the tour, especially following the useless demand of wearing a "hard helmet".....
It was reported that he did not own the other building across the street,city owned,so the bridge was co-owned between him and the city.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zacha341
What is interesting is the photos posted on Facebook show where scrappers removed structural components and some were posted where the bridge was sagging on one side.
I am thinking it was more of a case where the city was not ready to put any money into it,the new owner may have been upset because they did not sell him the connecting building on the other side so the intent was,it was there until it was not.
When the property was first developed it was done by assembling multiple parcels,but nobody through the years combined them all into one.
I have a list from when it was for sale before which contains over 100 individual parcels just for that listing,that is the problem over there.
You can have one building that spans 3 parcels with three different owners and every parcel is up to interpretation as to who owns it,you can own one building then jump over 2 and then own the next one.
No continuity,just able to own a spattering of buildings within the complex.
On one hand the property should have never gone to auction until it was a complete parcel.
But on the other hand the city was smart to withhold parcels and in essence maintain control what happens there,Kinda like saying,show us that you are going to do what you say first then we can talk about adding more.
Notice how the original plans were retail,housing,restaurants etc. but now have reverted to office space,cheaper to build out and without continuity within the buildings you would have apartments within the ruins.
That erea was part of the city future plan as heavy industrial zone.
Time for Detroit have a hard think
about property transactions and expediting operations.
Or someone walking in the street....Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray1936
Wow. Looks like he missed that targeted. Fortunately the bridged missed hitting a person.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikefmich
Or a 'mass transit' vehicle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastsideAl
WHAT? I have a return to make....
Yes, see now the city owns part of that bridge apparently.
I agree with that. My ma was born a block away on Medbury, grandparents lived there for nearly 50 yrs., grandfather worked there from day one, my folks were married at the little church still standing a couple blocks away. Going to visit on Medbury was a part of my life when very young. Love to see this get rebuilt, but I probably won't live that long. For that matter, none of us might. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowell
Looking west from 2008.
Attachment 37421
With all the reams of information supposedly out there, I can't readily find the timeline of construction, from the initial shovel turn to occupancy. But somehow I think it was considerably less than the time spent debating demolition.
Regarding Lowell’s picture:
I always envisioned owning an apartment in the top angled space. I’m not sure when that collapsed but it was after 2009
I always wondered what the odd bay was at the corner with the glass roof. Styling studio? Does anyone know?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandhouse
I'm guessing it may have been a turlet. A toilet set in a turret, very popular in medieval architecture.
That damn thing was an eye sore in my opinion. Mother nature helping to tear down blight. Glad no adults were in there playing hide and seek with each other.
I would think it would be demolished and a new building built. That thing is to old to be rebuilt. I would think. Its toast.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikefmich
http://theneighborhoods.org/sites/th...g-large_0.jpeg
20 samples of material from the bridge were tested for asbestos as mandated by the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality; all showed negative results.
http://theneighborhoods.org/story/pa...vard-back-open
What's historic about an abandoned factory in a town full of abandoned factories? Historic is a monument or a civil war battlefield.
Really need a "like" button on DYes as in Facebook! But "Like", Pat!Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat001
I'm guessing a trip to Kingsway is out of the question too...:[[Quote:
Originally Posted by EastsideAl
-This complex of buildings is massive, something like 3.5 million square feet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat001
- An iconic luxury car brand was built there for 50 years
- It has been around for 115 years.
- The plant was used to build aircraft engines for both World War I and World War II
Many bicycle groups had taken photos clustered underneath that bridge. Thank God that the thing didnt collaspe on them while taking a photo and I am that the bridge didnt collasped on passing cars and pedestrians
"It included the first use of reinforced concrete in the United States for industrial construction in the automobile industry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat001
The Packard plant was opened in 1903 and at the time was considered the most modern automobile manufacturing facility in the world, "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packard_Automotive_Plant
There are a lot of historic places that don't involve mass death and destruction.
We still have other iconic landmarks [[eyesores) like the Uniroyal Tire billboard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray1936
Hah. Wasn't there a Shoppers World there too at the very end?
I guess that layaway of mine is inaccessible now!
Quote:
Originally Posted by 313WX
Arlans. That's a name from the past. I remember the one on 8 Mile and Telegraph, right where you take that turn to get on North Telegraph.Quote:
Originally Posted by EastsideAl
Clean up was almost complete yesterday when I swung by for a look. I wasn't worth going further than to take this long shot.
Attachment 37435
Since I was there I visited the cemetery for most quintessential "money shot" of Packard.
Attachment 37436
Each time a new piece of it has collapsed since the previous visit. In this case it can be seen that the northeast corner [left end] has collapsed since this summer view.
Attachment 37437
That's Trinity Cemetery, also known as the German Lutheran Cemetery. Wife has ancestors buried there. Staff at the office is very arrogant and unhelpful. Just sayin'.
Incredible shots of the continuing collapse from the cemetery Lowell. Walking down Mt. Elliott I always wondered how fast that particular building was caving in on itself. You have provided some photographic evidence to answer my question. Thanks for posting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowell
Still?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray1936
I was thinking about stopping by the next time I get up there for a one last Hail Mary about my g-g-grandmother & two daughters. Prussian immigrants from 1854.
I just recently watched the first episode of this year's Amazon's Grand Tour, much of which was filmed in Detroit. There were some nice shots of the three hosts driving a Mustang RTR, Hennessy Camaro and Dodge Demon under that overpass.
Attachment 37439Those upper floors were added during the start of WW I - 1916. At the time Packard was concerned about sabotage from German sympathizersQuote:
Originally Posted by Sandhouse
living in Detroit. At the time Packard was building Liberty aircraft engines for the war effort.
During construction is was decided that corner of the building would make and excellent observation spot to watch folks entering and leaving the building from the parking lot across the street. Documents show that PMCC called that area a "photographic studio." After the war was over they did, in fact, use it as a photographic studio.
Lowell, I would like to comment on your 2018 summer and 2019 winter photo comparison. Please see the google aerial image from this past summer. Rather than a [[weather related) collapse, it appears to be planned demolition. From the image you can see the missing area now contains [[somewhat) organized piles of rubble and some areas are scraped clean. This appears to be part of the cleanup.
Finally, there was an article in the Free Press yesterday that Palazuelo is delinquent in paying his Wayne County taxes. https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...es/2686758002/
The article was not clear about City of Detroit taxes. It did say the taxes were frozen, but I don't know what that means. Were they frozen at 2013 levels? Or, does that mean no city taxes are payable?
The freeze would keep taxes at the 2013 level for X amount of years,even on rehabbed parts that would have had a tax increase after completion.
The information about adding the upper floors is amazing when considering the original structure was designed to carry X amount of weight,that is a lot more weight added to the original foundation.
You have to wonder,at the time it was pushing the envelope with construction so they overbuilt to compensate,if they had applied today’s technology and bookkeeping of useing the smallest amount of material possible if it would have been still standing.
8 or 9 years ago it still had good bones over large parts of it but now it looks like it has been even a harsher time frame.
That is one property that you can say it has been to hell and then some,kinda sad really.
They reported 5 million in brownfield credits,but the old report from the state showed little contamination or similar of properties of that nature.
The worst listed was piles of tires and a couple of dumped transformers.No actual ground contamination.
continuing this bizarre saga. I guess we'll see whether Ford can renovate the train station faster than this fellow can renovate parts of the Packard.. still may be a mess years from now.. :[[
^^^ I think the train station is in the lead....:p...
Hey!! That's not a fair comparison.... compare Packard to the Ilitch's first residential or historic renovation in District Detroit. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Hypestyles
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dy5Un3qUYAAvekI.jpg
sourceQuote:
Demolition crews started tearing down one of the buildings at the #PackardPlant in #Detroit yesterday. The demo follows the collapse of the plant's iconic bridge over the Boulevard on Jan. 23. It's unclear whether more demo is to follow.
Ahhh, but it was oh so real. And now, alas, there's no bridge to that past anymore...Quote:
Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/9f/74/ec/9...7460367e6a.jpg
Yes, demolition will continue. From an article in the Freep https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...ll/2815840002/
“…the City of Detroit is making progress on demolishing a five-story, 300,000-square-foot building on the opposite end of Packard Plant that Palazuelo doesn't own. That city-owned parcel was blighted and holding back the surrounding neighborhood, according to Brian Farkas, director of special projects for the Detroit Building Authority. The demolition has been planned for years and marks the third city-owned Packard Plant structure to be razed.
“I don’t think anyone wants to invest next to a structure that is collapsing," Farkas said. The building is expected to be completely down by late May at a cost of $1.3 million from the city's general fund. A city spokesman said there are no current plans to redevelop the site once the building is gone.
Attached is an aerial view from the City of Detroit roughly showing what they own. As a point of reference the small “Privately Owned” label in the far, upper left is East Grand Boulevard.
Attachment 37545
It looked like that specific building was hit by an airstrike the way it collapsed. It's the right thing to do, tearing it down. Sad, but there's no real hope for it with most of it already gone.
https://www.detroityes.com/mb/attach...5&d=1549720804
It should have been torn down 50 years ago.
Fifty years ago it was still occupied. Kingsway was still doing good business through the summer of 1974 as I can recall.
^^^ Shoppers World was located there in the 80's for a bit.
Anyone got pictures of Grand Blvd and Concord now that the mess has been cleaned up?
That's two blocks south of Grand Blvd. Surely they haven't torn down everything between there and the collapsed bridge...or have they?Quote:
Originally Posted by hybridy
I haven’t made it over there since these pictures where put up here. I assume the building being demoed is the one behind the cemetery that Lowell photographed a couple weeks ago in post #45 of this thread?Quote:
Originally Posted by Király
Most of the complex was occupied, with an assortment of small industrial, storage, and other businesses, right up to the time the city used the police to take the place over and forcibly evicted 87 tenants without any legal order in early 1999.Quote:
Originally Posted by Packman41
If I am not mistaken, Fernando Palazuelo is not South American - he just lives there... and, yes, he didn't buy the entire Packard plant, just some parts. That probably makes sense - he has never done much with whatever bits of the building he owns, anyway.