I was wondering what people's thoughts were about making a push in Detroit to accept Canadian money more widespread? Do you think that this would make Detroit a more interesting place?
I was wondering what people's thoughts were about making a push in Detroit to accept Canadian money more widespread? Do you think that this would make Detroit a more interesting place?
I believe it would not.
Would accepting Chuck E. Cheese tokens make Detroit a more interesting place?
I believe so.
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Originally Posted by Newdetroit
How would that make Detroit more interesting?
I'm Canadian and I never spend Canadian money in the US. I get US money from the currency exchange before leaving home. I came with a wallet full of greenbacks on both my visits to Detroit.
The Detroit Community Scrip was a novel attempt at making Detroit a more interesting place. Whatever became of that?
Most places that convert money on the spot give you terrible exchange rates. People who convert their money at the store are wasting money. Better to just use your credit/debit card if your don't have the local currency.
In general no, it would not significantly increase Canadian tourism if that's what you're implying. I do however think Belle Tire should accept Canadian Tire money.
This is friggn brilliant. Maybe the little tickets as currency instead of tokens though...Quote:
Originally Posted by rjlj
No. Businesses may willingly choose to do so if they feel it will benefit them.
Wait, which coins are two dollars and which ones are a dollar?
if we were to do this, now I could use all that Canadian $$ I have laying around, since frequent trips to Windsor have gone the way of the do-do bird since 9/11.
This is one thing the Cdn. gov't has done which makes sense. Aside from the convenience the loonie & toonie save the gov't over 100 million per year. Multiply that x10 for the U.S..Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamtragedy
Getting rid of the penny was even more logical. I do however have about 600 still lying around somewhere. Almost enough for a coke on my next trip to Comerica Park.
Yes, there should be a push. Why not?
In Windsor, you can use US Dollars pretty freely, albeit at poor exchange rates. It would be polite to help the occasional Canadian who doesn't have US cash.
But being a frequent cross-border guy, I can tell you that there very few Canadians who don't have US money ready. While there are many Americans who have never crossed 'north', very few Canadians haven't gone on 'holiday' south of the border or visited the States for entertainment or shopping.
In the end, it really isn't very important to Canadians -- whereas it is very helpful to Americans in Windsor to be able to use US money for casual purchases.
In Canada, banks carry US funds in their drawers. its a second currency. US denominated accounts are common. If Detroit wants to encourage acceptance of Canadians money, the first thing to do is encourage the banks to make it easy. If its easy, businesses might do it. But if its hard, they probably won't.
Why does there need to be a push for something that any business could freely do today if they wanted/needed to?
Because Windsor is heavily dependent on spending by Americans. Detroit isn't now, and probably won't ever be, dependent on spending by Canadians.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch
I imagine that the border and the currency difference is disruptive to the regional [[that is, the Detroit + Windsor metro area) economy, and that there would be economic benefits to better integration, but I don't know how much.
Why? What would be the purpose?
For a slew of reasons, there should be such a push; and it isn't limited to tourism, but that's as good a reason as any to start.
My first trip to the US as a child was in the Buffalo-Niagara area where many businesses accept Canadian dollars. Back then the currency was typically around .85c to the US Dollar and many Buffalo areas businesses took it at par.
They considered it essential to attracting Canadian spending, offsetting costs like bridge tolls, gas and time by making the price even more attractive than it might already have been for various goods.
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On my first trip to Michigan, also many decades back, my dad had gotten some USD for the trip, but just figured on getting more out of ATMS or banks as needs be. Well, we arrive in Kalamazoo, and we're low on USD, but we figured no problem going to a fast food place for a meal, as they will surely take Cdn $. OF course they didn't. But its only an hour and change from the border, and I don't know anywhere in Canada you can't use US $; it just hadn't occurred to my dad [[or myself as child) that you couldn't exchange, even if at a premium.
So, w/that problem and a hungry child, we marched off the local bank, which at the time, did not have an ATM on one of the international systems. So he had to go into the branch. They didn't know how to transfer money from his Cdn acct. [[insert horrified expression here) and would only consider exchanging the actual dollars from his wallet; but since the tellers apparently had never seen Canadian money, they called their manager, who in turn called his boss to approve a simple exchange of a couple hundred dollars.
Worth adding my Dad had VISA, but the fast food place didn't take that, or debit.
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OF course, that was ages ago, and I wouldn't expect quite that much hassle today, and besides would bring plenty of USD if traveling south.
But that kind of inconvenience really struck me at the time and left something of a bad taste since we never had that challenge in upstate NY.
In any event, as most developed nations [[and parts of the US, LOL) learned ages ago, it behooves you to accommodate visitors, tends to be good for the economy.
Its worth noting that in my travels in Europe as well as across Canada, accommodation is not merely currency, but language and many other things. Not so much an issue at the Detroit/Windsor border, but an example just the same of a choice, most ATMs in Canada and in Europe operate in six or more languages. In Toronto, I normally see English, French, Mandarin, Arabic, Spanish and Italian as choices. But have also seen Portuguese, Polish, and Russian.
I saw the same in Europe where its second-nature to serve every customer in the language of their choice [[where software is used).
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Do I think that currency accomodation changes tourism. In short, yes.
No question that as high as Windsor-Detroit traffic is, you'll see more Ontario plates in Buffalo/Niagara shopping centres [[and in Bellingham, Washington too) vs the Detroit area.
Some of that, is of course the closeness of Toronto and Vancouver, respectively); but its also ease of travel/shopping.
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Tourism aside, its also good for business. The ease with which Canadian businesses can operate on the US side of the border in Buff/Niagara has led to considerable cross-border investment.
Detroit is larger, and will always be less tied to its Nor...[[err, Southern neighbour) .....but... there is much to be gained for making cross-border travel, business and tourist easier on everyone.
This is illustrative of my point above. Far more people live on the Toronto side of the border than the Buffalo side. It's in the economic interest of the American side of that stretch of the border to attract Canadian spending. For Windsor/Detroit it's a more extreme population and tourism imbalance in the other direction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Visitor
Exactly the correct answer. I'll just add that Canadiens must love carrying coins where Americans positively hate them. Nobody would be happy with the outcome.Quote:
Originally Posted by ndavies
Granted there is a difference in the population dynamics....though...Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed
Metro Detroit is somewhere around 4,000,000 people; and the population of South-Western Ontario [[within a 2 hour drive of the border) is 1,100,000 [[includes, Windsor, London, Sarnia, St. Thomas and Chatham).
That [[2 hours) is the same drive time as Toronto to Buffalo.
That's still a lot of money to leave on the table.
Used to be when the Canuckistani dollar traded near par that denominations up to including a buck were accepted.
Kalamazoo is just a bit far away from the border for people to be familiar with Canadian Tire money and loonies.
Pretty sure the population on the American side within a 2 hour drive of Detroit is a bit higher than 4M. Probably on the order of 6M+. Also, not only is Buffalo the smaller of the two but it also the route between Toronto and the north east coast of the U.S..Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Visitor
But the bottom line is that if Detroit depended heavily on Canadian spending then more places would accept Canadian dollars. There doesn't need to be a campaign to tell business to do that. It's common sense.
NO, if only because for retailers figuring out the exchange rate would be a hairball. Currently, it's $1.23 Canadian for $1 U.S., and at that rate, I'm not going to give out U.S. coin for change, it would cost too much money, and I'm not going to convert it, it would cost too much time. I'm not going to keep two separate tills either. A retailers margins tend to be too low already, and the aspirin bill to large.
Besides, with Canadian dollars worth only about $.77 U.S., I doubt there would be much demand. Bring the topic up again when the currency is closer to par.
I'm not sure how figuring out the exchange rate is cumbersome, its on a few dozen easily accessible websites, and you change it for calculation purposes only when its materially different. [[ie. you don't bother reprogramming a cash register or changing what staff hand-calculate for ever .1c move either way; you adjust every . 5c or so, which typically is no more than twice per year.Quote:
Originally Posted by douglasm
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You don't have a second till. You simply slip the Cdn money under the tray the same way most stores do w/50s or 100s and you give change in US$.
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The argument as made elsewhere on this thread that since $CDN are not at critically important level of Michigan businesses this shouldn't happen is short-sighted. Toronto is not dependent on traffic from Buffalo but changes US$ in most [[not all) businesses. Its both a courtesy and good business and not a big deal when transactions are few; but may serve to generate more traffic going forward.
Note that it is not mandatory that Toronto businesses allow $USD as currency nor that Buffalo businesses do the reverse. Its mutually beneficial and entirely voluntary.
But yes, their are local 'Chambers of Commerce' or the like who 'encourage' the idea, and that's all that was really suggested by the OP.
Besides, most posters here continue to ignore the non-retail aspect to this. Which is that you want to attract cross-border investment. And I don't mean merely Tim Hortons franchises, LOL.
I mean factories, subsidiaries for Cdn firms wanting to market their US wares.
Those businesses can go to Buffalo, or Bellingham, OR Detroit.
Rolling out the welcome mat is just good business.
Bermuda has their currency pegged to the US dollar. What would be the implications for Canada to do that? Would it limit their budgetary and fiscal practices?
True.Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed
The reason they don't show up in the official population numbers referenced is because census counts for MSAs are based on commuting patterns. Most of those 6M+ people don't actually commute into Detroit proper for work, but rather Oakland County [[major Auto Suppliers / Chrysler), Macomb County [[GM / Defense Contractors) or suburban Wayne County [[Ford).
No, there should not be a push to make Detroit businesses take Canadian money. It is a silly idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermod
Starting by saying I'm not a FOREX expert.
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However, the Canadian Dollar was pegged to the USD for much of its history, with a few intermittent breaks. Typically at about US$1 = CDN$1.10 though it was set to parity for a time as well.
Its been floated since 1970.
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Pegging can only be done if a Nation has large FOREX reserves, particularly of the country you wish to peg to.
Canada currently has about $77B in reserves total, which I suspect, as a non-expert is far too low for that sorta thing.
Reserves of course can be amassed, but there are risks associated w/this, notably inflation.
I'm not sure that Canada would accrue a substantial advantage at the moment seeing as the dollar is trading in the range of .80c to the USD.
That should be reasonably attractive for exporters and tourism while still having reasonable buying power in the US market.
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Merging the currencies has been periodically discussed at the highest levels, but would be seen here as a loss of sovereignty and thus not particularly popular.
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Should add, the latter and/or pegging might cause some international issues, as the Cdn Dollar is now the 5th largest reserve currency in the world. [[Though...at only about 3% of global reserves, maybe not)
The inverse tripped you up; the Canadian dollar is at $1.25 to theUSDQuote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Visitor
Accepting Canadian currency only promotes cross border trade. In addition, it shows Detroit's connection to Canada. Third, it fosters the idea of Detroit being an international city connected to Canada. Not sure why people oppose this except if there is a feeling of exclusivity and the attitude.."why should we." When I travel internationally, you can use American dollars. I find it odd that Detroit businesses a stone throw from Windsor do not accept Canadian currency as if Canada is this far away distant land.
This topic is kind of pointless in the fact that most business' accept credit cards.
Yep. I hardly use cash anywhere anymore. I avoid using a debit card because I once had my pin stolen from a sucker transaction. They got 500 bucks from my bank account. I use my credit card non-stop and get refunds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffy
Exactly. I get cashback which is nice. I don't think I ever have more than $50 on me. I never used a debit card because why bother when you get cashback with a regular card and the whole fact that its coming directly out of my checking account bothered me. Then you have older people like my dad who only uses cash.Quote:
Originally Posted by canuck
After taxes Canadians don't have any money left!
Yes! That's why Sak's is currently building 3 Toronto stores, and Nordstrom is currently building 3 Toronto stores and Holt's [[Canada's homemade version of Saks) is currently building 1 new Toronto store and expanding 2 others).Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheels
That's also Why Toronto has 5 Whole Foods with 4 more being added.
Just a bit of hyperbole there Wheels.
Yes and Windsor is booming too!Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Visitor
Relevant to your statement about Canadians and taxes...how?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheels
Windsor's taxes [[income/sales/corporate) are the same as Toronto's.
Windsor is suffering through some of the same issues as Detroit, particularly around downsizing by the 'Big Three', particularly in the Windsor area.
It will recover, but that's not a function of personal taxation levels. That is an issue of trade policy, combined w/rapid automation in that employment segment.
It's actually reversed, it's you US folks that need the help...Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheels
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/23/up...abt=0002&abg=0
Or we simply don't care since the use of non-cash payments in Canada is among the highest in the world. ATM use and deployment here is forecast to be on the decline because of the wide acceptance of plastic.Quote:
Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit
I'm more likely to be stuck with US coins than Canadian. The only reason I have any CAD coins are for local parking meters.
You do get raped though on currency conversions on most Canadian credit cards unless it's a USD denominated card. The popular charge is an extra 2.5% on top of the currency conversion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffy
I personally use the Amazon.ca Visa. The currency conversion charge is 0%, and then for the actual currency conversion between USD and CAD they charge the Visa International rate which is typically very close to the spot rate.
This is pretty much all wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Visitor
There are some of these stores coming to Toronto but they are just replacing existing stores that are downsizing or shutting down [[so, for example, Hudsons Bay department store is downsizing and closing half their flagship store, so Saks is taking the empty space).
And your numbers are all wrong [[so, for example, there are 2 Toronto WF, not 9, there's one Toronto Saks, not 3, and Holt Renfew is not expanding; they are struggling and closing stores). Holt Renfew in particular is probably doomed with the entry of U.S. luxury retailers into Canada. They can't compete.
Toronto is a pretty good retail environment but generally doesn't have the retail offerings of similarly sized U.S. cities. Canadians don't spend as much on soft goods [[partly because they spend much more on real estate) and soft goods just cost more than in the U.S. That's why there are buses full of Ontario ladies visiting Somerset, even with the crappy conversion rate.
What about vending machines,portable ATMs and the little crane machines and such would they be also forced to comply? Are businesses going to be forced to comply or are they going to comply because of demand should it arise and it proves to be an additional revenue source.
The are some that make millions per day playing the currancy market and exchange fees,not sure if they would be willing to give that up easily.
But that does not say thinking out of the box for solutions is a bad thing or should be discouraged.
I've long since learned you as a poster are a troll and an ass and that you regularly demonstrate how ill-informed you are, or that you lie. Be that as it may I'll resist the temptation to make fun of you as a barely literate troglodyte and just correct your misinformation instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bham1982
First off, The Sak's going in on Queen St will occupy 150,000sq ft in a 1,000,000sq ft Hudson's Bay, occupying just under 1/2 of the basement and floors 1-3. The store is actually being expanded into some of the adjacent office space as well.
Second, Hudson's Bay profits are up and it hasn't closed a single location anywhere in the last several years.
Third, a Sak's store has already been announced for Toronto's Sherway Garden's mall [[store 2).
Nordstrom is already announced for Toronto's Eaton Centre, Yorkdale Mall and Square One in the adjacent suburb of Mississauga.
There will be more announcements, shortly.
Holt Renfew is building a new location at Square One, just opened an expanded location at Yorkdale, is maintaining its Sherway store and has announced plans to expand its Bloor Street flagship.
Just this morning the upscale dept store Simons from Quebec announced 2 new Toronto stores and is searching for d/t real estate.
And are you seriously suggesting these are replacing Target? Uhhhh [[Walmart, Lowes, Canadian Tire etc. are replacing some of the Targets, others will be torn down as they were crappy locations in the first place.) PS there was never a Target at Yorkdale or Sherway.
My numbers on Whole Foods are just a tad off....but
Whole Foods is open in Toronto's Yorkville area, and at Yonge/Sheppard and just finishing construction of one at Bayview and Eglinton; and has suburban stores in Markham, Mississauga, and Oakville and several others are imminent.
The Yorkville store is being expanded.
Eataly just announced their intention to be in Toronto shortly.
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None of the above is remotely on topic, nor was my previous post which was merely a rebuttal of earlier dubious implication [[by a diff. poster)
I don't come here to yap about Toronto except to compare notes on how things are done where useful and appropriate to a thread. But I don't take kindly to peopleblathering on in an insulting manner about my country with information that is variously wrong, outdated or crafted to be disingenuous.
There are many wonderful posters here, and many wonderful folks in Detroit; you are neither.
I do not have to go out on a limb on this one. Toronto is a fantastic city that has everything, incredible islands, parks, theater, food & drink places, sports; just a ton of things to do. But that's not why I am writing this post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Visitor
What Toronto and all of Ontario has that is second to none, including cities like Paris, New York , San Fran and anywhere else you can think of, is an unlimited supply of nice genuine friendly people. I could tell stories endlessly about how really kind the people are from Ontario. When you're at a hotel in the Caribbean and someone bought the happy hour beer buckets and is passing them out around the pool to everyone? They are from Ontario. [[Happened to me many times). The fact is, over and over, when we travel to warm destinations in the winter and we meet good people, more often than not they are Canadians. I dive, the wife does not. When we travel and I go on the dive boats by myself, who do I end up visiting with repeatedly? Yep, same answer. I can assure you that they are never from New York, but the New Yorkers are always there holding court for anyone who will listen about how everywhere else they have ever dove is better. Just a few weeks ago, we were at Movement in Detroit. Kids from all over the world and states were there. Again, the nicest ones we met this year were from Toronto. We were at a concert 5 years ago at the Air Canada Center and made friends with a kid that likes the same music as us one night. Now he is a friend of mine. Exchanged txts with him just this morning. People you meet and make fast friends? Only in Toronto, not so much in San Francisco. Oh they talk, but they are as shallow as a puddle. Ever walked into a bar during the Olympics when the Canadians are playing hockey? I have. Your money is useless. The guys from Ontario already have your tab covered. Nice people sitting next to you at a lions game wearing opposition colors? Again, if they're nice they are from Ontario. You're looking at your tourist map from the hotel in downtown Toronto, there is no chance somebody won't stop to help immediately. [[Again, been there) I was in a long line at a sandwich shop to get a picnic for the islands once, half the line helped plan our whole day itinerary. I couldn't believe it. It was their lunch break on a Friday and all they wanted to do was help us. The whole line! Try that in Paris or London and good luck. I have many more but Lowell wouldn't want me to use all his space.
Detroit has a full plate of problems to get to work on but our neighbors across the river in a foreign country are not one of them. The fact is, in the foreign neighbor department, we are truly blessed by the quality of the people and the country as a whole. There are very few cities in the world on an international border that can say that about the country on the other side.
The Anchor bar 450 W fort, they accept the funny money