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I came across a piece by conservative blogger David Frum [[former White House speechwriter and coiner of the phrase, "axis of evil") about Detroit, at NewMajority.com.
Frum gave me permission to reprint it at FreepOpinion.com, and I've blogged about it here:
http://www.freep.com/article/2009080...lled-Detroit?-
Frum's piece is a fascinating recount of our history, and then a taken on what went wrong and, finally, how we might fix things. I couldn't stop reading it..
Condescending portrayal of black migrants aside*, I thought it was a fairly good, thought provoking review of what went wrong in Detroit.
*Why are white migrants referred to as "working class" while the black migrants are portrayed almost as parasitic? -- "Like Chicago, Detroit attracted hundreds of thousands of black migrants between 1915 and 1960, mostly very unskilled, hoping to gain well-paying employment in factories and warehouses.
Their arrival jeopardized the ambitions of the white working class to raise its wages through unionization."
I did not find it very insightful or informed. I'm not surprised his former boss hired him.
"The second factor in Detroit’s decline is the city’s defiant rejection of education and the arts." Really? Because he doesn't think the DIA is as good as some other museums is a sign that Detroit rejects the art? And our huge theatre district... how does that show our rejection?
The reason is that the author of the article is a conservative [[[[[[[[[ known primarily for being a speechwriter for Bush and "famous" for coining the phrase "axis of evil".
I thought his observations about our cultural amenities was pretty dismissive, too.
But I also know that other folks who live in other cities often have the same reaction when they visit here.
It's an interesting piece and I have to say I fully support the end idea that for a city preservation is absolutely essential to a renewed future. Some of the history I think is a bit one sided I think there is more than enough blame to go around for what has happened to Detroit. And in many cases solid grit and determination among neighbors has been what has held many an enclave together in the city. But overall it was a very interesting read, and was way better than I expected it to be.
Well, who primarily supports the DIA? Detroiters or suburbanites?Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd_Scott
And can we please stop with the Detroit has a huge theater district crap? I love the claim that we are second to Broadway...lovely. Let's look at how ridiculous that claim is. We have 12 Theaters of over 500 seats...apparently that is the qualifier. "Broadway" has 40 and that isnt even counting "off broadway" venues.
So, tonight I'd like to go to a show in Detroit's 'second only to New York' Theatre district....what's playing? Fox has Jamie Fox... Masonic? Dark. City Theater? Some comedy jam. Opera house? closed for the season...see ya in october. Oh, I can go get hammered at the Filmore and the 93.1 riverfest concert.. Fisher nothing, but--..ooooh CATS IN 2010 sign me up!! Music Hall? Jazz cafe stuff [[which is kinda cool....you should go). Gem or Centtury? nothing. All I want to do is see Avenue Q...shouldnt I be able to do that in the 'second largest theater district in the country"?
Lets see about NYC ---- 31 different shows on and off Broadway tonight at 730 or 8. Weekends? add the matinees.
We have a few big theaters...yes. We rate a mid week stop on the national tour of most acts. Okay. A "theater district" "second only to Broadway"? no.
Interesting read, his observation about not having enough gays is nothing new. That hack Richard Florida has been preaching the code phrase, "Creative Class" for years. The issue isn't homosexuality in particular, but the lack of a gay friendly culture in general. Even a cursory understanding of Detroit's gay scene reveals a deeply subterranean environment. A quick glance at Supergay's web site shows how the whole city is on the DL with enclaves spread in tiny pockets around the city.
Just like the rest of Detroit's features, everything is spread around. You want to see some boobies? 8 mile, Michigan Ave., downtown, you can drive all over to find your favorite cup size. Casinos? Clustered in a central area so as to walk from one to another? Nope. Factories? Nope. Nice neighborhoods? Again you'll have to drive from Indian village to Berry, to Palmer Woods. Theater? Orchestra Hall, Music Hall, The Fox, ... can't walk between them, each one an island to itself.
These are zoning crimes that we continue to commit time and again. Augustus Woodward's Enfant interpretation was in place for about a week, then we changed our minds. It is a systemic pillar-to-post mind-set that we can't seem to shake. Just look at the People Mover and how its route snakes around like epileptic dervish. Coleman built it with a stop on the side of Cobo Hall only to expand the Hall 3 years later and forcing the architects to build around the damn thing.
Show up to a NAIS press preview when some big wig is premiering their newest model and right in the middle of the presentation Mr. Wig is shouting over train noise. Reporters from the world over look up and collectively think who would build a train track inside a convention hall. Madness.
What killed Detroit? ADHD.
DPW should replace fluoride with Ritalin just to keep us on task.
Coleman Young had a big hand in it. Very devisive. Drove a major wedge between the city and the 'burbs. Created an air of hate and dissent.
Detroit has a theatre district?
I normally abhor David Frum, and pretty much everything he stands for, but I have to say that some of this commentary is spot on. Especially when he talks about preservation of our city's history and built urban fabric. It's strange to me that one of the few things that recent African-American city administrations seem to have carried over from their white predecessors is a very outmoded mid-20th century view of how to deal with the past - i.e., tear it down and replace it with something new, even if that new thing is something clearly inferior, like a parking lot or yet another soon-to-be-empty strip mall. Or, since the old thing, any old thing, is useless anyway and will be torn down eventually, expend no resources trying to preserve it and just leave it there to rot and be pillaged.
Frum is also right about the nasty racial divide that holds this area back so badly, but his discussion of it seems way off the mark to me. He makes it sound like black people moved here specifically to steal the jobs of good, hard working, virtuous white people, or to get them some welfare, instead of coming here for exactly the same reason as white people - in an attempt to improve their lot in life. Also, like far too many white right-wing commentators, he essentially holds whites blameless for what happened when they got here. And act as if decades of outright discrimination in public treatment, employment, housing, public accommodation, law enforcement, lending, and so many other things didn't happen, or as if it was perpetrated by someone other than whites. And also to act like it shouldn't have been expected, like it was a surprise, that this pervasive, and often vicious, discrimination would cause a certain amount of anger, resentment, suspicion, and an opposite reaction to separate on the part of those subjected to it.
I also think he's more than a little off the mark when he talks about education and the arts. Perhaps because he doesn't fully understand our history. For instance, he sees the DIA in its present state and doesn't grasp the depth of its collections [[at least as good as Cleveland's). The arts, theater, and certainly education, once had a seriuos foothold here, but like so many other things the economic decline, the population decline, the racial divide, and the drain of money and the monied classes from the city have taken their toll.
The Detroit Public Schools were for many decades a model for the entire country as to how to educate masses of children from working class backgrounds. And what's now Wayne State, and was once Wayne University [[and part of the Detroit Public Schools) was very much a part of that story. Detroit stood second only to New York and its City University system in providing higher education to the children of manual workers. Much of the middle and upper middle class in this area, and indeed throughout the country, are products or the children and grandchildren of the products of that system. In fact, it could be, and has been, argued that the success of that system created some of the basis for its downfall, as the children of workers became educated and wealthier, and either moved out of the working class city to its suburbs or left the area altogether.
The world views Detroit as a ghetto caving in on itself. In general, I think we do too.
We will until Detroit starts doing something to improve itself. It did a little during the Archer era, but has gone back to it's old ways.Quote:
Originally Posted by RickBeall
very interesting read, thanks for posting.
Did enjoy the conservative Irish Catholic who blamed the city's problems on "not enough gays."
One quibble I have is his focus on urban renewal. Lots of cities obliterated historic buildings with urban renewal, freeways, etc. That's not unique to Detroit.
Also, by 1960 the problems were already evident. Sources as diverse as Jane Jacobs and Time Magazine noted the problems.
To everyone who continues to blame Coleman A. Young...
It is easier to point the finger at a man who spent 20 years attempting to keep the city afloat than to examine the root of the problems and those who are to blame. Mayor Young is a much more convenient target than our parents and grandparents who abandoned the city they claimed to love.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtf1972
By punching hundreds of holes in the hull while trying to build his own personal kingdom?
They abandoned it because Coleman Young decimated any power the police force previously had to maintain law and order, leading to increased crime, leading to decreased safety and lower property values.Quote:
Originally Posted by jtf1972
Of course, not all the blame goes to Coleman. The cross district school busing issue which came to a head shortly before that had a lot to do with the mass exodus as well. Nonetheless, the election of John Nichols and the maintenance of a strong police force minus the internal corruption that was the hallmark of the Young administration could have slowed down the decline considerably.
Detroit was losing tens of thousands of residents per year long before Coleman Young became mayor.Quote:
Originally Posted by EMG
Yes, the 1967 riots had a lot to do with that. But the rate accelerated exponentially after '74.
I would take issue as well with his rather cavalier views of Wayne State and education[[higher)_ no mention of UDM a fine institution. And WSU has educated countless Michiganians that have stayed and made the area better.
And the DIA is certainly on par with most other big city institutes. It is a matter of opinion what one prefers. The same applies to the DSO; the recordings on mercury living presence with Paul Paray are highly prized as well as those done later with Dorati at the United artists theater.
Coleman Young gets a bad rap. Detroit should be so lucky to have a mayor these days like Mayor young. I question whether many of you are old enough to remember young or just aping what you have been told.
What a salad-tosser. Nothing like seeing some Ivy league grad taking a cheap shot at Wayne State. F#$k him.
No aping here. I lived through it and saw what my parents lost in property value during the Young era. They were forced to cut their losses and run as the neighborhood I lived in went from a place where it was actually safe to walk the streets at night to a place where it became common to hear gunshots from a drug house down the block. When I bought my first house I made sure to buy in an area with a strong and responsive police force where criminals still go to jail no matter what their race - Grosse Pointe Woods. After both my grandparents and my parents lost out in Detroit, I wound up being the first in the family to actually make money on real estate.Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggyselbin
I personally saw Coleman execute the city for his own personal gain.
Did you forget about his custom built armored limosine? His personal police force?
Amen! I am also a classical music fan and have some great recordings by the DSO with Dorati, including one of Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture which as far as I am concerned is the standard by which all others shall be judged - and I've yet to hear one which comes to a more rousing ending.Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggyselbin
And I have also yet to find a performance of the Nutcracker ballet which I've liked as much as the Detroit ones I used to see in the 80's.
Actually, I did forget about those, and actually I think anyone in his position should be entitled to that sort of protection. But I sure remember the corruption in the police department and the scandals surrounding his police chiefs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddle
Regarding Coleman Young, I do not remember him, but you might find this comment that was left on my blog from a Detroit native and currently a city planner in the Chicago area interesting. NB: He is African American:
I know Detroit very well, having grown up there. I visit 1-2 times a year. I've only been to Cleveland 2 or 3 times, but it has always struck me as being very similar to Detroit in its built environment and its local culture. I think that the only real difference between Detroit and Cleveland was the diversity of the manufacturing sector -- Detroit was/is very auto-dominant, while Cleveland's manufacturing base was a little broader. Still, both suffered the same decline.
To me, there are three overarching factors that led to the decline of both cities. The first is poor race relations. Detroit and Cleveland both had dynamic/charismatic/controversial black mayors who entered City Hall at the same time the wheels were coming off the industrial sector [[the late '60s and early '70s). Coleman Young and Carl Stokes [[like many first-generation African-American politicians) ran on an "it's our turn" platform that was especially alienating to the white-ethnic middle class, largely because African-Americans had never really been a part of the power or establishment structure prior to their elections. And neither mayor was willing or able to be inclusive in their governance once in office; in fact, I don't believe either was effective in governing [[and I say this as an African-American). I believe that Young and Stokes were the impetus that gave the white-ethnic middle class the reason to not only move from the city, but to eradicate it from their consciousness. Yes -- eradicate it from their consciousness. Those who fled for the burbs in both cities psychologically and emotionally abandoned them. Does any city have worse city-suburban relations than these two? [[As an aside, I think the one thing that kept Chicago from falling like Detroit and Cleveland was the leadership of Richard J. Daley and the political Machine. Chicago held onto its white-ethnic middle class far longer than either Detroit or Cleveland, because that group had confidence in their leadership. I think that enabled Chicago to make its transition to globalization much easier.)
The second factor is education. I would argue that both Cleveland and Detroit established public school systems in the late 1940s that were designed to give its graduates the rudimentary skills needed to survive in the industrial world. And they're still doing that today. And I don't limit this to just the city public school systems -- many suburban school systems follow the same pattern. The result? An ever-growing base of residents without true analytical or problem-solving skills, or even the desire to examine and question, "why?" This becomes compounded when in-migration comes to a stand-still.
The third factor is culture -- which may actually supercede and impact the first two. There is little to no entrepreneurship in either city. There is little leadership by the industrial/corporate titans in either city. There are so many people still waiting for the return of good-paying, low-skilled manufacturing jobs in both cities. Why? There are so many people chasing the same empty dreams that other cities are pursuing? Why?
------------------------
Second post from this person in the same thread:
I think some people misunderstand my points on how race is an issue in Cleveland and Detroit. Let me see if I can clarify.
First, I said race was an issue, not the issue. Clearly other cities have had horrid race relations problems [[Cincinnati, Indianapolis, Chicago, Milwaukee come to mind), but few cities had the up-front challenge to the political and cultural establishment by African-Americans that Detroit and Cleveland did in the late '60s and early '70s. In both cities, new administrations upset the applecart and completely disrupted the status quo.
This I believe led to accelerated suburban flight, and a psychological abandonment of the city by those moving out. Why is this psychological abandonment important? Because it leads to the bad image problems both cities have. All of a sudden, Detroit is not the "Arsenal of Democracy" anymore, it is the home of devastating riots and "murder capital of the world". Cleveland has a river that catches fire and a government that goes belly-up. What suburbanite wants to be associated with that? The new suburbanites mentally vacated Detroit and Cleveland even moreso than physically. I read recently that over the last 15 years or so, 1 out of 7 burial plots in Detroit cemeteries have been disinterred and relocated to places closer to the suburban or out-of-state locales where people are now. Can there be a clearer picture of psychological abandonment? You team that social challenge with the industrial decline of the time, the poor quality education, and a culture that doesn't nourish entrepreneurial energy, and you have a recipe for disaster.
Lastly, here's my provocative statement. If Chicago, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Milwaukee had gotten the same kind of charismatic/controversial African-American mayor in the late '60s or early '70s, they would each have precisely the same problems that Detroit and Cleveland have today.
He is certainly right about colleges. Wayne is, okay... but pales in comparison. If we could at least get Wayne in the top 75 university US News & World Reports, it could help the city in a major way.
A more restrained and better trained police force, meaning a lack of police thuggery towards the city's black citizens, and the outright murder of dozens of them, might have helped as well. But it was the long history of police nastiness aimed at blacks that created so much of the tension.Quote:
Originally Posted by EMG
The author of those blogs fails to consider the alternative to Coleman Young and the climate of the time. [[I am not as familiar with the history of Cleveland.) I have actually known people in the Detroit suburbs who blame Young for the riot, not taking into account that he first took office nearly 7 years later. I do not intend to slander Nichols, but if he had won in '73 he would likely have continued STRESS. That alone was a program that practically invited another riot. The overwhelmingly white management of city departments led to a tension that caused the head of the Dept. of Public works to blow up at the Mayor's budget meeting even before Young took office. The white flight mad been increasing for years. Even the Lions & Pistons had made their plans to run far away.
Could Young have done more? Sure. Could anyone else have? I don't know. The "What if?" game that can really be played is "What if Richard Austin had been elected in '69?" Gribbs did well in many regards [[other than losing the Lions & Pistons!) But he was pressured into running against Austin and didn't even want to run for a second term. I've wondered what Detroit would have been like had Austin been Mayor...
That is an interesting blog. However Mayor Young did have many whites in his administration.In fact he deliberately made a point to be inclusive in his administration.
I don't mean to say he was the best Mayor ever; only that he gets a bad rap and is often conveniently blamed for much of Detroit's problems.
Any reasonable person would probably agree that crime became a huge problem beginning in the young tenure. However how many of you are familiar with the fact that young negotiated a tough contract with the police union?. And that the admin lost in arbitration forcing massive layoffs.Prior to that there had been a noticable reduction in crime and a downtown upturn.
I have heard that citizens that called on mayor young often got prompt response to their concerns. When is the last time anyone knows of that.....in any city?
As I said I don't claim young to be the greatest mayor ever but things are complicated and it seems way too easy to blame him.
One thing I will never forget [[or forgive) Young for is that he was the first Detroit mayor to plaster his name on everything. Very soon after he was elected, all the buses had "Coleman A. Young, Mayor" stuck over the doors, and they weren't covering up the "Roman G. Gribbs, Mayor" stickers. Aside from costing money, it was pointless egomania, which actually is kind of representative of his administration.
I still say the automobile companies had a hand in destroying detroit. Bailey had mentioned that everything is so spreaded out that you couldn't walk to them. That is because you have to get into you CAR and drive to them. That is the way the Big Three operates. Especially in the Motor City. This is a car town. I hate to admit it. That is why Detroit did not come to the table recently for mass transit throughout the region. Dave Bing is a puppet for the remaining Big 2.. We had a thriving downtown and a retail business district in almost every neighborhood. I decent market every 5 blks. You could walk to the things. In the past 30 yrs or so everything had moved outward. Look at it. The suburbs has or had a thriving business district that it's residents could walk to. Detroit doesn't. That is why visitors get put off having to find a way to go out to a good retail district. Usually they would have to rent a CAR to drive outward.
Note he says, "Preservation is as vital to urban health as renovation. Indeed, they are inseparable. The preservation of the old incubates the new."
Too bad nobody in power here seems to agree; it's yet another thing distinguishing us from other Rust Belt cities like Buffalo and Cleveland.
You're kidding, right? Well, Detroit HAD a theatre district. Most of it has been leveled. In fact, Detroit has had a couple. The area around the National Theatre was its first before it "sprawled" north to Grand Circus Park.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddle
Turn Wayne, or some parts of it into UM-Detroit. Have an honors program to attract the big brains. Let students from UM-AA do a year in Detroit. Cross-pollinate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Detroit500
Q: What killed Detroit?
A: The decline in manufacturing due to the export of factories from Detroit and the Free Trade importation of foreign products.
Everything that Frum mentioned is merely a side effect of this.
Clinton's NAFTA plan had destroyed Detroit. City leaders should had concentrated on bringing other industries and companies to Detroit when signs of the decline of auto industry was showing in the 60's
It started long before Clinton [[and continued after him), and the leaders of Detroit couldn't have been any more successful than the leaders of any other city. I don't disagree with you, statsu1213, but I just think it is a much greater problem. Our federal government has allowed this to happen, under the auspices of the American Consumer.
I've heard whites play that "what if" game with Austin. In Austin they would have gotten a moderate black man that whites would have been happy with. The city was rapidly turning majority black so I doubt if Austin would have beaten Young to get a second term . I maintain that the economic forces affecting the city were more than any one mayor could contain. Politically, Young played to his base like the mayors of the border suburbs played to theirs.Quote:
Originally Posted by jtf1972
"I do not intend to slander Nichols, but if he had won in '73 he would likely have continued STRESS. That alone was a program that practically invited another riot. The overwhelmingly white management of city departments led to a tension that caused the head of the Dept. of Public works to blow up at the Mayor's budget meeting even before Young took office. The white flight mad been increasing for years. Even the Lions & Pistons had made their plans to run far away."
quote Jtf
You're right those forces were already in motion, blacks were unhappy with attitudes that people like John Nichols had and the segregation going on within the city limits. For those whites that hated Coleman Young they created the conditions that allowed the man to come in and spend 20 years in office.
Firstandten, you raise an interesting point, that the folks that kept Coleman in office were the ones that hated him the most. Or, the haters galvinized Coleman supporters thereby turning Young into the icon he is today.
I can see your point. In Zev Chafets' 1990 book Devil's Night and Other True Tales of Detroit, the author wrote at length about the cult of personality surrounding Young and comparing him to a third-world dictator. In politics 101 we learned that some leaders stay in power through a ballance of consensus and conflict. To generate consensus a leader will invent a crisis; that crisis can be in the form of a threat from either the inside or outside. Coleman was a master at inventing conflict where none existed, thereby galvinizing his poticial base through a code-speak he largely invented.
A poor attempt at building consensus through conflict was Kwame's N-word speexh at the State of the City. Whereas Coleman was artful, Kwame was awful in dipping down into the collective well of cultural violations. People didn't believe that he'd been verbally assaulted that way, because everyone knew no one could have fought through his phallanx of EPU bodies to hurl an N-bomb. His almost shaking rage served to pursuade a few of his most ardent kool-aid sippers, but eventually most of them would turn silent as the facts began to trickle out one texted letter at a time.
Coleman used Bubba Helms masterfully. With a little help for an AP photog, Coleman was able to turn Bubba into not just a drunken lout but rather the commanding general of those armed suburbanites who were massing on the Detroit's borders.
It would have been interesting if Bill Bonds had tried to kiss Coleman rather than challenge him to a fight.
At the risk of throwing myself to the wolves s.t.r.e.s.s. gets a bad rap. And again I would ask how many actually remember or have jusr heard or read accts of it?
I was quite young but not so young that I don't recall. Stress was I believe successful in curtailing armed robberies. The persons shot by the dpd were in the process of robbing police decoys. The problem now is how can we get an accurate account of what happened? My account is what I remember but it is no more valid then another.
The history of racism and violence toward blacks in Detroit also must be taken into account. So it is understandable that coleman young would be skeptical of stress and the intentions of those implementing it.
But when some homeowner in Detroit shoots an intruder the sentiments of this forum for example often side with that homeowner. So why is stress such a bogeyman?
There's a book out there written by former Police Chief Johannes Spreen, titled Who Killed Detroit. He came on board just after the '67 riots. A terrible read, in that it sounds like he sat down with a Radio Shack cassette player and recorded his memories, but still interesting in its detail and backstory.
Just a stories about Nick Hood jr and Shelia Murphy-Cockrel are worth the price of the book.
Spreen invented STRESS and orginally concieved it as a community policing thing. A old fashioned Beat-Cop approach with a see-and-be-seen premise.
I've been told that the STRESS scooped up enough good guys on their way to church as they did punks looking for trouble. Essentially it was viewed as an occupying force. However, I didn't live here at the time, so my opinion should be discounted.
When I had heard Kwame use the "N' word the first thing I had thought was who had called him that. Was it whites or other blacks being that blacks called each other that at times. Kwame wasn't clear of whom had called him that under what content
Who was STRESS invented for. The protection of whites living in detroit from black muggers? Was it protecting citizens no matter what creed or color the citizens are. In some cases STRESS was an excellent idea if undercover cop discrimated the bad suspicious looking characters from the good citizens mind their businesses. We need a form of STRESS in this city presently. That will cut down on some of the crime for the potential criminal will not be able to distinguish a potential victim from an undercover.
Coleman Young is what wnet wrong with Detroit and the Democrats that followed. Their gang of thieves had no oversight and took what they wanted. He allowed the black people to drive out the whites and told them to stay the other side of eight mile road! His followers, JoAnn Watson is still practicing what he preached and is another the keep Detroit divided. The city workers under Coleman Young treated whites badly and they got away with it - No all, but most Detroiters seem to feel the city is "theirs" and stay out. Well now you see what the Dems and Coleman Young did to a once beautiful city. It is shameful. Even if you don't have money, you can keep your property clean and look at what they do now, every day to Belle Isle. It is a trash yard. Detroiter's have no sense of ownership and how to take care of things they are like animals!
STRESS took undercover policing to a new level. Johannes Spreen who I thought was a good man who had an bad idea. STRESS was judge, jury and executioner out in the streets. It was primarily in the black areas of the city. You don't create the conditions for people to commit a crime and then once that crime is committed shoot them down in the streets which essentially what STRESS was. Any politican pushing any form of policing that even sounds a little like STRESS can kiss their political career in Detroit bye-bye.Quote:
Originally Posted by stasu1213
is this a joke?Quote:
Originally Posted by jtf1972
Everyone knows that Coleman didnt kill Detroit.
According to most of you, it was the
Unsustainable Suburbs
Mike Illitch
George Jackson
and Andy from the other website
They are the ones!
Its different watching a policewoman acting as a woman of the night on 8 mileQuote:
Originally Posted by ziggyselbin
and somebody dressed as a drunken bum laying out in a dark alley at night. Two different levels of undercover policing.
Coleman Young had actually said that the pimps, dopepushers and others who are bad for detroit hit 8 mile road. He had never said that whites hit 8 mile road. The people in my community are disillused
No one has "killed detroit" it is still very much alive. There are abundant buildings to scrap, endless drugs to buy and sell right out in the street openly, lots of cars to steal, anything goes. You name it, do it here. So to say detroit is dead is patently untrue. Nurture, embrace and love it. Look out, this baby bites.
^ :eek:
Sounds like Detroit needs to be killed.
um, the automobile killed detroit-duh
I for one would agree and hate to say it but the Auto did have a great deal in the demise of this city.I come from a large family that has their roots in the city.But most of them left before the riots and before CAY. I had a simular disscussion with a cousin about this subject a long time ago.I said race relations made people leave Detroit. My fathers side was from Kentucky/West Virgina they were the first to go leaving my Grandma till 1979 when a man was caught in her bushes and that was that.But as my mothers side lasted in the city till 1987 there was a shadow coming over the city as well as the burbs. I will say it as anyone can figure out,If you have your workers moving to the burbs cause their job is there, they aint gonna miss the city with its crime and such. And if they were white and didn't like blacks Hell that would be a Godsend to them.
I will say this Colman did not help things IMO it was always the City VS the burbs.
I myself am only 40, yet I do remember chain grocery stores in the city as well as other stores, thriving churches and other things. AND WITH THAT my memories are only 35 yrs old to say the least.And for the most part Whites and Blacks lived amougst one another.Sad to say it when my Grandparents left 20 yrs ago I thought while they might be closer to where I live I will miss the old neighborhood.2o yrs later I have those same thoughts.
The decline of Detroit is multi-fold. Coleman Young is far from being the "killer" of Detroit. On the contrary, I think one of Young's crowning achievements was balancing the police force racially. Given the hostility that Young and other blacks experienced by a predominantly white police force over several decades, Young's initiative to bring more blacks into the police force and promote more black officers was his way to quell the hostility between blacks and the mostly white DPD, especially following the riots.
However, when Young promoted black officers whose scores on police exams were lower than white officers, in order to balance command ranks, he created a backlash from not only white officers but white citizens who saw Young's "affirmative action" as "reverse discrimination." For many whites, if Young, a black mayor, was doing this to white police officers, then it was only a matter of time before he would start taking jobs away from them in other city departments. Having blacks in positions of power made many white Detroiters nervous and so many decided to leave the city.
In conclusion, I just want to say that many leaders from Detroit's past, as well as Michigan's past, have made poor decisions regarding the "best laid plans" for Detroit." Truly the blame game covers thousands.
What Killed Detroit?
1. Political reformation of the late 1800s. The People of Detroit are sick and tired of corporate and political greed coming from its city council and its district wards. So Mayor Hazen S. Pingree had to clean all of their mess.
2. District wards corruption due to politicians buying votes from its supporters. The Ward system was eliminated and City Council by Detroit voters was established.
3. Segregation: When an influx of Blacks came to Detroit via Great Black Migration, they wanted to find work and homes. But the white folks don’t want any blacks to live in their areas. Therefore Black folks were confined in Black Bottom, Paradise Valley, Soul Town at Tireman Ave. and Beechwood St, and W. 8 Mile Rd. near the Royal Oak TWP. border.
4. The Demarcation Wall: When developers build new Detroit sub-divisions of Green Acres, Sherwood Forest and Palmer Woods, the developers build a 5 ft concrete wall separating the black community from the white community.
5. Suburban Development in the 1950s: When the Levittownesque cookie cutter sub-divisions were being developed. White folks, mostly from Detroit, started to move over to those areas causing the population to decline.
6. Freeway Development: When Urban freeways were being developed it allow more whites from Detroit to move quickly to the suburbs The term “White Flight” begins.
7. New Malls: When Northland Mall and other Malls were being developed. People of Detroit headed out to those places instead of shopping in their own mom and pop stores in their Detroit neighborhoods. The Result: most mom and pop retail strips in some Detroit areas were disappearing within 10 to 40 years.
7. The Automobile and Manufacturing best land offers: According to Wayne State University History of Michigan Professor Hyde, He contended that when the suburbs offered land space to Ford, Chrysler, General Motors and others dirt cheap, they started to build their factories out there. The Result: Warren, Sterling Heights, Livonia has GM and Chrysler had their plants; Wixom and Willow Run in Van Buren has Ford while Detroit started to lost its manufacturing base. This is due to higher city taxes in the 1950s the cheaper taxes in the suburbs.
8. The Demolition of Black Ghettos: When the White controlled Detroit City Council wanted to demolished all of Paradise Valley and build the Chrysler FWY, Blacks relocated themselves other mostly white Detroit neighborhoods.
9. The Jewish/Black Exodus: After Paradise Valley became “Paradise Lost!” the relocated blacks followed mostly the Jews to other Detroit neighborhoods from West of Woodward to the borders of Northwest Detroit and Later to Oak Park, Southfield, Lathrup Village, the Northern parts of Farmington Hills and parts of West Bloomfield and Bloomfield TWP. JJaba contended that a organized Jewish community will moved to another community every twenty five years. The Ghettoman contended that as long as the Jews have a local synagogue to walk to in order to observe their weekend fast of Shabbot, The Jews will remain in their community.
10. Detroit Real Estate Urban Steering: In the 1960s to make more profits to lure whites to the suburbs, real estate agents hired black kids to ride their bikes into mostly white neighborhoods, making them to sell their houses right away.
11. The Curse of 1967: When the 1967 riot started from a “Blind Pig” raid at a corner bar located to 12th St. and Clairmont Street, hundreds of rioters loot and burned down thousands of homes and businesses. The Hardest Hit. Along 12th Street North of W. Grand Blvd, Dexter Ave, along the northern sector of Grand River Ave. towards 6 Mile Rd. at the Old Redford Area, E Jefferson Ave. to Alter Rd. and Mack Rd. near the Grosse Pointe Woods border near the Morningside and East English Village area. And parts of Mack Ave. from E. Grand Blvd. to Conner Rd. The Result more whites leaving Detroit in accelerated numbers.
12. STRESS: When Mayor Roman Gribbs developed an undercover Detroit Police tactic all Stop The Robberies, Enjoy Safe Streets in the 1970s, lots of Detroiters were in pat downs from Detroit Police Officers disguised as ordinary citizens.
13. The Young Years: When Coleman A. Young became Detroit’s first Black mayor in 1973, He Told all the crooks and thieves to“ Hit 8 Mile Road!” He cancelled STRESS, start programs to have low-income residents buy or rent Detroit homes and businesses, started Mini Beats, cut Detroit Police Depts. He tried to lure black entrepreneurs to Downtown Detroit but that didn’t work, Engage in the Chrysler Loan Guarantee Act of 1979, Assist with the Dodge Main Plant that cause from all of Poletown to be town demolished. After he left the city Detroit was in worse shape and Downtown Detroit become an instant ghost town.
14. The OG era: The various Detroit Gangs like the Young Boys Inc, The Coney Onlies and Black Killers ruled the Ghettos of Detroit, everyone feared them for they would kill anyone who steps in the way.
15. Detroit became office majority black city after 1975.
16. The Mangoonian Party era: By the 21st Century years after Kwame Kilpatrick was elected Mayor of Detroit, He mostly partied rather than doing city business. He started an alleged stripper party at the Manoogian Mansion that resulted of several conflicts from his wife Carlita, who called the police chiefly Gerry Brown and his deputy. Kwame fired them for what he claimed that they broke his chain of command. Kwame hires his friend Wayne County Prosecutor Mike Cox to investigate the party. After the investigation he ruled it was “ urban legend” and no charges had been made. Former Detroit Police Chief Brown and hid former deputy filed a whistleblower lawsuit against Mayor Kwame. The case want bizarre when Brown’s attorneys asked Kwame and Christine Beatty that did they have an alleged relationship. Each of them said no. By January of 2008 The Detroit Free Press released an article claiming that Kwame did have a relationship with Beatty through text messages. The whole City of Detroit and suburbs were shocked. Kwame apologizes on local T.V. from his church, but some people don’t buy it. Later Wayne County Prosecutor Kim Worthy charge Kwame and Beatty with perjury and obstruction of justice, Later both of them got a plea deal get some jail time and pay $1,000,000 in restitution. Kwame’s plea deal calls from resignation as Mayor of Detroit and no to run for re-election for any political office until 2013. He accepts the plea deal. Beatty plea deal calls for some jail time and restitution not to engage in city business. She accepts.
So what Killed Detroit? All of Us!
Danny,
That is the most comprehensive summary of Detroit's exodus I have ever seen.
Thank you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroit
Finally! Amen brother! I'd also like to add the fact that we are a one industry town that never realized that it should not have all its eggs in one basket. This does not mean we should abandon manufactuing technology, but we need to have things other than that. Our house of cards has toppled.
After "67" and going into the 70's the influx of drugs coming into the city was terrible. Of course this destablized the black community. One example was that there use to be many black owned party stores and other types of shops. With the increase in crime which always comes with drugs many store owners were robbed and a few were murdered in their stores. Some tried to counteract it by putting up the bulletproof glass we see in just about every store today. But since about this time the Chaldean community was beginning to assert itself economically, many blacks sold there stores to them many time for cash. And if the black store owner had a liquor license he got a premium price for it. Today you see very few black party store/grocery story owners in the city.
The Chaldean "mafia" had taken over the party stores, supermarkets, coneys, gas stations and now more recently dollar stores, soul food joints catering to the 'hood, in which they'll never eat what they sell to customers. And if you saw a black owned establishment in these recent years, you don't see it anymore. Black business owners were muscled out by these folk who for years have kept a very low profile. I was told by a few black party store owners I had gotten to know on a first name basis as one would normally do, that they were given ultimatums by who they wouldnt say, out of fear it seemed. Guess who was in the location not much longer after it closed?Quote:
Originally Posted by firstandten
These people hate black folks, I've heard 'em say it out loud but yet they make the money off of the people they hate. Not all come across as like that but most do.
That's right psbpm,
The Chaldeans do run the ghetto marts in Detroit ghettohoods sometimes selling out of date products to black folks and gyp them out of their change; stablizing the black communities into a point of no return and no hope.
WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET
There's smart and there's G-Mart smart.
In Memoriam: Neda Soltani
I wish I would've caught on to this thread a little sooner. I blogged about something similar and hopefully not off-topic.
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