Just heard from a friend about the damage suffered by St. Josaphat Church during the storms on Sunday night. And rumors are spreading that the church building might have to be torn down.
The Michigan Catholic posted this article with photo:
http://themichigancatholic.com/2013/...at-in-detroit/
Deadline Detroit added some historic perspective in their coverage:
http://www.deadlinedetroit.com/artic...ng_in_the_wind
I saw this and it made me real sad. That church is gorgeous and losing it would be absolutely terrible. Hopefully the community can band together and figure out how to get this situation fixed. That wind on Sunday was absolutely ridiculous to say the least...
:eek:
http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2013/11/...etroit-church/
im frankly amazed that more of our historic steeples are not damaged/destroyed more often since few have received any maintenance since....uhhh....whenever.
go look up at Sweetest Heart of Mary's steeples. they have had an odd twist to them for years....
i guess we can be thankful that no stained glass windows have been reported to be blown in [[yet). god knows we lost a couple windows at Historic Fort Wayne.
Didn't Sacred Heart lose its steeple a few years ago?
I always thought the oddness of Sweetest Heart of Mary's steeples was a perspective trick on the part of the architect
I would expect the church to call their insurance company. Based on that photo, though...I think the folks working in the rumor mill might want to find some hobbies--you don't tear down an entire church just because one steeple is leaning.
Why would they repair these when the Detroit ArchDiocese can ship millions to build a museum in DC or send millions and millions to the Vatican to settle lawsuits and keep the Vatican leadership pampered in the style they 'deserve'Quote:
Originally Posted by WaCoTS
I agree with you. I've seen much, much worse damage to much older church steeples and they were reconstructed/repaired.Quote:
Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto
I have a colleague that attends church there. He said last summer when they were merging SHM, St. Joe's, & St. Josaphat, there was talking of only keeping the St. Josaphat building open as it was the one that was most structually sound.
yeah there is no danger of having to demolish the church. what will happen is, they will say "ok, we dont have money for a new steeple, so we're capping it off with a flat roof." done.
Losing a steeple is not new. St. Albertus lost a steeple 100 years ago.
St. Paul's Episcopal Cathedral on Woodward has an awkward looking flat roof where a huge steeple was supposed to be.
they never got the money together to finish it.
Image of Cram's original drawings for the Cathedral of St. Paul Episcopal Church circa 1905.Quote:
Originally Posted by WaCoTS
yeah, i think they have those framed, hanging in their modern lobby wing.
but i think the bigger issue here is, what will all the suburbanites do now, without this landmark to guide them and tell them they are on the right track to get downtown? i have already been contacted by several panicky friends from Oakland County who will be totally helpless without this "recognized aid to navigation" present. :D
While it will be a shock to some folks, I'm sure that the spire will not be missed THAT badly. If your friends are despairing that much, perhaps they can donate to restore that steeple to it's original height, to point their way downtown?Quote:
Originally Posted by WaCoTS
To be quite honest, I'm sure that a replica can be constructed and placed on the church quite easily with a helicopter. If they have the original plans, even better. It is made with wood and clad with shingles, after all. Relatively inexpensive to create, I'd think.
uhhh....i was just kidding.........
This is the church with that horrid mural of WWI, right?!
I'd help them tear that down.
Use the sarcasm font next time? Or this?Quote:
Originally Posted by WaCoTS
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/...rcMark-002.jpg
Not so farfetched....Quote:
Originally Posted by WaCoTS
Many folks enjoy driving down I-75 and seeing how St. Josaphat church lines up with the Renaissance Center. Many photographers have taken the shot.
Check out gsgeorge's Gods and Automobiles posting with photo!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gsgeorge/327826652/
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...text|FRONTPAGE
theyre confirming that it will have to be removed and capped.
parishioners will be sent to Sweetest Heart & St Joe's til further notice. im waiting to hear about a fundraiser to cover the repair cost....those 3 parishes dont exactly have a lot of members.
The original entry on this threat sounded like a lead in for a fox news lead in: Th St. Josaphat Steeple Damaged in Storm - Church Building in Jeopardy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by p69rrh51
The flat-out design probably had to do with the Episcopalians' not wholly trusting God's benevolent hand in protecting his residence from nature's wrath...
St. Boniface also lost a steeple
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...roit_c1910.jpg
http://www.hal.state.mi.us/argusimag...0/9576524b.jpg
And then it was demolished in the mid 90's
Wasn't that the one Tom Manahan ripped down by tiger stadium to make more from parking? Why thats something evey good catholic architectural buff does!Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitHabitater
Don't like the Church? Don't be a Catholic. Very simple. I don't belong to any group I dislike.Quote:
Originally Posted by jt1
Sad as I find it, there are too many Catholic Churches in Detroit [[even after other rounds of closings) relative to the number of parishoners. I worship weekly at Old St. Mary's, but occasionally visit a half dozen others around downtown and environs. I know quite a few people do that [[I see some faces at more than one church). Where possible it would be nice to see physically stable church buildings remain in service to the community in some way, whether as houses of worship, small schools, community centers, businesses. But old churches have expensive maintenance and operation costs. I have a feeling 20 years from now there will be far fewer church structures [[and not just Catholic churches) around town. I would love to be wrong on that.
The last iconic building remaining from old Hastings Street. Shame to see it altered in any way. Almost nothing survived after the 1960s, thanks to them putting in the public housing and the freeway.
If I'm right, you can make out the church in the background of this album's cover, a view from Hastings Street in the 1950s.
This would be priceless history in New York, San Francisco, London, etc. But here? Eh, not profitable. We can't subsidize buildings the market doesn't want. [[Though we can spend lots of public money to clean it up once it's ruined.)
http://www.raucousrecords.com/produc...-modern-cd.jpg
But that is 'their' history so it isn't as important and during the 50s/60s was better just being removed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Detroitnerd
Of all the dumbass urban planning moves in the region, removal of Hastings Street has to be one of the worst. They could have easily routed I-75 a few blocks east, though mostly industrial land.
I bet if Hastings were around today, even if only semi-intact, would be among the hottest streets in the region.
Mikey, Detroit, like many other aging, heavily Catholic cities suffers from the "you can't closed the church my Grandmother was married in!" syndrome. Folks love to praise the glorious architecture and history of the old city churches -- which they may visit once a year at most -- whilst attending [[and paying thithes to) the sprawling, uninspired mega-churches of the suburbs the live in. A church is a parish, and a parish is a neighborhood. To them I answer: "If you love St. X---'s church so much, why did you abandon the neighborhood thirty years ago?"Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn
Cleve, I completely agree. The unmanageable cost of keeping the old buildings standing will eventually cause many more to be torn down: the wayward steeple is not the only structural deficiency in a downtown church building. And I understand people's emotional attachment to their ancestral churches. My Mom has stated her desire to have her funeral mass [[note: she's fine and this is not anticipated anytime soon) at the upstate NY church she was baptized and married in, although she hasn't been a parishoner there in 40 years. And I do not begrudge people who stopped going to their old churches and switched to new ones in the suburbs. At the end of the day a church doesn't exist for the architecture. Praying in a cheap, new suburban church is just as holy as praying in a marble and stained glass temple downtown. But I have emotional feelings, colored with nostalgia and love of beautiful old buildings like churches. I hope as many as possible that don't remain active parishes can be repurposed.
I think it's safe to say that if you and I agree on something, it must be incontrovertible!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bham1982
I could easily see Hastings Street as a Bourbon Street-style attraction, with entertainment venues, bars, shops and restaurants. Too bad our city fathers used urban freeway construction to advance their agendas.
i heard Father Kohn[[?) talking on WDET today about it...theyre confirming its going to take some fundraising to do the needed repairs.
Mikey, I share your affection for older, urban church buildings. I've seen smaller ones repurposed into galleries, performance spaces, and even a one-room schoolhouse. But the larger ones are, well, too much like churches to be practical to be used as anything else. Of course, one only need look down Jefferson or Woodward to see churches which are still in use, just under a different denomination.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn
I can see the spire of St. Josephat from my living room window -- I will miss that sight if the steeple is removed.
FYI, Joe Kohn works for the michigan catholic, but is not a priest.Quote:
Originally Posted by WaCoTS
Drone Cam Visits The Condemned St. Josaphat Steeple, A Familiar Detroit Landmark
From Deadline Detroit . . .
http://www.deadlinedetroit.com/artic...o1wqM.facebook
Joe Kohn is the Director of Public Relations for the Archdiocese.Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitHabitater
yeah i wasnt sure if i had the right name
Am I overreacting or does this really fucking suck?
I'm not anywhere near Metro Detroit right now but it doesn't sound like there will be anything left when I get back. Between arson, demolition, and weather, all I'm envisioning are some grey strip malls in Warren and some "upscale" subdivisions in Birmfield or whatever place you guys were murdering each other over a week ago.
Do we really not give a shit about our built environment and history that much?
I mean, this thing is a landmark. It's not only iconic but it is part of our shared heritage. There are 1.5 million [[!) Catholics living in Metro Detroit - one out of every three people - and we can't find some way to save this steeple?
What's this shit about a flat roof? That steeple lets me know I'm home. Before people start going off about not saving the grandparents' churches and whatnot, I still live in the old neighborhood and go to the old parish. Both are hanging in there, thank you.
I don't know how to make a website - that's for those schmucaktelli nerds - but if I did I would make one to save, restore, or replicate that steeple. I'll be the first to write a check if I know they're going to fix that fucker.
There's no lack of companies that can do this work. It only takes money to do it, and the will to get it done.Quote:
Originally Posted by poobert
I'd be willing to pony up a few bucks, but it's on the church itself for the collection of funds. I'm not just handing money off to someone that purports to represent the interest of St. Josephat. When the time comes, they'll tell us, I'm sure.
Poobert... as you know, I'm not exactly your friend when it comes to your posting style... but here... I think you're spot on! :cool: Since the steeple is mainly wood framing/timbering and shingles... I do hope we can all get this landmark "that aligns with the RenCen" replaced and fully restored... when we drive down the Chrysler Fwy. Detroit would indeed be a sadder place without this very dominating landmark....Quote:
Originally Posted by poobert
I noticed a huge crane next to St Josaphat on my way home yesterday...
Are you saying everyone in the AOD should kick in to save the steeple? Insurance should cover most of it. After that the parish itself should do the fundraising. There are plenty of churches in the AOD that need major capital improvements. The AOD has funds for this, plus any fundraising can be done by the parishioners. There was no AOD wide appeal to put a new roof on my parish church, St. Thomas Aquinas. We had to raise the funds ourselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by poobert
I'm saying that if worse comes to worse, we the people of the Archdiocese should kick in and save it. I wouldn't trust the Archdiocese as far as I can throw them. They'll probably come in the dead of night, take the windows and statues from the church, and ship them to a megaplex parish in Washington Township.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackie5275
I know we can't save every old church but given the age and cultural significance [[both Polish and Hastings Street) and status as essentially a minor landmark, this one is worth saving. Relatively speaking, it's pretty well attended, too.
on saturday as i was driving 75 N., i noticed there was some sort of temporary patching done on the holes at the base of the steeple...like a couple wooden sections that had been patched over, and what looked like a couple pieces of sheet metal tacked on in another spot.
maybe to keep it from disintegrating as they lift the whole structure off? or maybe theyre going to keep the lowest portion of the steeple instead of just a completely flat cap.
I drove by today...didn't look bad. But I' m no engineer.
more news soon...
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...text|FRONTPAGE
Maybe you're out of town on business, but if you've moved out, it's pretty presumptuous to expect that the people left behind are going to preserve things for your return [[or would be able to). Of course, suburbanites have displayed that presumptuousness for decades.Quote:
Originally Posted by poobert
HB
If the church doesn't want or can't manage the buildings then there are options. This would make great lofts... so would the abandoned schools for that matter. Easy conversion.
http://www.torontolife.com/informer/...enue-unit-309/
That's gross. Sorry you have little feeling for religion or its icons. I am not Catholic but We will be donating albeit a little to restore a historic building, a beacon of hope to many, part of our skyline. a tradition, our history. Shame on you for wanting to commercial a historic religious structure. SumasQuote:
Originally Posted by southofbloor
For any else that would like to help out -Quote:
Originally Posted by sumas
The parish that operates St. Josaphat Roman Catholic Church is putting out an SOS — Save Our Steeple.
Despite projected costs that church officials acknowledge would put repair of the wind-damaged structure beyond their reach, the parish is launching a fund-raising campaign to do just that. An 8-foot by 20-foot sign promoting the Save Our Steeple campaign should be in place on the side of the church facing I-75 this week.
Kevin Piotrowski, parish council president, said the outpouring of concern from people across the region who want to save the iconic 112-year-old piece of Detroit’s skyline convinced church officials to try to raise money to save the structure.
http://www.freep.com/article/2013120...teeple-Detroit
I don't mean to be a dick here, but you consistently talk about your somewhat precarious financial situation and yet you're going to donate to an organization that a) you don't belong to; and b) has access to [[or should have access to) almost unimaginable wealth it could use to handle this in a blink of an eye?Quote:
Originally Posted by sumas
I suggest the St. Josaphat/SOS folks contact Pope Francis and ask him to send over the $20,000 Bathtub and various other accouterments from Bishop Tebartz-van Elst's 41 million dollar private residence. Or maybe it reimburse the Detroit diocese for the 50 million it spent funding that ridiculous museum in Washington DC?
If there is one organization in the area LESS in need of charitable contributions it's a Catholic Church.
Update: There is a crane at the church today. They have fresh plywood on two sides toward the base of the steeple. Not sure if they are doing emergency repairs to keep it upright... would be a shame for this to come down!
St. Josaphat's iconic church steeple nearly lost in storm now stronger than ever
It's a fascinating repair job of a fascinating architecture. Video and photos at the link.
I read the article earlier...it's a really nice ending to what might have turned out differently.
The photo collection mistakenly identifies the twin steeples of Sacred Heart of Mary Church as St. Albertus. It mentions and shows a twist on the right-twin steeple, which they say indicates deterioration and the need for repair.
St. Albertus church is visible in the far right background.
Great link and story, Thanx.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimaz