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Details seem sketchy to me but the initial report is that two Detroiter's observed a robbery outside a bar/ club and when they yelled at the assailant he fired upon the bus. Killing two......
Two Killed In Pontiac Party Bus Shooting Outside Porky's
http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news...ng-20120514-rs
Common sense should tell you not to yell at someone with a gun. Why didn't they just call 911?
^^^^ I don't understand what the 19 year old was doing on the scene, on a party buss in front of a bar?
Really? Thats what bothers you about this situation?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zacha341
Drinking scene... but I guess it could be argued she was just on the bus with other members of a party from elsewhere, though she would not have been able to go into that bar?
Right, because underage kids could get never into a bar. They also abstain from sex and always say no to drugs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zacha341
Please. I'm not stupid... LOL, I've raised and worked with and taught teens. Yeah some teens get into bars and other places they should not be, do stuff they should not and in this case being at this place cost a teen their life!Quote:
Originally Posted by ResurgetCineribus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zacha341
Not at all saying anyone deserves to be shot [[this is clearly a tragedy) or that teens don't drink or screw...Quote:
ResurgetCineribushttp://www.detroityes.com/mb/images/...post-right.png
Right, because underage kids could get never into a bar. They also abstain from sex and always say no to drugs.
Still... would have been nice if the NINETEEN year old mother of a 2 yr old could have found better ways and better places to spend her time. Its hard to be in the "wrong place at the wrong time" when you're home with your toddler and not out at the club, at 2 am, at 19 yrs. old.
Well stated. A tragedy all around...Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
That's neither here nor there. I'm sure there will be plenty of nineteen year old girls in Ann Arbor this fall sneaking into bars when they could be in the library studying... Should one of them happen to be killed in the crossfire from an armed robbery, I'm sure the last thing on any person's mind will be that they should have been somewhere studying.Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
The missing attribute here is she already has a child. Does she need to be out creating another?Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed
Why is everyone blaming the victims for having a good time. Isn't the sociopath killer the problem here. Most folks would think that riding on a party bus would be safe.
No, it would have been nice if some assclown didn't shoot people and we didn't judge the vicitims by such axiliary information.Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
Still not seeing what her having a kid has to do with her being murdered?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheels
If the 19 year old mother wasn't sitting in that seat, someone else would have been. Perhaps a 49 year old teacher and mother? Would that make the news go down any smoother for some of you? The point is, this monster fired into the bus and the bullets killed two people!
Right, like nobody ever got hit by a stray round while sitting on their couch watching TV or sleeping.Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
Should these two have been somewhere other than home, so they weren't in the wrong place at the wrong time? [[Doesn't really say if it was their house though.)
http://www.freep.com/article/2012051...und-in-a-houseQuote:
Also Sunday, the bodies of a man and woman were found inside a home on Detroit's east side, Detroit police said.
A family member discovered the bodies of a woman, 61, and a man, 71, in the 3100 block of Lenox, according to a news release.
EMS workers pronounced both victims dead at the scene. They suffered injuries to their bodies, but the cause of death is pending autopsies, police said.
No arrests have been made.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ResurgetCineribus
If the robber escaped w/o anyone saying a word then they would have blamed the ominous sounding "no snitchin'" attitude. But they can't do that because they got shot for calling attention to the crime. In leiu of that they have to grasp at straws. The general facts are that you can be in a bar and under 18 if they serve food. You just cant drink or sit at the bar. That doesn't matter because she wasn't in the bar. According to the Free Press story this was a private party bus for someone she knew that may have been the only reason she was there.
What a horrible tragedy for everyone involved [[except of course the POS shooter).
Thank for summarizing this tragedy to where the rubber meets the road. We have a bold-faced, beligirent, blatent criminal trolling about robbing in the first instance, then shooting folks who found that behavior objectionable. That's the MAIN ISSUE! And the fact that a teen was involved only makes it additionally sad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Detwa
Nothing to see, move along....:rolleyes:....Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed
So let me get this straight.... a group of people rent a party bus for the night so they can go out and NOT drink & drive [[pretty responsible), happen to have a 19 year old ADULT on board [[not uncommon), observe a robbery and actually have the BALLS to call attention to it in an effort to help [[pretty gutsy), the robbers shoot at the bus and kill 2 people [[tragic), and your takeaway is "what was a 19 year old doing on the bus"????? Really??Quote:
Originally Posted by Zacha341
We have no idea whether the 19 year old was even drinking, and it is common for bars [[especially in Pontiac which caters to a college age demo) to have 18 & over admittance policies. 18 to enter, 21 to drink. Thus the big black "X" marks they put on underage people's hands that take forever to wash off.
Now take into account that Pontiac no longer has a police department so the likelihood of anything happening to the robbers was minimal at best.
Responsible people out for some good fun on Saturday night, trying to help out a person being robbed, and paying the price for their assistance.
Horrible story. I hope we never have to hear about something like this again.
Ummm... That's a bit further than I'd go -- "forecasting" what someone else would 'precisely' be doing...Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheels
I see your point, thank you.... I've never been on one of those busses and you make several good points. It would make sense for folks younger to be on board in some cases. Thanks for the clarification.
AND THE BIGGER POINT IS LAWLESSNESS AND LACK OF LAW INFORCEMENT! Criminals know that have an open slate to do as they please. Very tragic event.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Tom T
Or, maybe she is a responsible mother and this was her one time out in the last year. Perhaps it was a birthday party or bachelorette party that was planned months ago, she had a babysitter and ventured out once for a friend.Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
Hate to break it to you but parents of all ages, racecs, socio-economic backgrounds, etc occasionally have baby sitters and go out.
Is it that she is from Detroit, 19, out at a 'club' or a combination of them that are making people assume she was being a delinquent parent.
Had this been a mother from a well off family in Birmingham that was shot I suspect the sentiment would be very, very different.
Hmm, that factor does seem to emerge... especially from the comment where it was assumed she was out 'creating' another child. Yeah that was too far for me...Quote:
Originally Posted by jt1
I'm going to go out on a limb and say the number of 19 yr UM girls out at the clubs at 2 am with a toddler at home is a number pretty close to zero. I'm also going to go out an a limb and say that the chances of being involved in a armed robbery and exposed to random gunfire also approaches zero in AA. In fact, a shooting like this would likely result in public outcry. Imagine if Buffy and Timmy's Frat/Sorority bar crawl was shot up in AA1?! I mean are you serious? Think anyone is going to give a shit about ANOTHER shooting in Pontiac?Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed
Look, you don't want your shit stolen? don't leave it in plain view sitting on the front seat of your car when you park on any street in Detroit. Don't want to be near a robbery...or exposed to gunfire? don't go bar hopping in city with an enormous violent crime problem.
Maybe it's impolite to point it out, but if more people cared what 16,17,18 yr olds mothers [[and their sperm donors) were doing .... there might be fewer 17,18,19 yr old mothers out there and fewer kids lacking one or both parents due to violence and criminal mischief.
Yeah, although, hardly a common occurrence. I mean, how many times has THAT happen compared to the number of times a weekend there gunfire outside a club at 2 am in Detroit or Flint or Pontiac? Also, how many times has that happened anywhere but in Detroit?Quote:
Right, like nobody ever got hit by a stray round while sitting on their couch watching TV or sleeping.Quote:
http://www.detroityes.com/mb/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by baileyhttp://www.detroityes.com/mb/images/...post-right.pngIts hard to be in the "wrong place at the wrong time" when you're home with your toddler
Really its a small point, but....don't go to the problem and there will be no problems. It'll be some other clubber getting shot for someone's snazzy glasses and your kid won't be an orphan.
you're right. All those things COULD be true. And as I stated above, the reaction would be incredibly different. Why? because it would be unusual...shocking..."things like that don't happen here"....etc. But another kid shot outside a club in an area with a huge crime problem by some dumbass who wanted a shiny object someone else had is pretty much standard operating procedure for a disturbingly large segment of this regions populace.Quote:
Originally Posted by jt1
I mean really... how many times are we going to see this movie and pretend to be shocked?
If you don't want to be exposed to violence, don't go to where the violence usually is.
I'll follow you around the corner a bit, but let's not think there are no U of M and other co-ed 'just from home' gals out-and-about at de' club, and frat house underage getting their swerve on, drinking and what not... Buffy and Brittany! They just don't have the babies as evidence of 'oopses' and other diversions from collegiate studies.
Wasn't there just a rash or robberies and some serial rapest trolling about up there? But yes, less gun violence... and far more outcry where that to occur!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
Wow I googled porky's pontiac.. that place is pretty skanky
questionably not work safe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3U4W1bm9c3Q
http://youferral.com/jobpost/show/54...ni-bar-pontiac
Here is an incident that happened at this bar the night before!
http://www.theoaklandpress.com/artic...0952446920.txt
Make you wonder two things Why would someone wearing Cartier Glasses go there? Make a trip from across town to get there?
Why on earth would a party bus stop at this club? Did everyone have on overcoats? What kind of mixed company crowd gets together to hang out at a skanky strip bar?
Lesson to be learned: Stay away from these places they are bad news, full of people of questionable values.
Yes! Goodness, Bailey it is sad these "shiny object[S]" seem to carry alot of weight. Again it about values, VALUES - v-a-u-l-e-s. Or lack therein where materialist junk is coveted and worshiped. Ugly.
Why does it matter so much to you that she has a 2 year old? Would she be any less dead without the 2 year old?Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
From the ad:Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner
IN NEED OF A EXPERIENCED COOK THAT CAN START IMMEDIATLY. THIS IS A FEMALE BIKINI BAR SO YOU MUST FEEL COMFORTABLE WORKING AROUND THIS AND NOT GET SIDE TRACKED. CALL OR STOP BY AND ASK FOR MIKE 586-222-4697
PORKYS BIKINI BAR AND GRILL 22 E KENNETT PONTIAC MI 48340
- Location: PORKYS BIKINI BAR PONTIAC
- Compensation: TBD
- Telecommuting is ok.
- This is a contract job.
- Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
- Phone calls about this job are ok.
- Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.
How does one "telecommute" to a job as a cook? LMAO
because the initial statement I was responding to was that she was 19 and on a bar crawl underage. The poster was then shouted down by "all teenagers drink and do silly things". My comment was to point out that this was not just "any" teenager...she was a 19 yr old who had a kid at 17. Clearly, she would not be dead if she was home with her kid at 2 am and not out at a strip club, in Pontiac. Its a huge tragedy. But again, if you don't want to risk being involved in violence, don't go blowing it out in violent places. Think about getting back to that kid sleeping at home and maybe call it a night at 10? Too much to ask?Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed
And that applies across all socio economic and ethnic lines. If it was some "well off" [[term used above) 19 yr old white girl from ...where ever.... the same question will be raised. What the heck was she doing, as a 19 yr old and as a young mother, on a bar crawl at 2 am in Pontiac?
You do realize that according to the FBI there were only 9 murders in Pontiac [[granted the population is low). While that is 9 too many it doesn't go along with your belief/argument that someone should expect to be killed by being in Pontiac.Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
Your premise isn't supported by the numbers which makes me wonder why you insist on saying anything short of 'she deserved to be killed and was a terrible mother'
I hope you are willing to lecture all parents that have children that go out occasionally, because it does happen. Hell, go to Birmingham, Independence Township or Grosse Pointe and I'll bet you find a lot of mothers that go downtown for a night of partying. Should they all 'deserve' to die as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
Methinks you are making assumptions about her based upon age, location and what she was doing on this one night.
It's really disturbing that this thread is starting to echo the Trayvon Martin thread in the sentiment that this 19 year old black female caused her own death by being there. She wasn't committing a crime, it hasn't even been said whether or not she had alcohol in her system - not that it matters to her death but since some want to say she was out drinking - for all we know, she was just on the bus enjoying a laugh and some no-alcoholic drinks with her friends. What does it matter? She didn't deserve to die!
Everybody need a sad laugh [[since I'm having lunch at my desk and have a few minutes I figured I'd check some of Bailey's old posts). This was one of his posts in response to people criticizing Bob Bashara:
"Perhaps, but unlike some, I'll reserve casting aspersions upon a decent person in a time of tragedy. Perhaps that faith in Bob's basic goodness will be proven false, I don't know him that well.. but I do know some very well who are standing behind him in this and that earns him further credibility in my book. Personally, I think its particularly ghoulish to propose ridiculous theories on how he killed his wife before the body is even cold."
So heaven forbid anyone speak about Big Bob possibly killing his wife but you can pretty much piss on the body of a mother killed while doing nothing wrong because she was out at 2AM.
Is the hypocrisy socio-economic, geographic, racial?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jt1
I think he probably meant being "at a strip club" in Pontiac. In fact that is what is written. I think 9 murders is pretty high in a city of 50000 people. In fact some years it is a bit less, and others quite a bit higher; 19 in 2007 and 21 in 2008.
I also think it is screaming for shit to happen for anyone to hang out at a dive like that. They are asking for it, because that is what the culture is about, and the context fit the flying shit to a T. And a 2 year old is without a mom, again.
You may not be intentionally doing this but it sounds as if you are being dismissive of this young woman's murder because of her background story. I don't think it matters where she was, doesn't matter that she had a child at a young age, and doesn't matter that she was at a bar when she was still under the legal drinking age. The point is that she was murdered through no fault of her own. Since I'm unaware of any law that says crimes in high crime areas matter less than they do in low crime areas... A young girl murdered at a night club in Pontiac DOES INDEED hold the same weight as a young girl at a bar in Ann Arbor where those "types of things don't happen".Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
No, not at all actually. I've learned my lesson. Expect the worst in everyone and you'll never be wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by jt1
Whatever. It's just disgusting. People will twist anything into a kind of story that eases their consciences. Like when civilian casualties were reported in Iraq, people said, "Well, that's what they get for using civilians as 'human shields.'"
Anyway, the real conversation here is being laid between the lines. And you know what it is. And, of course, WE can't bring it up because then we'll never hear the end of how we brought up what we're really talking about ...
Seems like people are being murdered in pontiac at an accelerated rate this year. Goes to show. More police does not equal safer streets
I'm not trying to be dismissive. I'm intensely frustrated that another kid was killed and yet another kid is orphaned. I'm frustrated that a 19 yr old with a toddler was the victim. and I'm upset that the guy will likely never be caught. I'm also disappointed on what some consider to be "normal" around here.Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed
according to the FBI 9 murders when? Last year? Im pretty sure there have been atleast 8 so far this year. 3 doubles and 2 singles that i remember reading about in the last few months
Maybe getting rid of the PD in favor of the Sheriff wasn't such a good deal after all?
I'm feeling incredibly guilty right now. I have a 2 year old and I was out Saturday night. To make matters even worse, my wife was with me. We must be real shitbag parents to have a babysitter come over at 9 so we could get out of the house for a few hours.
Then again, 19 was 19 years ago, plus some. And we weren't in Pontiac, we went to downtown Birmingham. Since we're past the age where we want to go to the club, we just grabbed a bite to eat and caught a movie. Do I get a pass or am I irresponsible too?
I feel bad for the family and friends of the victims. The fact that people are trying to paint a negative picture of them has me a little miffed.
I read all the posts here and nothing about the story, why would a fool shoot at a bus full people.
Except Bob Bashara.Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
Sorry, I should have added the proper context. This was for 2010 which is the most recent year that the FBI has posted crime stats. Certainly a lot could change between then and now but I wanted to refute Bailey's assumption that anyone in Pontiac at 2AM deserves to get shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by rex
I think it's pretty clear that you and your wife are terrible parents but didn't deserve to die since you were in Birmingham.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevgoblue
How dare you? Don't you know that once you become a parent your life outside of that is supposed to be over. You must sit at home and watch your child non-stop and never leave the house except for work. You do not deserve a moment of rest from the extremely hard job of being a parent, in fact, hiring a babysitter should be punishable by severe beating or death.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevgoblue
/sarcasm
For the shooter/s, they just lost their "human card" and need to be hunted down and dragged into court where we will most likely find a rep sheet a mile long and several previous incarcerations where they should still be in jail. The cycle of violence and lenient criminal justice system is to blame for the shooting and tragic deaths, comments as to why these folks were on the bus are reckless and judgmental, find the perps [[predatory animals) and keep them in jail this time.
Going clubbing on Sunday night is much more dangerous than any other night of the week. Ask law enforcement.
It's the toughest night for venues to fill, so it tends to be the hip hop nights [[generally considered undesirable and not worth it other nights), which tend to draw a rougher crowd. I have also heard the crowds are rougher because folks who work a 9-to-5 don't go out Sundays so it's more jobless folks.
The number of Sunday night club shootings is way disproportionate to the other nights.
That said, I don't think it's relevant. The victims were totally innocent [[if a little foolish) and the attention should be 100% focused on the assailants.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jt1
Or anywhere, but the fact it happens a lot in Detroit and some suburbs should tell you a sketchy strip joint parking lot is a great substitute for a target range.
You may not want it to be that way, but you cant be a wishful thinker when you frequent a shithole-in-the-wall. Part of the fun is in the danger I guess...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jt1
Ok, I'll play along. For the 5th time, it's a tragedy and the victim is not to blame, nor did she deserve it... point was, wouldnt it be nice if different decisions where made?...Quote:
I'm feeling incredibly guilty right now. I have a 2 year old and I was out Saturday night. To make matters even worse, my wife was with me. We must be real shitbag parents to have a babysitter come over at 9 so we could get out of the house for a few hours.
Then again, 19 was 19 years ago, plus some. And we weren't in Pontiac, we went to downtown Birmingham. Since we're past the age where we want to go to the club, we just grabbed a bite to eat and caught a movie. Do I get a pass or am I irresponsible too?
but again... let's compare and contrast your snark shall we?
So, lets see, you had this two year old when you were 38..presumably married [[since you talked about your wife), presumably employed, presumably don't live at home with your parents , you state you left your kid at 9 and returned in "a few hours" [[going to assume three hours?), and while you were out you went to one of the safest areas of Michigan where you had dinner and saw a movie.
You didn't go bar hopping in Pontiac where at 2 am you ended at a strip club, in Pontiac, where- in addition to the shooting and armed robbery- a guy was stabbed multiple times eariler the same evening.
I'm curious, does having a two year old at home factor in your choices in life or do you live exactly as you did before you had your kid?
Also, if your kid had a kid at 17, are pub crawls in Pontiac on the list of things you're going to support or counsel against?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
No argument with you on that one Bailey.
Well, no... that is actually the opposite of what I just said.Quote:
Originally Posted by jt1
I learned, from that incident specifically, as it was up close and personal, to believe NONE of the things heard from people who supposedly know the individual, do not ever give the benefit of the doubt, and just assume guilt.
The girl wasn't in a strip club. She was in a bus waiting to be taken back downtown so she could go home. According to the latest Freep article, she was with some friends at Lucky's bar and grill and they were invited to ride on the bus. No one did anything wrong except be in the wrong place at the wrong time.Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
and that bit of symmetry brings me back to my original statement...Quote:
Originally Posted by ejames01
Quote:
.... Its hard to be in the "wrong place at the wrong time" when you're home with your toddler and not out at the club, at 2 am, at 19 yrs. old.
but, you're right, they did change the story, and even maybe more since you read it..
Quote:
Sylvester and a couple of girlfriends boarded the party bus at the nightclub Lucky's in downtown Detroit on Saturday, her father said. An acquaintance had rented the bus for a birthday party.
channel 4 had more....
Quote:
They were riding on what’s commonly called a “party bus” to bring them safely from Detroit to the Pontiac bar scene.
The other victim had a child as well...apparently. So two kids now are missing a parent because a waste of a life wanted some cartier glasses he didnt feel he needed to pay for.
So young people should never ever go out on the town to have a good time? The same thing could have happened if she was just a waitress getting off work.
Heaven forbid a blonde 7-year-old should disappear ... everybody would go stark-staring crazy!
I think the point here is that there was a whole lot of stupid things that mashed together here. None of this stuff was right. What is the answer? The answer is don't get on a party bus going to a skanky strip club and you will avoid idiots like the shooter and the dumber guy flashing his wealth in a pair of cartier glasses.
First of all,the Oakland County Sheriff Dept. patrols Pontiac.They are doing gods work.Second,a party bus that went to Porky's?What a dive.It isn't downtown,its next to the old Fisher Body Plant on Baldwin and Kennet,and a dive since it was a beer and shot place called Jack's back in the day.Third,don't blame the victims.Although 2 am in certain parts of Pontiac isn't too smart a move,we should be able to go wherever and whenever as free peoples.Hope they catch this pos.
Wow I will never come to Detroityes for sympathy if I am a victim of a crime what a sad thread by a few people.
Agreed. This thread, like several others as of late, has quickly devolved into a generational culture clash.Quote:
Originally Posted by ddaydetroit
I think its time I start getting some younger people to post on this site. Ones that would be rightly offended by the insinuation that as a young parent, riding up to the front of a bikini bar on a bus means that somehow you asked to become a corpse.
It's crap like this that has me posting less and less on dyes these days.
It's easy, just be white and/or suburban.Quote:
Originally Posted by ddaydetroit
The hearts will bleed and bleed.
Gimmie a fucking break. Nowhere did anyone say she "deserved to die". My original post was that it would have been nice "different decisions had been made".Quote:
Originally Posted by detroitsgwenivere
I would view this situation as similar to when freedom lovin real 'mericans ride their motorcycles without a helmet....and then become permanently disabled from a closed head injury that could have been avoided by wearing a helmet.
If you go to a city to party where a person has 1 in 50 chance of being a victim of a violent crime. If you think that its fun to hang out in a city that is ranked as one of the least safest places in the country, why are we suprised when tragedy happens?
The only thing "random" about what happened was the name of the victim...not that there was going to be a violent crime that night.
This is not blaming the vicitm, it should be a teaching moment. "hey, look, no one is safe in certain areas of this region.... maybe NOT going on the bar crawl in Pontiac is the better choice to make...especially when you have a kid to think about."
True. Question is, why will there be no march, no outcry, no demands for justice for these two? Where's Al and Jessie? Heck, Kwame Kenyatta just quit council because he's disgusted with the lawlessness around here. How many times will a black teenager die over something stupid and NOTHING will happen here?Quote:
Originally Posted by brizee
I'll tell you why, because for too many [[on both sides of 8 mile), this is just normal. Its background noise. they wring hands over it being such a tragedy....but tomorrow there will be one just as bad.
It's just a damn shame the youth of today, can't go out anywhere to have a good time regardless of their personal background, without the fear of violence.
But the girl lived in Detroit. It's not like she ventured from the safety of her white pickett fenced suburban community for a night of excitement in an urban hip hop enviornment.Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
Not sure what the year to date numbers for violent crime are, but Detroit's numbers are way beyond those of Pontiac. Based on all the headlines we've been seeing lately, going to Pontiac sounds like a better idea than going somewhere in the city.
What exactly is Al & Jessie going to do? Are the authorities not looking for the killer.Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
What exactly do you think is supposed to happen?
You claim your not blaming the victim but you keep pointing out that they should have known better. That is blaming the victim, period. Granted it's only some of the blame, it's tasteless notheless.Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
Besides, maybe they didn't know any better. Maybe, like normal people, they wanted to go out and have fun without checking their latest made-up crime statistics? Your plan is for everybody to please stop going to Pontiac, and if you don't, you death will be somewhat diminshed as we judge you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejames01
Same thing they always do. Muckrake and huff and puff.
I think that most "normal" people [[whatever that means) would agree that a 2 AM visit to a sketchy nightclub in a high-crime section of Pontiac is probably foolish, especially for a 19 year old mother.Quote:
Originally Posted by ResurgetCineribus
Doesn't have anything to do with the crime, but it's relevant to the overall situation. There are ways to minimize risk.
I accept that my comments may be interpreted as being insensitive. But there is entirely too much "sensitivity" around here and far to little accountability.Quote:
Originally Posted by ResurgetCineribus
Did something random cause the guy to drop his bike and did the concrete his head hit cause the death? sure, but a helmet could have stopped it. I think everyone recognizes that it's a tragedy when it happens, but do we spend time cursing the hardness of the road deck? No, we generally talk about how wearing a helmet saves lives.... and here's an example of one. http://tinyurl.com/cpkhcyv
The vilolent crime stats aren't made up and pretending they are simply exacerbates the problem. Also, as pointed out above and in regards to a statement about it being "safe" vis a vis Detroit. This wasn't "green zone" Pontiac. This was off the beaten path..so to speak.
Again, I'm not trying to be dismissive, it's looking at the issue from a realistic, risk based assessment of the threats out there so people DON'T become victims in the first place. Something a lot of people don't do who should. To me , it seems a lot of that stems from the "normality" of terribly violent crime around here.
What do we take from these needless death? a) it's a tragedy and could happen to anybody, anywhere at any time; or, b) it's a tragedy, but there are just some places you are risking your safety to go no matter what.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
Just post 'The dumb bitch deserved it' and be done with it. You are essentially advocating that there should be no sympathy and we should blame anyone that is a victim of a crime in a bad neighborhood.
So in essence the following groups of people merit none of your sympathy [[even if they were only in the wrong p[lace at the wrong time):
People that live in high crime areas
People that travel to or through high crime areas [[I hope you or a loved one don’t get shot driving through Detroit. I’d hate to have to gloat about you or your loved one being ‘stupid’)
People that happen to be in an establishment that may have criminals or violent people. Does this also apply if you are in a rural Macomb County bar with some of the scumbag biker gangs that live there. The stats don’t indicate it is violent but if you are around known criminals?
Just so we can be clear on when we can be heartless pricks and blame the victim, what is the cutoff on # of violent crimes per 100,000 residents? Should we boil it down to certain neighborhoods or make it city wide [[Is it OK to be in Indian Village but not at Mack and Chalmers?) What is the cutoff on a place that is high crime or sketchy?
If say, I saw you walking in Detroit, could I beat the crap out of you [[I certainly wouldn’t so please don’t perceive it as a threat, just making a point) and pretty much state that it is your fault for being there?
A few barometers of my understanding of your rational based upon local news reports:
Obviously the parents of these kids should not have to go through this because they lived in OC: http://www.freep.com/article/2012051...s-many-claims-
Can we say these kids deserved it because they were clearly spending time with a crazy person, which we should know not do: http://www.freep.com/article/2012051...elf-say-police
Do these people deserve it because they live in Detroit [[and should the kids expect to deal with this because they and their parents live in Detroit): http://www.freep.com/article/2012051...orning-robbery
Should the victims of this lunatic just suck it up since they should have been smarter than to be in Flint: http://www.freep.com/article/2012051...rs-second-week
I’d really appreciate your rules on who brings it upon themselves and who is a victim.
Yep, it is a long rant but your lack of empathy and your lack of understanding why you are rubbing people the wrong was it exceptionally frustrating.
^^^^ Ummm, YOU need to go back and 'carefully' re-read all of my posts including the ones where I speak out about the judgement made relative to what the teen was doing that night [[as one poster assumed) etc. and the my summary on this specific case to one poster....
"Thank for summarizing this tragedy to where the rubber meets the road. We have a bold-faced, belligerent, blatant criminal trolling about robbing in the first instance, then shooting folks who found that behavior objectionable. That's the MAIN ISSUE! And the fact that a teen was involved only makes it additionally sad."
since this happened in Pontiac/Oakland county, I wonder will this be resolved any faster than the detroit shootings? we'll see..
The alleged killers have been caught.
I just don't comprehend it. That's 4 families[[victims and murderers) destroyed.
Forever.
For nothing.
for a pair of sunglasses, anyway.
Both guys will most likely spend the rest of their lives in jail.
And the victims families pay the real penalty, you can never really get over a lose like that.
Uh.. is Anthony Ellis one of the perpetrators or is he among the deceased? Freep, you're slipping..
Lerrick Myers, 20, and Anthony Ellis, 28, stood mute before Oakland County Circuit Court Judge Nanci Grant, who entered not guilty pleas for them
The pair are accused of robbing a man outside a Pontiac bar on May 13, and then opening fire on the bus when those inside tried to warn others of the robbery. Anthony Ellis, 28, and Shuntrice Sylvester, 19, died in the hail of bullets.
Murder suicide?
http://www.freep.com/article/2013051...s-murder-trial
Glad they caught up with these two. They deserve severe punishment.
Assholes. 21 and 23, unbelieveable.Quote:
Originally Posted by TKshreve
Has anyone noticed the local news stating things like this more often: "Prosecutors say Lerrick Myers, 21, of Pontiac and Craig Lewis, 23, formerly of Pontiac but now a resident of Taylor,"
It almost seems like they still have to remind people that the criminals, even though he lived in taylor really as from Pontica. Funny thing is I've only seen previous locations listed for ex Detroiters and ex Pontiacers. I'm curious why were someone used to live is relevant unless they are playing into an agenda.
It's the opposite of white woman syndrome.Quote:
Originally Posted by jt1
Well the shooting took place in Pontiac, so maybe that would be the basis for the extra info.Quote:
Originally Posted by jt1
Or the media know how divided this city is and loves to fuel the fire in criminal cases such as this.
Personally, I like to know where murderers are from and where they came from.
There was recently a crime, I think, in Clinton Township. The article stated that someone was arrested and listed him as from Clinton Township, but previously from Detroit.Quote:
Originally Posted by TKshreve
Nothing in the article implied any remote connection to the city, just bs jouralism continuing the divide
Same with veterans. A guy might have briefly been in service [[possibly boarded out in the first four months) twenty years ago, but if he commits a crime it is "ex-Marine arrested for armed robbery".Quote:
Originally Posted by jt1
"Man bites dog", "Don't sell the steak, sell the sizzle".Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermod
Curious what a New York City "stop and frisk" campaign would result in in Detroit? The jury is out for me on stop and frisk, but my guess is a lot of people would be removed from the streets of Detroit with such a campaign.
I lived in New Center off of 2nd during the infamous STRESS cop unit days. It seemed like a good plan with bad management.