Refugees, asylum-seekers overwhelm Michigan shelters

Long article, but good read...

https://www.detroitnews.com/gcdn/aut...pjpg&auto=webp

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State officials anticipate a 40% increase in refugees coming to Michigan next year — as many as 1,100 more people than this year — and that number doesn't include those who will come to Michigan non-traditionally after seeking asylum at a United States port or border. State officials can't track those seeking asylum because they don't have a structured system to do so.
Wayne State University Professor Hayg Oshagan has seen the increased number of those needing help firsthand in the Detroit area. A member of the city's Immigration Task Force, Oshagan was preparing to speak to 30 asylum-seekers in Detroit earlier this month and instead was shocked to see more than 400 gathered in Khadim Rassul Foundation Hall, begging for assistance. "We knew this was an issue, but not to this depth," Oshagan said. "Where do they go? Where do they sleep? They have no way of seeking or receiving help. Freedom House [[a program that supports refugees) has quadrupled its capacity. All around, it’s difficult, and I’m not sure what’s going to happen and what the solution is."

The Black Migrant Townhall, where Oshagan spoke, was hosted by the African Bureau for Immigration and Social Affairs. The turnout didn't surprise its executive director Seydi Starr. She said for the last year, there has been an outcry for support services for those seeking asylum, everything from housing and food to legal services and work permits. But now people may notice they've overflowed to the streets. "We've been calling on administrators. ... We have seen the lack of supportive services for that specific community primarily working with Black immigrants," Starr said. "... We have been working to secure the understanding that these people are here, and something needs to be done about it." Oshagan said many asylum seekers spoke about their hardships — winter is approaching and they lack shelter, work permits, licenses or any mode of transportation. Many also worry that immigration and medical services are costly, especially when families are fleeing their countries with next to nothing.

A refugee is a person who has fled their own country because they are at risk of serious human rights violations and persecution there. An asylum seeker is the same, but someone who hasn’t yet been legally recognized as a refugee and is waiting to receive a decision on their asylum claim. They are released near the border they entered after background checks and rely on community agencies for food and shelter. The state has no way to track the migration of those seeking asylum, and programs that support refugees and asylum-seekers get limited, if any, federal support.

"We do not have beds for all that need them," said Elizabeth Orozco-Vasquez, executive director of Freedom House Detroit, which works with more than 100 asylum seekers, providing temporary housing, medical and English classes. More than double show up at Freedom House's doorstep a month and have to be transferred elsewhere, she said.

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https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...s/71910544007/

"The U.S. Refugee Admissions Program is managed by the Department of State, Department of Homeland Security, and the Department of Health and Human Services. Those admitted as refugees are eligible for U.S. government-funded resettlement assistance."
https://www.state.gov/refugee-admissions

Enough! What about those on line for years to immigrate or those here that went thru the process, costs and waiting? Most know this walk-in breaching of our borders is not sustainable [or even fully charitable] and will impact cities negatively but bias and partisan politics allow it to continue.

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Originally Posted by Zacha341

Enough! What about those on line for years to immigrate or those here that went thru the process, costs and waiting? Most know this walk-in breaching of our borders is not sustainable [or even fully charitable] and will impact cities negatively but bias and partisan politics allow it to continue.

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I don't understand why Trump didn't cash that check from Mexico for the wall.

"... We have been working to secure the understanding that these people are here, and something needs to be done about it."

Simple solution, a one way ticket back to where they came from.

I was at the Fox Theater a few weeks back, there was a no bags policy in effect. One woman who didn't feel like taking her purse back to her car argued with security until she claimed there was in inhaler in the bag she needed. Security told her "oh, well it's OK if it's a medical bag". Guess how many more "medical bags" were then let through security as one person after the other in line found out that all they needed to do was claim their bag had some medical use?

Once you start granting exceptions to the rules, everyone will start claiming that exception for one thing or another. That's what the asylum rules have become. These people are trained in what to say by the smugglers they pay to bring them to our boarders, and we have no way to verify anything they claim.

^^^ Yep! And yet we've been told/ sold that the ONLY push back against and stance to end this was the alt-right GOP racists fox-snews types!

Untrue.

Blacks and others are also SAYING NO! NOW! Charity begins at home! Resources are NOT infinite.

We have our own homelessness, poverty, drug crisis and yet have we our borders now inarguably open [breached] to any one seeking entry. While others wait on ever long lines? And let's not even mention the security risks, illegal drugs and sex trafficking.

This increasing breach of our borders is being called an 'exodus from poverty'. We will foot the bill on many levels. Bet.

Having friends and fam in the south I knew this was heading our way. Having friends and family who are legally vetted immigrants I also know that they TOO do not support this border breach [all POC not a republican among them]. A breaching that shows little slowing! More increasing each week. Where's the end here? When?

My immigrant family members now doubt their relatives will have a chance to legally immigrate to America as they did. They're right to be concerned.

Our cities are being flooded. This is happening in real time. What other country is doing/ does/ allow this?

Why? What IS the desired outcome? Total collapse?

Many struggling black people WILL be negatively impacted here in Detroit if we allow what is going in Chicago and NY.

Prove to me [anyone] that is will not be so.

Perhaps VP Harrison can repeat her compelling statement: 'Don't Come'.

Much of this crisis can be followed on Detroit Youtuber Anton Daniels channel:

https://youtu.be/tj8K4FRC8lY?si=c_UleNhVnSGKKRdC

I say let them all in, and build plenty of housing to accommodate. I'm not sure how anyone on this forum can say Detroit doesn't need growth with a straight face.

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Originally Posted by gratiotfaced

I say let them all in,....

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I guess someone had to buzz kill the Two Minutes Hate. ;)

As many of you know, I live in Las Vegas, Nevada. Not really close to the border, but for what it's worth the refugee problem here is really minimal! I'm surprised that someone crossing the border ends up so far away as compared to Las Vegas, probably only 300 miles from Mexico. But I suppose that's human nature. I've never heard of any problematic refugee here.

Well Detroit is not getting over 10,000 Pan Hispanic immigrants. Biden chose Californian Cities, Chicago and New York City to be the next asylum seeking cities. Our city don't have simple open jobs, and not enough shelters for them.

Forget about that.

Those cities were picked because they used immigration as a political tool against the border states without understanding the consequences of having to deal an overwhelming amount.

One can say they got a wake up call.

Michigan is different they make it clear that they are not a sanctuary state or have sanctuary cities,outside of Ann Arbor who is zero sanctuary,but on the other hand they have the same policies in place that make them a sanctuary city and state.

That’s the difference,they are one but they do not stand up on the stage and create the drama that surrounds being vocal about it like the other cities do.

If you want to bring more immigrants in,just call Texas,they can probably load you up with 50-100,000 tomorrow.

But there are different categories,you have asylum seekers,which the federal government will kick in funds and help with assimilation and job training,housing etc.,run through Catholic Charities.

Then you have the ones that are fleeing poverty to the U.S. because everybody is rich here,they were born and raised in poverty,levels like,if you need water for washing,grab you a bucket and go down to the river and get you some.

Those are the ones that have no skills and end up just being general labor.


So I guess if one was looking to increase the local population going that route you would contact Catholic Charities.

Most of the ones that I know anyways that are seeking asylum,majority from Venezuela,are collage educated and were considered middle class income level in the country they left.

So if you target specifically,it would probably work well for Detroit without being a burden on the existing taxpayers.

I mean we were all thinking the same thing while reading the Diary of Ann Frank in school.

"Ugh, thank god the Nazis took care of her. Better dead in a concentration camp than living in Boston with relatives like they were trying to do. Charity begins at home! Praise Jesus!"

My question has always been, "Why does Mexico allow so many to come through it's country?"

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Originally Posted by royce

My question has always been, "Why does Mexico allow so many to come through it's country?"

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At least Uncle Joe isn't sending any mean tweets.

https://homeland.house.gov/2023/12/2...wered-cartels/

Hola! Como estas ya'll

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Originally Posted by K-slice

"... We have been working to secure the understanding that these people are here, and something needs to be done about it."

Simple solution, a one way ticket back to where they came from.

I was at the Fox Theater a few weeks back, there was a no bags policy in effect. One woman who didn't feel like taking her purse back to her car argued with security until she claimed there was in inhaler in the bag she needed. Security told her "oh, well it's OK if it's a medical bag". Guess how many more "medical bags" were then let through security as one person after the other in line found out that all they needed to do was claim their bag had some medical use?

Once you start granting exceptions to the rules, everyone will start claiming that exception for one thing or another. That's what the asylum rules have become. These people are trained in what to say by the smugglers they pay to bring them to our boarders, and we have no way to verify anything they claim.

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I agree with everything except for your 2nd paragraph. A better solution is to not let undocumented persons in to begin with. The border is wide open NOW, the border pretty much was not before Biden took office.

I think it is going to be impossible to deport all or the majority of illegal persons who have entered the county over the last 3 years.

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Originally Posted by softailrider

I agree with everything except for your 2nd paragraph. A better solution is to not let undocumented persons in to begin with. The border is wide open NOW, the border pretty much was not before Biden took office.

I think it is going to be impossible to deport all or the majority of illegal persons who have entered the county over the last 3 years.

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I'm not understanding how the border is wide open NOW under Biden. What's the difference now than when Trump was in office? Isn't it just an issue of more migrants trying to get into the country than before? I'm curious to hear your explanation?

"All the problems we face in the United States today can be traced to an unenlightened immigration policy on the part of the American Indian."

— Pat Paulsen

^Yes. And none of this will fix, erase or ameliorate that injustice.

So much for the justification of our borders breached as they are today.

We'll endure the consequences TOGETHER.

I don't see most politicians and our American families these days are not learning from the 'Ellis Island' immigrant asylum seeking phase. A long time ago from 1840s to the 1940s Americans had seen the influx in immigrants from Europe and Eastern Europe [[ Some of them are illegal, the U.S. immigration police will let them in anyway.) : Only the first wave of unwilling immigrants came to America as slaves were African Americans starting in 1619. Being poached by other African tribal rivals, took the white man, loaded to their slave ships and ship to anywhere in America. As part of trade triangle of tobacco, rum and slaves.

1. The Irish arrived U.S. since the late 1820's due to the potato famine.

2. The Italians arrived in the U.S. since the 1870s to due to changing of religious states, farming famines and the rise of the mafiosos.

3. The Chinese arrived in the U.S. in the 1860's just to work on the railroads and only Chinamen can come. Chinese females came after 1900.

4. More ethnic Germans arriving to the U.S. after WWI due to not being their side of the Kaiser or the failure of the puppet Weirmar Government.

5 Russian arriving the U.S. since 1850s. Some had already occupied in once time Russia Alaska looking as fur trappers. Later after 1880s to the 1920s to escape from the Czar's control to the Soviet Communist control.

6. Japanese arrived to America since the 1920s due to escape the modern shogun-esque culture of the Emperor.

8. Some Arabs like the Yemeni came to U.S. since 1910 just to work in Henry Ford's Rouge Plants due to the closure the competitive silk industry no thanks to the British, French and Dutch control.

7. After WWII more Poles, Slaves, Germans, Greeks, Italians, Hungarians, Romanians came to America hoping for a better future.

8. More East Indians are coming to America since the 1980s to become doctors and learn computer engineering and escape the slums of the cities.

10. More Ethnic Arabs like Iraqis, Lebanese, Syrians and even Palestinians come to the U.S since the 1980s to escape their religious wars.

Now we have the influx of Latinos starting with Pan Caribbean Latinos and Haitians since the 1960s to escape political conflicts to an influx of Mexicans since the 1980s to escape cartels, political upheavals and rebels. In the 21st Century The U.S. is now experiencing an exodus of Pan Hispanic dreamers as for as central and South American nations to escape simple political and cartel and gang problems. And they will fight and crawl through mountains cartels, weather just to pass the border and get a slice of the American Apple Pie. What to do with flux of dreamers. "Oh lock them up, arrest them all, seek asylum, put them into to sanctuary cities." That is the new Ellis Island ideal from liberals. But Trump as a 'final solution' for them. Arrest them all deport them back to the war and gang infested nation and warn them of they ever return to the U.S. illegally, they will be arrested again, and in jail for a few years and deport them back all over again. And Trump will take extreme measures to keep dreamers out from our borders from building giant wall and have armed volunteer guards with shotguns!

Look Americans we will to deal with the world of immigrants just like Romans dealt with Germanic and Celtic Tribes. And its not going to end until their nations become their own free and democratic nation.

Ellis island was a border,you came in by ship and then you went through the process before entering the country after being somewhat vetted,and back then if you committed a crime as an immigrant,you were also deported,even if you robbed the corner grocery store,after jail you got deported.

The 1800s we were building a nation so the masses were more welcome.

A border wall is not designed to prevent people from entering,it’s about controlling the flow so the system does not get overwhelmed.

One could argue that there are now cities in the U.S. that are being overwhelmed by an uncontrolled flow.

It’s also about security because for every person seeking a better life there are others using the border to smuggle or other nefarious reasons.

When it comes to illegal immigration there is no country in the world that will allow a U.S. citizen or a citizen from any other country to enter and stay,so what we are doing is no different then the rest of the world.

If you are caught in those countries as an illegal you will also be arrested and deported,no different then here,actually here you have a better chance of not being deported.because there is a legal system in place unlike in a lot of other places where it is more cut and dry.

During the depression all of the Mexicans living in California were rounded up and deported because they were stealing the jobs citizens could have,when the depression ended,they were allowed back in.

People dramatizing an immigration system that has been going on for over 100 years like it is just something that appeared overnight.

So really the question I have is,with all of the time people and politicians spend yelling from their soap box in support of illegal immigration amd the unfettered flow of.

How come through the decades,the same time and energy was not spent on creating a more feasible path for them to immigrate in the first place?

There is a system in place,no different than any other country in the world and it takes years when following it properly.

We are fortunate enough to live in a 1st world country in a world that is neck deep in poverty and violence,we are talking about hundreds of millions that would jump at the chance for a better life in this country,even to experience what it is like to have running water and electricity.

The immigrants that came through Ellis island,had no money,no skills,no job and no way to get food,they lived in tar paper shacks amongst the rats with no running water or electricity and no government funding.

It was Mrs Roosevelt that after driving through an immigrate slum that noticed the deplorable conditions and started the support programs.

But it was time limited and not designed as a life long commitment.

Detroit as a city is struggling to help 100 immigrants,now do the right thing and open up your hearts and bring in another 30,000.

You cannot afford it and because you cannot you have to control the flow,do not like border control ?

Open up the Canadian border to the unregulated flow and see what happens.

Canada is surrounded by water and has immigration policies in place,so it not like 10,000 can join a caravan and walk across the ocean,then through Canada in order to get to the United States.

You do not need a northern border wall,because Canada is the wall ,illegals still get through Canada and our northern border but smaller numbers because there are bigger hurdles.

When we discuss,immigration,illegal immigration,borders,DACA etc people have a tendency to lump it all together when it is a multi faceted ordeal where each facet has a totally separate set of rules that are extremely complex.

But it starts at two places,at the border or at the embassy of a given county,it’s done that way in order to allow immigration while controlling the flow so individual cities can absorb the influx.

Its easy to demand compassion from others when you do not have to suffer the ramifications and negative impact that comes with that compassion.

Cities like in California that demand that compassion the loudest also have 60,000 homeless in their streets,because at the end of the day compassion cost money.

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Originally Posted by softailrider

I agree with everything except for your 2nd paragraph. A better solution is to not let undocumented persons in to begin with. The border is wide open NOW, the border pretty much was not before Biden took office.

I think it is going to be impossible to deport all or the majority of illegal persons who have entered the county over the last 3 years.

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They're not undocumented illegal immigrants, they're legal asylum seekers. They're waiting for court dates to determine their status, and if they're declined then they get sent back.

This isn't a situation like Mexicans immigrating illegally 20 years ago, where they have their own functional country that they can build a life in, but chose to come here to make more money.

The countries these people are coming from have been taken over by gangs who rape rob and beat as they please. If you get on the gang's bad side you and your family's life is over. They forcibly recruit kids into the gangs and if they resist them and their family's life is over. The governments deploy the military to retake territory from the gangs but it doesn't work. These places have levels of violence on par with Syria and Afghanistan. On top of that, aside from the normal extreme poverty these countries normally face, there have been natural disasters to make things worse.

According to international law, US law, and basic human decency, these people are refugees and are allowed to stay in the US.

Appearances mean a lot and they can be deceiving, that being said,

I was Walmart today.

The Cadillac store is a place to go to meet our new arrivals on a regular basis for some reason. I hear Cheboygan is too.

Anyway there were 3 young adults and four kids pushing 2 grocery carts absolutely piled high and overflowing working on a third. None spoke english and all smiling and chattering..

Good, bad or indifferent it did leave an impression.

I guess it depends on which side of the fence you find yourself.

As far as refugees and asylum seekers according to U.S. law it is pretty clear.

Being afraid to return to your home country is not enough by itself. To establish eligibility for asylum or refugee status under U.S. law [[8 U.S.C. § 1158), you must prove that you meet the definition of a refugee [[under 8 U.S.C. §1101).

Under U.S. law, a “refugee” is a person who is unable or unwilling to return to his or her home country because of “persecution or a well-founded fear of persecution” due to race, membership in a particular social group, political opinion, religion, or national origin.viii This definition is based on the United Nations 1951 Convention and 1967 Protocols relating to the Status of Refugees,ix to which the United States became a party in 1968.x


The problem is people confuse the categories,by law somebody fleeing a country due to unrest,social economic reasons and violence,are not by law classified as asylum or refugees.

So somebody living in Detroit and in poverty and in a bad neighborhood can apply as a refugee or asylum in Canada ?

People classify everybody as refugees in order to pull at heart strings,even though they legally are not.

There is a difference also depending on where they come from,Mexico still has safe éreas,people can escape the violence from within,places like Venezuela and the ones that I know that have received asylum were civil rights lawyers,news paper owners and reporters,opposition party politicians etc.

Easy enough to prove when you can provide documentation like your car blown up,apartment blown up,gun shot wounds received from escaping state security forces etc.

People want to flee to this country escaping the violence,but our security was not handed to us,Americans died so we could have it and more will die in the future in order to protect it.

Last year 800,000 Mexicans left Mexico for the U.S. , 1.7 million border encounters on the southern border alone,if they will not fight for their own country and freedoms,why would they fight for ours if it came down to it?

Every right we have in this country from independence to even the right to vote was fought for with blood.

The African Americans in this country did not flee to Canada,they stood their ground and fought for every thing they have.

We spend up to $75 billion a year in foreign policy,that’s billions going to those countries to help change from with-in so there are no mass migrations.

In 2022 1.7 million at the southern border alone tried refugee/asylum status,that does not include the 100s of thousands from the Middle East and African nations.

So even if you break it down as 2.1 million in 2022 alone sought asylum in the U.S of 25,000 were found to have a valid claim as a refugee/asylum seeker.

The law is here

https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/fi...ees_fy2022.pdf

International law ?

Bosnia genocided over 100,000 Muslims during their ethnic cleansing in the 90s,Thats literally lining people up against the wall and shooting them and now today they are talking about it is time for another cleansing.

The international community is dealing with the same things on their soil,they could care less how the United States handles their immigration policies.

When you consider how China,Burma,Bosnia and A lot of South African nations handle their immigration problems,by just killing them all,all and all considered,I kinda think we are pretty high up on the scale when it comes to compassion.

Anybody with some extra compassion in the U.S. can sponsor a refugee/asylum seeker in their home and support them through the process but considering there are at least 150 million Americans that can do that but only 3000 at best do,it’s easy to claim compassion when you do not actually have to put any effort into actually applying it.

This thread started with 100 refugees in Detroit,a city with 600,000 +- residents,apparently they are in that position because nobody has offered to take them into their home and support them,where is the compassion ?

It actually has little to do with compassion and there is a big difference between refugees/asylum seekers according to law verses those fleeing economic hardship.

648 million people in the world live under extreme poverty,you cannot bring them all here and feed them with compassion.

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Originally Posted by softailrider

I agree with everything except for your 2nd paragraph. A better solution is to not let undocumented persons in to begin with. The border is wide open NOW, the border pretty much was not before Biden took office.

I think it is going to be impossible to deport all or the majority of illegal persons who have entered the county over the last 3 years.

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He has ramped up,from 33,000 to 85,000 he also made a deal with Venezuela who would not allow repatriation before to eccept 450,000 Venezuelans.

But he also changed it,so if you are from those countries and have a friend in the U.S. you can stay or come here,also set the limit on 30,000 per month can come here from the worst South American countries if they can find an American sponsor.

I am thinking a nice 25 yo Cuban Chica,she can cook,clean and do laundry in exchange for room and board,it’s cheaper than getting married.

Think about who is going to take advantage of that program and who it targets,good cheap domestic help is hard to find,easier to import them.

Before it used to be if you were getting married,you were the “sponsor” because you had to have enough income in order to support your bride through the process so she would not be dependent on public support.

Now you can sponsor anybody,do not even have to get married,it kinda makes Downton Abby a realistic proposal in 2023,you can now have that large house with the cheap staff.

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Originally Posted by Zacha341

^^^ Yep! And yet we've been told/ sold that the ONLY push back against and stance to end this was the alt-right GOP racists fox-snews types!

Untrue.

Blacks and others are also SAYING NO! NOW! Charity begins at home! Resources are NOT infinite.

We have our own homelessness, poverty, drug crisis and yet have we our borders now inarguably open [breached] to any one seeking to entry. While others wait on ever long lines? And let's not even mention the security risks, illegal drugs and sex trafficking.

This increasing breach of our borders is being called an 'exodus from poverty'. We will foot the bill on many levels. Bet.

Having friends and fam in the south I knew this was heading our way. Having friends and family who are legally vetted immigrants I also know that they TOO do not support this border breach [all POC not a republican among them]. A breaching that shows little slowing! More increasing each week. Where's the end here? When?

My immigrant family members now doubt their relatives will have a chance to legally immigrate to America as they did. They're right to be concerned.

Our cities are being flooded. This is happening in real time. What other country is doing/ does/ allow this?

Why? What IS the desired outcome? Total collapse?

Many struggling black people WILL be negatively impacted here in Detroit if we allow what is going in Chicago and NY.

Prove to me [anyone] that is will not be so.

Perhaps VP Harrison can repeat her compelling statement: 'Don't Come'.

Much of this crisis can be followed on Detroit Youtuber Anton Daniels channel:

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Indeed it will happen here in Detroit if our city will be a sanctuary place.

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Originally Posted by Jason

They're not undocumented illegal immigrants, they're legal asylum seekers. They're waiting for court dates to determine their status, and if they're declined then they get sent back.

This isn't a situation like Mexicans immigrating illegally 20 years ago, where they have their own functional country that they can build a life in, but chose to come here to make more money.

The countries these people are coming from have been taken over by gangs who rape rob and beat as they please. If you get on the gang's bad side you and your family's life is over. They forcibly recruit kids into the gangs and if they resist them and their family's life is over. The governments deploy the military to retake territory from the gangs but it doesn't work. These places have levels of violence on par with Syria and Afghanistan. On top of that, aside from the normal extreme poverty these countries normally face, there have been natural disasters to make things worse.

According to international law, US law, and basic human decency, these people are refugees and are allowed to stay in the US.

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Call them undocumented persons, call them illegal aliens, migrants or whatever you want. I'm aware most come from unfortunate situations, but there has to be some limits to their arrival here.

I'm not against immigration. My grandparents on both sides were immigrants. they came here in what was a legal manner back then.

Obviously, we cannot afford to house, feed, provide medical care to 9 million people who have come through our borders. If certain individuals want to sponsor persons or families, and bear the financial and other responsibility for that, I think that's very laudable. But the situation is just not tenable, we cannot be the saviors for the world.

Poverty Exodus

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...us/ar-AA1lZoRX

Not incredibly so [or surprising] that factor does seem to emerge. Doesn't it?

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Originally Posted by Richard

...Cities like in California that demand that compassion the loudest also have 60,000 homeless in their streets, because at the end of the day compassion cost money.

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Exactly. Somehow this single aspect alone has become obscured!

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Originally Posted by softailrider

Obviously, we cannot afford to house, feed, provide medical care to 9 million people who have come through our borders. If certain individuals want to sponsor persons or families, and bear the financial and other responsibility for that, I think that's very laudable. But the situation is just not tenable, we cannot be the saviors for the world.

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Indeed. Allowed to enter the US, at this level, at this divided and fiscally challenged time. Why?

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Originally Posted by Dan Wesson

Poverty Exodus

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Attachment 42956

Quote:

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Originally Posted by softailrider

Call them undocumented persons, call them illegal aliens, migrants or whatever you want. I'm aware most come from unfortunate situations, but there has to be some limits to their arrival here.

I'm not against immigration. My grandparents on both sides were immigrants. they came here in what was a legal manner back then.

Obviously, we cannot afford to house, feed, provide medical care to 9 million people who have come through our borders. If certain individuals want to sponsor persons or families, and bear the financial and other responsibility for that, I think that's very laudable. But the situation is just not tenable, we cannot be the saviors for the world.

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They're not undocumented, or illegal. They are coming here in a legal manner, following the proper rules and proceedures. You're conflating illegal immigrants with refugees.

From a Congressional Research Service report:

"In FY2023, U.S. Border Patrol encountered more than
447,000 foreign nationals from the Northern Triangle
crossing the U.S. Southwest border between ports of entry,
including 213,000 Guatemalans; 181,000 Hondurans; and
53,000 Salvadorans [[see Figure 2). Of those encountered,
the Border Patrol placed 309,000 into removal proceedings
under Title 8 of the U.S. Code, where they could potentially
seek asylum or related relief, and expelled 138,000 from the
United States under Title 42 for public health reasons."

We're talking about a 0.15% increase of the US's population. The problem is not that the US cannot perform it's legal and moral duties, it's that if you put all of these people into a handful of big cities, they can't handle it. They need to be spread around. The idea that metro Detroit is "overwhelmed" by a few hundred refugees is laughable.

I know of bridge for sale if most Americans believe "They're not undocumented, or illegal." when they cross the Rio Grande. Only by changing the meaning of words do they become legal. Biden, Democrats and too many Republicans have wanted cheaper foreign labor and/or enough votes to make the Democratic Party the only Party.

According to the U.S. Customs and Border Patrol, 3,201,144 have entered the U.S. through the end of September without documentation this year. Without taking into account that these are just the undocumented that were 'encountered' by the Border Patrol or that the flow has been increasing, just extrapolating 12 months [[3,201,144x4/3) equals 4,266,937 new mouths to feed, house and provide medical service for just for 2023. The estimates I've seen for the whole of the Biden administration have been over 6M and up to 10M so far. This on top of the 20M+ undocumented folks previously in the country.

Going with the lower 6M figure, that is greater than the population of say Minnesota. That means, nationwide, that enough infrastructure, has to be be built to equal every bit of pavement, schools, housing, commerce, medical schools etc.. in Minnesota. No one can consider themselves green who supports this. Taxes will have to be raised, more debt dumped on our children, or benefits cut to Americans to finance this. The federal government should at least be spending enough to provide medical care for an extra 6M new residents or the waits for care will only be longer. Michigans share of the invasion, if equally appropriated, will be 125,182 new usually poorly educated unskilled residents. Ann Arbor has 122,000 resident for comparison. How much would it cost to build a new Ann Arbor? We simply cannot afford to accept everyone in the world who arrives claiming they need refugee or asylum status because of bad weather or coming from countries with worse governments than our own.

Unlock all your own doors and vote for Democrats if you want to show support for open border policies.

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Originally Posted by Zacha341

Indeed. Allowed to enter the US, at this level, at this divided and fiscally challenged time. Why?



Attachment 42956

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And to think it is done by the stroke of a pen using Executive Order.

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Originally Posted by softailrider

...Obviously, we cannot afford to house, feed, provide medical care to 9 million people who have come through our borders. If certain individuals want to sponsor persons or families, and bear the financial and other responsibility for that, I think that's very laudable. But the situation is just not tenable, we cannot be the saviors for the world.

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Just to stir it up a bit ;) Could we afford it more easily if the bulk of the 9 million were legally paying taxes? Paying for services and pumping up the social security system?

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Originally Posted by Vic01

Just to stir it up a bit ;) Could we afford it more easily if the bulk of the 9 million were legally paying taxes? Paying for services and pumping up the social security system?

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Citing union roofers and union meat packers as examples of American workers replaced by cheaper non union legal and illegal immmigrants: The taxes would be, I'm guessing, half to three quarters as much. Then we have to look at whatever happened to the displaced American workers. Did they retire early, accept a lower paying job, or even die from Fentanyl that came across the open border.

100,000 Americans died from fentanyl last year. It is mostly disgruntled whites but fentanyl use is said to be on the increase in the black community. What does it cost government to deal with that?

And how does having an extra ~26M illegal aliens [[only 6M are Joe's) who mostly have found housing affect the availability and affordability of housing of Americans?

Taxpayers pay about $12,700/year for the average K-12 student and probably more for second language students. So $12,700 x 13 years for K-12 = $165,110 for the cost of education for each child. Maybe by cutting educational programs for other kids and raising taxes, Detroit could afford this but it won't be all from taxing wages.

What if our enemies saw a chance to slip in some 9/11 type operatives as 'asylum seekers' or WMDs? Naw, let's be arrogant and pretend they are too stupid to see that opportunity. Only two of the 9/11 crew members were illegal after all. What did that mess cost the U.S. in security inconveniences and costs and lives lost in imaginary reprisal wars? "More than 24,000 Chinese citizens have been apprehended crossing into the United States from Mexico in the past year. That is more than in the preceding 10 years combined." -11/24/23 NY Times Whatever...

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Originally Posted by Vic01

Just to stir it up a bit ;) Could we afford it more easily if the bulk of the 9 million were legally paying taxes? Paying for services and pumping up the social security system?

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No,because if they were legally paying taxes that would meen they have legal standing and citizen rights,or large protests demanding things - Because I pay taxes I have the right.

You cannot go to any country in the world and work without being a citizen,well you could in Europe and that’s why England did the Brexit thing,because people were moving there from poorer countries,getting a job,then receiving public benefits,then moving back to their country while collecting UK benefits.

The argument of illegals work for cheap wages is why others support their influx no longer applies,because they demand the same prevailing wage as everybody else.

As a rule they work low pay jobs because of lack of skills and language barriers,no different than U.S. citizens that work low pay jobs,the lack of skills part.

[QUOTE=oladub;639328]...Did they retire early, accept a lower paying job, or even die from Fentanyl that came across the open border.

That boat sailed about fifty years ago. Did you miss the memo about neo-liberalism?

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Originally Posted by royce

I'm not understanding how the border is wide open NOW under Biden. What's the difference now than when Trump was in office? Isn't it just an issue of more migrants trying to get into the country than before? I'm curious to hear your explanation?

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Are you obtuse or what? Do some reading, not just CNN headline browsing, and it will clear things up for you. Start with Mayorkas. Biden is fucking clown that is out to crush the working low income class in this country.

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Originally Posted by Dbest

Are you obtuse or what? Do some reading, not just CNN headline browsing, and it will clear things up for you. Start with Mayorkas. Biden is fucking clown that is out to crush the working low income class in this country.

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Great explanation, very scholarly...

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Originally Posted by Dbest

Biden is fucking clown that is out to crush the working low income class in this country.

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Best economy since 1960s. But ideologues hate it.

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Originally Posted by Henry Whalley

Best economy since 1960s. But ideologues hate it.

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That’s right, best economy ever built upon quick sand.
That is what trillions of dollars of borrowed money can get you if you are economically naive.
If you never intend to pay it back then it’s party time.

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Originally Posted by Dan Wesson

That’s right, best economy ever built upon quick sand.
That is what trillions of dollars of borrowed money can get you if you are economically naive.
If you never intend to pay it back then it’s party time.

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Yes, But ideologues love it.

https://www.detroityes.com/mb/images...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by royce https://www.detroityes.com/mb/images...post-right.png
I'm not understanding how the border is wide open NOW under Biden. What's the difference now than when Trump was in office? Isn't it just an issue of more migrants trying to get into the country than before? I'm curious to hear your explanation?

It’s more complicated then that,we stopped being the world police and doing regime changes.

What you are seeing is a result of that as socialism and dictatorships rise to power and made everybody equally poor.

Social media plays a role and technology in order to create mass convoys of people,people can be poorer than dirt but still have a cell phone when they never seen a phone in their life.

It’s not just us,Britain and France is being inundated also,several other countries also.

For South America,the border countries filled up then the mass migration moved forward to the next country,Canada is not so bad because it is a long walk to their border.

Take like Chicago,7000 were bussed there but they show a net increase of 114,000.

There are only so many countries in the world where people can migrate to that is relatively safe,the U.S. is the one that offers the most opportunity and we do not like scum bag socialists,so dispite the political stuff we are a stable country where as other countries you simply have a coup.

Millions of Venezuelans went to Columbia,now the current political leanings in Columbia are socialist and if that continues long term,they With millions of Columbians will be at our border.

It has little to do with economics,because you can be poor but happy,we just set a different standard because 80% of the things we have are not really necessary for survival.

We need to get back to regime changes,the mass migration is the price we pay for not doing it.

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by JonWylie

Great explanation, very scholarly...

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Thread closed. No longer about Detroit.