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I didn't get a close look at it this morning, but it appears that the cornerstone of the building was removed over the weekend. It read something like "Erected to the Glory of God and to the Good of all Humanity" - or something close. There is a really nice lobby light inside. I wonder if someone finally got that too.
I wonder who would want to steal that?
I'll try to take a picture later today.
Maybe they thought that God had done nothing for Detroit and all humanity wasn't even close to being good - so they went and proved it.
Abandoned.
You're probably right Ocean.
Confirmed - Gone.
It looks like the concrete in front of it is fairly new, which could mean something was done there, either it may have been damaged or otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by JStone
what did it look like before? I've always admired this building but never took a close look at the cornerstone.
I wonder if that recessed area contained a time capsule?
a google street view doesn't reveal much detail, except that you can tell there is no hole as shown in JStone's pic ...
Here is what it looked like in 1938
http://dlxs.lib.wayne.edu/cgi/i/imag...y=1;view=image
You guys are good!
Can someone post some pics of the whole building, the details that matter and the general environment?
Nice pic Gnome.
Retroit, good point. I hadn't even thought about that. I bet there was something placed in there and I bet who ever took it, knew that.
Is there any online resources to search old newspaper clippings or is that a trip to the library?
Another pic. The building is so much more prominent on the corner when 2nd actually went through there. It's hardly noticeable now.
That building has got great potential. Art Deco architecture is still in high regard. I have always admired the building. I wonder if there are any plans for it? I can visualize it with new windows and some neon lighting. Someone saved the Elwood, although it was different building materials it was another Art Deco charmer. Damn, why wasn't I born rich instead of good looking, I could renovate the place. :D
When the building was constructed, it was smack dab within what is called skid row by the WSU Virutal library.
http://dlxs.lib.wayne.edu/cgi/i/imag...y=1;view=image
Michigan Ave at the intersection of 3rd looking towards downtown. This would be the backyard of Salvation Army. Now it is a parking lot.
http://dlxs.lib.wayne.edu/cgi/i/imag...y=1;view=image
South side of Michigan
http://dlxs.lib.wayne.edu/cgi/i/imag...ht=606.5;res=1
http://dlxs.lib.wayne.edu/cgi/i/imag...y=1;view=image
North side of Michigan between 3rd and 2nd
As what?Quote:
Originally Posted by kryptonite
The building is beautiful, I don't think anyone would argue otherwise.
But what is it's real potential?
Office? Given the crappy occupancy rates downtown and its somewhat isolated location would you really be able to get tenants?
Residential? There are no windows on the backside...so expect to pay a lot of money punching in new windows for residential use...if you can get that past the Secretary of the Interior without killing your historic tax credits. Does anyone have any idea of the interior vertical & horizontal circulation? Where are the stairs and what, if any hallways are there? These will be key cost drivers and may put some design limitations due [[again) to Sec. of Interior standards.
Does any know who even owns it?
It appears to be about 100 x 75 with three stories so about 22,000 s.f. give or take some. At $125 per foot all in for reno costs [[and that is a total SWAG) you are looking at $2.75 million excluding the acquistion costs.
That is not a HUGE nut to crack - 10% developer equity is only $275,000. Perhaps this could be a good project for the preservation community to rally around? Find a creative use. Form a non profit and do some fund raising - show the demo happy folks at the City how it is really done.
Here is a great chance to save a great building and stick it to the Demolition Jackson, you know, show the DDA and DEGC how it is REALLY done....anyone going to step up?
We could open up a:
DetroitYES!
..B..
..A..
..R..
:D
I agree, when I look at that building it just seems to scream "BAR". but there are apparently more than enough bars and restaurants downtown.
How about a coffee shop? hmm... maybe not - too large for that? A coffee shop/lunch deli combo?
Ya, with some nice Italian subsQuote:
Originally Posted by kryptonite
...and cage fighting on friday nights. :D
Since the building was once a Salvation Army facility, maybe the interior is a religious sanctuary rather than a three-storey structure?
It could be quite attractive if dolled-up with some period neon and lighting, and lettering/signage, you know.
Well, taking a former Salvation Army facility meant to take people out of the bars and turning it into a bar would certainly be high on the irony scale. Not sure how many patrons it would attract once the novelty had passed though...Quote:
Originally Posted by kryptonite
The interior is nice, but not swanky. The gym would make a nice dance floor.
A bar needs parking - and lots of it. Parking will need to be acquired from who ever owns the adjacent lot - either through direct acquistion or shared parking leasing / valet. That can be pricey
What about a customer service center for DTE? Easy to get to right off the free way...
What about housing gambling addiction rehab and other support services? Where are those currently housed?
Ha. What was that old meme about not drinking and driving? I guess we can toss that right out the window...Quote:
Originally Posted by PQZ
With regard to the parking situation, would it be possible to negotiate "air rights"? That could solve several issues at once. Although the Red Herring in all of this would be the casinos.
Air rights to what exactly? Are you presuming hter would be hovercraft being used by patrons?Quote:
Originally Posted by downandouterdrive
Air rights refer to obtaining the rights to build "upwards". Very common in places like New York. In fact, I want to say that the Book Cadillac parking garage sold air rights just a few years ago. I'm not sure if the hovercraft angle was presented to City Council.
But air rights for what?? will it just be a parking lot, or something useful, and as a result something that will go unused in Detroit.Quote:
Originally Posted by downandouterdrive
Now there's an idea: a bar with heliports on the roof. :eek:
:D
esp1986. I hear where you are coming from and I agree. Another well run bar in the D would do wonders for that area. Air rights or not.
PQZ - I'm all over it. Just as soon as I pay off my "worker's cottage" [[roughly 2030 something) I will divert all of my extraneous funds towards that $2.75 million.
Another pic of the area. [[notice, as PQZ pointed out - no rear windows!)
Parking, Parking. Focusing on a sea of parking for an island is 1960's mentality that has gotten Detroit no where. Denisty with public tranist is what needs to be the focus. Gnome posted pictures from maybe the 1950's, with street cars, people, streets lined with store fronts, the occasional bar and not a parking lot in sight. Now compare the photo of what JStone posted. Maybe 1960's, sea of parking without a street car in sight. Now maybe the areas are not exactly the same but which is more appealing? Regardless of the dates, it would be nice if something became of the building. The Salvation Army stills retains ownership.
Sure would like to know where JStone got that pic ... I looks to have been taken in the late 1950's to me, judging from the cars.
I pics I posted are all at the wsu virtual library ... search "skid row".
One thing of interest in JStone's pic I don't see the Town Apartments...on the right going north is 1st street, yes? On the left must be 2nd? But the Town Apartments should be right across from the MaBell... am I not seeing something right?
Only in Detroit would you think of turning a dishevelled Sally Ann into another... BAR!!! Love youse guys!
That picture is also in the Virtual Motor City. You are looking north. The Town Apartments aren't right across the street, but slightly north, and they blend in with the background. At that time State Street used to go through from Cass to Second and the apartments were north of State.Quote:
Originally Posted by gnome
http://detroityes.com/webisodes/2010...tion-07877.jpg
July 16, 2003
At a 2.75 mil renovation price, you won't be drinking $2 High Life there. You'll still be on DetroitYes grousing about the dbags who took over that building and turned it into a yuppie bar serving $12 martinis. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroit
That building looks like it could possibly be a William B. Stratton design.
He was the architect husband of Pewabic Pottery founder Mary Chase Perry Stratton... and he designed the Broadhead Naval Armory on Jefferson next to Belle Isle's MacArthur Bridge entrance.
No truer words were ever posted here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Huggybear
Who the hell would pay 12 dollars for a drink!!!!!???? This is a blue collar city. Not Howard Hughes.
Priceless!Quote:
Originally Posted by Huggybear
PQZ - Good one.
The pic is from Virtual Motorcity. It's strange that there are a ton of pics from the same era that seem to be focused on that parking structure. Just search on 2nd or Fort. We were and still are, obsessed with easy parking. Such a shame.
One more thing I noticed...
Look at the picture I posted of the building when 2nd ran through there. Do you see the emblem at the top of the building that seems to be carved out of the stone? Does that resemble anything you know of? Think when this building was erected. Prior to what? Now look at Lowell's modern era pic. It's covered up with a sign. Hmmm..
Attachment 5610
Der Salvation KlubHaus
gnome, could you please post an interior shot...you know, one with the topless waitresses serving free drinks?
Anyone else get a big kick out of that traffic signal posted in Lowell's photo? WHY ON EARTH is that still hanging there? 2nd hasn't gone through for several years and the other traffic light was removed, but that one is still hanging there, confusing motorists, who stop for no reason....who are already trying to figure out where their driving lane went with no warning....because it suddenly becomes a parking lane...and then there's a surprise traffic light with no meaning....excellent.
This is a cool building, when was it vacated? Did offices/facilities from this building move into the renovated Salvation Army bldg over on Fort east of Rosa Parks? This would be a cool building to renovate....DTE customer service center is not a bad idea...not sure of other potential uses unless some of the parking lots are built over.
in response to the PMs. The bashful should cover their eyes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroit
Attachment 5615.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnome
YOU'VE MADE MY DAY!!!:p:D
I googled myself silly...
More links
Flickr.
Detroit funk.
Flickr, close up.
Flickr, full frontal.
Last pictures were a year ago. Is that a concrete block in front of the entrance? Looks pretty run down from those pictures. Must be a good sign. No more poverty....
Nah... It's a steal!! It can be yours for a mere $875,000,-Quote:
Originally Posted by PQZ
That listing has expired so maybe the price has dropped even more.
BARGAIN!! ;)
Also in the list of Critical Detroit. [[A bit outdated since it still contains the Lafayette, Kresge and Farwell, which in essence is no more than a wall....)
A Detnews picture gallery, called "Dead buildings..."
Take a deep breath. Look at this amaizing lamp inside the building!!
http://multimedia.detnews.com/pix/ef...ldings008T.jpg
Is that still hanging there?
http://multimedia.detnews.com/pix/80...ldings145T.jpg
Looks like the dedication stone was still in place in this shot.
A tiny ironic twist; the MGM Grand opposite this building is also build in an Art Deco style.
:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by gnome
On second thought, tear that schitt down.
Barf............. oh please... don't tell me that's Monica Conyers.... Photoshopped....:[[Quote:
Originally Posted by gnome
Was that building always a Salvation Army building? Or did it become one later?
Quote:
Look at the picture I posted of the building when 2nd ran through there. Do you see the emblem at the top of the building that seems to be carved out of the stone? Does that resemble anything you know of? Think when this building was erected. Prior to what? Now look at Lowell's modern era pic. It's covered up with a sign. Hmmm..
The suspense is killing me! The lower portion of the carving appears to resemble a modified [[simplified for the ease of engraving?) version of the official Salvation Army Crest:Quote:
Originally Posted by JStone
http://www.detroityes.com/mb/images/attach/jpg.gif
Not sure about the top part. Kind of reminds me of the Nazi emblem:
http://www.detroityes.com/mb/images/attach/jpg.gif
Is that what you are referring to?
Let me put this in perspective, since you may be too young to know about this.
There was a lot of enthusiasm for ancient Roman motifs in the United States in the late 19th and early 20th centuries - and for good reason: many people thought that the United States was the new Rome. Our money and government buildings were bristling with eagles, laurel wreaths, and fasces [[the bundle of sticks with an axe in the middle that symbolizes the state's power of corporal and capital punishment). Take a walk around the federal courthouse if you don't believe this. Washington DC is jam-packed with this stuff [[as well as neoclassical buildings).
An eagle atop a laurel wreath is the traditional Roman battle standard. That consists of an aquila [[eagle) and a vexillum [[flag). The vexillum had a laurel wreath with SPQR [[senatus populusque romanus - senate and people of Rome). See here for an illustration. This is what was on the Wayne County chariot before WWII. Or watch things like Gladiator or Rome.
Reproductions of Roman standards were not uncommon. Art Deco, though, appropriated the Native American thunderbird motif, and the Nazis essentially made an Art Deco version of the Roman standard. Then the Nazis went and murdered about 13 million people and the Roman-style standard [[along with the Indian swastika and right-handed Roman salute) went out of fashion. It is not surprising that things that even coincidentally resembled Nazi motifs were obscured or destroyed after WWII. It's almost like the drive to wipe out the Diego Rivera Court - created before we were enemies with the USSR - when someone discovered that Rivera had a red star on his glove.
Now what reminds me of Nazis is the neon sign for Thunderbird Lanes on Maple in Troy - which has an Art Deco eagle atop a bowling ball. Built after WWII in an all-white suburb, there is no good explanation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroit
Oh darn, and here I thought we found a cover-up of pre-WWII Salvation Army Nazi sympathizers. :D