http://on.freep.com/1RA4K8m
WOW! Huge move by illitch. Great piece of land as well along Woodward and Temple street. Open by 2018
http://on.freep.com/1RA4K8m
WOW! Huge move by illitch. Great piece of land as well along Woodward and Temple street. Open by 2018
Apparently he wants to change what his legacy will be. Doing things like this will certainly do that. What a great gift!
Wow, this is a huge deal. Probably a good sign that Olympia entities are serious about building development, as this provides one natural source of new residents.
I've long said that this development was serious after years of planning it was more than a simple arena. Envision the area up to Grand River on the west and surrounding Cass Park and the Ledyard neighborhood to develop sooner rather than later. The business school will add 3000 people into the area and considering night classes one expect 18 hours of activity. We will see the bridge of Foxtown to Orchestra Place happen.
To be built at the former location of this beautiful rustic structure:
http://www.placepromo.com/DUCP/09/woodward2755.jpg
Isn't it interesting how the Woodward corridor between downtown and cultural center is becoming a university row of sorts. It started with UM moving into Orchestra place in '07, followed by Michigan State Detroit Center in the Albert Kahn building next the Bonstelle/Temple Beth El, also Kahn. Then Grand Valley in the Home Telephone/Jewish Welfare Assoc/Barden building, then Lawrence Tech's in its soon-to-open Detroit center at Willis and now this. I can't say how happy I am to see the rise of this area with its recognition of the importance of Detroit.
Me too.
What is neat about this, is that WSU has been trying for years to build a new home for its business school. Haven't raised the $. It was supposed to be at Woodward and Palmer or Ferry. Where a parking lot is.
WSU students can take M-1 rail from the main campus to this building.
As Bob and others indicate, whenever there is a sporting event at the arena, other arena event, a school day, etc. the area will be hopping...
When I listed the buildings that the Ilitches planned to build, a building on this corner was one, but I never thought it would have the foot traffic of a university building.
This may sound pedestrian [[not in the good sense, like 'walkability') but I wonder if a fast food restaurant might spring up somewhere in the area.
Students attending all day classes or evening classes might want a quick meal. Those attending events at the arena may wish for a quick burger rather than going to Hockeytown.
"Since we are in the neighborhood', how about the block from Temple to Charlotte along the West side of Woodward?
I see three 'things' there:
1). Surface parking,
2). Vietnam Veterans building,
3). Various store front commercial establishments
I believe that I read that #2 will be staying. What about #1 and maybe repurpose #3?
I assume today #1, surface parking, is now very valuable land, as it ONE block from the new arena.
IF it remains surface parking, it will make a ton of money for the owners. Twenty five dollar event parking? Maybe a lot more. Easy access to northbound Woodward.
Wouldn't a reno be better? That building is amazing [[though now in terrible shape) and really fits across from the DIA.
emu steve, I think fast food places will be the least of your concerns once this, Eddystone, and the arena are finished. Wasn't the whole point of the "open" arena concept that parts of the concourse would be accessible as a sort of arcade, even when there's no game? If so I'm sure the Illitches are planning to do things such that they have a nice [[semi-captive) audience for those outlets :)
Another huge announcement.
Maybe. Just maybe, after all these years, with the family claiming they were playing the "long game" with development, they are finally going to unleash their master plans and dump the hundreds of millions of dollars they have been planning to into the city.
It will not completely erase the "slumlord" or the neglectful property owner or demolition happy status the family has come to be known by, but these recent developments are maybe showing that we shouldn't have so strongly doubted their commitment to the city. True, as with anything, we can't count chickens before they hatch, but if all of these plans come to fruition, I'd think even the most staunch Illitch haters would have to take a step back and reevaluate their position on him.
well, kudos, for sure, for this development.
Is the 40 million in addition to the 250 million of promised ancillary development?
No idea. My impression last summer was that it could use a ton of money, cleanup, and restoration work. It mostly just looked like a great building that's now sad and dilapidated, especially after coming from the DIA across the street which is fantastic. If those are just cosmetic issues and not structural, then great.
Wanna explain WHY Detroit needs a NEW Main Public Library?? :confused:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-6mtyGnpRar...ary%2B1921.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-U9_CsL6J-P...%2BWto658o.jpg
The man who is doing the most for the world today is Bill Gates. His foundation is making extraordinary progress is fighting disease and poverty. I recall a time when he was being criticized for making ZERO contributions to charity.
The 1% really do give back to society. They don't always do it Elizabeth Warren's way -- through taxes. But think Carnegie Libraries, Karamanos Cancer, Ford Foundation. We're a strong country in part because there's a strong ethos among the rich to give back.
Thanks, Mike.
Sorry if I come across as a shill for the Ilitches, but we need to remember at least one, if not more than one fact:
Seven years ago [[Sept/Oct. 2008) the country faced the worst financial collapse since the Great Depression.
Because of that much was lost [[jobs, houses, etc.) and also opportunities to continue building new buildings, etc. etc. because of very weak demand, tight credit, etc. The progress made regarding the Super Bowl effort kind of came to a crashing halt.
If the Ilitches could have gotten ALL the land behind the Fox that they needed and Sept/Oct 2008 had not happened, we might have been building the arena and related developments say five or more years ago. I believe Chris Ilitch has stated it directly or indirectly.
The whole process of building a new arena and related development got elongated because of some factors beyond the Ilitches control.
The past is the past and everything seems 'full speed ahead.'
The Ilitches seem very willing, private and public money is available, market conditions in Detroit seem right for more apartments, renting suites, expanding their headquarters, etc.
BTW, I wonder if the 40M a). meets part of the 200M requirement [[I assume it does. why not?) and b). It becomes a charitable write-off.
Everyone wins from Ilitches, WSU [[including business students), Detroit, land owners in the arena area, etc. [[the Vietnam Vets association is sitting on one sweet parking lot.)
Ilitches are CREATING wealth for all of those land owners who own or have sold, including the Masonic Temple [[parking lot), those buildings by Cass and Ledyard, building along Grand River both sides of the Lodge, etc. [[essentially anything in the Arena District and Cass West area).
Now that we know what will be happening on Woodward between Sproat and Temple, I'm not fascinated what folks with big bucks will do for the block between Temple and Charlotte as Woodward Ave. continues to building by building become a nice place... :)
Detroit may not be a huge destination for students [[we only have one university in central Detroit) but it can be a destination for graduates across the country and the world to move. Detroit is a place were young people can build wealth through buying homes, property and starting businesses, where most other places it's just far too expensive to do so.
Whoop dee do!!! for Mike Il-leetch!
And think of the teeny tiny amounts the Waltons give, almost all of which goes to their own family foundation. And that is after the taxpayers pony up for assistance to the struggling underpaid Walmart employees. Speaks volumes that you have to cite Carnegie, who has been dead almost 100 years.
BTW, 2018 for the new WSU school of business makes sense.
If my understanding of how buildings are done, the contractors will complete the arena and as soon as they are 'out of the way' and their equipment which is stored on that block between Sproat and Temple is removed, then work can begin on the new building.
So work on the new building could begin say second half of 2017 or early 2018.
The next question would be if someone wants to buy the Vietnam Veterans surface parking lot at Temple/Woodward and would they be interested in building something there? What makes sense?
There is a lot of truth to what WestCoast says: The American taxpayer does subsidize those employees at places like Walmart who receive food stamps, maybe Medicaid or maybe subsidies on their Obamacare, and also pay very low amount of federal income taxes because of low wages, etc.
If those employees were paid say 15 bucks or 17.50, they wouldn't be eligible for food stamps, Medicaid, would receive smaller Obamacare subsidies and would pay federal income taxes by exceeding the min. threshold.
There are very definite 'income transfers' from the federal government to the working poor.
Raising the min. wage not only helps those at the bottom but the next rung up. Wages would 'cascade up' for those who were making slightly above the min. wage.
I'm glad he is finally replacing the downtown business school he tore down to build Comerica.
Now, if he can just replace all of the other buildings he demolished while "developing" Detroit.
without dwelling in the past, a new headquarters building, apartments adjacent to Comerica, a hotel at Henry/Woodward [[it will come I'd guess in 2017 or 18), new arena, and a 120K square foot education building is a nice start.
That is five building projects with frontage on Woodward. :)
Maybe we should have some 2013 photos and do a before and after [[2018) slideshow... Folks are getting exactly what they asked for: buildings with streetwall on Woodward over what a half mile [[or more) stretch...
Does this count against the new development he's required to create to get his sweet side subsidy? It would be a neat trick if he got to write it off and reap the benefits of "creating development."
I assume so, BUT, since when do folks give money away to make money?
When I give money to charity I assume that for every 100 bucks I give I'll get say 30 - 35 bucks back in my tax refunds [[federal and state).
Since when is giving away 100 bucks today and getting 30 bucks back next year a good 'financial' deal?????
I donate to charity for the charitable purpose, it isn't a way to MAKE money or save money on taxes...
All of that said, I think the Ilitches will go WELL over 200M on development per the agreement.
They will probably go well over on the arena. They are paying the cost overruns, I believe.
The Crain's article about the school showed an updated model of the area with the new building
http://i.imgur.com/RKVomEP.jpg
I wonder how accurate the model is for what will actually be constructed. Looks good in that sea of parking though...
Detnews has a drawing of the new building:
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/bus...ings/74799678/
But raising the minimum wage also means costs 'cascade up'. The only way it works is if they 'earn' the wage increase- in other words, what they're doing is worth the raise otherwise it's all artificial. If an employee is worth more per hour he/she can go out and get a job that pays more. It also makes if difficult for entry level workers to find work. No employer wants to [[for that matter, can!) pay an entry level employee in many fields $15 or more an hour. Waving a magic wand raising someone's salary doesn't fix anything.
Bullshit. Productively has been rising for 30 years, with no corresponding increase in effective wages for the typical worker. In other words, virtually everyone has been earning it but not getting it.
Give a $10 worker an increase and all of it is recycled into goods and services.
Where things get murky, I think, is that productivity of workers has been largely because of advances in IT and tech in general. Think of computer aided design of cars or number crunching with computer programs rather than paper and pencil [[and calculator) 50 years ago, robotics, etc.
Companies have been able to do more with less employees.
I think we need to get back to Henry Ford's original idea of worker as both worker and customer.
Whenever we export a high paying job, e.g., someone engineering a car or plane or computer tablet or smart phone overseas, we lose a good customer [[the employee with money is somewhere else).
I assume companies like Apple have engineers, etc. on site where their high tech products are manufactured.
BTW, that is quite a drawing.
It appears to have full frontage on Woodward from Sproat to Temple. It's height seem to be consistent with the height of the arena. The WSU logo will be prominently displayed.
Woodward from the Fisher to Temple will be a sight to behold.
Congrats to WSU and WSU business students who who will be in a 21st century building, beautiful building in a great location probably with every tech innovation known to students, etc.
If they also have classes, e.g., electives, on main campus, they can hop M-1 to get there.
Hopefully during the day, cheap parking in the parking deck behind the arena.
I'd guess that there will be internship opportunities with the Ilitches headquarters a few blocks away.
This is huge for WSU and its business school. No two ways about it...
I'm waiting for the 1st snide comment about 5 buck pizzas in a student lounge... or maybe 'catered' by a new Little Caesars store blocks away... Maybe a Little Caesars at the corner of Temple / Woodward [[northwest corner which is surface parking now). :)
Agreed but probably for different reasons. I think it looks horrendous and the historic look they're going for is way too contrived. The school has a tradition of modern structures, most notably with yamasaki's buildings, and I'd rather see them go that route. My guess is they want something that says education just by looking at it which is unfortunate.
Different view of the building...
Attachment 28542
I don't have a good feel for architecture [[although I know what I don't like when I see it).
My only comment is:
This is a standalone building FAR removed from the WSU campus so the design should be in harmony with the ARENA and not with the campus as a whole.
I do have a WSU degree so I feel comfortable saying this: Wayne's campus is as odd collection of buildings with many different styles, colors, etc.
I find the campus unattractive.
One of the nicest campuses in America is Miami [[Ohio). It is a collection of red brick buildings and looks in harmony. I have been on the campus. http://miamioh.edu/admission/visit-opps/index.html
I can't find harmony on the WSU campus.
That's actually not the ugliest building I've ever seen. While it does have a faux-historic feel which can sometimes be cheesy, I don't see it that way. I like the front steps leading out on the sidewalk and street which is cool. It's going to be a good puzzle piece to give some merging between downtown and midtown that hasn't been there in nearly 3 generations.
The building that fronts Woodward looks awful - some cheesy attempt to look old, but it looks really tacky. Especially for the prime location. The building behind looks nice, but dear lord the entrance is bad.
What I like, I think, is that much of the building as well as the 'Bonstelle dome' seems to fit with the arena.
The arena is 'bold' [[all major league arena, baseball and football stadia are bold) and the new building is bold. [[It might not look good in the middle of a corn field or empty block, but next to the arena it is fine).
The arena will have a 'dome'.
As I previously indicated, the height of the main part of the building is consistent with the height of the new arena.
It has a set back from Woodward as the arena seems to have a buffer between Woodward and the main part of the arena.
The building says: WAYNE STATE UNIVERSITY
It makes a powerful statement. The name of the building and the university name should be very prominent. When someone is in the area for an event or driving on Woodward it should catch one's attention, and it does, just like the buildings beyond the outfield at Comerica Park.
This building will be a big selling point for the WSU school of business.
I can't think of anything 'cooler' than a bus ad student taking an accounting class in that building, taking M-1 to main campus for an econ class, etc. :)
Can't say I hate the design, but can't say I love it either. For the entrance, it'll really depend on the materials they use, it could turn out pretty nice, if they don't go cheap on it.
The building in the renderings doesn't dazzle me, but I'm OK with good architecture that isn't dazzling. Dazzle is over-rated. You end up with icons, that sometimes aren't pratical nor timely.
My issue with the renderings are the trees. The building looks like its hidden by trees. Are they embarassed, or are the architects just unable to put away their little fake trees. Its a building, not a park.
MSUguy, I agree. If they use decent materials and don't add any weird quirks, it will be fine. And the minimal setback is very nice.
While I sympathize with Southen that this is a missed opportunity to do something cutting edge, I do not think that this is bad, and I also think that it is a good use of the site.
For the life of me emu I can't see how this building fits in with the arena or is in harmony with the arena... The back end of the building seems to be more modern but the front of the building doesn't tie into anything in the area or on WSU's campus. If they are going for something to mimic the Bonstelle down the street I think it is a very poor decision. That building has been altered over the years and doesn't come to mind when I think of Wayne State's architecture or identity. Mimic Old Main if you are going to do anything like that.
Also, I am trying to figure out why the renderings show the building taking up the entire block next to the arena while the model that the Illitch's have only shows it occupying the northern half of the block. Who has that wrong?
I don't think the Ilitches get the credit they deserve for the entire project between the Fisher and Temple.
They are trying to control and build a perimeter around their arena with buildings which meet their design expectations.
For example, wouldn't it be tacky to have a McDonalds [[OR WORSE, like nothing, i.e., surface parking) at the corner of Henry and Woodward or Sproat and Woodward.
A hotel at Henry and Woodward and the WSU building at Sproat/Temple is as good as it gets.
As DetroitBob mentioned, the WSU building will produce a lot of student activity on school days, I assume more than 'captive' workers stuck in an office building for 8 or more hours. A new hotel will produce more foot traffic.
I believe the Ilitches are trying to buy those houses by Clifford and Temple [[or Sproat, I forget).
As I've mentioned before the next 'key' block on Woodward will be between Temple and Charlotte. 1/3 of the frontage is now surface parking and the rest retail buildings.
I have no idea if the Ilitches are trying to acquire any or all of those properties.
Could Wayne State someday buy those buildings and convert them into some kind educational space maybe IT labs, etc.
Okay, let me summarize my point for any architects on this forum:
"To me, the harmony has to be between the educational building and the arena. By that I mean, design elements and style as well as things like set back from Woodward, etc.
Bonstelle is too far [[two blocks) away to be a direct design consideration, although if the dome on the bus ad build fits with the roof of the arena, I'm okay.
That said, I do see how the 'Bonstelle-type' dome is very, very different then the ultra-modern roof of the new arena.
I would have to see side-by-side models to have a good feel but I would leave it to architects..."
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...plan-for-wayne
this thing looks GORGEOUS
Kudos to the illitches.. another piece from the article:
"The $40 million donation is not part of the $200 million investment that is a contractual component of the Ilitches’ deal with the city’s Downtown Development Authority to operate the arena, which is scheduled to open in fall 2017."
http://i.imgur.com/vCuyi3Q.png
Gorgeous? It's completely ghastly. If you're going for a neoclassical look, I don't understand the back taller portion - it doesn't fit the style at all. And the lettering on that building is very casino-esque. Ilitch seems to be drawing inspiration from a project happening in his ancestral homeland.
I'm very happy he's giving money for a new business school but I do hope they choose a different design.
Good article by our friend, Bill Shea, referenced above.
WSU is raising 15M as part of their fund raising campaign.
So the project is 50M, exclusive of land?
Okay: big question?
Who is designing the building? Ilitches or WSU? Jointly?
EDIT: I might add, as I mentioned earlier, that WSU was attempting to fund raise for YEARS to build a new bus ad building at Woodward between Ferry and Palmer. The WSU president a half dozen years ago told me they didn't have the money... [[I caught him at a WSU FB game. I actually went to a couple during the Joique Bell era).
Oh puh-lease.... if you want to see ghastly... just look at WSU's State Hall, the Purdy Library, or this modern monstrosity that they added like a barnacle to the back of Old Main.... :[[
The Ilitch's are Macedonian... which shared an architectural tradition with ancient Greece... Granted it's a bit on the pastiche side... but it will be an interesting complement to the many classical buildings along Woodward.... Orchestra Hall, Bonstelle Theatre, DIA, DPL.... etc.
I think the non "innovative architecture" crowd will NOT complain here... at least we don't have a trash compacted Gehry design or something with a carport top we'll have to look at. [[P.S. Not every modern innovative design is bad, but some are soooo predictabe.)
I think the building[[s) look quite nice, actually.
They are quite nice. Don't expect the people on here who want to rebuild Detroit in the image of the 1940s to do anything except piss of them because Mike Illitches' name is on it.
Detroit will never move forward until it rids itself of people who only want to focus on the past.
Terrible design. I disagree with the premise of "neoclassical" [[wrong continent, wrong millennium. Will the students be required to wear togas to class?), but if you're going to do neoclassical then do a good job of it. It's not rocket science. I'll also add that if you're going for something populist, people would overwhelmingly prefer an actual neoclassical building to the clipart version of a neoclassical building.
And does anyone actually think mullet architecture is good in any way? Stolid tradition in the front, and 21st century tactical synergy projection in the back.
It's terrible that the people who are trying to say that Detroit is some kind of cultural hot spot are the same people responsible for this stuff.
I have a question:
1a). Are the Ilitches putting up $35M, plus 5M endowment, plus leasing the land [[$1 / year lease)?
1b). Otherwise, is this a WSU building which they will design, have built, maintain, etc?
Kind of like dad saying: Here is 25K for a graduation present - go out and buy a car. Your choice.
Attachment 28552
Took the words right out of my mouth
BTW, sounds like WSU is responsible for building it...
And updated timeline.
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/bus...itch/74876620/
BTW, now that we've all pretty much had our say about the design of the new WSU school of business, I wonder about the block between Temple and Charlotte.
Would a CVS look good at the N.W. corner of Temple and Woodward? [[in front of the DTE sub-station on Temple)?
Would the rest of the block be good for lofts?
OR maybe turn the rest of the block into a CVS, instead of what is there now? Would there be enough foot traffic in the area, including Crosswinds, new housing in the area, student and arena traffic, etc. to support a nice drug store? [[I realize that a Whole Food is also in the area).
We are posting on what looks good one block from the arena. How about two blocks away?
After all, each block has another contiguous block which could detract from it. Is this not a parallel to neighborhoods where someone has a well kept house and next to it is a burnt out house or a field of weeds?
Neighborhoods matter and neighborhoods are a collection of structures and blocks, not simply one, two or three.
There are so many campuses that are worse than Wayne's, you all need to stop shitting on it and notice that it actually has a great layout and several significant buildings. It has a couple of very poor buildings that detract and it's probably what you all have in mind-- particularly the student center and athletic center. And it has too much surface parking infringing on its outskirts.
Most campuses are not "harmonious" architecturally and aren't supposed to be. UM's is not, yet it's one of the best campuses you can find-- total mis-mash integrated with downtown Ann Arbor. Likewise with Columbia or Penn. In these three cases, the harmony comes from the layout and from where the different paths, streets, and sidewalks lead you, crossing between a wide variety of buildings. Only a few have harmonious architecture, and they are quite special places-- say, Yale, Harvard. Perhaps Indiana too with all of its limestone everywhere.
Perhaps I just have a preference for urban, consolidated campuses, but I really truly dislike MSU and other land-grant campuses that get idealized for some reason. Feels to me like a big community college on a too-large piece of land with a couple pretty old buildings to give it, thankfully, some sort of identity.
The thing I noticed is that the rendering hides the empty space between the school and the stadium. Almost didn't notice that the block somehow got so narrow even if Temple is to be widened [[which doesn't seem to be reflected in the scale model).
Also interesting, in the top corner of this rendering which was released in June, you can see the back-end of the school. Leads me to believe this school might have been planned for quite early in development.
http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/ba07...ter-Aerial.jpg
As I am "EMU Steve" [[I could also be "WSU Steve"), I would like to call attention to EMU's campus which is quite nice. It isn't as nice as Miami[[O), maybe the nicest in the country or Washington & Lee [[I haven't seen it), etc.
Whenever I'm in the the area I drive through. I look at the buildings from say Washtenaw Ave. and the red brick fits. I don't think I'm looking at a half dozen or dozen individual buildings which look like they belong on different campuses.
If took take photos of say a dozen EMU buildings and gave them to someone and say individually: WSU, EMU, Oakland, UDM, etc.?
I suspect that the viewer would say "EMU" to each of the photographs.
Likewise, take the Prentiss Building [[isn't that where Bus Ad is at WSU?) and say:
Detroit-Mercy, EMU, Oakland, WSU?
I assume most would say "WSU". Why? It is such an usual design it doesn't fit at say UDM, EMU, etc....
Here is a link to EMU's buildings [[virtual tour). Check out say McKenney, Student Union, Halle Library, Pease Auditorium, Marshall, Quirk, etc. etc.
The harmony is pretty good!!
http://www.emich.edu/aboutemu/
The Detroit News reported in January that Illitch was seeking to lure the School of Business to its District Detroit as part of the $200M in new development.
I'm very critical of this move: Many Michigan colleges & universities continue to press forward aggressive expansion plans, despite the state's shrinking base of school aged residents. And Wayne County, which "supplies" nearly half of WSU's students, is seeing the largest declines.
WSU's enrollment is down 17.5% from its peak in 2007, and the drop would've been over 20% if not for the surge of students from neighboring states and Ontario now paying in-state tuition. Instead of accepting reality, WSU wants to pretend that 'if you build it, they will come.'
The overwhelming majority of WSU's facilities are antiqued, especially the classrooms which look straight out the '60s and '70s. Yes, Illitch is paying for most of the new building, but WSU is still contributing millions, plus absorbing the annual operations cost -- money that would be better spent on incumbent facilities.
This past January, the School of Business scheduled a handful of classes at a Downtown location -- all were cancelled due to low enrollment. Most of WSU's commuters will drive past the school en route to the new business school, whereas persons living on/near campus will now have to take a shuttle [[or ride the M-1). That's a head scratcher! Of course, maybe WSU's trying to attract Graduate students, student counts which were free-falling until WSU reversed the trend this year. You know how? By moving most classes to online, 7.5-week formats.
Wow. Sounds like you are saying WSU should just shutter its windows and slowly fade into the sunset.
I have to say I disagree with much of what you are saying.
First, you are correct about decline in graduate business students at WSU [[page 29).
http://wayne.edu/engaging-gened/docu..._fall_2014.pdf
There were a few graduate programs which had significant declines from 2013 -> 14. Business, Nursing, etc.
Second, however, WSU is in the middle of a huge fund raising campaign. The remaining 15M or so will come from that campaign. As I posted above, WSU has been trying for say 10 years to raise enough funds to build a new school of business building at Woodward/Ferry/Palmer. All of this predates the arena venture.
How can past experience with past experience with a few downtown classes correlate with a grad bus ad student or upperclassman taking all [[or almost all) of their classes in this new building?
For example, a working student takes an evening class and after the class heads over to Hockeytown and watches the end of a Red Wings game while having a drink and bite to eat.
Or a day student after classes on Thursday afternoon walks over to Comerica for a Tigers afternoon game.
I do, however, want to hear how parking will be handled. Fans attending pro sports are used to paying say 20 bucks for parking. Students are not. Will student buy parking passes to the new parking deck behind the arena?
Everyone knows that WSU is the college of last resort for people seeking more than an associates degree. Certainly, the county needs to be working more on teaching most who live there how to read, write and do arithmetic rather than working on aggressive expansion plans. You are correct. The other buildings at WSU are dumps. I would not put too much weight on your comment on the shrinking number of school aged residents. State universities are more interested in admitting out of state and foreign students where they make much more money than worrying about educating their own residents. That's why Wayne's enrollment hasn't tanked completely. They can always pack in foreign students from everywhere and they don't care how bad the facilities are as long as Wayne will take their TOEFL scores.
I don't think the building looks bad. Actually, compared to the last rendering of the Hudson site, I feel this building looks quite nice.
I said/implied no such thing. What I said was that WSU's population has been declining and will continue to decline; instead of spending millions [[in addition to Illitch's gift) building a new structure that will cost seven figures annually to operate, the money would be better spent improving incumbent facilities. Even after the new business school opens, WSU still needs to renovate the space within the Prentis Building.
I acknowledge WSU has been trying to build a new business school for more than 10 years, but things have changed. Its student population is in decline -- 17.5% since 2007, although the number's closer to 25%-30% when you discount the number of non-college ready students WSU began admitting to plug its losses [[a practice that's earned the school plenty of criticism due to high drop out rate; a couple years ago, the school began offering 7.5-week summer "crash courses" in math & literacy to correct this -- free of charge, including room & board).Quote:
Second, however, WSU is in the middle of a huge fund raising campaign. The remaining 15M or so will come from that campaign. As I posted above, WSU has been trying for say 10 years to raise enough funds to build a new school of business building at Woodward/Ferry/Palmer. All of this predates the arena venture.
Also worth mentioning that leadership within the business school is pushing to strengthen undergrad grad requirements to a minimum of 2.0 in all required precore/core/major courses -- equivalent to the national standard, but also likely to shave off quite a few students.
I disagree. Yes, it's easier to get into and graduate from WSU's business school, but a student with a 3.5 GPA is going to get the same local employment opportunities as students with similar GPAs [[and work/extracurricular backgrounds) at OU, EMU and even MSU. I would argue that the employment prospects are better for the WSU grad than at OU & EMU simply because leadership is more active in bringing employers to campus. [[Of course, employers go to MSU and WSU will never be able to match that.)
A "college of last resort" would be Baker. I say that only because few employers actively recruit Baker grads. When I went with a friend to Baker's career fair last fall, the majority of jobs available were menial and did not require any college education. Of the few employers that were seeking four-year degrees, most [[Quicken Loans, Northwestern Mutal, etc.) cared less about a student's academic achievement [[they just had to have a degree) and more about their ability to sell.
As far as international & out-of-state students, only UM & MSU bring in significant numbers. Only about 5%-7% of WSU's population historically pays out-of-state or international tuition [[so that excludes "good neighbors.")
You supply a lot of data regarding certain problems at WSU, HOWEVER[[!!), you fail to realize that the money is a gift toward a BUILDING at a particular LOCATION with naming rights for the benefactor.
The Ilitches aren't giving WSU a gift card to 'use as it sees best.' It isn't to renovate Prentiss or any other building project on the main campus.
They are giving them a building for 30 cents on the dollar, a bargain. This building has been a priority for WSU for 10 years. It meets an identified need.
It will be up to Wayne to 'leverage' that gift the best they can. For example, it might be nice to have say 100-unit graduate student housing in Brush Park.
Also a closer relationship between the school of business and the Ilitches enterprises. I wouldn't be surprised if Little Caesars didn't agree to take a specified number of interns each year.
For those into statistics, it might be interesting to study the quantity and quality of the new applicants for the school of business, esp. the grad program starting, comparing new applicants for say 2018 with those of 2015.
I will commend him for his generosity. WSU needs big donors to help upgrade facilities no doubt.
I question if this new building would have better served the students and faculty of the university by being on campus, seems to me it would have. I can't see where the students benefit having the newest state of the art beautiful building way off campus right next door to a professional hockey arena. Why are the Ilitch companies going to retain title to the property the building is built on? Is any parking included in the gift? I have to question that because parking is a huge part of their Detroit business empire and might have something to do with why they need to dictate that this building is built right next to their newest Ilitch owned parking expansion in Detroit.
To find out how much this family is really concerned about "connecting" parts of Detroit together look at what is happening at The Fine Arts Building that they own between Fox town and downtown right on Grand Circus Park and you can see its not very much because it remains an eyesore and an embarrassment.
http://detroit.curbed.com/archives/2...facadomy-1.php
What is the plan for The United Artist Building? Still appears to be nothing also. Others are making investments to bring long vacant buildings back into the people business but not the Ilitch family. They will not even touch the buildings they have owned for decades except to demo for surface parking.
When you do the math, more like 20% of the number of full time graduate and undergraduate students are foreign students.
It only takes 6 months to become a resident and pay at that rate and there are numerous scholarships for foreign students. In addition, residents from Ontario or any of the other Great Lake states — Illinois, Indiana, Minnesota, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin pay resident tuition. Also, undocumented students qualify as residents and pay resident tuition. With all this, the percentage of true resident students is even lower.
For a public, not for profit college, all you have to do is pretty much be breathing and Wayne will take you.
I completely realize this and addressed it in my above postings: it's not a "free" building, WSU is contributing an estimated $15M-$20M [[depending on the source) and then WSU will absorb the annual operating cost, which will likely swell into seven figures given the need to shuttle students between it & the main campus. Put simply, that's a lot of cash that would be better spent upgrading incumbent facilities.
False dichotomy.
It is an 'almost' free, beautiful, state of the art, etc. etc. building in a location probably of the Ilitches' choosing.
The other choice probably would be: Nothing.
That said, I'm not sure that being on the main campus is a better option for WSU and the business students esp. graduate business students.
All I can do is speak what I think, if I were a 21 year old student again, and that is I'd much prefer to be at the new building and wish WSU had student housing near the new building for upperclassmen/grad students.
Very cool thing to do for Detroit.
We've kind of beat this horse to death, but one last point about the Ilitches' motivation.
I doubt it is about parking revenue, etc. etc. BUT I have LONG maintained that Ilitches are dead serious about seeing quality buildings surrounding their new arena.
That block [[actually those blocks) between Sproat and Temple are adjacent to the arena.
Who wants a 500M state of the art arena and have a desolate block with Woodward frontage next to it? Who else would build a 40 - 50M office building there outside the downtown area? Would we rather the Ilitches sell the block and have a McDonalds or Burger King built there?
My guess is that the Ilitches decided that it is best to be involved in building a structure at that block and this was an ideal project.
Worst yet, without this new building maybe some of the old existing buildings between Sproat and Temple [[at Park) would remain and that wouldn't be aesthetically good.
Maybe this new building encourages rehabbing of the alhambra apartments? Maybe something along Woodward between Temple and Charlotte?
Like, hello, now that M-1 is coming to New Center folks are buying up store fronts there. Why not buy up the store fronts at Charlotte/Woodward?
Crains has a very nice article with some updated and very interesting info:
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...-raising-funds
1). Ground to be broke this coming spring, 2016? and completion by say Dec 2017. Eighteen months to complete? Does that seem unusually long?
2). WSU has 2,400 undergrad business students and 850 grad. The dean is quoted as saying grad enrollment this fall is up almost 100 over previous fall enrollments.
3). Could add approximately 600 undergrad and 650 more business students once in the new building.
I have one comment for the naysayers, etc.:
This project, obviously, has the blessing of the dean of the school of business at Wayne State.
I would hope that the dean [[and others) within the school of business are capable of making a first rate, well thought out, etc. business decision.
Otherwise... Why are parents sending their children and $ there to learn from them???
Or, because if you DO have the test scores and grades, it's free or close to it thanks to scholarships. Wayne is a well-known back up for solid kids coming out of privileged districts that do not make it into UM and are too smart to go waste their money away out of state, or needlessly travel to the west side of the state for an education that's no better than Wayne. Plus, Wayne is a more interesting place to live for some 20-year-olds than western MI
Steve, how are these not strings attached? Naming rights being a given but the gift toward a "BUILDING at a particular LOCATION" could smell like a location that benefits the benefactor and not the University. I lived on campus at more than one University and I remember clearly that know one wanted to have a class at the farthest flung building from the dorms, cafe and other classes.
Actually, I WAS making the point that there are strings attached. The benefactor has a chosen location. The U was not free to come up with their own usage of the money or build the building where they wish.
While we discuss the location [[or design, or both) of the building school, let's not forget that this is the 2nd big gift Mike Ilitch has made to WSU.
Previously he gave 8.5M to the department of surgery.
That's a total of nearly 50M, a very, very impressive sum for Wayne State.
50M is 10% of the endowment of a large number of universities [[many universities have endowments of less than 500M).
If they can't get into Michigan, then they don't have the grades and scores to get into any other schools of that caliber in state or out.
You get what you pay for. Since Wayne is cheap, expect that is the type of education you will have received when you walk out. Instructors will always dumb the classes down to the lowest common denominator. That doesn't happen at schools like Michigan or a similar caliber where the instructors raise the bar not lower it.
My mother told me many [[many) years ago that there is a Jill for every Jack.
Jack doesn't need to be handsome, rich, brilliant, etc.
Jill doesn't need to be beautiful, rich, brilliant, etc.
Leading men in Hollywood many times select leading ladies in Hollywood.
Most people OTOH just find someone they are happy to spend their lives. Not the most brilliant or handsome/beautiful, etc. in their zip code.
As I understand it, the ACT test goes up to 36. I believe the median is around 21.
Universities educate those with scores of 20 - 36 and everything in between and even some below 20.
Students should pick the universities which fit their academic achievement levels and their aspirations.
This isn't like pro sports where only a few make it big and the rest look to other non-athletic fields for their life work.
One can shoot to be a CFO or a cubicle worker doing accounting. Plenty of jobs for the elite as well as for those who are simply 'good' at what they do.
Universities need to educate the next CFO and also those accountants who do the gritty work every day.
Actually, yes!
In truth the Tudor style is not so much a style as it is a type of construction. It's a timber frame structure with wattle and daub [[sticks and mud) infill, or sometimes brick infill. The exterior wood is sealed, giving it its black color, and the infill is plastered and painted white. The closest thing that Detroit has to tudor architecture are actually old factories, which are exposed concrete construction with brick infill. But the whole concept of tudor architecture here is nonsensical. https://goo.gl/maps/xRnZmvj3Hy32 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU0d8kpybVg
The bigger offense are the arts and crafts houses though. The arts and crafts movement was a response in England to the industrial revolution. It was aligned with socialism, and rejected industrialization and machine-made objects in favor of the traditional trades [[and politically, the trade unions). And then in Detroit we have union busting barons of the auto industry, the crowning glory of capitalism and industrialization, using mechanized construction methods to build mansions in exclusive neighborhoods. Everyone involved, from client to architect, either didn't know or didn't care about what the arts and crafts movement was actually about. There's more to architecture than decorating facades.
Sadly I think the same attitude applies to most of the United States's and Detroit's architecture [[if you can even call it architecture). In the 1950s and the 1960s we were making mostly unprincipled and shallow copies of the architecture from the 1920s and 1930s. We were copying Le Corbusier when Le Corbusier himself had already moved on to more comprehensive and nuanced approaches. The stuff you hear in architecture today about connectivity and clustering and the value of transportation and diversity and neighborhood and community were things that european architects were coming up with in the 50s and 60s.
There are bright spots in American architecture though. Frank Lloyd Wright, Sullivan, Richardson... All very original and critical thinkers who created true architecture that was relevant to the situations they were designing for. There are others as well.
What I'd like for architects to do is to think deep and hard about architecture [[they are architects afterall. Isn't that their job?) to develop coherent ideas about architecture that hold up under scrutiny. Instead we have architects who shallowly copy and mix without a thought, because it's faster and easier [[the architects get paid the same amount regardless of how hard they work) for them to "design" that way. Not only that but their lowest common denominator work is the most popular to the public and to the clients. So why risk alienating clients and the public just for the ability to work harder without getting paid more? I understand the dynamic but something has to budge if we want good architecture. At the very least we can acknowledge that what we've been getting has been bad.
Good point. The only argument I have is that the DIA is a significant source of inspiration and culture where a professional sports stadium not quite so much.
Again I commend the gift of $, just not wild about the "I want it right here where all the Red Wing fans will be able to see it". If he really gave a damn about how things looked he would have done something about the Fine Arts building facade he owns right around the corner from his HQ by now.
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I like both posts...