Once again I'm not from Detroit but was always an admirer of Frank Murphy as a US Supreme Court Justice. He was one of few who voted against the internment of Japanese Citizens during WWII. I just wonder where he ranks among Detroit Mayors.
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Once again I'm not from Detroit but was always an admirer of Frank Murphy as a US Supreme Court Justice. He was one of few who voted against the internment of Japanese Citizens during WWII. I just wonder where he ranks among Detroit Mayors.
Best would be Hazen Pingree. Murphy was a good guy too.
Worst might be Richard Reading, elected in 1937.
Frank Murphy was definitely one of the best, although his reign was too short [[I think 3 years). Al Cobo was one of the worst and his reign was too long. Obviously we don't need to mention Kwame in this discussion...that's a given.
Kwame essentially did what Reading did for almost 4 times as long.
A book that was published by a history prof outside of Detroit about 10 years ago put Pingee as the fourth best mayor in American history since 1820 [[!) The placement was the result of recommendations from other academic experts.
The book is titled "The American Mayor," and its editor is Melvin Holli, who is Pingree's biographer.
Check it out:
http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/h/holli-mayor.html
If I remember right, Cobo loved seeing the streetcars disappear under his watch, and poured money into building expressways, which residents called "Cobo canals." And, just seven months after he killed the Woodward car, he died of a heart attack. Nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by 65memories
Jeffries Jr. could have been a good mayor. He may have been the best-educated mayor Detroit ever had, but he wasn't a great leader. The 1943 riot killed his political career, and he was dead seven years later.
Now, his father, the great Edward Jeffries Sr. was probably the greatest judge ever in Detroit!
I've never heard anyone call the xways cobo canals 'cept you.
Cobo was a money guy loaned to the city from Burroughs. He was only mayor for 7 yrs. The longest serving mayor, CAY, deserves a seperate category. Beyond bad, beyond good ...bood,or gad or just the old hmfic
one of the bet has to be John Lodge
I heard it from an old-timer and I just love repeating it. Were you there in the 1950s?Quote:
Originally Posted by gnome
Yeah, Al Cobo's great achievements in business for himself were running a few candy stores. Then he worked as a bean counter. He may have understood many things, but never seemed to understand what we have come to call "urban design." Seriously. Cobo made Orville Hubbard look like Jane Jacobs.
what was the mayor like who immediately preceded Young? What happened positive/negative during his tenure..
My personal thinking is that Coleman Young was the worst. Nothing much seemed to go right in Detroit during his time in office. He seemed to cover up for a lack of competence by inflammatory rhetoric. He created enemies in city council, the county, neighboring counties, at the state level, the federal level, etc. We just watched Detroit continue to deteriorate without any noticeable concern on his part.
In some ways I did admire him, but not as a leader with a vision and the skill to accomplish parts of the vision. Kwame at least seemed to be able to get along well with suburban leaders and state and federal government. It was sad to see his demise by his own doing. But Young never seemed to show any political skill other than getting himself re-elected.
That's the consensus of a younger cohort. The oldsters remember STRESS and how FINALLY a mayor reformed the police. Young would have been a great two-term mayor, if he'd decided to just ... let go.Quote:
Originally Posted by kryptonite
That would be Roman S. Gribbs... who's still alive. The major thing of his 1973-77 tenure... was the announcement and building of the Renaissance Center. By the time it opened, Young was in office to cut the ribbon with Henry Ford II.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypestyles
Gribbs later became a State Court of Appeals judge, and is currently retired in a Detroit suburb at the age of 85.
I was in front of a panel that included Roman Gribbs in a Case Evaluation in Oakland County two years ago [[which is something a retired attorney can do for a few bucks). Couldn't believe it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
My vote for worst, at least in the modern era: Louis Miriani, who succeeded Cobo after Cobo died in office.
Not only was Miriani heavy-handed and went against the people's wishes [[especially in his push to tear down Old City Hall: Only 21% of Detroiters wanted it razed, according to a poll at the time), he also was a crook. No text messages, but the IRS caught up to him anyway. He went to prison.
Bowles and Reading were probably the worst, besides Kilpatrick. Miriani was slightly below average as a mayor... we don't understand his [[and Cobo's) view of "progress" these days, but building freeways and razing obsolete buildings were considered "looking to the future" in the '50s. The crooked stuff for Miriani came later, when he was back to being a council member. Still, a drop in the bucket compared to what Kilpatrick did. I'd rate Murphy and Pingree the best. Maybury was above average, as were James Couzens and John W. Smith. And I think Jerry Cavanagh gets a bad rap... he was way above average but was swept aside with the tide, post-1967.
Coleman Young and Kwame are a tie as worst. Coleman started a lot of the bloated city departments with do nothing fat asses. Ok, I know a lot of politicians do this. But the tenure of these bastards did a ton of damage to Detroit. I credit Archer with at least improving our image a little. Archer was savvy enough to avoid a lot of controversy, had a Mr Clean image. I don't recall much accomplisment by him though. I remember Roman Gribbs a little. He was a straight forward guy. Again, don't remember much there. As for the others before my time, just don't know except what I read.
Where does Jerry Cavanaugh fit into the list? I know he forced through the city income tax in the wake of Con Con and was mayor during the riots, but overall what do you think? I've always felt a little sorry for the guy, a decent mayor with a sad city history.
Gribbs was mayor from 70-74 and my dad's tennis partner from 80-92. I don't think he had much of an impact, except for setting the stage for CAY's reign of blame [[everything bad was caused by those people north of 8 mile!)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
Archer is the best mayor in MY memory, which essentially stretches from Roman to now
You're right... that's what happens when you depend on your memory :[[... but CAY was mayor for 20 years [[74-94). But the RenCen was announced under Gribbs tenure...Quote:
Originally Posted by rb336
Yeah, I mentioned him in a earlier post. Miriani was a racist too. As crooked as any Mayor we've had. But Kwame was the worst by far.
As I remember there were rumors of a booze problem and he was cozy with some undesirables. He died before he could defend those rumors.Quote:
Originally Posted by douglasm
Fixed to reflect the view from this side of 8 Mile.Quote:
Originally Posted by rb336
Um...no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Detroitnerd
Coleman Young's so-called "reform" meant criminals could now get away with murder - literally. He "fixed" STRESS by rendering the police department worthless and impotent. [[And the corruption which followed within the department under Young's tenure is legendary).
Young's term was the turning point beween the days when Detroit was actually a good livable city and when it became what it is today.
Agreed. And the difference between Archer and Young was that Archer wasn't a racist who went around blaming everything wrong with the world on the white man.Quote:
Originally Posted by rb336
Thanks gnome, you're OK too.Quote:
Originally Posted by gnome
I absolutely agree with the above, Young's tenure destroyed the city.Quote:
Originally Posted by EMG
Best
Hazen Pingree
Worst
Dave Bing
STRESS was started on Gribbs' watch, wasn't it? I'd say that's a pretty significant occurrence, although I don't know how much he personally had to do with its implementation.Quote:
Originally Posted by rb336
I am no fan of CAY, but that's a broad brush. The city started imploding years before he came along, though in earlier years it was hard for most folks to see.Quote:
Originally Posted by softailrider
But he did squat for the cake that was already baking except to put the icing on it.
Isn't John Lodge currently[[for the last 30-plus years) standing in as a member of the band, "The Moody Blues?":DQuote:
Originally Posted by Johnlodge
Let me guess... Ken Cockrel Jr. was your 2nd worst....;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnemecek
Gistok, I see a pattern here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
On a side note, I feel Detroit's First,[[and only Polish Mayor) has gotten screwed!!!
Here lies the racist tendencies of Detroiter's[[both black and white)!
It's not a case of black and white, they seem to hate Polish folks!
Gistok knows me well.
Fnemecek.... as far as Bing goes.... I'll grant you that it's hard to find a "lower key" politician than him. He hasn't exactly exuded a lot of enthusiasm as KK used to. But I think it's too early to write the obituary just yet. He said he was going to be a 1 term mayor... and by all appearances, that's the way it seems.
What he's doing behind the scenes is hard to determine... and that can be frustrating. Although that would mean wait-and-see... I'll grant you that the city can't afford to wait and see.
I disagree. Something had to be done with a police force that was 95% white and racist. How do you think the riots of 67 got started?. Whites were leaving the city before Young got in office. A young black person couldn't even walk to the store without being intimidated by the "Big Four" and STRESS. " Where you goin Boy" ? I'm not blaming everything bad that happened to Detroit on Young. Detroit was starting to decline when Jerome Cavanagh was Mayor.Quote:
Originally Posted by EMG
I believe TIME ran a piece The Decline of Detroit, in 1961.
I'll agree that the problems started way before Young was elected for his first term. However, there's no denying that by the end of his run we had lost almost the entire middle class tax base.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikefmich
Perhaps Cobo & Miriani? After the war years, the automakers started building a ton of new auto plants in s.e. Michigan....at least 20 or more. Not one of them were built in Detroit. Couple that with the freeway construction that cut a wide swath thru PV, and the redlining of blacks vis a vis the housing/mortgage industry, IMHO the death rattle started in the early 1950's....but few if any realized it at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid
While the riots accelerated the white flight to the burbs, it was well under way in the mid to late1950's when Oakland & Macomb started sprouting housing developments like weeds.
I thought Cavanaugh wasn't a bad mayor....perhaps his biggest mistake was a half-hearted attempt at fixing the budget with the income tax. Well meant, but it wasn't the fix he hoped for. I was coming of age in that era, and I full well remember many resident taxpayers who were friends, relatives, fellow church goers say screw this noise, I'm outta here.
He also embraced the emerging civil rights movement, which I thought was ballsy on his part. Others wouldn't have touched that with a ten foot pole in that era.
Pretty personable guy, I met him a couple of times when my dad was on the New Detroit Committee for a couple of years after the riots. I think he gave it his best shot.
Seriously by the time he arrived in office in the early 60's, I don't think anyone could've slowed down what was the chugging locomotive that was the fall of Detroit.
Charles Bowles was aTERRIBLE Detroit Mayor! His support with the KKK and other political corruption made Detroiters very upset that recall notice has happen.
So that's all his fault that the businesses left? I would think it was a combination of things.Quote:
Originally Posted by softailrider
CAY was a vulgar buffoon without any people skills and to my knowledge few political skills. Do people recall that after he made numerous insults about Ronald Reagan that Detroit's funding for a Woodward subway line just disappeared? The People Mover was still built but no subway. I never cared for Reagan myself, but as mayor of a large city in the days that large cities received substantially more federal funding you don't bite the hand that feeds you. CAY never learned to work with other elected officials for the good of the city, hew was too busy insulting them.
From what I can recall of Kilpatrick, he seemed to have substantial skills as far as working with other officials at the state and county level, and his mother assured him good access to some federal politicians. Kilpatrick in my opinion had great potential but god did he blow it.
An easy choice - Coleman Young was by far the worse mayor. Young's departures from reality are far too numerous to list. "Nero" Young fiddled while the city fell down around his ears and served as the role model for the baffoons who followed him into office. While it may be said that the city was set to implode before his time, he did little of note to prevent - and even hastened the city's crash.
I never had the impression that Young even realized Detroit was turning into crap. His ego was so huge that he seemed to think he was doing a fine job and all of Detroit's problems were caused by suburbanites.
I lived in Detroit most of the time he was mayor, I never noticed much of anything improving.
And what a racist, he never improved race relations in the least, I guess because he didn't want to.
I often wonder if anyone had the guts to tell Young that if he ran the middle class off that his tax base would go with them? If he was told, was he too stupid and egotistical to believe them?
That is a minority view, and those who cling to it are usually old, racist police. Perhaps you should read "The Algiers Motel Incident," and consider if you would like to be a black person with Detroit police such as those covered in the book?Quote:
Originally Posted by EMG
Yeah, that's me, if it will make you happy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Detroitnerd
We've had this out before, Ray, and I understand your sensitivity to the issue, but I think it's pretty clear that when I say defenders of STRESS are usually old, racist police, it does not mean that all old police are racist, yes? You've never been anything but decent on this board, and your own words speak to a character that is far removed from that sort of ugliness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray1936
My dad was a cop, and joined the force out of a genuine desire to help people, so I know it ain't all Buford T. Justice out there. :o
I assume that by "the middle class" you mean "the white middle class," since as far as I know there wasn't a significant exodus of black middle-class Detroiters during Young's tenure.Quote:
Originally Posted by 5thSFGP
What did Coleman Young have to gain, from a political perspective, by reaching out to a group that overwhelmingly voted against him, was unlikely to be won over by him in the future, and had been steadily leaving the city for decades anyway? Maybe it would have worked to the benefit of the city for him to do so, but that isn't how politicians operate.
I think to use the term "white middle class" there tends to be a rather broad stroke. The reality is that the majority of those who could afford to look elsewhere - did, and still do. What Coleman had to gain by reaching out to all groups was a continuation of a potential tax base that financed the services of the city - in all areas, which in turn would have held opportunities in education, employment, etc., that would have enabled the city to prosper. Now I realize that that concept may not have been politically correct then, but it's easy to see what the results of his administration have been and continue to be. The sad part is that he was elected and re-elected based on some pretty superficial factors - race for example, not accomplishments. Sadly, it does not appear to have changed much . . . .
I'm not sure what any of that has to do with my post. You asked whether Young was too "stupid and egotistical" to recognize the implications of his actions. I'm suggesting that those actions may have worked to his political benefit, regardless of their overall impact on the city, and may have been motivated more by his pragmatic desire to further his political career than by stupidity or egotism. Of course, I'm just speculating; I have no idea what Young's actual motivations were for making the choices he made about how to run the city and how to talk to the press. I'm just pointing out one plausible explanation.Quote:
Originally Posted by 5thSFGP
As for whether Young was a good or a bad mayor, well, I don't have a strong opinion about that. Maybe I'm the only person in this town who doesn't. I'm too young to personally remember much of his time in office, and I think the city probably would have gone to shit between the early 70s and the early 90s no matter who was mayor. He did some good things, he did some bad things, and I think both his admirers and detractors tend to overstate his impact because he was such a polarizing figure.
As far as "people live where they can afford to live, then as now," you really can't have that discussion without bringing race into it, and you don't seem willing to do that. I guess I should leave it at that.
Yes. Perhaps you should . . . .
By all accounts I have seen, Hazen Pingree was best.
I think CAY was the worst of my life [[KK didn't last long enough), but I have to defend him a bit. He certainly had people skills, but he liked pushing people's buttons [[anyone else remember "President Pruneface") and maybe he would have had better relationships if he could have suppressed that a bit more. I think he thought it played well with his supporters and he was probably right. Maybe he can be faulted for that--he kept playing to his base even though it probably wasn't the best strategy for the city.
I think he viewed becoming mayor [[and the perks that came with it) as being a goal and a symbolic accomplishment in itself, and didn't devote a lot of effort to actually running the city. I also don't think there is any reason to think he had the skills to do it. In any case he had clearly lost interest in doing anything constructive by the end of his second term.
All this might have just made him sort of a poor mayor, rather than the worst, except that he was in office for so long during a rather challenging time. James Buchanan may not have been intrinsically a much worse president than Millard Fillmore, but he was in office in more difficult circumstances, so he gets to be the worst, at least for the moment.
The fact remains that when Young took office the city was very livable .At the end of his tenure, vast areas of the city had become wastelands. I do not believe that this was his fault competely, I do believe he exacerbated the situation markedly.