Channel 4 also has a fly-through [[or drive-through) animation of the rendering at 1:18.
http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/d...s-own/28193788
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Channel 4 also has a fly-through [[or drive-through) animation of the rendering at 1:18.
http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/d...s-own/28193788
MUCH more fun to use conjecture, rumor, hearsay and red herrings during a discussion
than actually look at a diagram of a proposed project :p
It's not that this project is a colossal expansion of the freeway system. It's that:
1) It continues the wrong-headed, outdated mindset that every possible "destination" needs its own freeway ramp. Because God forbid people have to use surface streets or walk a whole block.
2) It's an expansion of the roadway network at a time when Vehicle Miles Traveled is *decreasing*.
3) Billionaires in Detroit will get whatever they want, no matter how dumb, and no matter what the people need. Fascism at its finest.
1) So fixing a dangerous bottleneck isn't desirable?
2) Downtown Detroit has seen much more vehicle traffic than what it is getting 5 years ago. Vehicle traffic in this spot has increased greatly. I don't know where you're getting your statistics from.
3) So because he's "The Man" and he's willing to fix an infrastructure problem for us, we shouldn't do it? This reason isn't even valid. Is it a good thing to fix this bottleneck? If so, then who the f*ck cares if a billionaire is willing to pay for it.
Yeah, I've decided I am moving to another city because Dan Gilbert decided to alleviate a huge traffic bottleneck with his own money. I'd rather live in a city that already has its stuff together and is already perfect. What was I thinking, living in this dumb, backwards city?
[Sarcasm]But widening this exit ramp will decrease walkability for anyone wanting to go from the service drive down to I-375. Now when people want to walk directly onto I-375 they'll have to find a safer way to get there.[/sarcasm]
People are still excited about the possibilities for I-375. This exit is just such an issue that it can't wait.
Clearly. The biggest problems Detroit has always had are that there aren't enough roads, not enough parking, and you can't push 100 mph driving through downtown. Isn't it obvious that nobody can get to the Greektown Casino at present? Better let Dan Gilbert build whatever public infrastructure he sees fit...the better to let people shower cash upon him unabated. If a couple pedestrians get run down, fuck'em. If it creates traffic jams for non-Greektown patrons, well screw those fools. Hell, build the God damned off-ramp so it goes directly into the Greektown Casino garage, and put a toll booth on it. It'll improve the economy or something.
But if you want so much as to plant a tree on your tree lawn, MDOT will force you to remove such a "dangerous obstacle". It's pretty clear who Detroit and Michigan work for, and it certainly isn't any of you schmucks.
Who knew 30 feet of extra pavement was such a sensitive issue.
Also, I'm not sure if you've driven into a tree before, but typically cars don't go very far when a tree is place in front them.
One again, you're ranting more about WHO is funding it, rather than whether it's a good idea or not.
Explain to me how this project will cause more danger to pedestrians? Have you looks at a map and what they're proposing to do?
Also, there are not going to be toll booths, as much as anti-freeway people want to wish them into existence.
There are actual [[Detroiters) people that live in that neighborhood and use that ramp daily for commutes. With the Lion's and Tiger's and the Casino, [[oh my), it turns into one huge PITA cluster, especially on the weekends. There have been multiple car pile-ups and injuries regularly. But you've been there, done that, had your vehicle run into, and knew all that, before you went into your hang Gilbert and automobile owners by the testicles, where's my free choo-choo tirade. Think about this, though, if Gilbert makes no profits, and pays no taxes, how is the Santa Gummint going to be able to afford to bring you a nice shiny choo-choo for Christmas?
It's a terrible idea. I thought I made that pretty clear. Show me the traffic study that justifies this. Oh, the existing ramp handles a whole 1600 cars an hour? For how many hours a day--one? And explain to me why it's a good idea to build freeway off-ramps to "preferred" private businesses? Wasn't the whole idea of the casinos to generate "vibrancy" downtown?
Moving Cars does not create a vibrant city. Funnelling cars directly to Gilbert's Pleasure Palace even less so. But maybe in the next century, Detroit will get its head out of its collective ass, after learning the first 5000 years worth of city-building principles. That is, if it's not too late.
Further, there is an extremely dangerous precedent here. Dan Gilbert is accountable to NO ONE. So how does he unilaterally get to decide public policy and prioritize public infrastructure projects? Do you not see how this idea can bite Detroit in the ass in the future? Or have we now elevated Dan Gilbert to Ilitch status, where we let him do whatever he wants because he's a billionaire who owns downtown real estate?
Nobody told Detroit to build a giant drive-in-drive-out Entertainment Shopping Mall at the same God damned intersection.
I could give a shit if Dan Gilbert makes Dollar One. He has an army of accountants that make sure he pays as little as possible in taxes, and he's certainly not the only person who lives in Detroit.
This is just more of the same old Good Ole Boy Network, picking Winners and Losers in the continued hoodwinking of Detroit.
What happens when he wants to pay for something that you don't like? Does he still get to do it just because he put his own money into it? He didn't have to ask for your input when it was something that he liked, so why does he have to ask your input when he wants to pay for something you don't like? That is why this is a bad idea. Michigan is not this desperate. If it is this desperate then it needs to re-evaluate some of its other priorities.
its an exit ramp that anyone who uses it can recognize as being undersized to handle the amount of traffic there. This isn't matty maroun rerouting truck traffic through a neighborhood, it's an off ramp into a 99% business and entertainment area.
It's a stop gap measure until there is a 375 master plan.
M-DOT does things all the time without asking me. Sometimes I like those decisions. Sometimes I don't. Sometimes they're funded with state money. Sometimes they're funded with federal money. Sometimes they're funded by the Canadian government.
Your objection is not valid, because I am never asked before ANY road project, regardless of funding.
M-DOT, which is put in place by our elected officials is in charge of those decisions. If we don't like this off ramp expansion, we can complain to M-DOT and our elected officials. But since it's a good and free thing, I'm not going to complain.
I have complained to M-DOT before about road projects. Sometimes I've got the response I wanted, and other times I got my opinion acknowledged, but they went against it.
Stop worrying about the WHO and worry about the WHAT.
Well, Dan Gilbert is a billionaire, so that means he's smarter than me and always knows what's best for me, so I'll just shut up. We wouldn't want people to start thinking that free enterprise has a downside, and that government protection of public interest is necessary. Because *GASP* that could blow a gaping hole in someone's irrational ideology.
Dan Gilbert tore down a historic building in downtown Cleveland because he "needed" the land to build a new parking garage. Then he proposed this monstrosity for the site of the building he razed. Should the City of Cleveland had allowed him to proceed? I mean, it's Dan's money, right?
http://www.cleveland.com/business/in...eland_own.html
Be careful who you choose as your saints.
Dan Gilbert's a billionaire, so we shouldn't add two lanes onto an freeway exit ramp!
I want to paint Dan Gilbert as arrogant, so we shouldn't add two lanes onto an freeway exit ramp!
I'm going to suggest that there's something wrong with capitalism, so we shouldn't add two lanes onto an freeway exit ramp!
Dan Gilbert tore down a historic [[thanks for not saying "an historic", that drives me nuts) building 400 miles from here, so we shouldn't add two lanes onto an freeway exit ramp!
Dan Gilbert made a casino in Ohio, so we shouldn't add two lanes onto an freeway exit ramp!
Last I checked, MDOT was a public agency. They're responsible to the general public--not to serve the needs of well-heeled individuals. There's nothing "capitalist" about appropriating public infrastructure for the profit of private individuals and companies--that, my friend, is fascism.
So if this new off-ramp is so necessary, where are the traffic studies? Where is the public vetting process? I-375, after all, is a federal highway. And will there be a traffic signal at the end of the off-ramp, or are we just going to let cars fly through downtown and mow down the pedestrians Detroit claims to want?
I used the example of Gilbert's proposed "sculpture" in Cleveland to illustrate how idiotic it is to hand the keys to the wealthy and entitled carte blanche. NO more, no less. And last I checked, Cleveland is less than 175 miles from Detroit. So you might want to invest in a good set of maps, 48307.
There are already three additional exit lanes from 375 to Greektown. Larned and Jefferson. However, no one ever uses those.