The age of reason has never been a part of Detroit's psyche

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Originally Posted by mwilbert

TBut I have to agree about the electric cars; electricity storage turns out to be a much harder problem than burning gasoline. Of course, people have been working on improving internal combustion engines pretty continuously for over 100 years. Until recent years, nothing like that much effort was put into batteries or other electrical storage devices, so I'm still hoping someone will come up with something that is effective.

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When I was working in R&D for the Army, the logistics of recharging batteries for the proliferation of all of the night vision goggles, navigation devices, thermal sights, etc was overwhelming. The military was feverishly working on battery technology. I would imagine that the laptop computer, iPad, Kindle, iPod, and cell phone industries are spending a lot of money on battery technology as well.

Go by a golf course and see how many golf carts are hooked up to the grid. You don't think they might be working on battery technology?

The auto companies didn't abandon battery cars and go to internal combustion because they were in love with the oil companies, they did it because ICE improvements seemed more achievable than battery improvements over the near time frame.

If we truly made a breakthrough in batteries, electric cars would be very simple, durable, and inexpensive.

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Originally Posted by judymcfarlane

The invention of the electric car is not new. It's conception was killed by an industry so tied to oil that any thought or ideas or inventions which relied on alternative methods for transportation were firmly destroyed.

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Electric cars went away because the energy density of gasoline is orders of magnitude greater than the most efficient battery man can produce [[which are exotic and expensive gold-foil mega-capacitors used in solar endurance racers.) Batteries also, historically, don't do well in extreme, or even semi-extreme climates. This is one of the reasons why the EV1 was piloted in LA.

Now that lithium-polymer batteries are coming down in price, and gas is still relatively expensive, you'll see more electric cars available. Until recently, the technology, nor demand, just hasn't been there.

Okay, but what has the price of gas cost us considering what we have spent for protecting oil interests for the past, just the past 10 decades?

When I was in my 20's, living in Los Angeles, there was a movement for rapid transit, but it was voted down when it reached voters. Fifty years ago rapid trasit was voted down because it would cost too much, people were told. So L.A. built more and more roads, developers reached further and further out, people commuted more miles, more gas used and now, half a century later L.A. is, I've been told, doing what should have been accomplished half a century ago. Same situation in most of the nation. Give me the math, please. And while doing so, tell me which groups led the fight against mass transportation which would have saved, not just fuel, but also landcapes which were turned into strip malls and concrete.

Judy, you are really out of your depth here. Stop trying to preach to us, we know this shit better than you do.

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Originally Posted by lilpup

Judy, you are really out of your depth here. Stop trying to preach to us, we know this shit better than you do.

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Oh stop it.

It's quite a relief to get a perspective of things from someone outside Michigan.

Some of us don't live under a rock, are VERY familiar with "outside" perspectives, and are not willing to tolerate being scapegoated for others' irresponsible behavior.

Michigan certainly isn't the state with 56,000+ sq ft mansions!

I don't live in Calif. I detested it. If I felt comfortable living in cities, I would choose Detroit over most cities in the entire nation. I also love Michigan with all my heart. But, I cannot possibly live on social security with any comfort or dignity in Michigan or any states which tax everything one needs just to survive. I lived for 25 years in Montana in a "town" of 100 people, no one of wealth, most were low income, but all living decently because in Montana, and now in Oregon where I found my place of retirement, there are no sales taxes, utilities are low and both states have excellent family and senior housing for low income people plus well run services and life is not frantic or frightening. But, were I to give map directions to the young, I'd point them to Detroit. I really would. I believe your city is going to shine.

lovelacedevelopment.com/properties/gphousing.phpCached

hit on properties. The low income properties where I live, families paying as little as $60.00 a month. Seniors, where I live at Pelican's Perch, paying no more than 1/3 our SS income. No sales taxes on anything we purchase. Low cost co op utilities. And guess what. Of the 24 units in Pelican's Perch, Brookings Oregon, 1/4 of the residents are from Michigan. I'm from Grosse Pointe, but left at age 20. The woman in the next apartment is from Lavonia. One of the gentlemen on the 2nd floor grew up in South Detroit and still another is from Grand Rapids. But, forget the aged who moved to make ends meet. My county has 13% unemployment, down from 15% [[think some simply walked into the ocean until the waves took them out to sea - thus aren't counted), but even the poor can live in decent housing paying as little as $60.00 a month with full health benefits, dental insurance, cash assistance and food stamps and no one here is grabbing purses to survive. They don't have to.

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Originally Posted by judymcfarlane

One of the gentlemen on the 2nd floor grew up in South Detroit and still another is from Grand Rapids.

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Woah.."South Detroit"? You mean the place Journey sang about is real??