Haha, I am sure GPP negotiated with Detroit because this was all built legally on their own land and they just wanted be super nice to Detroit :)
Haha, I am sure GPP negotiated with Detroit because this was all built legally on their own land and they just wanted be super nice to Detroit :)
Great job, Duggan.
Now for the real discussion - how stupid are roundabouts, and are we going to have two here now? Can we pass an ordinance against roundabouts?
1953
and two paragraphs later in that article GPP says:the roundabout/cul-du-sac at wayburn is staying and Detroit is building another roundabout at the other end of the really short block. does it make a lot of sense from a traffic perspective to have TWO roundabouts in such close proximity if the area is to "reopened" to traffic? No. of course not. So what is going on here is completely about the optics. People are going to drive around the area to avoid the circles.Quote:
The traffic roundabout installed last month by Grosse Pointe Park, turning Kercheval into a cul-de-sac, will stay.... the City of Detroit will install its own landscaped traffic roundabout at Kercheval and Alter
P.s. apparently the final plan will involve YET ANOTHER traffic circle at nottingham. So, yeah, Kercheval is not blocked off at all, it's just going to be a nightmare to go through...and it will be closed semi regularly for various events and markets.
Did we discuss somewhere in this thread why Kercheval isn't under county control?
1953
havent seen the actual agreement but was just speaking with someone who should have good info and was told [[ALLEGEDLY) part of the deal is the tear down of the Deck bar & party story buildings and finally moving the bus turnout that has been stalled since 06. If true, that means Duggan just threw the DHD under the bus...
More details on the last part? Very curious. I was also being partially sarcastic with my remarks because I think the issue was more of a how things were gone about than actual permission issue. The final outcome presented in those articles, in my opinion, is ideal and I am excited that both sides were mature enough and willing to sit down and make this work.
re:\/\/\/\/\/ 48307: Hamlin and Livernois in Rochester Hills has a roundabout and it works EXACTLY as you described. It has become my preferred route from my parents to Rochester just due to not having to wait 5 minutes like everywhere else.
I agree about Duggan.
However, roundabouts are awesome, I love them. They're no appropriate all the time, but there are many scenarios where they are.
Roundabouts in proper locations allow traffic to flow more efficiently, cause less wasted fuel, have shorter times to traverse intersections, and even work just fine when the power goes out.
I think your assumption that people won't drive through Kercheval just because of the roundabout is, well, just that, and moreover, I don't agree that a roundabout or even two of them is at all tantamount to closing the street [[particularly by way of putting buildings in the middle of it). Bottom line: Kercheval, at least on normal days, is open to thru traffic, and won't have any blockages.
It would be really nice to see some development at the empty corners of Alter and Kercheval. There have been a handful of decent looking new commercial buildings on Mack Ave. on the far east side, and it would be nice to see that duplicated here to smooth out the transition.
Any word on where exactly the permanent marketplace will be? I assume on one of the parking lots fronting Kercheval, but which one?
its the same assumption that a roundabout is a "blockade". If one roundabout with temporary/seasonal barns erected on the island is a "blockade", what do we call two roundabouts on the same block with landscaped islands instead of barns?
the old Arts party store... instead of parking lot and thruway for roundabout. allegedly...Quote:
Any word on where exactly the permanent marketplace will be? I assume on one of the parking lots fronting Kercheval, but which one?
I don't deny that roundabouts work for car traffic. I just don't think they work well for cities.
1953
Can you show some quotes/links where people stated that the roundabout was a blockade. From everything I've read, people seem to think that the building plopped down in the middle of the street was a blockade, not the roundabout.
I thought the barn was ridiculous in planning and the message it sent. I have no issues with the roundabouts as a traffic calming measure for an area the city wants to make more walkable.
I had assumed that wasn't the case or it would be opened back up and have essentially back to back roundabouts. If it stays closed off then that is just assinine and a pretty poor agreement between the two cities.
If the GP roundabout remains closed off it certainly is no cause to celebrate and would make me wonder if this was the plan in the first place: Close off the road to cars, plop a stupid barn on it then look like a hero when you agree to tear down the stupid barn [[all the while having the road closed down to through traffic).
London would like a word...
Attachment 24210
per the Detnews and Freep... this is exactly what is happening.
Not to keep flogging this dead horse, but what keeps getting repeated and not heard is the barns were NEVER meant to be permanent. they were coming out already. they're on pallets and not attached to the slab. The roundabout isn't coming out ....so yes, GP is really not changing much of anything about the plan other than re-jiggering the roundabout a bit and re-aligning the "plaza"/market/event space to assuage some manufactured outrage over aesthetics. Not only are they not changing anything, but they got Duggan to agree to address a ton of blight and install another roundabout spitting distance from the offending one.Quote:
If the GP roundabout remains closed off it certainly is no cause to celebrate and would make me wonder if this was the plan in the first place: Close off the road to cars, plop a stupid barn on it then look like a hero when you agree to tear down the stupid barn [[all the while having the road closed down to through traffic).
But at least tabloids and the activists can claim they "tore down" a "wall".
I don't understand what you all are saying. First off, south? Going towards Jefferson? The flow of Kercheval is east-west, so I am not sure why this closes Kercheval.
Roundabouts are , just as they sound, traffic circles that you go through. As opposed to cul-de-sacs, which reverse your direction.
I am not even sure the mayors know what's happening in this regard, at least as far as I can tell from their poorly written agreement: http://www.detroitmi.gov/Portals/0/d...0Agreement.pdf
The press release states: "reopen access to Kercheval at Alter Road." Of course, it doesn't say vehicular access, just access. Hmmmmm. Then the official agreement tends to suggest that one of the options [[nota bene: there are 'options') is just one way access from Detroit. How odd is that? But another option is 'a roundabout' with a fountain in the middle. To me, that means one roundabout with access flowing in all directions. That would be best.
Because it's what's there now. GPP isn't removing the wayburn roundabout. One can drive into GPP on Kerch from Detroit...which sort of undercuts the whole "blockading" of Detroit claim...generally when one wants to blockade something they don't leave the road open....but I digress...What is less convenient is exiting GPP. for that you need to go down Wayburn to the alley..or to another cross street.
RE: the agreement, Detroit agreeing to demo abandoned buildings and remedy blight from JEFFERSON TO MACK by November 2014? That is quite the promise. Basically prioritizing that stretch over every other area of Detroit starting today. When Detroit breaches that....then what?
that's because its not finished. You're right.. .should have said, "will be able to as planned" and per the agreement, by November 2014.
http://motorcitymuckraker.com/wp-con...3271972495.png
Alright, I gotcha. Well, I think some aspects of that plan are out the window now [[diverting traffic off the grid, for example), and I also think that the agreement referenced about is to meld with this plan, such that there is one roundabout, island, whatever, not two, and that it MIGHT be two way traffic, or might be one way, depending on the option that is implemented in the next three months.
I cheer for a single, all-ways roundabout with a lovely fountain. Let's go full London on this corner!
I'll be the roundabout
The words will make you out 'n' out
I spend the day your way
Call it morning driving thru the sound and in and out the valley
In and around the lake
Mountains come out of the sky and they stand there
Yeah, city government can only focus on one project at a time. Demoing structures in more-than-one area of the city at once is just some pie in the sky, Detroit-championing bullstuff. And anyone who believes that they might be able to do that needs to open their eyes to the reality of the situation. Duggan is just like Bing!!!!
Why can't they just f-ing put businesses on properties and leave the road well enough alone? This is a thoroughfare that connects two cities and needs to stay open for gosh sakes!