Jesus Christ we're actually arguing about this again. I mean I love classics as much as the next guy, but...
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Jesus Christ we're actually arguing about this again. I mean I love classics as much as the next guy, but...
That's not hard to fix.
Incorrect analogy. The Q Line is a piece of infrastructure. The analogy would be the road. Do you build the road for the bus to operate on? Do you build the tracks for a train to operate on?
This is an extremely short amount of time to actually judge the effectiveness of the project. That train line could be there for the next century. Many of the rail transit lines operating in the U.S. today were started in the 19th century.
Detroit actually does need that capacity if it wants to build density.
That is a management issue. It shouldn't take 30 minutes between trains.
You can't have population density without a way to move people efficiently. You can't have population density with the expectation that everybody will commute in their own car.
Rail isn't that expensive when fairly compared to any other mode of transit. It is the most resilient piece of transit infrastructure that has ever been invented.
THIS. It's so damn short that the odds of someone living on one end of the line and working at the other are very small. And don't get me started with the "but you can take it to the tigers game or to a museum" crap. A transit system is sustained by daily riders using it to commute, not the casual riders who took it once to the museum last summer.
it is an impossible fix as it's not grade separated and there is no state buy-in to allow it to be. It's never not going to be subject to the whims of Detroit drivers that seem to think flipping on the hazard lights confers immunity to traffic laws.
I'm fine with it begin a total bust as a actual transit option...but it doesn't even do the role of a Illitchtown/gilbertville parking shuttle because it's stuck in the same traffic everyone else is anytime there is an event or literately ANYTHING going on downtown.
the road was built for cars and buses... the trolley is an inefficient use of that infrastructure as currently built as we're running buses along the same route that travel faster, more frequently and aren't dependent on the lane they are in staying free of obstacles.Quote:
Incorrect analogy. The Q Line is a piece of infrastructure. The analogy would be the road. Do you build the road for the bus to operate on? Do you build the tracks for a train to operate on?
The q line will be lucky to run 20 years. I see no support for it's continued operations once the private money runs out. But ..sure, lots of rail lines are old. Funny how the qline ignored the century of learnings about how to build an efficient and workable solution and went with the trolley model.Quote:
This is an extremely short amount of time to actually judge the effectiveness of the project. That train line could be there for the next century. Many of the rail transit lines operating in the U.S. today were started in the 19th century.
look the whole thing just seems like a miss. but that's just me...someone that actually would like to use it but can't because I need to actually arrive at the place I'm trying to get to on time... or at least with an understanding about when I might arrive.
And right on cue... I'm looking out my window at the trolley stuck behind a double parked truck. repeatedly blowing that silly horn isn't going to get the guy to move his truck...can't the driver see the truck has his hazard lights on!?!?!
The speed of this system will never be good.
Rail that shares traffic lanes is the worst system type.
Besides the problem already mentioned; [[screwing up car traffic, being dangerous for bike riders, getting blocked by obstacles, etc) They also can never even attempt to run quickly for safety reasons.
Light rail uses steel wheels on steel tracks,... so they have limited traction. That and the fact that they weigh 43 TONS !, means they take MUCH more distance to stop than a car with it's rubber tires on asphalt.
Also,.. if some parked car were to open a door,.. or a driver of said parked car were walking around their car to get in,.. or a car was starting to pull out but stopped,... a passing automobile can simply steer around. A quick wiggle of the steering wheel and you don't even have to slow down. But with no ability to steer,.. and poor braking performance,.. the Q-Line must always be going slowly.
All problems that don't exist in elevated light rail. With the tracks all to themselves, the operator doesn't even have to look before stepping on the gas. In fact,.. most [[including our own People Mover) don't even have drivers. They automatically accelerate at the quickest rate that won't knock down riders, get exactly to the safest top speed,.. and later slow down at that same rate for the next station.
Here's what doesn't appeal to me:
The Q-Line people had a chance to construct it properly, and they didn't.
They could've took lessons from New Orleans and place it in the middle of the street. Instead they decide to place the stations on the curb, and caused a lot of problems.
They tried to "compromise" by putting some of the stations in the middle of the street, but failed to just keep it the whole thing there.
Now you have people that will just park behind there and make the entire thing ineffective. It failed in its planning. That's what happens in public-private partnerships: You forget about the public, and the private people only remain accountable to themselves.
It's not a rapid transit rail line. It's a streetcar. Streetcars are built on the street. Plenty of cities around the world have them and they work just fine.
That's actually not true. All of Detroit's radial avenues were designed to accommodate streetcars.
Meanwhile in Cincinnati it isn't going much better... ridership averages about 1500 per day
https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinna...ency-gets.html
They do... which is why detroit's failure to replicate that success is that much more depressing.
yes in an era where Grosse Pointe was considered a weekend get away destination and the trolleys were pulled by horses.Quote:
That's actually not true. All of Detroit's radial avenues were designed to accommodate streetcars.
They were talking about the high fare evasion on Toronto's streetcars on the radio today so I looked it up - it's 15%! I guess we Canadians really are honest [[or scared or dumb).
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...sion-1.5029072
Nope. It happened in the 1930s:
Ironically, the avenues are as wide as they are because the city was planning for a subway system.Quote:
By the early 1920s, city streets were becoming strangled with traffic as automobiles became prevalent and large numbers of workers became concentrated in skyscrapers and factories of unprecedented size. Although streetcars were in use, the necessity of rapid transit was becoming self-evident.
The Detroit Rapid Transit Commission was formed in 1922 to study this problem. After more than a year research, it unveiled its solution: the "Super-Highway System"--a comprehensive plan integrating both automobiles and light rail in the same rights-of-way. In a report dated April 10, 1924, the Commission called the System a "joint transit facility serving both rapid transit on rails and express motor traffic on rubber tires. ... Both services are essential to the welfare of the present communities and the future city. ... both [[are) essential to make the land accessible, useful and valuable."
http://corktownhistory.blogspot.com/...an-avenue.html
Subway system plan from 1915: http://www.dailydetroit.com/2016/05/...bway-proposal/
It is good to read about the proposed Detroit subway. Am I correct in
thinking that the first serious proposal for a Woodward Avenue subway
dates from about 1912? I have also heard that the Michigan's reprsentatives in Washington put pressure on the federal government to
build a subway in Detroit during the Depression but those from Illinois
had more clout so Chicago got the funding. That was a time when
federal funding to minimize the Depression was populat.
My late father talked fondly about Detroit’s streetcars. I remember him saying, “You could go anywhere in the city for a nickel.”
it was never designed to be one...but it was sold as one.
here's just one example of many from the way back machine circa 2010...
cue sad trombone....Quote:
Can Motor City combat its economic ills by becoming Rail City?
Along Detroit's Woodward Avenue, a downtown stretch that seems permanently stuck in the "emerging" phase of business development, community leaders are hoping a new light rail system will help spark a renaissance. The city plans to break ground this year on stage one of a $420 million project: the first modern, mass-transit initiative in a city long synonymous with automobiles.
"Transit in Detroit has kind of been a joke," says Matt Cullen, CEO of M1 Rail, a private consortium heading the development effort. "We've been a victim of balkanized politics and other efforts. But now we have a plan in place. We'll get it done, and we feel it will have a huge impact on this region.
The planned 3.4-mile first stretch of light rail service would encompass some of Detroit's best-known entertainment districts, including Comerica Park, home of baseball's Tigers, and Ford Field, where the Lions play football. The route winds past the Fox Theater district and extends into Detroit's New Center area, the center of gravity for many local hospitals and medical facilities, as well as much of the Wayne State University campus.
"With this light rail system we will have a much greater concentration of business investment possibilities," says Rip Rapson, CEO of the Kresge Foundation, which awards grants to nonprofit organizations in a variety of fields. The foundation has committed $35 million to the M1 Rail project.
Toronto's transit police don't mess around. My first visit to the city I boarded a street car without realizing there was no way to pay once onboard at the time. The transit cops who requested a ticket were quite belligerent but took putty on the poor American tourist. In subsequent visits I've seen them forcibly remove riders without tickets. I wouldn't want to run a fowl of them again!
On the subject of Toronto, their streetcars are side running but move right along through very busy streets. I love using them whenever I visit. Detroit could learn a lot from Toronto on how to make the most of the Q Line.