View Full Version : Michigan, worst place to do business!
CapitalistPig
May-12-09, 11:44 AM
http://www.chiefexecutive.net/ME2/Audiences/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=&type=Publishing&mod=Publications%3A%3AArticle&mid=8F3A7027421841978F18BE895F87F791&tier=4&id=D8BB1C4F12AE46EF9B7647E09E3253A6&AudID=F242408EE36A4B18AABCEB1289960A07
Why doesn't the state of Michigan do the exact opposite of what this article says we are doing wrong?
Why don't we follow the lead of successful states? Like Texas and Florida. (States that have no state income taxes.)
The answer is quite clear. We have politicians running, or more appropriately ruining our state, who pander to the labor unions for votes, through government hand outs and "benefits" for their own political power grab. (Monica AND John Conyers perfect examples.)
Why are states that are more reflective of capitalism, successful, and states that are more reflective of socialism, failing?
The answer is simple: capitalism works, socialism fails every time!
Time to WAKE UP!!
Flanders
May-12-09, 12:33 PM
Capitalistpig and all of age 28.
Forgive me if I am not impressed
,
Florida is successful??
LOL
http://www.businessfacilities.com/bf_08_12_state_of_the_year.php
Forbes reached a similar conclusion
DetroitDad
May-12-09, 02:25 PM
Jesus Christ, they point a problem to us and instead of being outraged that this is a problem, we try to discredit the article.
CapitalistPig
May-12-09, 03:09 PM
http://www.mlive.com/annarbornews/business/index.ssf/2008/12/kdow_deal_canceled_ann_arbor_w.html
Oh slimshaddy you should stick to rapping, cuz your ignorance is showing. K-dow has been canceled. Discrediting your little Business Facilities article. Read the above posted link for proof.
The main theme, in the Business Facilities article, of attracting businesses and in turn JOBS into Michigan is thru TAX-ABATEMENTS!! Making my original point!
Labor Unions don't create jobs! Businesses do!
Granholm is starting to get the idea thru her pretty little skull, by extending tax breaks or abatements to the movie industry. Wow! What a great idea!
Now lets abolish the state income tax! Like other successful states.
ccbatson
May-12-09, 03:15 PM
I would like to believe that fluff piece awarding Michigan as the state of the year...reality will not allow me to. High corporate taxes, depopulation, outsourcing, the fall of the auto industry, high unemployment, busted broke city and state budgets...and on and on. We have the potential to be at the top (people, education, the great lakes, other resources)...we need to get government out of our way in order to flourish.
http://www.mlive.com/annarbornews/business/index.ssf/2008/12/kdow_deal_canceled_ann_arbor_w.html
Oh slimshaddy you should stick to rapping, cuz your ignorance is showing. K-dow has been canceled. .
due to downturns in Kuwait's fortunes. Dow, however, is looking for a new partner for the project and pursuing breech of contract action.
Michigan landed it, the fact that one of the parties involved pulled out for reasons having nothing to do with michigan is beside the point
ccbatson
May-12-09, 03:39 PM
How, and why did "Michigan land it"?? That is the most important question if you want to use this example as an illustration.
Flanders
May-12-09, 04:03 PM
I would like to believe that fluff piece awarding Michigan as the state of the year...reality will not allow me to. High corporate taxes, depopulation, outsourcing, the fall of the auto industry, high unemployment, busted broke city and state budgets...and on and on. We have the potential to be at the top (people, education, the great lakes, other resources)...we need to get government out of our way in order to flourish.
That statement is so laughable, as if globalization has nothing to do with Michigan being the poster state for the ultimate fate of what will befall the entire nation, and states competing against each other for ever-dwindling business opportunities that do not involve their natural resources, (oil, gas, ect..) is a joke.
The state government would have to create a corporate capitalist nirvana in Michigan by adhering to the same labor standards (safety, health, wages, benefits) and industrial regulations (pollution, product safety/quality, hazardous materials) as "imposed" by communist China, because they are our true 21st century competition, not the right to work states.
It should come as no surprise that the past 45 years of Republican and southern Democrat control of the executive office in DC has led to the decimation of heavy industry and manufacturing in northern states like Michigan, Ohio, and Pennsylvania.
barnesfoto
May-12-09, 06:40 PM
I know of a much worse place to do business: Guatemala. Just ask Henry Posner lll.
Guatemala, where our tax dollars have been dumped into supporting death-squad governments from the time of the 1954 Coup sponsored by the Eisenhower Admin, peaking during the reign of Ronald Ray-Gun and continuing to the time of the 1st Bush Admin....
Guatemala, where labor unions are weak or nonexistent, taxes are low, there are no handouts for social parasites, er, the poor (which is the majority of the population).
Guatemala, where conservocrite values are firmly in place, Guatemala, where a in a model of neo-liberal (or as we call it here, neo-con) reform, a formerly money losing government railroad system was sold to an entrepreneur from the US....
article orignally published in the WSJ, (yes, those socialists)
a string of other published articles follow)
http://www.internationalsteam.co.uk/trains/guat009.htm
CapitalistPig
May-12-09, 09:56 PM
WOW! Deep! I think your on to something, maybe we should prosecute the "ray-gun"(is that an insult and more name calling?) and 1st bush admin for funding them...
The situation in Guatemala would never happen in this country, because we have a constitution and a bill of rights. "...unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
All I'm saying is can we please try something new in this State? I want the State of Michigan and the City of Detroit, for that matter to be the best state for business and job growth, which means prosperity for everybody! Just like we did 100 years ago, hell 50 years ago. We can do it! Can we all agree on that?!?! Lets be the first citizens to really change something in this State. Instead of riding down the train of despair, which has been the status quo for all politician in this State for the last 30-40years! (REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS!) We all knew this day would come when jobs have been hemorrhaging for the past 30+ years.
Something new would be to repeal the State of Michigan Income Tax. We all have seen and heard about the benefits of one small sector of business IE the film industries State tax incentive. Lets spread that same idea to State Income Tax reform.
There is a direct correlation between lowering taxes and increased tax revenue! That is real CHANGE!!
barnesfoto
May-12-09, 11:03 PM
"The situation in Guatemala would never happen in this country"
Only because there is not a superpower that interferes in our elections (The way the Eisenhower Admin interfered in Guatemala's election--Guatemala, after all, has had a constitution since winning independence....
But it was rendered useless when people claiming to represent "anti-communism" and "free market" ideas
funded a coup..
Still, the taxes there are lower, as they are in most of Central America and Mexico....
Perhaps you should look to those places for the road to prosperity that you claim would be ours save all these awful "socialist" policies...
CapitalistPig
May-12-09, 11:28 PM
so what are your ideas for the rebirth of Detroit and Michigan?
East Detroit
May-13-09, 12:42 AM
Replace Fermi II with a thermal coupler hooked up to this forum to convert the elevated temperature nitrogen mix to energy.
CapitalistPig
May-13-09, 01:10 PM
My model is not Guatemala. I don't put words in your mouth. I would appreciate the same respect.
Neither Guatemala nor Sweden politics or economies would work in this country. We are too large, too prosperous, and always growing! Despite the anti-growth aka anti-capitalist leaders we've had and will have.
CapitalistPig
May-13-09, 01:16 PM
Replace Fermi II with a thermal coupler hooked up to this forum to convert the elevated temperature nitrogen mix to energy.
I agree we need more nuclear, to support this websites energy consumption!
ghettopalmetto
May-13-09, 02:19 PM
http://www.mlive.com/annarbornews/business/index.ssf/2008/12/kdow_deal_canceled_ann_arbor_w.html
Oh slimshaddy you should stick to rapping, cuz your ignorance is showing. K-dow has been canceled. Discrediting your little Business Facilities article. Read the above posted link for proof.
The main theme, in the Business Facilities article, of attracting businesses and in turn JOBS into Michigan is thru TAX-ABATEMENTS!! Making my original point!
Labor Unions don't create jobs! Businesses do!
Granholm is starting to get the idea thru her pretty little skull, by extending tax breaks or abatements to the movie industry. Wow! What a great idea!
Now lets abolish the state income tax! Like other successful states.
You're right. It's obvious that a policy of ZERO income tax has made South Dakota, Nevada, Wyoming, and Alaska into economic juggernauts. Michigan should aspire to be more like those states, for sure.
ghettopalmetto
May-13-09, 02:24 PM
My model is not Guatemala. I don't put words in your mouth. I would appreciate the same respect.
Neither Guatemala nor Sweden politics or economies would work in this country. We are too large, too prosperous, and always growing!
Except when we're not growing. Like now, in the midst of a severe recession.
CapitalistPig, can I live where you do? It sounds magnificent.
ccbatson
May-13-09, 02:57 PM
No Flanders, no need for corporate socialism...just plain old free enteprise and capitalism. As bad as things are, and as bad as they are likely to get, why not try this? I know why statists like Obama and the Democrats are not interested...they want more power/bigger government. However, in the US, for the time being, we...the voters choose who should represent us. We need to fire the socialists and hire the capitalists.
ghettopalmetto
May-13-09, 03:01 PM
However, in the US, for the time being, we...the voters choose who should represent us. We need to fire the socialists and hire the capitalists.
You had your chance in November. The majority of the electorate did not agree with you.
I must say, your capitalists did a real bang up job the past 8 years, though.
ccbatson
May-13-09, 03:04 PM
"My capitalists" haven't had a chance yet.....Reagan was close (and did a big bang up job).
The good thing here is that, in the US, we get a chance at a do over in 4 years (sooner for some in congress). Remember that Reagan followed....Carter....a relative amateur Marxist next to Obama.
ghettopalmetto
May-13-09, 03:07 PM
"My capitalists" haven't had a chance yet.....Reagan was close (and did a big bang up job).
The good thing here is that, in the US, we get a chance at a do over in 4 years (sooner for some in congress). Remember that Reagan followed....Carter....a relative amateur Marxist next to Obama.
Let me just ask you, are you better off now than you were 8 years ago?
ccbatson
May-13-09, 03:10 PM
Now? 3 months into Obama's term of office?
Actually, yes, but that takes into account that I have climbed a ladder in my field over the last 8 years.
"My capitalists" haven't had a chance yet.....Reagan was close (and did a big bang up job)..
ahhhh, the old "real x..." hasn't been tried. "z came close..." argument.
Reagan - tax cuts for the rich resulting in the deepest recession since the GD until now, ended it by borrowing and spending on record levels. Since then, adjusting for inflation, real median wages have gone DOWN every year except 1997-2000.
bang up job
ccbatson
May-13-09, 03:23 PM
Which deep recession are you referring to?
Qualified stats are weak stats Rb.
Now? 3 months into Obama's term of office?
Actually, yes, but that takes into account that I have climbed a ladder in my field over the last 8 years.
Wow. Just wow. Man that must be a big ass ladder. How do you get internet access up there?
ccbatson
May-13-09, 03:27 PM
Broadband internet access, no less.
Truth is truth....believe what you like.
ghettopalmetto
May-13-09, 03:27 PM
Which deep recession are you referring to?
Qualified stats are weak stats Rb.
"Qualified"??? You mean adjusting for inflation is now a "qualifying statement"? Yikes!
gp, anything that allows him to squirm away from truth is a good thing, or did you not notice?
ccbatson
May-13-09, 03:30 PM
Yes, and more....Median, for a 8 year window, and relative to the period before that showed growth.
An analogy to Japan's economy fits here. They have been in a recession for 10 years (or so) now. However, until very recently, they were not doing very badly at all. Why? The huge growth that they had leading up to this 10 year mark was unsustainable.
FWIW, I noticed one of those Jeff Daniels Michigan Economic Development Corporation TV commercials (http://www.themedc.org/News-Media/Multimedia/Business/) playing in Hollywood, Florida a few days ago. Michigan is getting some positive exposure down there. Their sincerity seems to make them pretty effective.
http://www.michiganadvantage.org/default.aspx
I'm the one on this thread who lives in both Florida, and Michigan, and I see "Pure Michigan" ads every day, several times per day, and Jeff Daniel's ads as well. I hope they keep it up, as it really does help people know that Michigan exists, and has alot to offer.
That said, Crapitalist Prig, the one who started this thread, needs to wake up- Michigan isn't worse off having a state income tax, sure, it sucks to have to pay it, but here in Florida, we don't see any measurable effect from not having one.
We are so taxed in this state in so many other ways, and on top of it, our schools rank near dead last in quality and accomplishment of any state in the union.
Our lottery was suppose to fix that problem, and of course, with that much money floating around, graft and corruption gets in the way, and the schools suffer. :(
Florida has generally been regarded as a safe haven for wealthy prigs to shelter their incomes, and are easy plane hops to the tax havens of the Caribbean, where most shysters set up their evasion schemes. Truly a paradise for Crapitalist Prigs. :cool:
Miami runs it's politics like Detroit, only worse. We actually have council people, have had mayors, who were indicted criminals, served jail time, and were re-elected by the well educated population.
Tourists come here, urinate in public, barf on sidewalks, strew garbage, and cause traffic accidents daily. I can't even leave home for a few hours, doing errands, without a near-miss accident- DAILY! :eek:
Be grateful for what you have, I'll be coming back in the near future for half a year or more, and will transition back as business permits.
ccbatson
May-14-09, 09:38 PM
No measurable effect? Logic tells you that a potential business venture will gravitate away from places that have higher taxes to those that have lower taxes. I guess lack of growth is hard to measure, but loss of production is not transparent.
No measurable effect? Logic tells you that a potential business venture will gravitate away from places that have higher taxes to those that have lower taxes. I guess lack of growth is hard to measure, but loss of production is not transparent.
which is why many of the fastest growing states had HIGHER corporate taxes than michigan
No measurable effect? Logic tells you that a potential business venture will gravitate away from places that have higher taxes to those that have lower taxes. I guess lack of growth is hard to measure, but loss of production is not transparent.
Living up to your Batcrap reputation as ever, I see.
Lack of a state income tax here in florida has given us a great influx of tax evading criminals, mob figures, Trump types, and of course the elderly, no offense to the elderly, but so many concentrated in one place puts strains on quality health care, schools, (since they always vote down millage increases having no school age kids)
Oh, and I forgot to mention illegal aliens, and the poverty stricken in general, since any tax savings is better than none at all as far as they are concerned.
Tax policy, especially corporate tax policy and it's effects are more visible in the positive sense of the word in places like Michigan, Illinois, etc. Because Michigan has great universities, which turn out skilled professionals, coupled with a skilled unionized labor pool, with a generally good work ethic, you get greater economic growth. That's not up for debate.
Compared to the lack of an educated population, (don't forget we had Jeb Bush for years as governor) no unionization, overrun with illegals and elderly, you get the banana republic which Florida has become over the years. I know, I live here.
ghettopalmetto
May-15-09, 04:40 PM
No measurable effect? Logic tells you that a potential business venture will gravitate away from places that have higher taxes to those that have lower taxes. I guess lack of growth is hard to measure, but loss of production is not transparent.
I guess that's why the whole of Manhattan is packing up and moving to Mississippi, right?
Flanders
May-15-09, 05:59 PM
"My capitalists" haven't had a chance yet.....Reagan was close (and did a big bang up job).
The good thing here is that, in the US, we get a chance at a do over in 4 years (sooner for some in congress). Remember that Reagan followed....Carter....a relative amateur Marxist next to Obama.
There ain't no Reagan in the political pipeline Bats, and GWB was your Carter..:D
I would love to see a Palin/Bachmann GOP ticket in '12.
Female fundie fanaticism FTL.
High comedy at its finest, and SNL could just perform their media interviews.
ccbatson
May-15-09, 09:08 PM
Jindahl, Romney (reformed from Massuchusetts Romney), Giuliani, Palin, Jeb Bush, or one of many other non politician conservatives (wouldn't that be great? a non politician for a fresh perspective.
ccbatson
May-15-09, 09:30 PM
Don't be so sure...remember Obama got in despite all conventional wisdom and predictions.
ejames01
May-16-09, 10:16 AM
Just wait til 2016!!!
ccbatson
May-16-09, 10:18 AM
Identifying with Obama as a mainstream Democrat will come back to haunt you as he demonstrates how radical and Marxist he is. This will be the undoing of the Democrats as Americans get more and more disgruntled with their loss of liberty and intrusion of big government.
If anything, Obama is more of a centrist. He's not really living up to the hopes of the true left liberals, which is a shame, but we know why he's doing it.
See, one of the biggest differences between Dems and Repugs, is that we can read between the lines of intent vs. window dressing. Repugs see only the window dressing, and worse yet, swallow it hook, line and sinker. :eek:
ccbatson
May-16-09, 10:30 AM
Your ignorant dream is our (everyone else's) nightmare Lorax. For you, and others like you, no need to worry, you will soon be rudely awakened from your dreams.
You're the one living in fantasy land, Batboy.
You guys had 8 years of unfettered theft of the treasury, war, death and destruction- talk about a nightmare!
I'll take any communist, socialist, fantasy over that one any day of the week.
Actually my fantasy is seeing the Bush Crime Family in prison, bankrupted (got to hit them where it hurts repugs most), and humiliated, if that is even possible, since they have no shame. :(
ccbatson
May-16-09, 10:51 AM
There you have it...you admit it yourself, unrealistic fantasies is what you are basing your ideology on.
There you have it...you admit it yourself, unrealistic fantasies is what you are basing your ideology on.
Perhaps you haven't heard, but Obama won by a landslide, and that was WITH repugnican voter fraud going full-tilt boogie, so his margins were even greater than the "official" vote tally.
Obama represents the most Americans by insurmountable numbers. You, Batts, represent less than 20% of the voting population, which is amazing we even entertain your politically naive viewpoints here.
As far as my fantasy of seeing the Bush Crime Family imprisoned and bankrupted, perhaps it's not such a far-off fantasy. Time will tell.
However the court of public opinion has condemned the Bush Crime Family, which includes Big Dick Cheney, and the footnotes to their reign of terror will always include the illegal war of choice for oil gain, the illegal wiretapping, the illegal firing of judges for political purposes, not to minimize the murder of a million Iraquis, and 7000+ of our own citizens.
Quite a track record.
And you wonder why Obama won by a landslide?
You're lucky it was Obama who won, as opposed to someone uneducated, doctrinal, socially retarded and egotisitcal, say, like Sarah Palin. That would have been a disaster of global proportions. At least it doesn't make your loss look so bad.
DetroitDad
May-17-09, 03:21 PM
Part of the reason I think Michigan is viewed as terrible to do business in is the same reason we lack ample small business and instead have so many chains. It's the cost of entry. Many otherwise would be entrepreneurs are shut out of doing the things they love because of the high entry costs and red tape. Instead they go elsewhere.
On the other hand, the high costs support the entry of non Michigan headquartered chains. Chains like that there is such a high cost of entry. High cost of entry means less competition.
The problem besides the contribution to the Michigan exodus, is that it probably contributes to crime. Things like the Russell Bazaar must be God sends to locals who are in cash crunches, but is not enough. I can go to some other cities or states and operate at a flea market, a "nice" push cart, or as a street vendor for much less than I can in Detroit. Why would anyone actually start a business in Detroit other than family ties or karma?
ccbatson
May-17-09, 06:06 PM
He didn't win by a landslide...but he most certainly won.
Right leaning?? I can't imagine one single measure of conservatism on which he (Obama) would be considered sympathetic. Some explanation would be nice Slim.
Ah, yes, Obama won by a landslide, and did so with heavy duty repugnican voter fraud happening all over the place, especially in swing states, which are their favorite, and most logical targets, such as Ohio and Florida.
It makes his victory all the more one sided, since the numbers are likely 10-12% higher than the final tallies.
I live here, I know what goes down with the slimy "Brooks Brothers Brigades" and their voter supression tactics. :cool:
ccbatson
May-18-09, 12:13 AM
Sigh...define landslide....nuff said.
BTW, don't count your imaginary voter fraud (ACORN has that market cornered for the libs anyway).
Sigh...define landslide....nuff said.
BTW, don't count your imaginary voter fraud (ACORN has that market cornered for the libs anyway).
Already did define it, not doing it again.
ACORN wasn't involved in any voter fraud. Keep drinking the Tush Flavorerd KoolAid.
You can't commit voter fraud until someone actually shows up named Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck with a verifyable driver's license and registration card and tries to vote. Didn't happen, never will.
ccbatson
May-25-09, 08:23 PM
You defined it and 2008 qualified? You need new glasses.
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