French woman searches traces of grandfather from Detroit

[Mikeg]

Re-starting the thread of the same title that was begun on the old forum by "Mary_murphy".

Click here (http://atdetroit.net/forum/messages/5/179244.html?1238498012" target="_self) to view the original thread on the old forum.

Click here (http://genealogy.grobbel.org/murphy/) to view the "Searching for William Murphy" research summary page.

I'll keep chipping away at it while we wait for a response to the SF-180 that I submitted for Wm. Murphy #1. However, feel free to help out by doing a little genealogy research on one or more of those William Murphys on the summary page or finding more of them from SE Michigan to add to the search. We need to determine if any others besides Wm. Murphy #1 could have been inducted into the US Army and shipped over to France by the 4th quarter of 1918.

[Mary Murphy]

Hello,

I arrived to log on the new forum.
I am happy to regain you

More soon.
Mary

[Bigb23]

Whew - welcome back Mary !

[DtCtyGrl]

Sorry I haven't been able to do any research lately. I'll try to get back to it soon. Thanks, Mikeg, for compiling everything. It will help all of us track the research.
Regards, DtCtyGrl

[DtCtyGrl]

Mikeg, I believe this is the William Murphy, born May 19, 1892 with occupation of office supt. at J.L. Hudson. I have the census record saved. How do I get that to you?

1900 Detroit Census / June 11, 1900
Murphy, Antone head / w/ m / May 1865 / age 48 / M / number of years married 15 / Ireland / Ireland/ Ireland / immigration year 1880 / # of years in US 20 / Policeman? / own home / free of mortage / home /
Murphy, Anne / wife / w / f / Mar 18? / age 41 / M / children 4 / children living 4 / Ireland / Ireland / Ireland / 1880 / 20 years
Murphy, Anne / daughter / w / f / March 1887 / age 13 / S
Murphy, Johnson / son / w / m / Sep 1888 / age 11 / S
Murphy, Antone / son / w / m / Feb 1891 / age 9 / S
Murphy, William / son / w / m May 1892 / age 8 / S
Address 869 16th Street, Detroit, MI

[DtCtyGrl]

1910 Census
Same person as listed above. Listed at home with Anthony (Father), Annie (Mother), Annie L. (sister), Anthony (brother), William (age 18)

William Murphy / age 18 / book keeper /department store

[Mikeg]

I have the census record saved. How do I get that to you?

Thanks!

I've added a contact link near the bottom of the summary web page (http://genealogy.grobbel.org/murphy/). Follow the instructions on my contact page (http://grobbel.org/contact.html) and you can e-mail it to me as an attachment and I will upload and add add a link to it on the summary page.

[Mikeg]

Thanks to DtCtyGrl for the additional information (http://genealogy.grobbel.org/murphy/) on William Murphy numbers 4,7,11 & 15.

[Mary Murphy]

Thank you to Mikeg and DtCtyGrl and other persons for the great work that you do.

Tomorrow, I will go away for few days. I will come back in middle next week.

A few years,I would like go to USA .

My daughter would like to visit New York, but I would like to visit Detroit.
Could you (one day) send me information on the most interesting places at Detroit that we will can see?
With you, sometimes, I have feeling to be as in a family who lives at Detroit.
That is comforting for me.
Cordially.
Mary

[Bigb23]

Could you (one day) send me information on the most interesting places at Detroit that we will can see?

The Henry Ford ? And anyplace in Windsor. Also up north, the Au Sable for example.

[Lferg]

Mike, I sent over a few census records including the 1930 census for William #3 to the contact listed on the website, just wanted to make sure you got it, if not let me know and I will resend.

As for places to visit, I have to agree with Bigb23, Henry Ford and Greenfield Village should be on the list. The Detroit Historical Museum is on my list for the next time I'm back in the area.

One last thing, While searching for William Murphy I came across a Michael William Murphy who went by Will, are we certain William was a first name?

[DtCtyGrl]

One last thing, While searching for William Murphy I came across a Michael William Murphy who went by Will, are we certain William was a first name?

I think we would want to explore any we find that have first or middle name as William. Does Michael William Murphy fit with the time frame we are looking at?

[Mikeg]

Hello Lferg,

Thanks for sending me that information!

I got home late last night and I intend to update the summary page with what you've found later today.

[Frankg]

I have run across this William Murphy (born 1892, office supt.) before when I have done my own genealogical research. My grandmother (Gertrude Murphy) lived in LaSalle, ONT, and commuted to work at Hudson's in Detroit, in the early-mid 1930's. I ran across this William Murphy in the city directories and have wondered several times if there was a family connection in how my grandma got her job at Hudson's. But I haven't found a link (yet).

[Lferg]

Hi DtCtyGrl, yes, he would fit the time frame. However, I have not been able to find him or the family in the census records. This particular Micheal William Murphy never married and became an ordained Priest at the age of 80! Note, the article does not mention the middle name, but I found him searching through old newspaper articles for William Murphy and came across a message board post where he was referred to as "Uncle Willy". However, I couldn't find any articles that referenced the World War. Another point of interest is that his family had been in the US for generations which doesn't really fit with what Mary knows.

But, it did bring up the valid question as to whether or not William was a first name, or possibly his middle name.

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/04/28/obituaries/rev-michael-w-murphy-catholic-priest-98.html

[Lferg]

Sorry if this has already been posted, but I thought Mary might like to see it.

http://apps.detnews.com/apps/history/index.php?id=47

[Mikeg]

Sorry if this has already been posted, but I thought Mary might like to see it.

http://apps.detnews.com/apps/history/index.php?id=47

And here is the "Hall of Fame" thread (http://atdetroit.net/forum/messages/6790/119110.html?1197513130) about "Detroit's Own" 339th Infantry Regiment describing how they continued fighting in North Russia for six months beyond Armistice Day and the celebration the citizens of Detroit held for them when they returned home on the 4th of July 1919.

[Mikeg]

I have updated the research summary page (http://genealogy.grobbel.org/murphy/) with the new information provided by Lferg.

William Murphy # 18 looks promising!

[Lferg]

Thanks Mikeg for the link to the Polar Bears and the HOF thread!

I still have to request the records for my Great Grandfather (WWI) and my Grandfather (WWII). Is there an advantage to having my Father request them?

[DtCtyGrl]

We can take #10 William Fletcher Murphy out of the running for consideration. His draft registration states he was mute and exempted from the draft.

[Mikeg]

Thanks Mikeg for the link to the Polar Bears and the HOF thread!

I still have to request the records for my Great Grandfather (WWI) and my Grandfather (WWII). Is there an advantage to having my Father request them?

If your grandfather is deceased, then your father is his next-of-kin and he can request his full military record, whereas you would only be able to request portions of it [source (http://www.archives.gov/st-louis/military-personnel/public/veterans-and-next-of-kin.html)]. Also, next-of-kin may make their request on line instead of using SF-180 [source (http://www.archives.gov/veterans/evetrecs/index.html)]. Your great grandfather's limited military records can be requested by either your father or yourself, there would be no advantage. However, if your grandfather is not deceased, he could request both his own and his father's full military records using the on-line method (with your assistance on the computer).

[Mikeg]

We can take #10 William Fletcher Murphy out of the running for consideration. His draft registration states he was mute and exempted from the draft.

Good catch! I completely missed the "Mute" exemption entry.

I've updated the summary page (http://genealogy.grobbel.org/murphy/) accordingly.

[Lferg]

Thanks for the info Mikeg, both are deceased. I do have a Great Uncle that might order Great Grandpa's records for me.

[Mikeg]

DtCtyGrl has provided additional information about William Murphy # 17 and # 18.

The summary page (http://genealogy.grobbel.org/murphy/) has been updated with links to the documents she has found.

[Mikeg]

I received a response today from the Military Personnel Records section of the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis, MO regarding the "SF-180" I submitted for William Murphy #1.

They responded with a form letter indicating that his military personnel records were either damaged or completely destroyed in the July 1973 fire (they did not indicate which). This comes as no great surprise, since personnel records of all US Army veterans who were discharged between Nov. 1, 1912 and Dec. 31, 1959 were caught in the fire. However, they may be able to partially reconstruct his personnel record using any surviving fragments plus information about his military service that may exist at other locations. They have instructed me to fill out the enclosed "NA Form 13075" with as much additional information as I can provide about him and submit it within the next 30 days, which I will most certainly do.

[Alfie1a]

I don't know whether or not this would be appropriate but perhaps an e-mail to the creator of this site could be helpful. He has done extensive research into the mining industry up in copper country. He may have a list of names. I notice there are 2 candidates from that area.

side note. there is a link back to Ruins of Detroit on his site. how cool is that

[Mary Murphy]

Mikeg, Alfie1a,

Thank you very much
.
Mike, I amaze by the work that you do. I went on summary page that you have made. Little by little, we can progress.

Alfie,
I don't understand the last sentence.
Sometimes my American teacher can help to translate. Sometimes I must translate alone. When you employ idioms, I am lost. (and if you write of difficult way, I don't understand very well). But, when I see my American teacher, she translates the idioms and it is very interesting for me.

Thank you very much again.
Mary

[Mikeg]

Thank you very much
.
Mike, I am amazed by the work that you doAll of the most recent research work has been done by "DtCtyGrl" and "Lferg", I have simply posted the new information to the summary web page.

I have been juggling several other genealogical and historical research projects that are near completion, plus I am working on my income taxes. As soon as I get those all behind me, I hope to be able to do more on the William Murphy research.

Tous les plus récents de la recherche de travail a été fait par "DtCtyGrl" et "Lferg", j'ai simplement émis des nouvelles informations au sommaire page Web.

J'ai été de jongler avec plusieurs autres généalogique et historique des projets de recherche qui sont en voie d'achèvement, plus je travaille sur mes impôts sur le revenu. Dès que je reçois tous ceux derrière moi, j'espère être en mesure de faire plus sur la recherche de William Murphy.


Alfie,
I don't understand the last sentenceHe is saying that he found another web site and that the owner has a link on it to this web site (http://detroityes.com/0tourdetroit.htm#The_Fabulous_Ruins), which is owned by the same person who owns this DetroitYes forum. "How cool is that" means he thinks that is an interesting coincidence. Unfortunately, Alfie1a forgot to include a link to the web site he found, which apparently is about the "Copper Country" region of the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. The "Copper Country" is the area where William Murphy # 1 and # 2 were living when they joined the Army. William # 1 worked in the copper mines and # 2 was a clerk for a copper mining company.

Il dit qu'il a trouvé un autre site Web et que le propriétaire a un lien Ã. ce site web (http://detroityes.com/0tourdetroit.htm#The_Fabulous_Ruins), qui est détenue par la même personne qui est propriétaire de ce forum DetroitYes. "Comment est cool que« les moyens Alfie1a constate que, pour être une coïncidence intéressante.Malheureusement, Alfie1a oublié d'inclure un lien vers le site web il a trouvé, qui est apparemment sur le "Pays de cuivre" de la région de Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Le "Pays de cuivre» est la zone où William Murphy # 1 et # 2 ont été la vie quand ils ont rejoint l'Armée de terre. William n ° 1 a travaillé dans les mines de cuivre et n ° 2 a été un employé d'une compagnie minière de cuivre.

[Alfie1a]

oops. Forgot the link. hehe here it is.

http://www.pasty.com/reflections/index.htm

I would e-mail Mr. Voelker myself but not too good at that sort of thing.

Mikeg, thanks for explaining to Mary about my last sentence. If I did that, I would have probably caused more confusion.

Hi Mary and good luck with your search.

[Mikeg]

Thanks for the link, Alfie1a! It's a very interesting web site with tons of old photos.

From the "Contact Me (http://www.pasty.com/reflections/id41.htm)" page, it appears that the web site author now resides here in suburban Detroit.

[Mary Murphy]

Hi Mikeg , Alfie 1a, everyone,

Thank you very much , Mike, for the translation of Alfie . Thank you to Alfie for your link with old photos.

Alfie, it is not grave that you employ idioms or sentences that are not simple. Thus, I can progress in English. And my American teacher can me help.

I am happy to read you

Cordially.

Mary

[Lferg]

Hi Mary,

Have you tried posting a message on one of the genealogy sites? Genforum and Rootsweb both offer message boards where you will find other people researching the Murphy surname.

http://genforum.genealogy.com/murphy/

It may also be worth a try to post it in the WWI forum.

http://genforum.genealogy.com/wwi/

Here is the link for the Roostweb board.

http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.murphy/mb.ashx

[Mary Murphy]

Thank you very much Lferg.
I am trying to post a message on http://genforum.genealogy.com/murphy/. I am registered me, I have received a message on my e-mail and than I wrote a message on this site , but I can not post it. Perhaps I must wait.
Tomorrow I will try to post on other sites.
Thank you again.
Mary

[Lferg]

Hi Mary, it must have worked as I just saw the message.

[Mary Murphy]

Hi,

Thank you very much Lferg.

I am registered me, to on the site http://genforum.genealogy.com/wwi/ and I posted a message.

I went to on the site http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.murphy/mb.ashx, Mike posted already a message, in March, for my research.

More soon and cordially.

Mary

[Mikeg]

Hello Mary,

I have been very busy this week but I will do some more searching in a few days.

J'ai été très occupé cette semaine, mais je vais faire un peu plus de recherche dans quelques jours.

Mikeg

[Mary Murphy]

Hello Mike,

Thank you very much for your help.

I am happy to read you and to read the persons of this forum.

More soon.

Good Sunday.

Mary

[Mikeg]

DtCtyGrl has sent me a lot of additional information that she found over the weekend about William Murphy #8, #9 and #13. I have updated the summary page (http://genealogy.grobbel.org/murphy/) with her new discoveries. All three of these men have been ruled out as possibly being the grandfather of Mary Murphy. The original list of 18 names has now been whittled down to 7 possibilities: 2 that are strong, 3 that are weak and 2 that are of unknown potential.

DtCtyGrl m'a envoyé un grand nombre d'informations supplémentaires qu'elle a trouvé au cours du week-end de William Murphy # 8, # 9 et # 13. J'ai mis Ã. jour la page de résumé de ses découvertes. Ces trois hommes ont été exclu comme pouvant être le père de Mary Murphy. La liste initiale de 18 noms a été réduite Ã. 7 possibilités: 2, qui sont solides, 3 qui sont faibles et 2 qui sont de potentiels inconnus.

[Mary Murphy]

Thank you again Mike and thank you to at DtCtyGrl for the big work that you do.,

Little by little, we begin to see more clear , because, now, there are less of William Murphy who can be my grandfather. But I hope that there are not other William Murphy (forgotten) who could be this grandfather. I hope to, that William was his first given name end not a middle name as one person wrote on this forum.

I am always happy to read you.

More soon.

Mary

[Lferg]

Hi Mary,

Can you remember anything else your Grandmother said about William? Did she tell you if he was tall, or what color hair he had? Did your Father possibly look like him?

Also, did he know about your Father?

[Mary Murphy]

Hi Lferg,

My grandmother told nothing about William . It is my father that told about William. The mother of my father (my grandmother) said him that William was tall, handsome man , blond red hair.

I think that my father could look like William, but I am not sure.

My father told me that William wrote letters to Germaine (my grandmother) and that the mother of my grandmother burnt this letters when Germaine was pregnant. I know only that.
Unfortunately!

Thank very much for your message.
More soon.

Mary

[Mikeg]

I've found the 1910 and 1920 US Census records for William Murphy #1 and have uploaded them and updated the summary page (http://genealogy.grobbel.org/murphy/).

Based on the National Personnel Records Center's response to my SF-180 request on this individual, I have completed and submitted the "Questionnaire About Military Service" (Form 13075).

I am so far unable to find the Draft Registration Card for William Murphy #18.

[Lferg]

I couldn't find a draft card for #18 either, maybe he enlisted?

[faygoredpop]

I found #18's draft registration. His birthday is April 16, not April 19.
886

[Mary Murphy]

Thank you very much for your Help!
Cordially and more soon.
Mary

[Mikeg]

I've updated the Summary Page (http://genealogy.grobbel.org/murphy/)with added information on William Murphy #12, #14 and #18 received from Lferg and Faygoredpop. William Murphy #18 looks like a strong candidate for another SF-180.

J'ai mis Ã. jour Ã. l'aide de l'ajouter des informations sur William Murphy # 12, # 14 et # 18 ont reçu de Lferg et Faygoredpop. William Murphy # 18 semble être un excellent candidat pour une autre SF-180.

[Lferg]

I'm not so sure about #18, if he was described as short with brown hair, could he be considered tall with blond red hair to a french woman?

[Mary Murphy]

Thank you very much Lferg and Faygoredpop.

Mike, I am very happy, because, now, there are less of William Murphy. The number “18” is perhaps a good candidate for an other SF- 180. But my father told me that William was tall with blond red hair... But the colours of hair , the size are subjective things.

Thank you again, Mike.

More soon.
Mary

[Mary Murphy]

Hi Lferg,

How it is strange!. During I Prepared my answer, You replied more quick than me and for the same thing.

Cordially.
Mary

[faygoredpop]

I may have found William J. Murphy #18. I looked at the Nationwide Gravesite Locator. This site displays where veterans are buried. The website is http://gravelocator.cem.va.gov When I inputed William Murphy with the birth year of 1895 one of the ones that came up was


5. MURPHY, WILLIAM J PFC US ARMY WORLD WAR I DATE OF BIRTH: 04/16/1895 DATE OF DEATH: 12/10/1959 BURIED AT: SECTION G SITE 497 http://gravelocator.cem.va.gov/j2ee/servlet/img_ngl/btnViewMap.gif (http://gravelocator.cem.va.gov/j2ee/servlet/NGLMap?ID=1294425)NEW ALBANY NATIONAL CEMETERY (http://www.cem.va.gov/CEM/cems/nchp/newalbany.asp) 1943 EKIN AVENUE NEW ALBANY, IN 47150 (812) 948-5234


Now, I know that this person is buried in Indiana and not Michigan, but he may have moved. I have tried to see if the cemetery has a website that I could email them to see if this is the same William J. Murphy from Michigan, unfortunately they do not, but this might be a new lead.

[Mary Murphy]

Hi Faygoredpop,

Thank you very much for research. Sometimes, I don’t understand very well. But I try to progress.
I will write that I understand.
You found a William Murphy who could be the number 18. But He moved in Indiana and his birth date is not the same that this number 18. It is perhaps a new clue (a new William Murphy).

Cordially and more soon.

Mary

[Mikeg]

Regarding William J. Murphy # 18, it appears to me that we have probably combined information about two different men with the same first and last names who were born three days apart.

Unless we find conflicting information, we will assume that William J. Murphy #18 is the man who was born on 16 April 1895 and died on 10 Dec 1959, since the birth date in the Nationwide Gravesite Locator matches that given on the draft registration card and the Nationwide Gravesite Locator tells us that he was a WW I veteran. The fact that he is buried in this National Cemetery for veterans (http://www.cem.va.gov/cems/nchp/newalbany.asp) [map (http://www.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=1943+Ekin+Avenue,+New+Albany,+IN+47150&sll=42.662176,-83.044589&sspn=0.007069,0.013819&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=38.300698,-85.805626&spn=0.007544,0.013819&z=16&iwloc=r0)] in an adjacent state does not necessarily mean that he ever lived in that state.

We will also want to investigate to see if there is more information about a William Murphy who (according to the Social Security Death Index) was born on 19 April 1895 and died in Nov 1970. I will identify him as William Murphy #19 on the summary page (http://genealogy.grobbel.org/murphy/).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

En ce qui concerne William J. Murphy # 18, il me semble que nous avons probablement information combinée de deux hommes différents avec les mêmes noms et prénoms qui sont nés trois jours.

A moins que l'on trouve des informations, nous supposerons que William J. Murphy # 18 est l'homme qui est né le 16 avril 1895 et décédé le 10 décembre 1959, depuis la date de naissance dans la tombe Nationwide Locator matches donné que sur le projet de carte d'enregistrement et la tombe Nationwide Locator nous dit qu'il était un ancien combattant de la Première Guerre mondiale. Le fait qu'il est enterré dans ce cimetière national des anciens combattants (http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cem.va.gov%2Fcems%2Fnchp%2Fnewa lbany.asp&sl=en&tl=fr&history_state0=&swap=1) [carte (http://www.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=1943+Ekin+Avenue,+New+Albany,+IN+47150&sll=42.662176,-83.044589&sspn=0.007069,0.013819&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=38.300698,-85.805626&spn=0.007544,0.013819&z=16&iwloc=r0)], dans un Etat voisin ne signifie pas nécessairement qu'il a toujours vécu dans cet État.

Nous voulons aussi étudier pour voir si il n'y a plus d'informations sur un William Murphy, qui (en fonction de la Social Security Death Index) est né le 19 avril 1895 et est décédé en novembre 1970. Je l'identifier comme William Murphy # 19 sur la page de résumé (http://genealogy.grobbel.org/murphy/).

[Mary Murphy]

Hi Mike,

Thank you very much for updating the summary page of the William Murphy(s).
I believe that we have to wait to have more information for this Murphy. Don’t you believe ?
Thank you again for your help.

Cordially.

Mary

[Mary Murphy]

Hi Lferg and every body,

I received a message of Raphls Connors (Murphy Family Genealogy Forum)

Contact the National Personnel Records Center, Military Personnel Records, 9700 Page Avenue, St. Louis, MO 63132-5100. Google the name to find its website. Download an information request form. Complete the form and send it with the requisite payment to the address specified.

What do I do ?

Thank you for your answers.

More soon.

Mary

[Lferg]

Hi Mary,

Mikeg has already sent a form for William Murphy #1, and possibly WM #18. Let's hope a descendant of a William Murphy in Detroit sees your post on Genforum and can offer more information.

[Mikeg]

I believe that we have to wait to have more information for this Murphy. Don’t you believe ?I am still waiting for a reply to the second inquiry I sent about the military records of William Murphy # 1. All of my requests have all been sent to the National Personnel Records Center, Military Personnel Records, 9700 Page Avenue, St. Louis, MO. I would like to see the results for # 1 before we submit a SF-180 for # 18.

Since we know that # 18 is buried in a Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) military cemetery, it is possible that a 1959 document might have still been at the VA when the 1973 National Archives fire happened. Hopefully the 1959 document would contain his Army Division number. Submitting an SF-180 might tell us if they can find that and any other information about # 18. We must learn his Army Division number and then we could determine (from other sources, if necessary) whether his Army Division was in France in late 1918.


Je suis toujours en attente d'une réponse Ã. la deuxième enquête, j'ai envoyé sur les dossiers militaires de William Murphy # 1. Toutes mes demandes ont été envoyées Ã. la National Personnel Records Center, Military Personnel Records, 9700 Page Avenue, St. Louis, MO. Je voudrais voir les résultats de # 1 avant de nous soumettre un SF-180 pour le # 18.

Puisque nous savons que le # 18 est enterré dans un département des Affaires des anciens combattants (VA) cimetière militaire, il est possible que le document de 1959 pourrait avoir toujours été Ã. la VA de 1973 lorsque les Archives nationales d'incendie s'est produit. Il faut espérer que le document devrait contenir 1959 sa division de l'armée nombre. Soumettre un SF-180 pourrait-il nous dire si elles peuvent trouver et que d'autres informations sur le # 18. Nous devons tirer les leçons de son nombre et la division de l'armée, alors nous pourrions déterminer (provenant d'autres sources, si nécessaire), si sa division de l'armée a été en France Ã. la fin 1918.

[Mary Murphy]

Mike and Lferg,

Thank you for answers.
I posted a answer to Raphl. I tried to explain that you have done. And I gave this address of this forum.
Cordially.

Mary

[Mikeg]

bump - still waiting for a reply from St. Louis, MO

[Mary Murphy]

Mike,

Thank you very much for your help , your tenacity and your "waiting".

All the best and cordially to everyone.

Mary

[Lferg]

Just wanted to bump the thread :).

[faygoredpop]

I too just wanted to bump the thread. :)

[Mary Murphy]

Thank you very much Lferg and Faygoredpop.
I hope to read, soon, a new message concerning William Murphy.
But even if there are not new message, I am happy to read you.
All the best.
Mary

[faygoredpop]

Just wanted to bump the thread again

:)

[DtCtyGrl]

Wanted to bump the thread again. Any news on William Murphy #1 from the inquiry?

[Mikeg]

Sorry, I've not gotten any more feedback from the National Personnel Records Center in response to the "Questionnaire About Military Service" (Form 13075) I submitted for William Murphy # 1. It is hard to say if that is a good or a bad thing, but rather than wait any longer, I think I will submit a Standard Form 180 for William Murphy #18 and get the process started on him.

[Mary Murphy]

Hi,
Thank very much to DTCtyGrl and Mike.
You have not forgotten my grandfather "William Murphy".
More soon.
Best wishes.
Mary

[Mikeg]

I received this response (http://genealogy.grobbel.org/murphy/Murphy_Wm_P_SF180_response.jpg) today from the National Personnel Records Center informing me that their search for the military personnel files of William Murphy (#1) was unsuccessful. They conclude that his file was destroyed in the 12 July 1973 fire.

However, they informed me that they were able to find his Final Pay Voucher and that a photocopy may be ordered (http://genealogy.grobbel.org/murphy/NARA_Final_Pay_Voucher_order_form.jpg) for a $20.00 reproduction fee. But after reading their enclosed "Final Pay Voucher Fact Sheet" (http://genealogy.grobbel.org/murphy/NARA_Final_Pay_Voucher_fact_sheet.jpg), it appears that this document would not contain any information that would be useful for our search.

I have updated the Summary Page (http://genealogy.grobbel.org/murphy/) with this new information. Rather than expending any more effort on William Murphy #1 at this time, I will submit a SF-180 for William J. Murphy #18 as soon as I can.

----------------------------------------

J'ai reçu cette réponse (http://genealogy.grobbel.org/murphy/Murphy_Wm_P_SF180_response.jpg) aujourd'hui de la National Personnel Records Center m'informant que la recherche de fichiers du personnel militaire de William Murphy (# 1) a échoué. Ils concluent que son dossier a été détruit dans les 12 Juillet 1973 le feu.

Toutefois, ils m'ont informé qu'ils étaient en mesure de trouver son dernier salaire et que les chèques d'une photocopie (http://genealogy.grobbel.org/murphy/NARA_Final_Pay_Voucher_order_form.jpg) mai être commandés 20,00 $US pour une taxe de reproduction. Après la lecture de leur joint "Final salariale Bon Fact Sheet" (http://genealogy.grobbel.org/murphy/NARA_Final_Pay_Voucher_fact_sheet.jpg), il semble que ce document ne contient aucune information qui serait utile pour notre recherche.


Voici (http://genealogy.grobbel.org/murphy/) le résumé, mis Ã. jour la page. Plutôt que de dépenser plus d'efforts sur William Murphy # 1 Ã. ce moment-lÃ., je vais présenter un SF-180 pour William J. Murphy # 18 dès que je le peux.

[Mikeg]

Curiosity got the better of me so I ordered William Murphy # 1's Final Pay Voucher. It came today and while it doesn't shed any new light on his overseas locations, it does confirm that he was assigned to the 107th Engineers of the US Army's 32nd Infantry Division. It also indicates that:


his hometown was Larium, Michigan when he joined the Army on 20 September 1917
his final rank was Corporal
he returned to the US on 18 May 1919
his pay for the period 1-27 May 1919 was $95.28
he was mustered out of the Army at Camp Custer (near Battle Creek, Michigan) on 27 May 1919
he was also given $28.20 travel pay to return home.

I will submit a SF-180 for William J. Murphy #18 as soon as I can find a block of free time

------------------------------

Curiosité obtenu le meilleur de moi pour que je classés William Murphy # 1's Final Pay Bon. Il est venu aujourd'hui et il ne doit pas jeter une nouvelle lumière sur ses emplacements Ã. l'étranger, mais il confirme qu'il a été affecté Ã. la 107e ingénieurs de l'armée américaine, la 32ème Division d'infanterie. Il indique également que:


Sa ville natale a été Larium, au Michigan, où il rejoint l'armée le 20 Septembre 1917
De son classement final est le Caporal
Il est retourné aux États-Unis le 18 Mai 1919
Son salaire pour la période du 1-27 Mai 1919 était de $95,28

il a été libéré de l'armée Ã. Camp Custer (près de Battle Creek, Michigan) le 27 Mai 1919
Il a également été donnée Voyage payer $28,20 de rentrer chez eux.

Je vais présenter un SF-180 pour William J. Murphy # 18 dès que je peux trouver un bloc de temps libre

[Mary Murphy]

Dear Mike,
Thank you very much for your wonderful work.
I think " William Murphy" number one could be, perhaps, my grandfather. But we can not know if he was at Limoges in November 1918.
Thank you very much one more time.
Best wishes.
Mary

[Lferg]

I found this site on Google which offers information about William's (#1) division.

http://www.32nd-division.org/history/ww1/32-ww1a.html

[Mary Murphy]

Thank you very much Lferg for your message and the link of 32nd division.
Two minutes ago, I went on this site, but I found nothing about William Murphy (#1).
How can I find this William Murphy on this site?
Thank you very much once again.
Best wishes.
Mary

[DtCtyGrl]

Any more word on the William Murphy research?

[Mikeg]

I contacted the New Albany National Cemetery to see what additional information they might have about William J. Murphy #18. The only useful information they could provide was the fact that he served in the "Ordnance Department" (http://www.history.army.mil/books/R&H/R&H-OD.htm) of the U.S. Army.

Adding that fact to the other information we have collected about him, I filled out his SF-180 Request form (http://genealogy.grobbel.org/murphy/Murphy_Wm_J_no_18_SF-180_redacted.jpg) and mailed it today to the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis, MO. I have also updated the Summary Page (http://genealogy.grobbel.org/murphy).

Each American Expeditionary Force (AEF) Infantry Division sent to France during World War One consisted of two Infantry Brigades plus some non-combat support groups that were attached to the Brigades. The US Army Ordnance Department attached 20 soldiers to each Infantry Brigade. The total number of officers and men in each Infantry Division was about 16,700 [source (http://books.google.com/books?id=wImx18twrAYC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q=&f=false)].

Ordnance Department soldiers were also attached to other types of US Army units during World War One:


49 soldiers per Field Artillery Brigade
571 soldiers in the AEF Army Air Service


Since Ordnance Dept. soldiers were non-combatants, it is possible they had more opportunities than combat soldiers to fraternize with the local French population over an extended period of time.

I will report back when I get a response from the National Personnel Records Center.

------------------------------------------

J'ai communiqué avec le New Albany cimetière national de consulter les renseignements supplémentaires qu'ils pourraient avoir sur William J. Murphy # 18. La seule information utile qu'ils pourraient apporter, c'est le fait qu'il a servi dans le «Ordnance Department» de l'armée américaine (http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.history.army.mil%2Fbooks%2FR%26 H%2FR%26H-OD.htm&sl=en&tl=fr&history_state0=&swap=1).

Ajout de ce fait aux autres informations que nous avons recueillis sur lui, j'ai rempli son SF-180 Formulaire (http://genealogy.grobbel.org/murphy/Murphy_Wm_J_no_18_SF-180_redacted.jpg) de demande et envoyée aujourd'hui Ã. la National Personnel Records Center, Ã. St. Louis, MO. J'ai aussi modifié la page sommaire (http://genealogy.grobbel.org/murphy/).

Chaque American Expeditionary Force (AEF) Division d'infanterie envoyée en France pendant la Première Guerre mondiale se composait de deux brigades d'infanterie et quelques non-combattantes de groupes de soutien qui étaient attachés aux brigades. L'US Army Ordnance Department 20 soldats attachés Ã. chaque brigade d'infanterie. Le nombre total des officiers et des hommes dans chaque division d'infanterie était d'environ 16700 [source (http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.com%2Fbooks%3Fid%3DwIm x18twrAYC%26printsec%3Dfrontcover%23v%3Donepage%26 q%3D%26f%3Dfalse&sl=en&tl=fr&history_state0=&swap=1)].

Ordnance Department soldats ont également été reliés Ã. d'autres types d'unités de l'armée américaine pendant la Première Guerre mondiale:



49 soldats par brigade d'artillerie de campagne
571 soldats en service AEF Armée de l'Air


Depuis Ordnance Dept soldats étaient des non-combattants, il est possible qu'ils avaient plus de possibilités que de soldats de combat Ã. fraterniser avec la population locale française, sur une période de temps prolongée.

Je serai de retour déclaration lorsque je obtenir une réponse auprès de la National Personnel Records Center.

[Mary Murphy]

Hi Mike,
I am very happy to read you.
I hope that we will have news of William Murphy number 18, at soon.
Thank you very much.
Best wishes.
Mary

[Mikeg]

I have received a form letter response from the Military Personnel Records section of the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis, MO regarding the "SF-180" I submitted for William J. Murphy #18.

As with William Murphy #1, they indicate that his military personnel records were either damaged or destroyed in the July 1973 fire and they asked me to fill out and return this "NA Form 13075" (http://genealogy.grobbel.org/murphy/William_Murphy_No_18_Form_13075_redacted.jpg), which I have done.

Now we will have to sit back and wait again. In the meantime, I have found our William J. Murphy #18 in an on-line family tree and I have e-mailed the owner of that family tree to see if he has any more information about him, but I have not yet received a response.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

J'ai reçu une lettre type de réponse de la National Personnel Records Center, Ã. St. Louis, MO ce qui concerne la "SF-180" J'ai soumis pour William J. Murphy # 18.

Comme avec William Murphy # 1, ils indiquent que ses dossiers du personnel militaire ont été endommagés ou détruits dans l'incendie de 1973 Juillet et on m'a demandé de remplir et de retourner ce "NA Formulaire 13075" (http://genealogy.grobbel.org/murphy/William_Murphy_No_18_Form_13075_redacted.jpg), que j'ai fait.

Maintenant, il nous faudra s'asseoir et d'attendre Ã. nouveau. En attendant, j'ai trouvé nos William J. Murphy # 18 dans un arbre généalogique en ligne et je l'ai envoyé par courriel le propriétaire de cet arbre pour voir s'il a des informations plus sur lui, mais je n'ai pas encore reçu une réponse.

[Mary Murphy]

Hi Mikeg,
I am happy to read you again. Thank you very very much for your research.
I don't know this idiomatic expression "Now we will have to sit back and wait again".
I think that we have to be patient.
Best wishes.
Mary

[Stosh]

I'm sitting here watching a program on PBS that deals with American VOLUNTEERS that went to France and drove ambulances during WWI. Could this have been what Murphy did? They were all Model T ambulances. They wuld have needed a mechanic... And the French have their records there, in France. With picture ID.

Edit: Never mind. There's a William Murphy on there, from Harvard though. Massachusets.

[Lferg]

Stosh,

It's interesting you bring that up, wasn't Limoges where the medical units were?
Even if he was enlisted, he still could have been there to work on the ambulances.

[Stosh]

Stosh,

It's interesting you bring that up, wasn't Limoges where the medical units were?
Even if he was enlisted, he still could have been there to work on the ambulances.

Entirely possible. The records are there in France, perhaps Mary can make a trip down to see the photo. She could determine if there is a family resemblance or not. In any event, it may be worth a shot. The PBS show was Model T's to War: American Ambulances on the Western Front.

[Mary Murphy]

Hi Stosch and Lferg,
I am happy to read you.
Perhaps William Murphy was mechanic for the ambulance…
A week ago I found an other trace on Internet.
In summer 1918, in Limoges, ( with other cities) the America army created a center for the formation and training of heavy tractor artillery. in Limoges. There were 3 regiments in Limoges. I read it on a journal “ the coast artillery journal” November 1922 page 389 (No 195).Some centers were created with French automobile drivers’ schools.
Some days ago, I sent a message a person who is living in Limoges and is making searches archives in Limoges. But I have not received any answer for the moment.
At soon.
Yours sincerely.
Mary

[Mikeg]

That "Coastal Artillery" article from November 1922 (http://www.airdefenseartillery.com/online/Coast%20Artillery%20Journal/Extract/CA%201922/November%201922.pdf) is a nice find, "Mary Murphy"!

From page 9 of 99:


As a consequence of the arrival in mass at the beginning of the summer of 1918 (8 brigades in June, 9 in July), waiting zones had to be organized near the great camps; by the end of July there were more than 20 brigades under training (60 regiments). For the formation and training of the heavy tractor artillery, there were utilized the French automobile drivers' schools of Tremblay, Dourdan, Boulogne, Sathonay, and they created the centers of:

Mailly - Heavy railroad artillery
Liboume - 3 regiments, later 4
Limoges - 3 regiments
Clermont - 3 regiments
Angers - 3 regiments
Angouleme - 3 regimentsRemember that from his grave stone, we learned that William J. Murphy #18 was a soldier in the US Army Ordnance Department.

From page 6 of 99:


The artillery constitutes the combatant arm. All our artillery services are grouped in what the Americans call Ordnance (See Chapter III).From Chapter III (pages 14 and 15 of 99):


The Ordnance Department is charged with the procurement and distribution of the materiel necessary for the artillery (materiel, armament, harness,) as well as tanks, tractors, special automobiles, machine guns, small arms, infantry equipment, ammunition; it must also maintain this materiel; in a word, it is charged with our Services of the Artillery..... At the time of the armistice, there were in France 1,803 officers and 20,339 enlisted men.

The Services of Supply (S.O.S.) is divided into several different branches.

Supply - This branch is charged with the duty of receiving, storing and distributing supplies. This branch operated at:
Bases - Montoir, Saint-Sulpice, Miramas, for general supplies; Usine Brulee (Saint-Nazaire), Saint Loubes (Bordeaux) etc., for ammunition.

Intermediate Zones - Gievres, Mehun [near Bourges, which is about 200 km north of Limoges] for general supplies. Issoudun for ammunition.

Zones of the Advance - Is-sur-Tille for general supplies. Jonchery (Villers-Ie-See) for ammunition.
Each of these organizations being considerable. Further from them were the army depots, different according to the degree of engagement of the armies.

Construction and Maintenance.- This branch prepared the specifications and plans for the installation of the depots; it operated the large repair shops of Mehun and the other shops of the intermediate and advanced zones; it had particularly large installations at Romorantin, Courbevoie, Is-sur-Tille, Doulaincourt, Haussimont, etc.

Engineering. - This branch maintained a close liaison with the French and English. It had drafting offices at Tours, Paris, etc., proving grounds at Bourges, Mehun, Gavre and Quiberon. Its mission was to furnish all the technical information to the other ordnance sections.

Training. - This branch was charged with organizing and maintaining the schools for forming the Ordnance personnel and training the artillery units in the maintenance of the materiel. It had schools in all the artillery training centers and special schools at:
Is-sur-Tille (personnel of the repair section); [near Dijon]
Jonchery (ammunition); [near Chaumont]
Bourges (ammunition and specialists); [about 200 km north of Limoges]
Saint-John-des-Monts (machine-guns,etc.). [on the coast near Nantes] So far we know that William J. Murphy #18 was in the Ordnance Dept. and that the Ordnance Dept. had responsibility for training Artillery and Ordnance personnel and that 3 regiments (1 brigade) of artillery personnel arrived for training at Limoges during the period of June through September 1918.

This new information supports the possibility that William J. Murphy #18 could have been stationed in Limoges as a trainer during the summer of 1918 and possibly as late as the end of October 1918.

[Mary Murphy]

Super Mike,
You are like “ Sherlock Holmes”.
We have to “sit back and wait” for the information on William Murphy number 18.
Thank you Stosh and Lferg for your idea about the ambulances medical units. We’ll see what answers we get as we wait. In the meantime, I’ll see about organizing a trip to Limoges to check archives or photos myself. It’s not so easy, as I work full time and Limoges is a part of my past that was not always happy.( my American teacher has me helped to translate my ideas for the last sentences).
More soon.
Best wishes.
Mary

[Lferg]

Mike, does the family tree list a wife and children?

[Lferg]

Does anyone have access to Proquest? They recently added historic archives of the Detroit Free Press.

[Mikeg]

Mike, does the family tree list a wife and children? No, William J. Murphy's sister Mary Margaret is the only one shown with additional details and a spouse and children. William J. and his other siblings only have their name and year of birth listed under his parent's names (Cornelius William Murphy, b. 4/16/1871 in Cork, Ireland , d. 2/22/1941 in Detroit; Mary Goulden, b. abt. 1872 in Ireland, d. 4/1/1939 in Detroit).

From the tree it appears that the owner of the on-line tree is the grandson of Mary Margaret. I left a message for him using the Ancestry contact link but he has not responded (even though he has logged in within the past week). I have found his mailing address on ZabaSearch, so it looks like I will have to contact him by mail. I will do that after I have received a final response from the Military Records unit in St. Louis.

[Lferg]

Thanks Mike. I did some digging but didn't come up with anything.

[Mikeg]

Bump

Nothing new to report, I'm still waiting for a second response from the Military Personnel Records section. It has been more than two months since I sent them the additional information. Hopefully I will hear back from them soon regarding whether they were able to use the additional information to find something about William J. Murphy #18.

[Mikeg]

Yesterday's mail brought a response to the "NA Form 13075" (http://genealogy.grobbel.org/murphy/William_Murphy_No_18_Form_13075_redacted.jpg) which I submitted to the National Personnel Records Center back in November 2009.

Unfortunately, their letter says that they were unsuccessful in their additional search for the military personnel files of William J. Murphy (#18). They conclude that his file was destroyed in the 12 July 1973 fire.

However, they did inform me that they were able to find his Final Pay Voucher. I noticed that the subject line of their letter included his Service Number (2698698), which they apparently found on his Final Pay Voucher. So we do have one new piece of information! Since I think his Final Pay Voucher might contain some additional useful information, I will send away for a copy of it and report back when it arrives.

______________________________

Mail d'hier a apporté une réponse Ã. la forme NA 13075 »que j'ai présentée au Centre national des documents du personnel en Novembre 2009.

Malheureusement, leur lettre dit qu'ils ont échoué dans leur recherche supplémentaires pour les dossiers du personnel militaire de William J. Murphy (# 18). Ils concluent que son dossier a été détruit au cours des 12 Juillet 1973 le feu.

Toutefois, ils ne m'informent qu'ils ont réussi Ã. trouver son final payé par chèque. J'ai remarqué que la ligne d'objet de leur lettre comportait son numéro de matricule (2698698), qui ont apparemment trouvé sur son final Bon salariale. Donc, nous avons un nouvel élément d'information! Depuis que je pense que son final payé par chèque peut contenir des informations utiles, je vais renvoyer une copie de ce rapport lors de son arrivée.

[Mary Murphy]

Dear Mike,
Thank you very much for your answer. My daughter was hospitalised for 15 days. I have not can reply quickly.
I have looked at very often if there were messages on this site during several months.
I am happy now to read you.
Now we must wait other information (of Final Pay Voucher ?).
Thank you very much for your help.
Cordially.
Mary