Vegas City Center project

[Johnlodge]

A couple pictures I took of the endangered City Center project. I believe it is the largest construction project in the world at the moment. Work stoppages due to financing trouble with partners MGM-Mirage and Dubai World are constantly looming.

http://www.detroityes.com/mb/attachment.php?attachmentid=643&stc=1&d=1239989420

http://www.detroityes.com/mb/attachment.php?attachmentid=644&stc=1&d=1239989420

[Ray1936]

http://www.lvrj.com/news/breaking_news/43183912.html


MGM Mirage said this morning it had made the $70 million equity payment due on CityCenter, which included covering the $35 million share of the costs owed by its partner, Dubai World. A spokesman for the casino operator said another payment is due at the end of April.

[Ray1936]

In my view, it's a very ugly complex. It's on the site of the old Frontier and Stardust resorts.

However, except for the job factor, locals could care less. They do all their gambling in "locals" joints. It's rare that you see a local in a strip resort. Including me.

[Johnlodge]

http://www.lvrj.com/news/breaking_news/43183912.html


MGM Mirage said this morning it had made the $70 million equity payment due on CityCenter, which included covering the $35 million share of the costs owed by its partner, Dubai World. A spokesman for the casino operator said another payment is due at the end of April.

That's good. One of the days I was there, a payment deadline for about $250 million was made in the 11th hour as well. Sounds like it's a month-to-month thing. And if I remember right, MGM made that payment also complaining that Dubai World was not paying their share.

A friend of mine's work is owed over $10,000 by Dubai World. Not much compared to this project, but it's another example of them not meeting their financial obligations.

[Johnlodge]

In my view, it's a very ugly complex. It's on the site of the old Frontier and Stardust resorts.

However, except for the job factor, locals could care less. They do all their gambling in "locals" joints. It's rare that you see a local in a strip resort. Including me.

Is that what used to be there? In the time I've been going, I only remember that Boardwalk place, and some helicopter tours and t-shirt shops in that stretch of the strip.

http://brianhart.org/vegas05.jpg

[Ray1936]

Aw, shoot, you're right...I was thinking of the Trump complex on the site of the Frontier/Stardust. It's another biggie. City Center is where you said it is.

Open brain before engaging fingers.:rolleyes:

[Moetown]

In my view, it's a very ugly complex. It's on the site of the old Frontier and Stardust resorts.

However, except for the job factor, locals could care less. They do all their gambling in "locals" joints. It's rare that you see a local in a strip resort. Including me.



Citycenter is on the site of the old boardwalk/holiday inn.

The stardust was imploded by boyd's to build the echelon project, which they stopped building at a steel skeleton, when the economy tanked.

The frontier was sold by phil ruffin to a group of investors from israel for 1.2 billion just before the economy tanked. The frontier was imploded and the lot is empty, they intended to build a version of the plaza hotel in new york, which they also own.
The project is on hold.
Phil ruffin just bought treasure island from mgm last month for 775 million..

[Bobl]

Ray:
"...However, except for the job factor, locals could care less. They do all their gambling in "locals" joints. It's rare that you see a local in a strip resort. Including me..."

My favorite has been the Longhorn on Boulder Highway....great Prime Rib, fantastic breakfasts. Haven't visited in a couple years though, funds are low.

[Moetown]

Aw, shoot, you're right...I was thinking of the Trump complex on the site of the Frontier/Stardust. It's another biggie. City Center is where you said it is.

Open brain before engaging fingers.:rolleyes:



It looks like I am a slow typer..:D

[ccbatson]

Vegas maybe be particularly vulnerable to the current economy...hopefully (for them) they have some bright people working on solutions (partial hibernation?) to survive in the long run.

[Ray1936]

Ray:
"...However, except for the job factor, locals could care less. They do all their gambling in "locals" joints. It's rare that you see a local in a strip resort. Including me..."

My favorite has been the Longhorn on Boulder Highway....great Prime Rib, fantastic breakfasts. Haven't visited in a couple years though, funds are low.

Right you are, Bob. And when you ever get back, look across the street. The old Nevada Palace has been razed and replaced with a brand new complex, the Cannery. It is absolutely super, with max pay tables on all the machines. Restaurants are worth a visit there, also. They're kicking the dickens out of Sam's Town business.

[Bobl]

Thanks, Ray. My sons' hardcore band has played at the other Cannery. Too loud for you and I, I think.

[Moetown]

Thanks, Ray. My sons' hardcore band has played at the other Cannery. Too loud for you and I, I think.


That cannery is the buffet I eat at most when I am in vegas, by far the best, consistent quality in that price range. I have not been to vegas since the new cannery opened, but I hear they are taking away alot of business from the other casinos in the area.

For prime rib I always went to jerrys nugget for the 48oz :D in the coffee shop, a great deal when it was 20 bucks, now its around 30, so I dont go as much, I will have to try the longhorn next time.

[ccbatson]

It is my experience that gamblers are rarely happy regarding the actual gambling. They get a thrill from the rare wins, but always end up losing in the long run.

[Ray1936]

Thanks, Ray. My sons' hardcore band has played at the other Cannery. Too loud for you and I, I think.

Oh, I dunno, I usually turn up the volume a bit when I put the 1812 Overture on, or Beethoven's Fifth. Vivaldi gets turned down because of the excessive fiddles. :D

[Ray1936]

It is my experience that gamblers are rarely happy regarding the actual gambling. They get a thrill from the rare wins, but always end up losing in the long run.

Bats, I was very happy with this session.

http://www.detroityes.com/mb/attachment.php?attachmentid=693&stc=1&d=1240157936

[Bobl]

Ray, watch out! Casinos frown on photos!
We don't want you to be banned, do we?

[ccbatson]

No disagreement with what I pointed out..."thrilled with the rare wins".

[Ray1936]

No disagreement with what I pointed out..."thrilled with the rare wins".

Nah...we do this all the time. ;)

[Mikeg]

Last time I was in Vegas, after a lot of walking around on Feb. 1, 2008, me and the missus stopped for a cool one on the patio at Trader Vic's. We had a nice view of the construction going on across the street so while setting under our umbrella table, I took this shot of the City Center (left) and Cosmopolitan (right) projects.

732

[ccbatson]

Sure you do Ray.

Isn't that one of the opening lines at the Gamblers Anonymous meeting? "Hi, I am John Doe, and I win all the time and don't have a problem with gambling".

[Mikeg]

MGM Mirage, Dubai World and lenders reach pact to finish $8.5 billion CityCenter in Las Vegas (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/MGM-Mirage-Dubai-reach-pact-apf-15077506.html?.v=7)


Buried in the article is this Detroit-related tid-bit about MGM Mirage's latest attempts to avoid bankruptcy:
MGM Mirage said Wednesday that it had reached a separate agreement with its own lenders to waive payment obligations until June 30, extending a prior agreement by one and a half months. Murren told the AP that the 45-day extension gave the company "more than enough time" to come up with a comprehensive plan to fix its balance sheet. To get the extension, MGM Mirage paid back $100 million under its revolving credit facility and......
It also put up its MGM Grand Detroit casino as collateral for the rest of its credit facility, now about $6.6 billion.

[ccbatson]

It may be too little and too late. We will see.

[3WC]

According to today's WSJ, the developer/creditor agreement guarantees completion of the project even in the event of a MGM bankruptcy.

[ccbatson]

Well, then the parties concerned must be confident that it will be profitable for them.

[Moetown]

Well, then the parties concerned must be confident that it will be profitable for them.


They are so far along with it that they have to finish it. Mgm made a big mistake when they decided to build it all at once instead of in stages. Add in the numerous construction defects and deaths and whether a project of that size :confused: and beauty :D was ever needed in the first place.

[ccbatson]

Hmmm, if it is likely to lose them money, Finishing it may not make sense.

[Moetown]

Hmmm, if it is likely to lose them money, Finishing it may not make sense.


If mgm had a choice they would wait until the economy improves to finish it.
They would be in default if it was not finished and lose it to the banks.
The last thing vegas needs is 5000 more hotel rooms and 2500 more condos added to its inventory right now. Room rates just hit the lowest point since 1999 and keep dropping.

[ccbatson]

Understood, however, if they are facing insolvency as it is, and the project is unlikely to help them in the short run, wouldn't it make sense to give it up in the hopes of surviving?

[Moetown]

Understood, however, if they are facing insolvency as it is, and the project is unlikely to help them in the short run, wouldn't it make sense to give it up in the hopes of surviving?


Its not up to just mgm anymore because they sold half of the project to dubai world.
On top of that they just put mgm detroit up as collateral, so they would lose that.

Its 2 billion over budget, about 7 billion spent so far with 2 billion needed to finish.
They have all the cash needed to finish it now, but will have to reorganize in bankruptcy later this year, they just have too much debt coming due.

Mgm will have a lot of company in bankruptcy, as almost all the major casinos except wynn and maybe boyds are teetering on the edge
3 of the hotels are supposed to open in the fall.

[ccbatson]

Wow, I didn't realize that. It sounds like MGM is stuck in a pickle that could easily destroy them.

[Bobl]

According to Zillow.com, 67.2 percent of Las Vegas-area homeowners were "underwater" on their mortgages during the first quarter of 2009. The Reno area had a 48.5 percent negative equity rate.
Things are, indeed, bad all over.

[ccbatson]

Thanks too the CRA/Carter/Clinton/Freddie and Fannie/Frank/Dodd/Reed/Shumer.

[Detroit Stylin]

Thanks too the CRA/Carter/Clinton/Freddie and Fannie/Frank/Dodd/Reed/Shumer.


Batty want a cracker....SQUACK!!!!!

[ccbatson]

It took down the mortgage industry, then the finance and insurance side fell...leaving little, or no capital for projects, and the collapse of the economy in general.

[ccbatson]

You are in the minority of one on this item Slim...Ignorance is bliss for you I suppose...enjoy.

[rb336]

You are in the minority of one on this item Slim...Ignorance is bliss for you I suppose...enjoy.

self-delusion, it seems, is bliss for you, Bats.

Why is it you simmply can not accept facts? oh yeah -- facts prove the falacy of your dogma.

1) fannie/freddie had NOTHING to do with the collapse of the Vegas housing market, as they were barely in that maket (this was one of, if not THE most speculative housing markets around. investors overdeveloped, nuff said. common sense, really.) most of the home loans were way above what fannnie/freddie do
2) the collapse of City Center had nothing to do with fannie/freddie and much to do with the collapse of the speculative market in fossil fuels

[DetroitDad]

You're kind of splitting hairs? Wasn't it all tied together?

[ccbatson]

Myopic is a generous response to your apparent grasp of the situation. The whole mortgage and housing sector collapsed because of Freddie and Fannie bringing down the rest of the economy via the fraudulent derivative investments and a cascade of catastrophes. DOes it matter that Freddie and Fannie were less penetrant in Las Vegas real estate when the world was collapsing around them?

[rb336]

Myopic is a generous response to your apparent grasp of the situation. The whole mortgage and housing sector collapsed because of Freddie and Fannie bringing down the rest of the economy via the fraudulent derivative investments and a cascade of catastrophes. DOes it matter that Freddie and Fannie were less penetrant in Las Vegas real estate when the world was collapsing around them?

Bats, have you ever READ any of the over 90% of economists that totally dismiss the fannie/freddie muth?

[ccbatson]

Yes....just like the global warming myth...consensus (under duress, and from biased sources) is not science, or fact.

Look at the 10% next time.

[mjs]

I can see where someone who supports the minority party would support the minority on everything else.

[Gistok]

You are in the minority of one on this item Slim...Ignorance is bliss for you I suppose...enjoy.

... and what does that say about you in regards to the last 8 years under Bush when this fiasco started brewing?

Rip Van Batson?

[ccbatson]

Far longer than 8 years ago slim...try at least 30...back to Carter. Really the root lies in the terms of FDR and Johnson.

[rb336]

Yes....just like the global warming myth...consensus (under duress, and from biased sources) is not science, or fact.

Look at the 10% next time.


ah, bats, your total ignorance of pretty much anything is always so fun to watch

[ccbatson]

Rb...too far removed from the current discussion...you need to give more detail to be understood (ie, a post number for reference).

[DetroitDad]

MGM Resorts wants to demolish part of it's City Center project.

http://www.lvrj.com/business/mgm-resorts-targets-harmon-hotel-for-demolition-107681193.html

This project really reminds me of Bloomfield Park (http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthread.php?8071-Bloomfield-Park-What-were-they-thinking).