2010 Detroit Lions

[smogboy]

The New Orleans Saints have been crowned as the Super Bowl champs. Congratulations to a worthy champion and kudos to the people of New Orleans who stuck it out and who've been through hell and back- not just with their team but with the Katrina disaster.

But even now in the off-season, our Detroit Lions have been garnering some buzz especially with the upcoming draft. Is it going to be McCoy or Okung with the first pick? Are we fans going to have another "Brandon Pettigrew WHO?" moments in this year's draft?

It also looks as though they're trying to come up with the Eraser by having WR Donte' Stallworth work out now. They've also signed running back DeDe Dorsey- the MVP in the UFL playoffs? We're getting players from the Las Vegas Locomotives now?

Even in the off season, our semi- sad sack Honolulu Blue & Silver are making some noise.

Again, a lot of stuff to discuss. So fellow DYes folks- please do.

[firstandten]

smogboy, I did a small bit of research and I now know why our Lions aren't going anywhere,anytime soon. Good teams can find diamonds in the rough and develop them in the later rounds or FA's. Here's an example of what I'm talking about.

These guys are starters on there teams and they are not from Div I schools.

Champion- New Orleans Saints

Marques Colston - Hofstra D-1AA
Jermon Bushrod- Towson D-1AA
Jahri Evans- Bloomsburg D-11

Indy Colts

Pierre Garcon - Mount Union D-111 WOW !!!
Antoine Bethea - Howard D-1AA
Robert Mathis - Alabama A&M D-1AA
Gijon Robinson - Missouri Western State D-11

Until the Lions get scouts that can find these types of players they aren't going to a playoff game much less the Super Bowl anytime soon

[smogboy]

I couldn't agree more firstandten!

One expects their early high end draft picks to succeed but it's truly the later round picks that can carry a team. The examples you sited are dead-on as to the luck/ skill of these teams and their scouting staffs (kind of reminds me of how the Red Wings find all of these obscure European players). Millen really stunk the joint up with his selections the last few years- even his high end picks couldn't make the team much less his later round picks. We can only hope that Mayhew/ Lewand/ Schwartz can do a much better job in this year's draft.

But getting back to finding those diamonds in the rough and developing them- we really really need to do a MUCH better job at finding those players. Not only do they become immensely valuable skill wise to your team, they offer depth and in this day and age, salary cap relief. I did some quick number crunching here for the players you mentioned:

New Orleans
Marques Colston - $7,453,360
Jermon Bushrod- $375,640
Jahri Evans- $450,640

Indianapolis Colts
Pierre Garcon - $366,600
Antoine Bethea - $450,280
Robert Mathis - $4,410,000
Gijon Robinson - $300,760

With the exception of Robert Mathis, the rest of those guys are DIRT cheap and will probably remain loyal as all sin to the team that gave them a start and a shot at the Super Bowl.

We can only hope that things will turn and we can have this conversation years from now about our team's diamonds in the rough.

[kenp]

Gerald McCoy has gotten a lot of positve press lately. Some are saying he may be the top choice in the draft now ahead of Suh. I gotta think this only makes our position better, either way we are getting a darn good d-lineman,

[smogboy]

Gerald McCoy has gotten a lot of positve press lately. Some are saying he may be the top choice in the draft now ahead of Suh. I gotta think this only makes our position better, either way we are getting a darn good d-lineman,

I agree. There seems to be a lot of hype now over McCoy, just like there was a few months back for Suh. I think a lot will be known after the combines and workouts. I can't see Detroit losing out with the either one. And depending on how desperate the Rams are up for a QB, the workouts for Bradford and Clausen could force their hand and give Detroit a choice of Suh, McCoy or even Berry.

[Big Dog]

We will know a lot, after the season gets underway.

[sirrealone]

Eric Berry would make no sense. While I can't argue with his talent, the only way that a pairing of him and Delmas would live up to their true potential would be if the line and the corners were able to do their job effectively. Without those upgrades, though, having a top notch safety unit doesn't pack the punch that it could.

If they stay at number two, I'd rather see them take one of the DTs (Suh, McCoy). My ideal prospect would be to trade down a few spots where they could still consider a lineman depending who's available, but that would open consideration to a corner as well (which would then leave the d-line to be addressed in the second or third round where they'll have hopefully added an additional pick or two from having traded down).

[kenp]

Gotta take advantage of d-lineman thats going to contribute right away that is the quality of those two.
Trading the pick for a couple of picks does make sense with our lack of overall talent. If somebody is really hot after one of those 2 lineman then get greedy and demand there first, second and third.
Millan was good at trading picks and getting more picks. However he then went out and drafted guys that made no sense.

[sirrealone]

I've always said that the reason Millen was so bad at the draft is that he spent so much time maneuvering around the draft board and making trades that he ran out of time to research the actual picks.

I think a first, second, and third is a lot to expect unless they're moving out of the top eight. Even then, my guess is that one of the 'extra' picks would probably be a 2011 pick, as I doubt many teams are going to want to be locked out of the second and third round in what is considered a very deep draft. I'd realistically see them moving down no lower than six, and netting a second round pick and a sixth or seventh round pick, or a 2011 5th rounder.

[Big Dog]

Folks, I going out on a limb here. I predict 4 wins total for the lions in 2010. I believe they were worse last year than the 0 -16 season. 4 is my prediction for the next season. Save this post.....

[Thruster315]

Folks, I going out on a limb here. I predict 4 wins total for the lions in 2010. I believe they were worse last year than the 0 -16 season. 4 is my prediction for the next season. Save this post.....

How are you even basing this prediction? And especially if you say this team is worse than the 0-16 team. You can't even point to four victories on the schedule because the NFL schedule isn't even out yet! These sort of ill informed predictions might as well be done by randomly rolling dice. Yes, you've gone "out on a limb" to make this prediction but there isn't much of a "tree underneath it" either.

[Big Dog]

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut, once in a while. The lions are under a big walnut tree. They got to win some games, sometime.

[Thruster315]

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut, once in a while. The lions are under a big walnut tree. They got to win some games, sometime.

So what nuts are you talking about? Walnuts too? We've all been sitting under the same dang collective tree for ages and growing moss already. You talk the talk but can hardly walk the walk here. There's plenty of chatter but do you even know any of the Lions projected moves, trades, draft choices or even the team at all? Seriously if you were to call into any of the local shows on the radio and just said "Even a blind squirrel finds a nut, once in a while. The lions are under a big walnut tree. They got to win some games, sometime." I'm sure the host(s) would ask for evidence to back this up.

Folks like sirrealone, kenp, smogboy, and firstandten have an opinion (not that we have to agree with them) but they can back it up. All I'm asking for respectfully is for the evidence, facts, or even gut calls as to why you make this supposition. I won't guarantee that I'll agree with you or support you but I just might if given something more than a fortune cookie's worth of verse.

[smogboy]

I'd like to see what Mayhew/ Lewand will do in free agency the next few weeks. Once they start targeting and obtaining some of those pieces, it could start setting up for their picks in the draft. Are the Lions going after Kyle Vanden Bosch? Will there be a trade for Antonio Cromartie? Will there be a chance of obtaining Anquan Boldin for a third round draft pick?

And if we get these people in free agency and/or by trading for them, how is this going to affect their selections in the upcoming draft? Will Mayhew trade the number two pick away to get more picks? Really there isn't much news to talk about now because it's all speculative at best and Martin Mayhew is staying mum- which I kind of like. I don't foresee Mayhew saying much until any deal is done. We fans can speculate all we want, but he's not going to show his hand until the trigger is pulled. And even if there is going to be a swap at the day of the draft, I can see him stone cold poker faced at the table not flinching until he's heard every last offer before he makes a move. But as of this very moment, our Lions are no better nor are they any worse than they were the very last day of the season.

[smogboy]

Folks like sirrealone, kenp, smogboy, and firstandten have an opinion (not that we have to agree with them) but they can back it up.

I'm curious as to what you might find objectionable or up for debate now.

[Big Dog]

Thruster, Your too serious about a terrible organization and that is your right, and I respect it. I just look at the lions past as an indicator of the lions future. They haven't given me any surprises, in many, many years. Are you new here in Detroit?

[Thruster315]

Thruster, Your too serious about a terrible organization and that is your right, and I respect it. I just look at the lions past as an indicator of the lions future. They haven't given me any surprises, in many, many years. Are you new here in Detroit?

Lifelong Detroiter here and have followed the team for years. I can debate this team, its ownership, their record, and their numbers all day long if you want. From the depth of your Lions' observations, are you sure you're not new to the Lions team??:confused::confused::confused:

[Thruster315]

Will there be a trade for Antonio Cromartie?

Scratch that one if you believe the Detroit News reports-
http://www.detnews.com/article/20100302/SPORTS0101/3020374/Reports--Lions-unlikely-to-make-deal-for-Antonio-Cromartie

The straight up for a fourth or fifth rounder might not have been bad but they also wanted Maurice Morris who seemed like the more explosive back after Kevin Smith went on the DL last year.

[sirrealone]

The straight up for a fourth or fifth rounder might not have been bad but they also wanted Maurice Morris who seemed like the more explosive back after Kevin Smith went on the DL last year.

I can't imagine Maurice Morris was the dealbreaker in this trade. Even if they were to trade Morris and a pick, that would scrub a starting CB off the list, which would make taking a RB in the second or third a more justifiable strategy. At that point, you could sign someone just as good if not better than Morris, wait for Smith to come back plus the new rookie (I wouldn't mind seeing LeGarrette Blount in the third) and you'd be upgraded from 2009.

I would venture to guess that the draft pick requested was probably more of a sticking point, if in fact this deal is dead. I read that one possibility here was that SD wanted either Detroit's fourth or fifth (which is practically a fourth anyways), where Detroit maybe didn't want to part with anything higher than the fifth rounder that they obtained from Denver. They most likely think that they can get good value from the fourth or early fifth round pick, and since Cromartie has one year on his deal, that might not be worth it to Mayhew.

[Thruster315]

I can't imagine Maurice Morris was the dealbreaker in this trade. Even if they were to trade Morris and a pick, that would scrub a starting CB off the list, which would make taking a RB in the second or third a more justifiable strategy. At that point, you could sign someone just as good if not better than Morris, wait for Smith to come back plus the new rookie (I wouldn't mind seeing LeGarrette Blount in the third) and you'd be upgraded from 2009.

I would venture to guess that the draft pick requested was probably more of a sticking point, if in fact this deal is dead. I read that one possibility here was that SD wanted either Detroit's fourth or fifth (which is practically a fourth anyways), where Detroit maybe didn't want to part with anything higher than the fifth rounder that they obtained from Denver. They most likely think that they can get good value from the fourth or early fifth round pick, and since Cromartie has one year on his deal, that might not be worth it to Mayhew.

It very well could have been what San Diego valued Cromartie at and what Detroit's perception of his value. Cromartie was once a Pro Bowler and I'm sure SD wants to tout that he still has it in him and Detroit's bound to talk about the declining productivity since then. Knowing of his multiple kids with multiple women away from the game haven't exactly helped his character. The $25,000 in missed child support also signals some character issues to which the Lions will probably bring up in negotiations as well.

San Diego obviously values Morris as he's a known commodity and could start immediately in replacement of Tomlinson. I'm sure both sides talk up the value of what they have to offer and respectfully talk down the value of what's being shown to them.

[kenp]

I wouldnt touch Cromartie if I were the Lions. The Chargers dont want him because of his lack of effort in the playoffs. He's injury prown, loosing he skills plus he cant even read and is considerd mildly retarded.

[Big Dog]

Those may be perfect reasons for the lions to go after him, too me.

[Big Dog]

I really want them to win a lot of games, but I don't think they will. :):)

[smogboy]

I wouldnt touch Cromartie if I were the Lions. The Chargers dont want him because of his lack of effort in the playoffs. He's injury prown, loosing he skills plus he cant even read and is considerd mildly retarded.

I wonder if Cromartie would be worth it on a disciplinary front. Detroit's got a relatively young team and do we need a chemistry issue erupting in the locker room? Does Schwartz want to deal with this guy? It makes me wonder if Jim Schwartz might've had a hand in nixing the deal to spare any drama in the locker room. It's tough enough coaching and motivating an NFL team already. Does he need to play disciplinarian on top of it?

Granted Cromartie will want to shine in this his contract year, but is he worth the headache to the coaches and his influence on the younger players? Balance that with what we could conceivably be giving up (fourth round draft pick and Morris), he just might not be worth it. Seeing as how deep this draft is, our fourth round could be a pretty good pick. Martin Mayhew ended up with Sammie Lee Hill last year in the fourth and he did alright his rookie year.

It's great to explore options out there for good players but some come with far too much baggage and hassle. Cromartie very well could be one of those players.

[Big Dog]

smogboy, Do you think the team would ever consider TO. ?, to team up with CJ.

[firstandten]

smogboy, Do you think the team would ever consider TO. ?, to team up with CJ.

Let me take a crack at that. BD the short and long answer is NO! The Lions aren't going to let a head case like TO give Stafford any more challenges than he already has.They can find that second receiver to go along with CJ either in the draft or as a FA

[sirrealone]

Interesting read in the Bleacher Report this morning stating that if the Bears sign Julius Peppers, that could make the Lions re-consider their pick and maybe consider an offensive tackle, since Peppers has had Backus' number since forever.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/356238-julius-peppers-to-chicago-could-change-detroit-lions-draft-strategy

I personally don't put a lot of weight into this one. I think Mayhew/Schwartz have shown that the draft strategy is firm and they're not going to be pushed into passing over a more talented player.

I still believe that, for this year anyways, adding a solid left guard is the best approach to shoring up the offensive line and could cause Peppers to be less disruptive when the Bears-Lions meet (assuming he signs there). When the left guard failed his assignment, which was more often than not in 2009, that puts extra pressure on Backus and the whole side collapses. Adding a solid left guard will not only make that position better, but it will improve Backus' play as well.

I also agree that T.O. probably wouldn't get very much consideration here. First, he didn't show that he still has it for most of the season, so would he even be an upgrade over Bryant Johnson at this point? Second, I think Schwartz & Co. would selectively bring in veterans at key positions but with the intent that their secondary job would be to mentor the young guys. No way does T.O. come anywhere near being able to do that.

[kenp]

Of course we need all kinds of help on the O-line and this includes Backus. Most players have had Backus's "number". We shouldnt use the 2nd pick on o-lineman. Maybe if we trade the 2nd pick for a later pick.

[smogboy]

Let me take a crack at that. BD the short and long answer is NO! The Lions aren't going to let a head case like TO give Stafford any more challenges than he already has.They can find that second receiver to go along with CJ either in the draft or as a FA

Thanks for the back up there, firstandten. I couldn't agree more about saying NO to TO. I'm not so sure I would've wanted him the Honolulu Blue & Silver in his prime much less in his current state to decline. This is one guy that has never understood the concept of team and has always been about himself. He's practically thrown every QB that he's played with (Garcia, McNabb, & Romo) under the bus. Neither Stafford nor do the Lions need this sort of distraction. No way, no how.

[smogboy]

Interesting read in the Bleacher Report this morning stating that if the Bears sign Julius Peppers, that could make the Lions re-consider their pick and maybe consider an offensive tackle, since Peppers has had Backus' number since forever.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/356238-julius-peppers-to-chicago-could-change-detroit-lions-draft-strategy

I personally don't put a lot of weight into this one. I think Mayhew/Schwartz have shown that the draft strategy is firm and they're not going to be pushed into passing over a more talented player.

I don't see the Lions changing up their draft strategy just to offset the addition of one player on a division rival. I can see them possibly revamping their offensive strategy to offset the rush of Peppers but that could be as easy as having someone in the backfield come up, or add an additional tight end on that side to help Backus. Even simpler things like involving more draw plays, rolling the QB out to the right, two step drops, and quicker release plays can alleviate this. There are plenty of ways to minimize the impact of one explosive player on the opposite team.

[smogboy]

Corey Williams huh?
http://www.detnews.com/article/20100305/SPORTS0101/3050394/1361/Lions-are-close-to-trade-for-defensive-tackle-Corey-Williams

While he's not Kyle Vanden Bosch, pairing him up with a Suh or a McCoy could be interesting on the front four.

[kenp]

Williams can help, I would take him for a 5th round pick.
I see Cromartie was traded to the Jets for a 3rd round pick.

[Thruster315]

Vanden Bosch signed for four years.

http://www.freep.com/article/20100305/SPORTS01/100305029/1319/Lions-Vanden-Bosch-reach-4-year-deal

I like how aggressive the Lions have been.

[kenp]

I just went in the Lions site to read about Vanden Bosch, and see Corey Williams was offically traded to the Lions. So now we have both Vanden Bosch and Williams. To me it looks like we are now in a position to trade down.

[smogboy]

http://www.detnews.com/article/20100305/SPORTS0101/3050396/Lions-land-DE-Kyle-Vanden-Bosch--WR-Nate-Burleson

Nate Burleson signed for a five-year, $25 million deal, including $11 million guaranteed deal too. Hopefully he's going to be the "eraser" that will help ease Calvin Johnson's load. Williams & Vanden Bosch too? Talk about being active and wanting to jump into free agency!

I'm not enthralled with the length of the contracts but it's nice to see the team being so pro-active. Hopefully these players work out well in the long run. Stylistically it's also nice to see Schwartz being a lot more cordial and friendly when it comes to courting these free agents.

And kenp, I'm not sure if the Lions will jump at a trade down but they will obviously be more willing to entertain the thought now. If there aren't any decent offers, I'm sure they'll still use it. Having a young buck like Suh or McCoy can still be more than viable especially if they're planning for the long term.

All and all pretty exciting stuff for this team. It might not make them a playoff team just yet but this- on the surface definitely looks positive.

[d.mcc]

Having Vanden Bosch, Suh, Williams, and an improving Hill/Avril on the front line would NOT be bad, gives our linebackers (Peterson, Sims, Levy) time to swarm and find the ball, and free's up our Safeties and DB's from being blocked downfield.

Some very good moves today. This is the Lions, right?

[Big Dog]

This is the most aggressive, the lions have been in years. This could be a good thing.

[smogboy]

I was in traffic today and heard the Vanden Bosch interview on WDFN today and he sounds like a pretty good pick up. What really impressed me was what he had to say about Jim Schwartz. He said that Schwartz was at his house one hour before Vanden Bosch could sign on the dotted line. Schwartz impressed upon him his philosophy, the team goals and what really got me was how Schwartz talked up our area to young parents like the Vanden Bosches. He told them of the schools that they could send their kids to, the community, the family atmosphere, and about the loyal fan base here.

It was to the point where Vanden Bosch didn't even want to pick up his cell phone and listen to other offers and/ or to his agent. It must've been one heckuva pitch! So bravo to Jim Schwartz for targeting who he thinks will be an impact player immediately, going after him and more importantly, landing him. Usually guys of this caliber will at least digest the offer and stew on it for a little bit.

And while we malign the old man Ford for being a total irrelevant owner, I'm sure he's got to be commended at least a little bit for loosening up his wallet this cap free season to acquire some key players. He's lots of things (stubborn, stand-offish, dopey, delusional, etc.) but today old man Ford wasn't cheap nor timid about letting his football men go out and get the necessary people to win.

[smogboy]

Having Vanden Bosch, Suh, Williams, and an improving Hill/Avril on the front line would NOT be bad, gives our linebackers (Peterson, Sims, Levy) time to swarm and find the ball, and free's up our Safeties and DB's from being blocked downfield.

Some very good moves today. This is the Lions, right?

Let's see how the linebacker situation plays out. Peterson still wants a boatload of money, Sims still could be trade bait and the only sure thing in the LB corps is Levy. Has anyone heard word about re-signing Larry Foote yet? That front's gone frigid as of late.

[Thruster315]

Having Vanden Bosch, Suh, Williams, and an improving Hill/Avril on the front line would NOT be bad, gives our linebackers (Peterson, Sims, Levy) time to swarm and find the ball, and free's up our Safeties and DB's from being blocked downfield.

Some very good moves today. This is the Lions, right?

If there was a place for the Lions defense to get aggressive I'm glad to see it happening in the trenches. They can do without a shut down corner or safety if they can still apply heat on the opposing team's quarterback. Get after that QB! Going at the ball has always been a good idea. Putting pressure on the other team's quarterback and invading their backfield is never a bad thing. Our linebacking group isn't bad even if Peterson decides not to re-sign with the Lions. I'm impressed with the free agency signings.

Free agency doesn't solve everything though. It can be a very good stop gap measure and we still need to build from within the draft. Get Suh now.

[kenp]

We have put ourselves in a win win situation. If we keep our pick then we are going to have one of the two d-lineman. Thats makes our line very solid. If we get a great deal on moving down and get more picks its a positive as well because d-line isnt as important now.
We need to keep Foote and continue our attempt to be strong at linebacker.
I think we paid to much for the receiver, but its not my money, hopefully it doesnt hurt our cap space.
Now we need corners, o-lineman and a running back.

[GOAT]

I don't think the ol drunk bastard deserves any credit! He has always been loose with wallet whenever it suited him (ie. liked the player or coach or President a lot).

That being said the free agent pick ups were good.

What I am fretting about it the lack of protection for our QB. Yes our defence stinks but the Lions have committed $42 million to one position. Shouldn't they try somewhat to protect that investment?

I say draft or sign only on the lines of BOTH sides of the ball and nothing more.

[GOAT]

Kenp, the corners are not needed if you have great pass rushers. You can get by with mediocre corners because the pass rushers should keep the QB off of his game.

RB's are a dime a dozen in the NFL. I am with you onthe )-line though. Why are the Lions ignoring that wet paper protection?

[d.mcc]

Does anyone think part of the pitch to Vanden Bosch was that the Lions were about to draft a monster DT who would free him up to get to the QB like he did when he had Haynesworth next to him?

[firstandten]

Good move, Lions, a good start!

I've always felt you build a team from the inside out. Take care of those positions that play with one hand in the dirt first then go from there. If you can put pressure on the QB even so-so corners will look good.

Work on that O-line as well. One of the reasons Peyton Manning is such a great QB is that most games his uniform is one of the cleanest you 'll see on the field.

[smogboy]

I don't think the ol drunk bastard deserves any credit! He has always been loose with wallet whenever it suited him (ie. liked the player or coach or President a lot).

That being said the free agent pick ups were good.

Now would you have been one of those irate fans that would've said Ford was too cheap if we didn't go out and make a splash in free agency as well? If he deserves blame for all of his mistakes (and there are plenty of them), then he also needs to at least have some credit for the good that he does. You can't slam the old man in one sentence and then say the free agents are a good pick up without being consistent now. Be fair to the old coot.

The team has solved a few of their needs with these pick-ups. By no means are they done. I like what they've done in this salary cap free year and from the looks of things, the contracts have also been front loaded to ease the burden when the cap is back on in the future. Also I see this team having to over pay to get free agents to come here. Jim Schwartz had to make a personal pitch to Vanden Bosch. Linehan had to make a personal plea for Burleson. We're not a destination for players to come to just yet; for us fans to expect that to happen is just not realistic. Seeing our professional level coaches go out and personally recruit like college coaches shows a little bit their desperation (or is it their smarts?) to build this team. Not only is it going to take old man Ford reaching deeper into his wallet, there has to be some proof that this team is on its way to winning. I can't see players and their agents craving to come here especially after the last decade's free fall decline under Millen's rule. There has to be some incentives for these players to want to come here besides money; whatever Schwartz said obviously got Vanden Bosch here. Whatever Linehan said obviously worked too. So hopefully the momentum of having made somewhat of a splash (not as momentous, desperate or risky as the Chicago Bears) will also attract some others to come here- ala. Pudge Rodriguez going to the Tigers after winning the World Series.

Now obviously we still hold a huge trump card in the second overall pick. I'm of the contention we use it as opposed to trading it away, not unless we can get some absolute amazing deal. And we don't discuss that trade down up until the waning seconds up at the draft board. I think Mayhew/ Lewand would be best served to hear all of the offers for that draft pick before they even make that choice. And as much as I hated finishing so miserably to "earn" this second overall pick- it's a solid tool to use to further the team. This system is made so mediocre teams like ours can climb out of the cellar - IF used properly. Under half ass leadership like Millen, he took it as an extension of his ego and wanting to make a splash. He was more about gloss than substance when it came to draft picks; all one has to do is look at how many wide receivers he took with his first pick.

What I'd like to see them do is use the second pick and take Suh or McCoy- the best one available, to help out the defensive line. d.mcc- I think you might be onto something there that a promise to draft a fellow defensive monster for Vanden Bosch to play alongside would be a huge incentive. Having selected offensive players highly in last year's draft, I wouldn't have a problem addressing the defensive side of things this year. That's not to say that third round and beyond, they shouldn't address the offense either. They do need help on the offensive line; re-signing a versatile and aging Jon Jansen is not going to solve what ails them. Also signing a decent running back (either free agency or draft) will also help to protect Stafford. Hopefully he can block a little as well as carry the ball up the gut for an explosive run; that's just one of the ways to keep the other team's defense from just pinning their ears back and taking a full run for our QB on 3rd and longs.

But it is nice to see our team have some off season excitement and have some lively discussion about how this team is slowly and hopefully puling themselves out of mediocrity.

[jiminnm]

And while we malign the old man Ford for being a total irrelevant owner, I'm sure he's got to be commended at least a little bit for loosening up his wallet this cap free season to acquire some key players. He's lots of things (stubborn, stand-offish, dopey, delusional, etc.) but today old man Ford wasn't cheap nor timid about letting his football men go out and get the necessary people to win.

I must admit that when I read about these signings, my first thought (albeit cynical) was that WCF was going to try to rack up a few wins prior to putting the team up for sale.

That said, smogboy, I hope you're right. After all, hope is all I've ever gotten from the Lions in the 45 or so years since I went to my first Lions' game and threw snowballs at Harry Gilmer (one of many, many lousy coaches).

[smogboy]

I must admit that when I read about these signings, my first thought (albeit cynical) was that WCF was going to try to rack up a few wins prior to putting the team up for sale.

That said, smogboy, I hope you're right. After all, hope is all I've ever gotten from the Lions in the 45 or so years since I went to my first Lions' game and threw snowballs at Harry Gilmer (one of many, many lousy coaches).

jiminnm, if the old guy wants to put a few Ws in the column, who are we fans to complain? That's what we hope for every Sunday! And if he wants to sell this team, I think there are enough fans out there that would celebrate that as well. Personally I'd prefer that he just step to one side and let his son, who seems to have a little more business acumen and caring for this team run the works. I would sure as heck hate to see this team sold off to someone that didn't care about it, who just wants to turn it into their personal cash cow and God forbid move it out to Los Angeles. The other worst case scenario is that he sells it to an owner that is worse off than he is (hard to believe at times) such as an Al Davis or a Daniel Snyder type.

As true fans, we have to stay eternally optimistic; if not I guess we wouldn't be called fans.

BTW- did any of your snowballs ever hit their mark with Harry Gilmer?

[sirrealone]

The Burleson signing was good in my eyes because it improved two positions at once. You improved your number two WR spot by adding Burleson, but it also improved the number three WR spot. Bryant Johnson, as terrible as he looked, was simply not suited to be a number two guy, but I think he's shown in the past that he can be a capable number three WR, and last I looked, we really didn't have anything much besides Calvin. I'm fine with the tandem of Calvin-Burleson-Bryant as the top three guys.

They look like they're doing some nice things with the D-line and I like that. They basically swapped out an old and pretty much ineffective Grady Jackson for a younger, speedier Corey Williams without having to give much up in the way. Vanden Bosch was a nice addition, and if they can indeed add Suh, they'll have a nice front four and some good rotational depth, which is something that they've been lacking for the last decade.

I still maintain that the most effective way to address the offensive line is to try to add a starting left guard in the second or third round. I've cursed Backus more times than I care to remember over the past few years, but if Suh is there, I just don't see how a tackle can be justified at the number two pick. They're saying it's a weak year for offensive tackles. I'd much rather the Lions get the cream of the crop at a deeper position (like Suh) than a guy who has had his value pushed up (Okung) because the field below him is weak.

[smogboy]

Great observations sirrealone.

I also like the Burleson signing as well. I like the fact that he can stretch the field vertically like Calvin Johnson can. I never felt comfortable with how Dennis Northcutt or Bryant Johnson played more like slot receivers. They never seemed to explode off the line and their lack of productivity didn't help sway anyone's opinion. Burleson might also help out with the punt & kick returns so that's just another dimension he could bring to the table. Whether Schwartz & Company want to "save" him and only use Burleson for wide receiver will be up to them.

Another aspect of the Burleson signing that could also be that he helps out the offensive line. Couple his speed and Stafford's quick release might give our less than sterling offensive line a fighting chance to move the ball. But then that really makes the team one dimensional in relying so heavily on Stafford's arm. I would love to see our offensive line have a push and even have a solid viable running threat. I can't see the team picking up an O lineman anytime prior to fifth round and even then, they'll probably be a development project this year. Any chance of us getting a stud offensive lineman that could start on day one probably won't happen until the year 2011.

This team is still one massive work in progress. And the investments that the team has made in free agency this year haven't been for older veterans; they're relatively young or in their prime. The Lions are no longer signing veterans who are in the twilights of the career but I still wouldn't mind seeing a Larry Foote signing to help with the leadership & locker room attitude of this young team.

[gnome]

Great insights guys. Sure wish, Blksoul X would sign in and unpack all these moves. His look at our team sports were always interesting and usually correct.

Of these recent moves, I haven't seen a clinker yet. I think part of the problem with the offensive line could be eased with Burleson running the lanes. It's tough throwing the ball when everyone is covered ... not saying our O line doesn't define chickenshit, just saying that our young QB is still learning to "see" and Burleson should help in that regard.

With Shwartz growing up on the defensive side of the ball, it's only natural he beefed up the D with his Vanden Bosh and Williams. Suh would be a great addition and could prove to be a long term anchor. I wonder if Sammie Hill will fit with the new guys. I thought both Hill and Suh and Williams all played the same position, but maybe you guys can straighten me out

[smogboy]

With Shwartz growing up on the defensive side of the ball, it's only natural he beefed up the D with his Vanden Bosh and Williams. Suh would be a great addition and could prove to be a long term anchor. I wonder if Sammie Hill will fit with the new guys. I thought both Hill and Suh and Williams all played the same position, but maybe you guys can straighten me out

IF the Lions get the chance to draft Suh, I would almost envision seeing the defensive front four looking like:

Suh at left end, Corey Williams at left tackle, Sammie Lee Hill at right tackle, and Vanden Bosch at right end.

Williams and Hill would be the beef in the middle, can play well against any interior runs and the speed of Vanden Bosch & Suh on the outside would be pretty deadly. As far as back-ups at any of those positions it's going to be Jason Hunter & Cliff Avril on the left side where both of them developed pretty nicely last year. Andre Fluellen & Landon Cohen would be the tackle replacements. Turk McBride and maybe the re-signing of Jared DeVries would be the depth on the right side of the line. Seeing as how Grady Jackson got released a few days ago and the injury prone DeWayne White got let go today, our line got progressively younger although not any less potent.

Again, all of this speculation is still based upon the Lions keeping the number two pick and acquiring Suh. I've also heard how explosive McCoy is off of the line too and either one of those would fit in very nicely with this bunch.

[smogboy]

Two new corners in the fold now.

http://www.freep.com/article/20100308/SPORTS01/100308048/1319/Lions-sign-CB-Wade-trade-for-Falcons-CB-Houston

Jonathan Wade and Chris Houston were both starters for their previous teams and only a paltry 25 years old. Wade came here as a free agent signing and Chris Houston is here because we gave up a 6th round pick and we swap out fifth round picks. I'm not saying that these were upgrades from last year's ever changing cornerbacks but we can hope. Jonathan Wade does have some flexibility in the sense that he can play either side CB and be the nickel back if need be. Also if we've upgraded the defensive line and they can put some heat on the opposing team's QB, their jobs should be a little easier.

So what I see Mayhew/ Lewand doing now is utilizing the draft to obtain young players in a very strategic way. We've yet to technically lose a draft pick (the one we did give up for the Corey Williams trade was a 5th rounder we had gotten from Denver) and yet we pick up some known commodities. It's aggressive and ballsy- something Millen and his Pennsylvania sized ego would've never do.

[Thruster315]

Jake Delhomme or Daunte Culpepper for Stafford's back-up QB?

I'm surprised that this hasn't been addressed by Jim Schwartz or people on this forum yet.

[sirrealone]

I wonder if Sammie Hill will fit with the new guys. I thought both Hill and Suh and Williams all played the same position, but maybe you guys can straighten me out

I have to laugh. Not at you, gnome, but just in general because of how conditioned we have become at having a bad team, and going along with that, not having any recollection of what it is to have....depth. That's what this would give us. Instead of looking at only the four guys that would be listed as the starters, you would actually have depth at the defensive line level. This is key to any legit defense. You want to be able to swap guys in and out for the purpose of having fresh legs on the field. You want to be able to swap guys in and out based on what Cunningham feels are passing or running situations.

Simply put, I don't think it's possible to have too much depth on the defensive line.


Jake Delhomme or Daunte Culpepper for Stafford's back-up QB?

I'm surprised that this hasn't been addressed by Jim Schwartz or people on this forum yet.

I think that the coaching staff and the brass are looking to fill needs based on priority. The D-line, the secondary, the WR, those are all positions that have guys out on the field all the time. The backup QB is a position that needs to be addressed, but you hope he never plays a down all season. I'm sure that they will address it, but my guess is that they probably see a group of guys out there that are all in the same tier, and as long as there's a pool of guys available, they'll keep one eye on it but will focus their attention more on the 'on the field' matters.

I think they have to find a guy that will be comfortable in the backup role. Culpepper wasn't (but he sucked anyways, so forget him) and I'm not sure Delhomme would be 100% OK with being a backup. Quite honestly, I'd be more than happy with Jeff Garcia, but I thought I saw he was being looked at by the Giants.

[Thruster315]

I think they have to find a guy that will be comfortable in the backup role. Culpepper wasn't (but he sucked anyways, so forget him) and I'm not sure Delhomme would be 100% OK with being a backup. Quite honestly, I'd be more than happy with Jeff Garcia, but I thought I saw he was being looked at by the Giants.

We looked at Derek Anderson a few years back. Now that he's been cut by the Browns, do you think he might be a good fit? He was a starter and then not a starter with Brady Quinn in Cleveland so I don't know if that would fulfill your criteria of a guy satisfied with being a backup.

With the role of a backup, shouldn't he also have enough drive to start? Stafford is the starter here but we shouldn't have a backup like Culpepper that is pretty much useless and not a threat. If only there was a backup QB that could be a mentor and still have some gas in the tank.

[kenp]

Delhomme isnt going to be looking for a backup role.
Anyone that comes here is going to have to realize they are purely a backup. I'm not sure Anderson thinks that.
With this being a non cap year its worth paying a little more for a backup at a one year contract.

[smogboy]

Delhomme isnt going to be looking for a backup role.
Anyone that comes here is going to have to realize they are purely a backup. I'm not sure Anderson thinks that.
With this being a non cap year its worth paying a little more for a backup at a one year contract.

I've always contended that getting an top notch back-up QB position has got to be one of the weirdest in all of professional sports. For our team ideally the back-up QB has to be:

1) damn good. Good enough to contest for the starting QB role but not that good to provide a heated QB controversy.
2) be able to step in at a moment's notice and still run the offense efficiently.
3) able to hold a clipboard and understand everything there is to the number one offense.
4) respected by his team even though he might not even know half of their names.
5) able to go back to the role of back-up without any grumbling.
6) confident enough to know he can step up at anytime.
7) able to recognize that if you play for the Lions, Stafford is the future.
8) able to place that ball down neatly for Jason Hanson if called upon.

So as it stands there's a handful of QBs that are out looking for work.

Kyle Orton-Restricted FA
Jason Campbell-Restricted FA
Matt Moore-Restricted FA
Tavaris Jackson-Restricted FA
Kellen Clemens-Restricted FA
Charlie Batch
Kyle Boller
David Carr
Brodie Croyle-Restricted FA
Daunte Culpepper
Charlie Frye– Restricted FA
Rex Grossman
Joey Harrington (uh, no thanks. The firestorm would melt the Ford Field roof off.)
Jon Kitna
Chris Redman
Brett Ratliff
Troy Smith
Derek Anderson
Jake Delhomme

So the pickings are kinda slim. I'm not exactly sure how many of these guys still have much left in the tank or have much to prove. Granted I would hope we never ever see the back-up QB come to play with the exception of pre-season games. And Stanton just might be able to climb out of the third string category this year and become our number two QB.

So yes, the back-up QB is important but obviously not priority right now.

[jiminnm]

Damn smogboy, where's Andre Ware when you need him?

No, I never hit Gilmer (or Milt Plum) with a snowball. It would have been a major league throw and then some from my seat.

[Thruster315]

http://www.detnews.com/article/20100314/SPORTS0101/3140324/1361/Report--Lions-trade-for-49ers-QB-Shaun-Hill

Shaun Hill- welcome our new back up quarterback. Not too bad for a 7th round pick IMHO. At least he's got some experience starting.

[gnome]

I'd like them to give Matt Baker a look-see. A Brother Rice grad and has been in the Buffalo system for a few yrs. No real reason other than to give a hometown boy a shot. Call me sentimental.

[kenp]

I hate the idea of giving up a draft pick, especially for a backup QB who probably will be gone next year.
As far as the choice of QB I think its a solid choice.

[smogboy]

I hate the idea of giving up a draft pick, especially for a backup QB who probably will be gone next year.
As far as the choice of QB I think its a solid choice.

The one caveat to this is that it was an extra seventh round draft pick in 2011, which they got from the NY Jets for quarterback Kevin O'Connell (who?) last season. We'll still have a seventh round pick in 2011 and conceivably (not hopefully) he could be put into play if called upon. Who knows if that seventh round draft pick will ever pan out? It could conceivably turn into the next Hall of Famer or a Millen-esque bust, but for now we know we have a solid commodity in a guy who has starting experience, actually comes to this team with a (gasp!) winning record as a starter and some experience with the offensive coordinator Scott Linehan.

[kenp]

Anthony Hargrove of New Orleans visited the Lions yesterday. He is a DT and a restrictive Free agent. If we sign him we give up a 3rd pick. Also NO can match our offer and keep him.
Whats interesting here is this is another DT. If they do sign this guy its at a heavy price and I cant image them keeping the 2nd pick.
There are a lot of good guards out there in free agency, wish we would look at some of those.

[smogboy]

The Lions get Rob Sims to help shore up that left side.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20100405/SPORTS0101/4050388/Lions-get-Rob-Sims-from-Seahawks--he-s-likely-starter-at-left-guard

I'm sure Matthew Stafford will feel a little safer knowing he won't have a journeyman at that position. From the sounds of it, Sims seems like a good positional sort of guy who can pass protect. He's young and might have a great upside with this team as it gels. With any luck he can be one of the building blocks on that line.

Let's see what other deals will be swung by Martin Mayhew & Tom Lewand now.

[kenp]

Getting Sims and other recent developments have really been interesting.

1. Bradford impresses so much in his workout he looks like the sure #1 pick for the Rams.
2. The RedSkins trade for Mcnabb who were the perfect "trade down" team the Lions were looking at.
3. DT Hargrove stays with the Saints instead of the Lions.
4. The Lions get Sims which makes our need for O-Line less important and reducing the chance we draft Okung.
5. McCoy's stock has gone down lately.

It looks to me that what everyone wanted after the bowl season will probably come true, we draft Suh #2.

[smogboy]

Well Jared DeVries comes back to the fold as a Lion today and it made me think about what the defensive front line will look like in the upcoming season. Now if all of the football pundits are correct and we end up getting Ndamukong Suh in the upcoming draft, we could actually have a pretty potent front four for once. It's been so long since we even had a dominant defense, it'd be a sight for sore eyes. And we might actually have depth at some of those spots?

A front four consisting of Ndamukong Suh, Sammie Hill, Corey Williams, and Kyle Vanden Bosch?

With back-ups being (and this is the big guess here) Cliff Avril, Jason Hunter, Andre Fluellen, and Jared DeVries? Guys like Joe Cohen, Landon Cohen, Terrance Taylor, Turk McBride, and Copeland Bryan will all be struggling for a spot on this roster. Again, it's all speculative at this point but the thought that the Lions actually took care of a very vital part of business here and with some sense of decorum & responsibility has to give one a slight sense of hope.

Yes, there are still many many holes to fill but at least one part of the puzzle seems to be coming together nicely. And one thing that I really seem to like about this is that they didn't exactly get guys who are at the twilight of their careers. They've actually got some proven talent with some upside with additions like Vanden Bosch and Williams. Add a touted player like Suh- and if he pans out, could be pretty darn good news for our down trodden Lions' defensive front four.

[smogboy]

Goodbye Ernie Sims & hello Tony Scheffler.

http://www.freep.com/article/20100419/SPORTS01/100419055/1320/Why-Sims-for-Scheffler-trade-made-sense-to-Lions

With DeAndre Levy coming n strong last year as a rookie, I guess Ernie's days were numbered. While I liked Ernie's intelligence and candor, he was expendable and I'm glad that Martin Mayhew got some value out of this pick. With Casey Fitzsimmons retiring because of concussion issues, we needed a back-up for Brandon Pettigrew.

I remember listening to Ernie Sims his rookie year talk about the game the day before on the Monday morning drive into work. He'd come on the air after what was a total disaster the day before and would speak very openly and candidly about what he saw, what he thought and one could get an idea of what it was like to be a rookie on one of the worst teams in the NFL. He knew he wasn't going to be the solution to what ailed the Lions. There were certain times one could almost hear him groan in pain from the game play the night before and one could also hear the exasperation of his efforts gone for naught.

He tried hard here in a bad situation. Given some more talent around him, he might've been more than just an average LB- but as a person, I thought he was a bright soft spoken guy who cared and wanted to be a part of the solution here. He got the undignified label of being a "Millen Pick" not by his choice. I'll wish him well in Philly.

[sirrealone]

Pros:


It seems like it's a zero-sum move. We gave up a good LB for a good TE.
It provides good compliment (not backup) to Pettigrew. I don't think Scheffler was happy in a limited role in Denver, so I don't think they brought him in to warm the bench. He compliments Pettigrew so you will probably see a nice rotation or even some cool two TE sets, something that I think will be brand new to many Lions fans.


Cons:


Depth at LB is now very weak. The starting unit could be as good as it was last year even losing Foote and Sims, but what we don't currently have is depth. As it stands, we're one injury away from being in deep trouble, plus this also limit rotations, which is one thing defensive units need to be able to keep fresh legs.


I've seen where people are hinting that Follett could expand from a special teams role to playing in the rotation. That would be awesome if it worked. I love Follett and think he's brought an amazing spark to special teams, which is something the Lions ignored for most of the last decade (along with winning). But, don't assume just because he's an awesome ST player that he will be on the same level in defensive schemes, plus if you spread him too thin he might not have enough gas in the tank to dominate the ST coverages. They have to be careful with this.

Generally, I'm in favor of the move only because Mayhew really hasn't let us down yet so I have faith that he knows what he's doing. He's showing himself to be one that can make moves to bring in better players. What I really want to see is how all the pieces fit together to form a 'team'. They seem to be bringing in guys that aren't just parts and pieces but that are actually willing and excited to work together and can elevate each others game.

I'm kind of getting the impression that this might further open the door for Adam 'Pacman' Jones to be signed after the draft. I know that they don't slot picks to positions, but you have to figure that the second and third round would probably have the heaviest 'looks' given to RB, CB, and S (assuming Suh is the pick at 2), but now you have to factor in LB to that equation. I know they won't hesitate to pull the trigger on a CB if one falls to them that they feel is 'best player available', but if it's between a CB and a LB for example, they might just take the LB and figure that Pacman could 'plug the hole'. After all, he couldn't be any worse than what they trotted out last year?

I'm looking forward to the draft Thursday night. Go Lions!

[smogboy]

I'm looking forward to the draft Thursday night. Go Lions!

I'm also stoked as to the NFL Draft too. After seeing this link:

http://espn.go.com/blog/sportscenter/post/_/id/43405/the-sport-science-of-ndamukong-suh

I, too would hope for Suh.

[smogboy]

Well, we finally landed him. We got Suh!

And coming up to the draft as I read up a little more on him is that he seems like a bright individual as well. He's already committed a big chunk of his change to his college alma mater. He's in a construction management degree program at Nebraska. He has said he doesn't want to hold out and wants to start training camp with his team mates already. So far, he's saying the right things- with the right amount of wisdom and intellect. So beyond his physical prowess, he seems like a bright personable kind of guy that will become a fan favorite.

Granted the best way to become any Lions fan favorite is to play well- and amazingly well. There are never any guarantees when it comes to playing football and we can only hope that he doesn't turn into a Millen-esque kind of pick (anyone remember Kalimba Edwards?). And unlike Stafford last year, I think a fair amount of the Lions faithful feel good about this pick. It wasn't like last year where there was a huge contingent hoping for an Aaron Curry. I can see the Suh jerseys flying off the shelf now long before he even takes a snap in the NFL.

I can honestly say that for a defensive pick- which has generally never been sexy, this one has some fan appeal to it. Let's see how thing shake down and see how Day #2 will fare for us. Day #1 seems to be a success so far.

[firstandten]

Great Job ! so far. The Lions got Jahvid Best late in the first round as well. I am real interested in how Mayhew works the middle rounds. However I have a feeling we aren't looking at Matt Millen Jr.here. I think Mayhew actually knows what he's doing. I haven't been encouraged like this in a long while. Not so much that they got Suh and Best but because they are actually making moves that makes sense.

[smogboy]

Great Job ! so far. The Lions got Jahvid Best late in the first round as well. I am real interested in how Mayhew works the middle rounds. However I have a feeling we aren't looking at Matt Millen Jr.here. I think Mayhew actually knows what he's doing. I haven't been encouraged like this in a long while. Not so much that they got Suh and Best but because they are actually making moves that makes sense.

I'm curious as well. So we traded up and got the homerun potential RB in Best and our Day #2 is going to be silent. We don't pick until the:

-66th pick in the third round
-128th pick in the fourth round
-no fifth round
-no sixth round
- and the 213th, 220th and the 255th picks in the seventh round.

Let's hope we can get some value in the third and fourth round picks. It's not to say that Mayhew couldn't because he did manage to sang DeAndre Levy last year with that pick. Our other third round pick in Derrick Williams really hasn't panned out. I don't exactly hold out much hope for the seventh rounders but one never knows if there's a gem in the mix.

One other thing about the way Mayhew has conducted this draft is that he didn't exactly blurt out or reveal his hand. He held out until the last possible moment before making any moves- waiting to see if an offer would come in. That's so unlike Millen, I have hopes there as well. And I agree wholeheartedly firstandten; there does seem to be somewhat the semblance of a plan here to make this team better for the long haul. Even with the recent acquisitions- they've all been younger guys with good growth potential; gone are the days of signing outrageous contracts with guys well into their mid 30's in the twilights of their careers (sorry Larry Foote).

Hope eternal for the Honolulu blue & silver.

[smogboy]

One other nice giddy thought I had coming into this season was envisioning some of the two tight end sets that the Lions could use.

Imagine having Scheffler and Pettigrew as the twin bookends; both pretty big boys with an ability to catch the ball. Calvin Johnson to one side and Nate Burleson to the other. Scheffler, Pettigrew and Johnson are all 6'5" and Burleson coming in at a "puny" 6'0". Toss in the likes of a speedster like Jahvid Best in the backfield?

I'm not saying that the Lions still shouldn't address upgrading the offensive line or anything like that at all but one has to admit that with that kind of receiving group coming at you, as a defensive coordinator for the opposition, is just going to be scrambling to cover these guys. Oh yeah, did I mention that I still love Matthew Stafford's quick release? By all accounts, Best can also catch the ball out of the backfield and cause the linebackers some serious grief.

Without even having drafted a true offensive lineman, having these sort of weapons can help protect Matthew Stafford too. The other team can't just pin their ears back and come after him like they did last year; they've got to have some sort of coverage (at least double on CJ) to prevent getting burned long now. Whether it's by design or not, I think the team of Mayhew/ Lewand/ Schwartz has done a pretty good job so far in offering up some support to Calvin Johnson. It seems a lot more balanced of an attack now.

[sirrealone]

I came away very impressed after last night. Suh was the obvious choice and I think along with the other additions they've made, that their line will actually be good and could help hide some of the weaknesses elsewhere in the defense. Their secondary will most likely still be very weak, but at least having a pass rush or way to stop the run will put some pressure on the opposing team while the QB holds / hands off the ball.

My guess is that this opens the door for the signing of Adam 'Pacman' Jones. I think if someone like Kyle Wilson had fallen, they might have chosen a corner over the RB, but once their corners went off the board, they focused on the RB position.

If Jones gets signed and can keep his head on straight, he can at the very least be a warm body that doesn't do any more damage than the guys at corner did last year, and at best could actually contribute.

Regardless of what happens, there's no way that they were going to fill every hole this draft. They still need a LB, S, CB, and it'd be nice to get a T, DE. With only two more meaningful picks as of now, obviously areas will be lacking. Still, you have to admit that there's less and less holes each time you look at the progression. Mayhew has done a good job at plugging holes via drafts and this years free agency and don't forget that we're only 16 months removed from an 0-16 season so if you keep that perspective, I think Mayhew has done great.

[sirrealone]

I also loved seeing the Dez Bryant pick in Dallas. Not that there was any doubt, but that pretty much cements the fact that Jerry Jones has admitted that the Roy Williams trade was a complete and utter failure. My opinion is that the only worse trade that I've ever seen in my lifetime was the Herschel Walker deal that set up Dallas for their dominance in the 90's. We can only hope that someday the Roy Williams trade is seen as the similar 'beginning' of a decade of dominance for our Lions!

[kenp]

Interesting draft last night, it was entertaining and moved along nicely.
I question the trade for pick #30. We had the 34th pick and sure gave up a lot for 4 spots when we probably could have got him anyway.
Best is fast but smaller and injury prone. We are to thin to be giving up players at this point.

[sirrealone]

From what I've heard, there was definite interest in Best and the thought was that the extended period between rounds would have made it an almost certainty that the Rams would have gotten offers for their pick to be possibly used on Best.

My guess is that Mayhew thought Best was the most complete player. While he probably could have targeted others at 34 had Best not been there, he knew he'd be settling, so it was worth it to ensure that he got his guy.

Many players have been injured. If teams were scared away because of injuries, then Bradford never would have gone first and probably half the guys in the first round wouldn't have been taken. At some point you have to roll the dice. None of the injuries he's sustained are ones that would change his performance, not like he had an ACL or something. And as far as his size, that's fine, but the move towards smaller speedy backs in the NFL is definitely on, and it has a better chance of working because of the rotation you see at RB these days. The time of the workhorse running back getting 90% of the snaps is gone. With all that in mind it was a great pick.

Also, to be technical, we only 'gave up' one player and that was a 7th round pick. While the player we theoretically gave up could end up being a five-time Pro Bowler, the odds of that happening is probably slim, and they're odds that Mayhew and Co. were willing to take to ensure that they didn't have to drop down to the next tier of RBs.

We also did lower ourselves in the fourth, but my hunch is that they have their eye on some potential diamond in the rough players towards that time anyways ala Sammie Lee Hill that they're confident will probably be there, and they might even be able to trade down again into the fifth round and maybe get that 7th round pick (or even a 6th) back.

[firstandten]

Interesting draft last night, it was entertaining and moved along nicely.
I question the trade for pick #30. We had the 34th pick and sure gave up a lot for 4 spots when we probably could have got him anyway.
Best is fast but smaller and injury prone. We are to thin to be giving up players at this point.

Kemp are you sure about that, I mean Best is about 200 lbs. Has he had injuries other than the concussion ?

[smogboy]

Kemp are you sure about that, I mean Best is about 200 lbs. Has he had injuries other than the concussion ?

According to CBSSports.com, Best's injury report looks like this:

2009: Missed spring practices following offseason foot and elbow surgery. Suffered a concussion and back injury against Oregon State after getting flipped in the air while scoring a touchdown. Missed the final four games of the season, including the team's bowl game.

2008: Sat out spring practices resting a hip injury suffered following the previous season. Missed the Arizona game due to a dislocated elbow suffered against Colorado State.

It doesn't seem that bad considering he's had some time off to recover. And I'm sure Mayhew & Company have done their due diligence with their medical staff"s evaluation.

[kenp]

I hope Best is an All Pro with a long career. My point is we gave up a lot for 4 picks for a guy who probably wasnt going to be a 1st rounder. Right now we need a lot of players and giving up a draft pick to me is iffy. This is similar to Millen moving up to get Kevin Jones in the first round. If the guy has a history of concussion's its just going to get worse.but I will keep my fingers crossed.

[smogboy]

Amari Spievey, a DB in the third round.

Jason Fox, an OT in the fourth round.

So it seems as though Mayhew/ Lewand/ Schrwartz are trying to add some quality players to those areas of concern. I have no idea how after the rest of the draft is complete how the NFL pundits will rate our team but to me, the brain trust here seems to have made sound decisions. Or at least with their first two picks in Suh & Best.

One of the nicer things that I've noticed with this current regime is that they've seemed to at least notice the deficiencies and will try to address them. Whether they address those needs through trades or the draft, the sheer fact that they're not ignoring them is pleasant. The fact that they're plugging those holes with youth is also a heckuva lot better than bringing in aging veterans, other teams' cast-offs, or other feeble stop gap measures seems to at least indicate the semblance of a plan to making this sad sack franchise viable.

I'm not delusional to the point of buying my Lions' Super Bowl tickets just yet because I still think that even with the addition of this new blood, we're still a long way off talent wise from the NFL elite. It's still going to take time for this group to come together and gain some traction, but it's sure nice to see us make some smart decisions as an organization as opposed to stupid knee jerk Millen-esque choices. Check with anyone's list of all time NFL busts and Millen's chubby thumbprints are all over them.

[firstandten]

I hope Best is an All Pro with a long career. My point is we gave up a lot for 4 picks for a guy who probably wasnt going to be a 1st rounder. Right now we need a lot of players and giving up a draft pick to me is iffy. This is similar to Millen moving up to get Kevin Jones in the first round. If the guy has a history of concussion's its just going to get worse.but I will keep my fingers crossed.

I was talking to a buddy of mine who is a U of Maryland fan. He said Best had a field day on them both times they played. My buddy being originally from Detroit felt the Lions made a good move in getting Best based on the two Cal vs Maryland games that he saw.

[smogboy]

I don't know how popular of a thought this is going to be but seeing as how the 2010 NFL Draft has come and gone now, I think it might be appropriate to say thank you to William Clay Ford for granting the Lions brass the free reign to do their jobs.

Too often the old man gets grilled for the downfall of this team- and rightfully so on many occasions, but when it came down to picking up the necessary free agents and drafting this time around, he was thankfully nowhere to be see or heard. Who knows? He could've been behind the scenes orchestrating all of this, but we fans will never be the wiser. He stayed up in his ivory tower counting the money from all of the freshly minted #90 Suh jerseys for all we know. But obviously he still has to open up his wallet and authorize Mayhew/ Lewand/ Schwartz to sign these guys. It's still his initial outlay of cash that he has to pony up.

Is there a true Lions fan out there that doesn't think this team improved within the last few days? And if it took William Clay Ford staying away for it to happen, then thanks to the old man for staying away and/ or having faith in the people that know football talent. Maybe after all of these debacles over the years, he's learned something as an owner. We can only hope as fans that the talent amassed here will not go to waste (think about all of the top notch talent that came here and wallowed in misery because we couldn't get more pieces to help them along) and they can somehow achieve something. This town is hungry for anything, but then when one skips off the bottom of the barrel under Millen, it's not too tough to improve. We want respectability. We want a competitive team.

-Jim Schwartz? The kid gloves are off now. I'd like to see you coach better this year. I want to see you do better time management, utilize the proper personnel and steal us a few games with innovative play calling (Lord knows you doesn't have THAT much talent yet). And I know this might sound feeble but thanks for tossing the red hanky out and winning a few of those challenges for us last year too (Was it me or did every Rod tossed out a challenge, it was soundly defeated and we lost a time-out?).

-Mayhew/ Lewand? SIgn these new draft picks. Prove to us you've made the right choices for Schwartz to use on the field. Many of the moves have been shrewd so far but it's an ongoing job (not one to be done from a Pennsylvania cabin a few days out of the week).

-And Mr. Ford- thanks again for giving us fans something to gnaw on for at least a little bit. Your loyalty has failed you in the past with the likes of Russ Thomas and the Ron Jaworski insulting slimebag known as Matt Millen. They betrayed you and us fans. Let's hope that this current bunch can do your faith in them justice.

We could all use a better NFL product from this town.

[smogboy]

Rather than hear about stories about athletes that use steroids, blood doping, gambling or get into some other nefarious off field activities, it's nice to share a story for once about a local athlete that does well in and for the community.

In the Freep, they did an article about how Calvin Johnson is giving money back to establish a scholarship to student athletes.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artikkel?Dato=20100523&Kategori=HSS&Lopenr=5230493&Ref=AR&Show=0&template=fullarticle

Bravo to Calvin Johnson.

[kenp]

uh oh!
Lions Prez Tom Lewand popped for drunk driving in Roscommen.

[jefferson78]

He supposedly blew over two times the limit. And he was supposed to
be a recovering alcoholic? Yeah, OK
Just another stain on this cursed organization.

[kenp]

Hope he wasnt at the Roscommen Wendy's and especially hope he wasnt butt naked.
Geez

[GOAT]

Jefferson78,
All of this comes from the top. The old drunk bastard himself has created this type of environment, so this isn't really a surprise. I would even guess Lewand had a few with the bastard.

Btw, tickets just arrived today. One thing I find is this year's schedule is terrible. Most home games are in the cold which sucks for tailgating (though I do it anyway) and the first fake game...I mean home game is Aug. 28th!

[smogboy]

Jefferson78,
All of this comes from the top. The old drunk bastard himself has created this type of environment, so this isn't really a surprise. I would even guess Lewand had a few with the bastard.

I have no love lost for Old Man Ford either but to speculate or even insinuate that WC Ford had anything to do with what Tom Lewand did on his own accord with alcohol is absolutely ridiculous and reckless. Give me one iota of how Ford "created this type of environment". Was it the fact that Ford Field serves alcohol? Is there any proof that Old Man Ford sponsored, served or was even in any way shape or form at this charity event that Lewand attended?

We can all agree what Tom Lewand did was unbecoming of an NFL president, possibly detrimental to the team (short term hopefully), and just not very bright. We're thankful no one got hurt by this incident. But by all accounts, this was by his own accord- not anyone else's. Don't pin blame or even speculate where blame needs to go other than to the man who has admitted to his own actions. He has accepted responsibility and hopefully will face some form of punishment and help for his issues.

As a Lions fan, I'm not too swift about what he did either, but let's deal with it in a civil way. Get the help for the man first and foremost. Accept whatever punishment (and I do believe there should be some from the NFL) that will be doled out and live up the promise that it'll never happen again.

[smogboy]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AnQhIqmXQA2qZ_3Az1yITxBDubYF?slug=jc-dlinerankings062810

Interesting. They rank the Lions defensive line 16th, middle of the pack.

Now I'm optimistic but I'll also temper it with a sense of realism here. Sure, I know it's a pre-season, means nothing sort of ranking but for four guys who've never played a down together yet in a real game, I'm not so sure I would've ranked them this high just yet. I agree that the Lions have improved but to jump to middle of the pack already? I'm not ready to concede that just yet but I have high hopes that they can live up to this lofty prediction and just maybe a little beyond it.

[GOAT]

Uh yeah. I'm not here to help the Lion's org keep their employees from drinking. If you want to reach out then go for it. Since this is now the second guy from the same org who has been caught doing this stuff from an owner who has battled booze (and perhaps senility) as well I just connected the dots; though the statement was also somewhat tongue-in-cheek.

Now lets talk Lions shall we?

Do you think Haynesworth should be someone Detroit should grab? I would think it would make the DTs pretty much a brick wall. But then again we haven't done much to protect a $42 million investment in Stafford either.

I agree about the defence and the corners are especially weak. I will wait it out for a couple of regular season games before I cast my grade on them.

[smogboy]

Uh yeah. I'm not here to help the Lion's org keep their employees from drinking. If you want to reach out then go for it. Since this is now the second guy from the same org who has been caught doing this stuff from an owner who has battled booze (and perhaps senility) as well I just connected the dots; though the statement was also somewhat tongue-in-cheek.

So according to you, anyone with the Lions organization who has an alcohol problem can pin the blame on Old Man Ford? Let's not put out the dots when there aren't any to connect. There are plenty of things that we can blame on the owner of the team but this isn't one of them.


Now lets talk Lions shall we?

Do you think Haynesworth should be someone Detroit should grab? I would think it would make the DTs pretty much a brick wall. But then again we haven't done much to protect a $42 million investment in Stafford either.

I agree about the defence and the corners are especially weak. I will wait it out for a couple of regular season games before I cast my grade on them.

According to sh!t stirrers like Drew Sharp, it takes guts to go out and get someone like a Haynesworth. I also think it takes guts to step away from a talented malcontent like Haynesworth. What strikes me as the biggest mark against him are his peers' remarks. So what if he's reunited with Schwartz- it doesn't necessarily mean that he can keep him content. We walked away from guys like PacMan Jones as did a bunch of other teams. I don't exactly see a path being beat towards Haynesworth's door by a ton of other teams either. Is he willing to sign a one year deal to prove that he's just not a malcontent? He was all smiles and giggles when he signed with Washington but that soured quickly- who's to say it couldn't sour here with our emerging program? It's a risk not worth taking in my book at this point; this team might win another game or two with him but he's not going to be the player to put this team over the top or into the playoffs.

[sirrealone]

I say no way on Haynesworth for multiple reasons:

1) Suh is coming in with high expectations. He doesn't need the guy that should be mentoring him to be teaching him, directly or indirectly, that it's OK to play when you want, to dictate the terms of how you play and how much effort you put in, and that laziness pays. Haynesworth might have the skills down but there's too many bad things that can be gleaned and send Suh down the wrong path.

2) It could cause more harm than good. Remember Brett Farve in Green Bay and how he bristled anytime anybody suggested that anyone other than he was the man in the spotlight? If Haynesworth comes in, everyone expects him to teach Suh, but what if he feels threatened by him and shuns him, dividing the defensive side of the locker room? I think Farve is an as$hole for how he treated Aaron Rodgers, and since Haynesworth has shown that he's just as big if not bigger of an a$$, I don't think this risk is worth taking.

3) Schwartz and Mayhew are bringing in guys that want to play and have the hunger. Having a guy around who has exhibited that he will only show those things on his terms could undo practically everything that Schwartz has tried to put together in that regard. Remember when Marinelli preached his 'pound the rock' and said that everyone had to earn their spot? Then he'd name Kitna the starter months before camp and let guys like Shaun Rogers skip workouts? To me that's when he lost the rest of the team because they saw it as b-s. I think Schwartz has a good message and the guys are listening to it. Putting that at risk would be a mistake.

4) I think once a player loses his passion for the game, it's darn near impossible to get back. The $100 million contract and the $42 million that he accepted, I believe took the life out of him. At this point, he has no motivation that I can see to try to re-claim that.

5) Drew Sharp is an idiot. Whenever he suggests something, 99% of the time the team in question would be better off doing the complete opposite. So if he says to go get Haynesworth, then that says to me that taking a pass is unequivocally the right call.

[smogboy]

5) Drew Sharp is an idiot. Whenever he suggests something, 99% of the time the team in question would be better off doing the complete opposite. So if he says to go get Haynesworth, then that says to me that taking a pass is unequivocally the right call.

Drew Sharp is one of the primary reasons I don't listen to WDFN anymore. Back in the day when there were two semi-intelligent sports talk radio stations, I would switch back and forth depending on the topic. if one station wanted to talk about the growth rate of turnips, I'd quickly jump up or down the dial and hope for better conversation. Not anymore. Not since Drew Sharp signed on to do the late afternoon shift at WDFN have I even considered lingering there.

Just look at the groundswell in commentaries to his Haynesworth article. The majority of the folks there have put the kibosh on the idea.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100630/SPORTS01/6300304/1049/Sports01/Why-wouldnt-Lions-gamble-on-Redskins-Haynesworth&&template=fullarticle

And using such cutesy language like calling this team gutless in not pursuing Haynesworth is just simple baiting. Like I said earlier, it might take just as much bravery, courage and intelligence NOT to jump the gun and acquire a player like Haynesworth.

Sharp also talks so highly in pairing up Haynesworth with Suh to "give the Lions one of the best DT tandems in the league." And while we're all high on Suh to become something special here, we're also keenly aware that he's still an unproven rookie. I'd much rather have him team up with a character guy and a workout fiend like Vanden Bosch than Haynesworth.

Sharp also wants to take shots at the Lions team for not wanting to improve this team by taking Haynesworth but also fails to recognize that he's not going to be the final piece of the puzzle that will nudge this team into Super Bowl contention. We're not even close yet. Let's win a handful more games, come close to being competitive in the NFC Central Division, maybe even make .500, and show progress before we take on risky players like this that could conceivably push us over the top. Prime example is the Patriots taking on the volatile Randy Moss; he came in cheap and was one of the final pieces to finally help them reach the Super Bowl. Drew Sharp wants instant gratification after the years of Millen's circling of the drain with this team. Mayhew has at least tempered that; he's shrewd and has taken his time in being very selective about what sort of pieces he wants in on this team. It's about as much chemistry, character and talent now. And while it might take a little longer, I see this team having some hope for the future. Adding a Haynesworth to the mix now is a spontaneous stop-gap measure at best. We still have far too many other needs on this team.

Sharp's only true argument for acquiring Haynesworth is the price tag; hoping that the Daniel Snyder can pick up the majority of the tab. He's hoping that by pairing him up with Schwartz again, it'll be the magical formula to returning him to his glory days. Sorry Drew, but I have more faith in the new Lions front office brass than hoping for this sort of scenario.

[sirrealone]

Drew Sharp is a moron but he's an aboslute genius at the same time. He's the only guy that can basically write column after column in which he does nothing other than stir the pot, yet continually get away with it. I think a lot of times he writes the stuff he does not necessarily because he believes it, but because he wants to stir the pot and get people thinking. I mean, you can probably go back and find opinions from the likes of Rosenberg, Albom, Samuleson, Caputo, Henning, Niyo or anybody else that covers the beat or writes opinions on the Lions, and read how they think that Haynesworth shouldn't be here. Sharp, though, writes the opposite and of course he's the one that is going to get the fans talking.

Where he's made his mark, though, is that he continues to play that 'devils advocate' card but does so in a way where he somehow doesn't lose all respect (I know some would argue, but if he really had, he wouldn't even stir up the emotions) and where he doesn't pis* people off to the point of getting himself canned. Look back at Rob Parker. I think he tried to be the same guy on the DetNews side, but he couldn't pull it off and he crashed and burned instead.

Sharp's opinions are moronic, but the fact that he's still around and is able to stir the controversy that he does on a regular basis, I have to give him credit. Very few could do what he does and get away with it for as long as he has.

[smogboy]

Drew Sharp is a moron but he's an aboslute genius at the same time. He's the only guy that can basically write column after column in which he does nothing other than stir the pot, yet continually get away with it. I think a lot of times he writes the stuff he does not necessarily because he believes it, but because he wants to stir the pot and get people thinking. I mean, you can probably go back and find opinions from the likes of Rosenberg, Albom, Samuleson, Caputo, Henning, Niyo or anybody else that covers the beat or writes opinions on the Lions, and read how they think that Haynesworth shouldn't be here. Sharp, though, writes the opposite and of course he's the one that is going to get the fans talking.

Where he's made his mark, though, is that he continues to play that 'devils advocate' card but does so in a way where he somehow doesn't lose all respect (I know some would argue, but if he really had, he wouldn't even stir up the emotions) and where he doesn't pis* people off to the point of getting himself canned. Look back at Rob Parker. I think he tried to be the same guy on the DetNews side, but he couldn't pull it off and he crashed and burned instead.

Sharp's opinions are moronic, but the fact that he's still around and is able to stir the controversy that he does on a regular basis, I have to give him credit. Very few could do what he does and get away with it for as long as he has.

In essence, Drew Sharp is the shock jock of Detroit sports journalism.

I don't have a problem with him playing the devil's advocate card. I wish more journalists would do that and support it with facts or at least a very strong argument. I agree that sometimes he does a masterful job of just pushing the hot button in the midst of all sound reason. I've noticed that the very few times I've listened to him, he's often been shouted down or been presented with just enough facts to back him down.

On a very VERY masochistic bent, I've often wondered what a sports talk show with Drew Sharp and Rob Parker would be like.

[smogboy]

Dre Bly signs for a two year deal.

http://www.freep.com/article/20100702/SPORTS01/100702032/1322/Dre-Bly-returns-to-Lions-I-feel-like-its-home

I dunno. On a fan's POV, the way he left the Lions organization back then was pretty harsh. I didn't disagree with his assessment of the Mooch/Harrington debacle but with regards to the manner, I think he should've been a little more tactful and a pro about it. But then there's also the current fan in me that is thankful that we have some veteran leadership in the secondary that could bolster the troops. Even if he just came in during the nickel & dime packages, he could spell some gassed DB out there. Bly was never known as much of a tackler but perhaps with our new supposedly vaunted front four, he might even be able to get himself a few picks. He's not the second coming of Charles Woodson or Deion Sanders by any stretch but he might be able to buy us time until we can draft ourselves a top notch CB in the years to come.

Anyone else's thoughts on Dre Bly coming back?

[GOAT]

I guess he may be an improvement over who is there now but I think Bly's career is done with any way.
This smacks more of the Lions of yesteryear who would bring back players forhopes of reclaiming their former glory, only to have it smashed in their face.

[smogboy]

If nothing else in Bly's defense, he was durable enough to start all 16 games for the Niners last year. Granted when one doesn't hit that much (although he did have 26 solos, 3 assists and one sack), it's easy to survive a whole season. He's going to play his usual cover game and maybe impart some knowledge to the likes of Delmas.

I'm just hoping that the day he does leave this team, he'll have a little more class than his first go around.

[kenp]

Bly is passed his prime, probably going to be more of a nickel back which could be a real positive. He takes chances for INT's, and this will be a big benifit to him not to have to cover every down. If they expect him to start as a corner then thats a mistake.
I dont really care about his past history with us, we all know this is a business. And after all he was correct....

[smogboy]

Domino number one in Sam Bradford has been signed. Next in line should be Suh for some tidy sum of cash. It is refreshing to see that Jahvid Best is signed sealed and delivered though.

http://www.freep.com/article/20100730/SPORTS01/100730042/1319/Lions-Best-agree-to-5-year-deal-Suh-still-unsigned

[ejames01]

Detroit lions rule!!

[Detroit Stylin]

Detroit Lions may make have a winning record this year. This looks promisisng with the moves they are finally making on the offensive line...

[GOAT]

Still three bigneeds for this team. Corners, MLBs and I still think another 1 ot 2 on the O line.

By the way, isn't Bly a veteran? Then why such a rookie mistake on his easy tackle that he missed? Plus another Backus-assbackward move...nice trip penalty bud!

[smogboy]

Still three bigneeds for this team. Corners, MLBs and I still think another 1 ot 2 on the O line.

By the way, isn't Bly a veteran? Then why such a rookie mistake on his easy tackle that he missed? Plus another Backus-assbackward move...nice trip penalty bud!

Agreed about the lack of depth and/or talent at the secondary and linebacker position. Additional depth on the O line never hurts. It's funny to think that team actually has depth at the wide outs for once, despite Millen picking one nearly every year during his ill fated regime. The tight end, defensive line and running back position also seems to have some measure of depth too for once (to the point of releasing promising DE Jason Hunter today). Will all of that depth mean more victories? Dunno, but it's guardedly nice to see some upgrades here and there.

As far as Dre Bly's veteran "move" there, he's never been known for his tackling ability. He's always been a cover guy willing to take a chance at getting the interception. Run stoppage and tackling were never Bly's forte. Backus' penalty, among the slew of other penalties that the team took just wasn't good. There's no way to candy coat those other than to shake them off in the pre-season and hope to God it doesn't cost us in the regular season. It's not just Backus' issue (although his is glaring because of the great play it erased); it's a team issue that Schwartz will have to correct. Penalties will kill this team if they persist and while no team is immune to them, an emerging young team like our Lions can't afford the drive stalling, great play negating, or momentum killing gaffes like that.

[GOAT]

Good post Smogboy. The Lions can't afford Bly taking chances just to get an interception he needs to contain especially on those bite plays as a 15 yard gain easily becomes a touchdown.

The penalties will kill us on both sides of the ball and will cost us a few games if they don't settle down.

I am still looking forward to the season! (hopefully without that stupid Gridiron Mike, cripes I can't stand that college rah-rah-rah crap. Plus the song is stupid anyway).

[smogboy]

I am still looking forward to the season!

I think all football fans feel this way, not just Lions fans. We've seen a few encouraging signs from our team (some could argue how much lower could we go).

And while I will always be a little guarded about expectations I think I have realistic expectations of this team with over all team improvement. Since Millen's ineptness has been gone, just the sheer professionalism of this bunch has been stepped up (Lewand's incident has been the one lapse), the reliance on weak wobbly free agency has dropped, the commitment to rebuilding from within has begun, and there are some really nice pieces in place for the core of this team.

I really want to see not just the growth of the on field talent, but I want to see how Jim Schwartz will manage the play calling, clock management, and gamesmanship. He and his staff must step up their game as well. As much as I'm going to be cheering on Stafford's arm, Calvin's catches, Best's runs, Suh's aggressiveness, and other things that happen between the chalk lines- I really want to see Schwartz win a game for us.

[kenp]

I see an improved Defense but not enough talent yet. The Linebackers we have are not going to get it done this year and D backfield is very iffy especially if Delmas hasa bad injury as was rumored. Gotta hope the D-Line can come to the rescue. We better score a lot of pionts.
I perdict 6 wins

[jefferson78]

I wish I could agree with you but in the NFL you need good depth because of the likelihood of injuries and the Lions' have very little of it.
I think they will struggle to win 4 games.

[smogboy]

Kenp, Jefferson 78... I'll split the difference and make the wild prediction of five victories. My stab in the dark here is just based upon looking at the schedule and a pre-season gut call. Lord knows things will change as the season progresses. We'll have injuries, other teams will have injuries, and a whole litany of unforeseen things will happen over the span of the sixteen games. I'm sure we'll have a game stolen from us as well as we steal a game from someone else too. In the end, talent will bear out most of the time and while our beloved Lions have improved in most of the positions, we're still a ways from being a contender.

I'd also like to think (and hope) that Martin Mayhew is savvy enough to understand where this team is thin (thanks again, Millen) and will try to fill those needs in next year's draft. I can honestly see us snagging a linebacker or a corner with our first pic in 2011. After that, I think it should be devoted to the trenches again with the offense line being a bit more of a priority than the defensive line. But that's a discussion to have at the end of this upcoming season.

It's nice to at least have some hope for this team and discuss this rationally now. We know what our deficiencies are. We shouldn't delude ourselves to thinking that this team is suddenly the new Super Bowl contender. We know we're still missing a lot of pieces, but considering where we've been with those hideously dark dismal years of Millen, we're at least making somewhat of a climb back to relevancy. For those fans that really really hate the team, think we'll go 0-16 again, and bemoan how piss poor this bunch is- I ask the question "Why bother following the Lions team then?". Seriously- go cheer for a contender if your heart so desires. Why waste time following this team if it causes you so much misery? Now if you want to sit down Monday morning and discuss the game the day before in a rational way- let's bring it on! We can sing the team's praises and torch where they screwed up too. Let's be fair and balanced about the discussion.

[kenp]

I will always be a Lions fan, always hope for the best. We are getting better, still along way to go. Saw our schedule last night, wow its brutal. I guess Im stuck with 6 wins.

[gnome]

PRESEASONWk.DateOpponentTime (ET)TV1
August 14, 2010 at Pittsburgh Steelers (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/PIT) 7:30 PM WWJ-TV2
August 21, 2010 at Denver Broncos (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/DEN) 9:00 PM WWJ-TV2
August 28, 2010 vs. Cleveland Browns (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/CLE) 5:30 PM WWJ-TV4
September 2, 2010 vs. Buffalo Bills (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/BUF) 7:00 PM WWJ-TV

REGULAR SEAS
September 12, 2010 at Chicago Bears (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/CHI) 1:00 PM FOX
September 19, 2010 vs. Philadelphia Eagles (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/PHI) 1:00 PM FOX3
September 26, 2010at Minnesota Vikings (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/MIN)
1:00 PMFOX4
October 3, 2010at Green Bay Packers (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/GBP)
1:00 PMFOX5
October 10, 2010vs. St. Louis Rams (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/STL)
1:00 PMFOX6
October 17, 2010at New York Giants (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/NYG)
1:00 PM FOX
October 24, 2010---BYE WEEK---
October 31, 2010 vs. Washington Redskins (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/WAS)
1:00 PMFOX
November 7, 2010 vs. New York Jets (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/NYJ)
1:00 PMCBS
November 14, 2010 at Buffalo Bills (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/BUF)
1:00 PM FOX
November 21, 2010at Dallas Cowboys (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/DAL)
1:00 PMFOX
November 25, 2010vs. New England Patriots (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/NEP)*12:30 PM
CBS
December 5, 2010vs. Chicago Bears (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/CHI)1:00 PMFOX
December 12, 2010vs. Green Bay Packers (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/GBP)1:00 PMFOX
December 19, 2010at Tampa Bay Buccaneers (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/TAM)
1:00 PMFOX
December 26, 2010at Miami Dolphins (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/MIA)
1:00 PMFOX
January 2, 2011vs. Minnesota Vikings (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/MIN)1:00 PMFOX


every year I get lured into their hateful scheme. Again, I say the Lions are walking tall with 11 wins and then lose in the first round by a score of 0 - 2 after Matt loses his senses and runs out the back of his own endzone.

[smogboy]

[every year I get lured into their hateful scheme. Again, I say the Lions are walking tall with 11 wins and then lose in the first round by a score of 0 - 2 after Matt loses his senses and runs out the back of his own endzone.

We don't get lured in. We're fans! We're already in on this epic Greek tragedy of a team. The joke's been on us for years and yet we're loyal to a fault. No need to apologize at all. You're amongst fellow Lions fans here. We understand and can commiserate with you!

Now I can't tell if you truly believe the Lions will win 11 or if I'm missing the blaring Sarcasm Alarm here. I personally think they've improved but not to that degree. I would absolutely love it if you were the second coming of Nostradamus and were dead on right though. If they could win 11 so quickly after only a 2 win season, it would be absolutely amazing. I'd build a mink lined sedan chair to hoist Martin Mayhew up upon if that were the case. Oh... I can only dream.

[smogboy]

Random things to look forward to this year as a Lions fan…

1) Ndamukong Suh getting his first sack of the season.
2) Calvin Johnson & Matthew Stafford hooking up for a long bomb.
3) Jahvid Best breaking a move through the line and getting his first touchdown.
4) Jim Schwartz throwing the red hankie out there and winning a challenge (did Rod Marinelli ever win one?).
5) A convincing road victory... hell, any sort of road win.
6) Kyle VandenBosch chasing some poor beleaguered quarterback fifteen yards back from the line of scrimmage (someone queue up the Benny Hill theme music)
7) Louis Delmas laying the lick on some poor unsuspecting receiver brave enough to come into the middle.
8) Nate Burleson making a catch and having Calvin Johnson blocking and taking out two of his defenders him down field.
9) A better quarterback rating for Matthew Stafford.
10) No Millen sightings anywhere near the Detroit area. No Millen smellings either.

Mind you, they're in no particular order at all. They're not scientific by any stretch and I think they're all reasonably attainable. Any other things to look for in our team??

[GOAT]

Smogboy, going 11 wins after the 2 win seasonlast year would be great. But it is the Lions so we know that won't ever happen (the turnaround so quickly) unlike other teams in the NFL.

I love the list and they will all give me reasons to cheer. But Delmas has me questioning just how effective he will be this year with this groin injury. This might be a lot worse than we think and I believe may even taint his career should he not get back on track soon. The first couple years of a rookie (are they rookies after one year?) are their most important in their development.

I also think Stafford and Burleson along with Scheffler are going to do some serious damage.

IMO, I think Johnson is gone when his contract is up. Then we have the guaranteed lock out for next year unless the veterans pipe up about these outrageous rookie salaries. If there is a lockout next year we can kiss good progress for the Lions goodbye.

[sirrealone]

Stafford seems to be the real deal. Pro analysts whose job it is to know such things seem to think he's the real deal. All the folks who booed on draft day, thinking Aaron Curry should have been the choice, I'd love to know what they're doing these days.

The offense should be much improved. A more experienced Stafford, a guy (Burleson) who can legitimately take the pressure off Megatron, a RB that has break-loose potential, adding a TE that is another legit receiving threat (and opening the door to some two TE schemes, which I've been dreaming about for years), and a solid LG in Sims, should help the offense take some big strides.

The defenisve line is much improved and should mask some of the other problems. Still, there are too many problems for them to do a whole lot of good in the end. The linebacking corps is still incredibly thin. The d-backs, except for Delmas (who might be running at lower capacity) are terrible through and through.

Depth is another issue. They have depth at QB, WR (maybe), RB (maybe), TE, and the D-line, but outside of that, there really isn't any. When injuries hit, there will be some huge holes opened up.

All in all, I see this translating to five or six wins total for the year. They'll put a lot of points on the board and give a lot up. They'll be in games a lot longer than they have been.

I think another offseason, though, can really accomplish a lot. A CB drafted here, a LB signed there, continuing to upgrade the depth through free agency, trades, etc. Assuming there's no labor lockout in 2011, that should be the year that they legitimately start putting together a team that can be expected to compete. By then, they will still have holes and lack of depth at some key positions, but what NFL team in the free agency era doesn't? Still, another offseason of shrewd / smart moves by Mayhew plus another year of experience should really push this team where they need to be.

Until then, I hope the guys have fun. I hope that, even though they'll probably have more losses than wins, that the perpetual dark cloud of doom moves away from Ford Field. I hope they get better. I hope they beat Brett Favre once this year. I hope they stay relatively healthy. If all this can happen, I'm going to be happy watching Lions football this year.

[smogboy]

I hope they beat Brett Favre once this year.

Now that would be a nice thing to see happen. I would love to see Suh, VandenBosch or any one of the new Lions defensive crew chase Brett Favre around like a scared chicken in an alley way. Part of that desire is to have some reparation for all of the years Favre has torched our team and there's also some disgust I have for Favre's shafting of his old Green Bay fan base. He could've retired from Packer Nation a god; instead his fragile ego was hurt and now he looks really forward to beating them- wow, that's gratitude for years of fan loyalty. It's one thing to move to another team, play hard, and want to do well against your former team but he has some venom towards his previous team. Also all of this primadonna attitude that he displays with his current Vikings team is unreal. This coddling of this one player over the Team will be the downfall of Brad Childress in Minnesota soon.

So yeah, let's go beat Brett Favre.

[smogboy]

Generally I don't give two hoots about a pre-season game but I just wanted to chime in on how impressive I thought our first team offense looked against the Broncos first team defense. It was actually interesting to see how masterful and, dare I say how calm Matthew Stafford looked in the pocket. He ran the offense with what seemed like relative ease; he marched the team down the field, mixed the play selection up between run & pass, and really didn't hit the turf that much. Despite only a minor tweak in obtaining Rob Sims, the line held up pretty well in protecting our QB. Part of that might be attributed to the other team's reluctance to pin their ears back because they have to respect the run, a tight end rolling out or a toss to Burleson or Johnson. So overall praise to the first team offense with the minor caveat of not performing well in the red zone.

Yes, it's nice that we still put up point on the board with field goals BUT it sure as heck would be a lot nicer if we could punch it in and get 7. I'm not sure if our team just performs better in the open field and we can work vertically a little more but I hope Schwartz will address our red zone effectiveness soon. Whether it's more handoffs to a Jerome Felton, swing out passes to a flairing tight end or something- we just need to be much more effective within the other team's 20 yard line.

As it stands now, this team looks as though it's going to have to win games with their offense. Shoot outs are going to be the norm from the looks of things just because defensively we're just not there yet. The few times the Denver O line blocked out our rush, Orton had a field day picking apart the seam between the linebackers and secondary. Maybe against a less mobile QB, we could have some more sacks and hurries but we're still quite a way from forcing the other team to have three and outs.

Again- it's pre-season, so absolutely no worries yet. It's still make believe and it's audition time for the depth guys. Work out the kinks, figure out the timing, instill some confidence, and build up some momentum for the real games now.

[d.mcc]

I know I am already thinking ahead of time, but I am thinking we end up with the 6th-7th pick of the draft. Now, homerism abound here, and my green and white might be showing a lot here, Greg Jones is an All-American LB who is a stud Middle Linebacker. I am not saying he's a top 10 candidate, but who knows if we can't trade out of the top ten, snag him in the mids, and pick up another 2nd or 3rd round pick. That affords us the chance to get some decent CB picks in there...

I still think we get 6 wins this year, and 9-10 next season

[Lowell]

They won? On the Road? Is this the end?

[smogboy]

They won? On the Road? Is this the end?

Not yet Lowell. 'Twas pre-season. I wouldn't look too much into it just yet, but I'm hoping for a real road victory to start off the season in Chicago though.

[kenp]

Greg Jones is an All-American LB who is a stud Middle Linebacker.


Greg Jones is a good college player, that doesnt have anything to do with the pros. He is undersized for a pro middle linebacker. Thats the reason he didnt go pro after his Junior year.

[d.mcc]

Greg Jones is a good college player, that doesnt have anything to do with the pros. He is undersized for a pro middle linebacker. Thats the reason he didnt go pro after his Junior year.

Oh, I am aware, but the fact that he's put on another 15 lbs of muscle, with sideline to sideline speed. That's why you trade out of the top-10 and pick up a few extra picks. Every indication says that he will be a Mid to late first-round pick next season. If he stays healthy, well... depending on another 140+ tackle season, he could be a smart draft choice that has the potential to be a very serviceable MLB in the NFL

[Bong-Man]

Although I certainly am willing to acknowledge an improvement in the defensive line, this team still sucks....and playing .500 ball this year is a pipe dream. In our struggle to go 2-30 over the last couple years, some people seem to forget that our defense was so bad that no one even really ever had to test our secondary. Why throw when you can run to your heart's content ? Once teams have to throw the ball, they are going to march up and down the field in big chunks. Corey Williams is a nice addition, but talk to me halfway thru the 3rd quarter when he's sucking some air.

I also still don't think this offensive line is capable of playing .500 ball either. Raiola and Backus have never accomplished that in 10 years, and it isn't going to happen now.

None of this is a knock against our coaching staff. They know where the problems and weak links are. This team's problems can't be solved in two drafts.

Gosder.....Just another wasted pick, and Lomas Brown knew it after one practice session of watching his feet.

[kenp]

this team still sucks....and playing .500 ball this year is a pipe dream.

We should be able to put more pressure on the QB and hopefully do a better job of letting runners get past the line. After that we suck.
We are still a work in progress, and I totally agree with Bong-Man.

[Detroit Stylin]

Now that would be a nice thing to see happen. I would love to see Suh, VandenBosch or any one of the new Lions defensive crew chase Brett Favre around like a scared chicken in an alley way. Part of that desire is to have some reparation for all of the years Favre has torched our team and there's also some disgust I have for Favre's shafting of his old Green Bay fan base. He could've retired from Packer Nation a god; instead his fragile ego was hurt and now he looks really forward to beating them- wow, that's gratitude for years of fan loyalty. It's one thing to move to another team, play hard, and want to do well against your former team but he has some venom towards his previous team. Also all of this primadonna attitude that he displays with his current Vikings team is unreal. This coddling of this one player over the Team will be the downfall of Brad Childress in Minnesota soon.

So yeah, let's go beat Brett Favre.


Front office decision making wanted Favre to retire when he left. THATS why he left not becuase of how the media is portraying him to be a primadonna. The Idiots in Packers management felt that it would be nice for Favre to retire when Favre felt totally different. Looking at him and how he plays now does he LOOK like he needs to retire?

[GOAT]

DS, you may be correct in that Favre didn't want to reture but his last minute antics at both the Jets and Minnesota plus his retire, not retiring charade has gone on long enough for every one.

I for one am glad he is back at Minnesota. It only delays the inevitable in that the Vikings will have noone at QB when Favre is gone. This happens when Detroit will start to move up the food chain so the longer he stays the better for the Lions.

[sirrealone]

Front office decision making wanted Favre to retire when he left. THATS why he left not becuase of how the media is portraying him to be a primadonna. The Idiots in Packers management felt that it would be nice for Favre to retire when Favre felt totally different. Looking at him and how he plays now does he LOOK like he needs to retire?

Favre had been hinting at hanging up the cleats for a couple of years, so the Packers did what any other NFL team would consider and drafted his eventual successor. Had Favre come out in 2003 and 2004 and said "Hey, I plan on playing for another five or six years as long as I can stay healthy", then Aaron Rodgers would be playing for another team and Favre would still be in a Packers uniform. But, even back then he was dropping hints that he was about done, but then as soon as the Packers drafted Rodgers, he got all huffy, acting like the Packers were pushing him out, refusing to even acknowledge Rodgers for years though he was no threat to his starting job.

Eventually the Packers were forced into a tough decision. When it became apparent that Rodgers would either have to be traded or be elevated, they faced a tough choice. Remember, Favre at that point was still dropping hints about hanging it up soon. So, while it seems like the mean old Packers turned their backs on Favre, how silly would they have looked if they got rid of Rodgers and Favre went and retired anyways. Him retiring seems silly now given his antics over the past few years but at the time, it was a very real possibility.

Again, all this could have been avoided had Brett Favre been more decisive, more mature, and more up front. The fact that he hates the Packers now and feels wronged by them is absolutely disgusting to me. You can fall for his 'aw, shucks' attitude, but if you look at everything that's happened over the last five years or so, he's proven that he is only happy when he has the spotlight shining squarely on him. I have no problem when guys demand that on the field, but he demands it off the field as well, and that is where I draw the line. Make no mistake, Mr. Aw Shucks puts himself first 100% of the time. Above his teammates, above his coaches, above his teams owners, above his fans, and above the game. He's only happy when he's above all those things, and I refuse to enable him by supporting that kind of attitude.

In short, he's a fine football player, one of the best that there's ever been, but that doesn't excuse him for also being one of the biggest a-holes there's been. And in this day in age of the selfish athlete, it takes a lot to be as big of a d-bag as he's become.

[smogboy]

Rather than hijack this Lions thread into a Bash on Brett Favre thread, I'll simply state that I think the Packers management wasn't exactly guilt free in all of him leaving but Favre had to move on (what was Aaron Rodgers going to do?). I just wish Favre would've done it in a classier, much more mature sort of way. Coming out and wanting to beat his old team is one thing but to openly crave it is just plain vindictive towards not just the Packers team (whatever happened to his old team mates?) but to the fans there as well. He is a primadonna because of what he does off the field and not because of what he does on the field.

I, for one am thankful that our Lions team doesn't have that sort of selfish play- or of there is, it's not openly obvious. It seems as of late that Mayhew & Schwartz have gotten players with some character and integrity. We're slowly building towards a long term sort of success. I'm going to feel for the Vikings fans for their short sighted lunge at the Super Bowl. They've catered to one player who is obviously in the twilight of his career and while we're nowhere near that pinnacle of success, I can see us doing better and possibly being a destination for other free agents to come to while they'll be in their primes of their careers if we can maintain this sort of continue improvement.

[smogboy]

Jake Delhomme 20- 25
Seneca Wallace 4-9
Colt McCoy 10- 14

Those numbers there should temper any over the top, hyper enthusiastic Lions fan about our defense. We're getting picked apart like the pulled pork at a southern cookout. And it was by Cleveland... yes, Cleveland and their no-name offense. If this is a trend that is going to continue and we're going to have any chance of being in games, we're in for a season of Arena Football type of scores. Heck, maybe even WNBA scores.

[Downriviera]

At least the losses will be more exciting.

[d.mcc]

Jake Delhomme 20- 25
Seneca Wallace 4-9
Colt McCoy 10- 14

Those numbers there should temper any over the top, hyper enthusiastic Lions fan about our defense. We're getting picked apart like the pulled pork at a southern cookout. And it was by Cleveland... yes, Cleveland and their no-name offense. If this is a trend that is going to continue and we're going to have any chance of being in games, we're in for a season of Arena Football type of scores. Heck, maybe even WNBA scores.


Ya know... my feelings about the defense in general are tempered, but don't discount Clevelands Offense...

Jake Delhomme isn't a slouch, Josh Cribbs is a multi-threat player, Hillis, Harrison, and Hardesty are no bad either...

had we been dismantled by say the Bears or Rams... well then.

[GOAT]

I'll agree with Smogboy. Every game is going to be a shoot-out because that secondary is going to be the worst in the league. Now Levy is hurt! King is a bum, our special teams are bums (except Follett who should stay there and only there). Cripes, good luck.

I have revised my prediction to read 4 wins.

[smogboy]

our special teams are bums (except Follett who should stay there and only there).

I've always wondered what is truly the magic to having great special teams. These guys always seem to be second or third string linebackers, tight ends, wide receivers and guys who ride the pine for the majority of the game. Outside of a few specialists like Don Muhlbach, Jason Hanson, Nick Harris, and the return folks (who seem to be shaping up to be Nate Burleson & Aaron Brown right now)- we hardly even know the other folks. Sure there are times when there's a Hands Team out there to handle a squib kick and that can actually consists of some starting wideouts, but for the most part- we barely know who they are!

Sure we broomed Stan Kwan out of Ford Field, but can we really expect any difference with Danny Crossman?

I've heard of strategies such as directional kicking, kicking out of bounds, away from certain return guys, and all sorts of formations- but isn't this something dictated by the head coach as far as a strategy? I've heard that Jason Hanson is really liking this strategy of being able to boom a kick deep and not letting the opposition return the kick- but is it really his call to make?

Special Teams in the NFL to me is one of the least understood aspects of the game and yet it seems so critical to a team's success/ failure. I wonder if we'll actually see any marked improvement with our Detroit Lions this year compared to years before.

[sirrealone]

I agree that I don't know the magic behind it but I think the importance is often understated as to having good special teams. Special teams dictates the starting position of any drive. I always noted that the Lions seemed to start further back and their opponents seemed to start further ahead with everything else being equal. A few yards might not seem like a big deal but if you're talking a disparity of five or six yards with every change of possession, that adds up really quick over the course of a sixty minute game.

The Lions, quite simply, have a horrible defense and the other teams are going to score a lot of points on them. A decent special teams unit will at least make the other team earn it by forcing them to make an 80 yard drive versus a 65 or 70 yard drive.

The Lions, also, have been noted for their red zone scoring difficultiies. Maybe taking ten yards off the top on the return game would make it a little easier to put those finishing touches on a drive that would lead to more TDs.

How? I don't know, but I sure do know that Stan Kwan never seemed to be able to coach the guys up and/or put in schemes that got anything favorable done, and Marinelli seemed to all but ignore the importance of special teams (he was in over his head with the offense and defense so this is not surprising).

If thie Lions can get this right, it can make a huge difference in their game.

[gnome]

lulO_Uw58Sw
suh ties to take home a souvenr Browns helmet xcept he forgot jake delhome's head was still inside.

[Downriviera]

Here I go again, getting excited about the Lions. For sure they are improved, on paper. They have been improved on paper before and faltered. You know where you can file that paper. This team doesn't need draft picks, free agents, new coaches, etc. It needs an exorcist to rid it of the curse.

[jefferson78]

Here I go again, getting excited about the Lions. For sure they are improved, on paper. They have been improved on paper before and faltered. You know where you can file that paper. This team doesn't need draft picks, free agents, new coaches, etc. It needs an exorcist to rid it of the curse.
It has to be a curse. How else would you explain the events that have happened to this franchise?
-Eddie Murray's field goal attempt miss vs San Fran in the NFC title game
-Chuck Hughes, Eric Andolsek, Corey Smith
-Reggie Brown, Mike Utley, Reggie Rogers
-Barry Sanders retiring prematurely
-Matt Millen
I could go on and on but faithful Lions fans know what I'm talking about.
Question is, how do they go about removing a curse? Maybe over time it's energy will dissipate and their fortune will go the other direction. We can only hope.

[kenp]

It has to be a curse. How else would you explain the events that have happened to this franchise?


Also there were others that should be mentioned.
When I was a kid our head coach, Don McCafferty died at camp.
Waynes brother Len Fontes had a heart attack and in the 60's Lucien Reeberg a rookie trying to loose mass weight died.

Also its a shame to always blame Eddie Murray on that loss. Gary Danielson threw 5 picks that game but nobody remembers that.

[jefferson78]

Also its a shame to always blame Eddie Murray on that loss. Gary Danielson threw 5 picks that game but nobody remembers that.[/quote]

You are probably right. It was a long time ago and all I remember was the kick at the end and how I thought we may never get this close again.
What hurt was Eddie was money for most of his kicks from that distance.

[sirrealone]

I think that the Lions have been 'cursed' not so much because of a real curse but because of a lack of ability to lay a solid foundation and then build on it. Yes, there are many tragedies such as deaths or injuries, but those can and do happen for multiple teams and aren't exclusive to the Lions. You had the guy from the Broncos that was shot and killed. Chris Henry on the Bengals died tragically. There was a lineman I think on the Bears (Gaines Adams?) that died.

But, going back to their lack of success, as I said before they often didn't really lay a foundation and build on it. I think you're seeing a group of decision makers now that are attempting to do that. From early indications, they seem to be doing an excellent job of that. They are finding guys with talent, with heart, and with a passion and thirst for the game. They're trying to build stability.

Even in the 90's, when they made the playoffs six times in nine years, they really didn't have stability. They changed quarterbacks like most of us change socks. They fired and hired new coordinators. They implemented the run-and-shoot and promptly abandoned it. On paper, their record was pretty good but their lack of playoff success, their lack of direction, and the fact that their star player couldn't stand it continued to keep the Lions on the outside looking in when it came to organizations that were considered well run and a place for players to come who wanted more than to just collect a paycheck. You can blame Millen for a lot, but the life of this organization started fading away when Barry retired. Millen just pounded the nails in the coffin.

I think now you're finally starting to see new life. This is the first time I remember (I'm 36) that they are building from the bottom up and not doing so in a gimmicky way. I really respect Jim Schwartz. Him being there reminds me of the theme throughout the TV show ER, where various doctors in charge are told at one point 'You set the tone.' That's what the head coach does. You don't have him parading around like a buffoon (Fontes), trying the tough love act (Marty), doing the ranting and raving act (Ross), or trying to be the martyr (Marinelli). You have a guy that knows and delivers the fundamentals, someone who manages the game, someone who knows what it takes to recognize and bring out talent, and who knows and can teach the X's and O's. If Schwartz can continue to show those things and really can 'set the tone', I think you'll see a remarkable football team within the next couple of seasons.

[jefferson78]

I hope you're right sirrealone, I desperately want a reason to watch them on Sunday afternoons. I want a reason to watch the NFL other than see what my fantasy players are doing. I want to root for this team with all of my heart and cherish a hard fought victory all week and know that opponents will someday fear the Lions. I want to watch the playoffs with realistic expectations that our team from Detroit has a shot to make it to the ultimate stage.
I'm happy with their direction, but I am cautious. They still have a long way to go. And every time I see a stupid penalty or turnover my stomach gets weak and I have to fight the urge to change the channel.
Like a spurned lover, it will take time to get over the wounds incurred over the last decade.
I'm glad that the "laughingstock" label is beginning to shed. I only hope I have the patience that's required to be a "true" Lions fan.

[kenp]

I think it really comes down to 3 men.
Mr Ford, Russ Thomas and finally Matt Millen.
Thomas ran the team to save money for Ford. Even when we started getting good in the early 70's Joe Schimdt couldnt take it any more and left. We had a few decent years and some mediocre years until the hiring of Matt Millen, now here we are.

[smogboy]

I think all of us Lions fans want this team to do well. For now, I think the best that we might be able to achieve this year is a slight measure of respectability. Now that's not saying much but considering how utterly and completely Matt Millen decimated this team during his recent reign of terror, we can only have one place to go and that's up.

We can torch Russ Thomas for quite a bit but he at least had teams that came a lot closer to a playoff spot than what we had as of late. I still remember how angrily and honestly Al Ackerman would berate him in his commentaries; they almost seemed personal.

And throughout all of this is our team's owner William Clay Ford. Some people think that the Lions are his personal play toy and he really doesn't care about them as long as the team is making money some how some way. I'm not one to crucify the man for that just yet. Obviously the buck stops at the top with him, but I don't recall as of late seeing him be cheap and chintzy with regards to going out and signing free agents. And let's not forget that he did pony up the bulk of the money for the new stadium. I sincerely think that he and the rest of the NFL team owners have some measure of pride in their teams. Seeing his team go 0-16 probably stung Ford, seeing the stadium somewhat empty hurt him, and I'm sure being around the other NFL owners knowing that your team is the runt of the litter can't be a good thing for the ego either. His biggest fault to date is not being able to assess management beneath him (Thomas and Millen) and then being too loyal to them. There were times when he should've just taken the hard stance, made the better business decision by canning them as opposed to looking these two grinning idiots in the face and trusting them.

Now just maybe... just maybe old man Ford has finally stumbled upon the right people in Mayhew and Lewand to run this team. All indications are looking good that they've drafted pretty well and have hired a young sharp football mind in Jim Schwartz- who won't embarrass the team at press conferences, provide sports talk shows with ridiculous sound bytes, and be in over his head. So far so good over the last few seasons, but again- having dropped so far down, the only place is to go up. There are some nice young pieces in place that have been acquired because of the draft and hopefully they can be the core of a pretty solid future.

Beyond what we fans feel, let's see how this young core group of guys feel when their contracts are up. Will they still believe in the system that Mayhew/ Lewand/ Schwartz have put in place or are they immediately jumping ship in pursuit of a championship and maybe more money? Will a Calvin Johnson/ Matthew Stafford combination be the next benchmark of a great WR/QB combination for years to come or is this team just a stepping off point for the better players? Good teams find a way to retain their players. Good teams attract other good free agents. Good teams find a way to replenish their system with smart draft picks.

So let's altogether as Lions fans hope that our team can attain this. We've suffered long enough. We've had our hopes dashed and we've been left hung out to dry. This season will hopefully be a tempering of the young talent and a part of the evolution of this team becoming one of the elite teams in the league. I'm sure this is the hope of every team in the NFL, but then we don't exactly cheer for every team in the league- we cheer for our guys in Honolulu Blue & Silver every week.

[sirrealone]

My hope for this year is that people don't have too high of expectations and that they look at progress in ways other than wins and losses. People these days seem to be focused on instant gratification, and I can see now that if this team wins only a few games that people will be down on the Lions and claim that they make no progress. Personally, I don't expect them to win more than six games this year. I've said all along that I think 2011 is the earliest shot that they have at contending for anything meaningful.

But, I'll be looking for progress in other ways:

1. Will Stafford show that he has the tools to be a top-tier QB in the NFL? Look at the number of TDs he throws, the number of picks he throws, and how he takes control of this team.

2. Will the offense be able to punch it in after entering the red zone? The red zone offense has been nothing short of atrocious the past couple of seasons. They have got to find a way to march down the field and not stall out once they hit the 20 yard line.

3. Can they avoid stupid penalties especially on first down plays? When I watch top-tier teams like Indy, NE, New Orleans, they make big plays and keep penalties to a minimum. When I watch the Lions and I see them make a play over 30 yards, or even resulting in a first down, I wait for the almost inevitable whistle and the holding call. Those are drive killers and they need to stop.

4. Can the defensive line be as solid as advertised? The linebackers and secondary are pretty much hopeless, I think everybody knows that. The only part of this defense that is expected to perform well is the line, and I want to see that. A solid line will allow them to ignore the line during next years draft and free agent hunt.

5. Can Schwartz keep Megatron motivated and believing? Many of the 'building blocks' will have only been into this thing for a year or two and can see the big picture. CJ is the one guy that I'm worried about as, if they go say 5-11 this year, would stand to get frustrated at going 7-41 over three seasons. The last thing we can have happen is to have Calvin mentally check out or start looking for a way out when we are potentially on the cusp of being able to deliver the goods in 2011.

6. Not directly related to the Lions, but the owners and players have to avoid a 2011 lockout. Losing the 2011 season would be the worst thing possible for the Lions, as that could/should be their year to start shining. Losing any part of that season would stunt the development of many key young guys and would let the losing (assuming they are below .500 this year) settle in. This can't happen. A lockout / strike would probably show that the Lions truly are cursed.

[jiminnm]

kenp, don't forget Nick Eddy.

[smogboy]

Thank the merciful heavens that the preseason is finally done with and the majority of the starters are somewhat healthy. But prior to salivating for the first game against the Bears, the hard decisions have got to be made now. Cuts and it looks as though the Lions brain trust will actually have some harder decisions to make than other years (where we nearly wanted to scrub the entire team and hit the re-set button). And even with the cuts, it will also behoove us to see what other teams have cut and maybe a pick up here or there couldn't hurt.

I think beyond the draft, this has got to be where the likes of Mayhew/ Lewand/ Schwartz will earn their keep. Not only will they have to pare this team down to the 53 required players, but they will also look to supplement where they think is needed. This is the final tinker. And even beyond that, what I've always felt for some of these guys who get cut- this could be it. They've played this game the majority of their lives and they'll be done. I don't envy the coaches or team higher-ups that have to call these guys into their office to give them the broom. It's a tough business on and off the field.

[smogboy]

CB Dre Bly
DT Rob Callaway
LB Caleb Campbell
LB Vinny Ciurciu
WR Brian Clark
DT Landon Cohen
RB DeDe Dorsey
G Noah Franklin
C Dan Gerberry
K Steven Hauschka
CB Jonathan Hefney
T Jon Jansen
CB Eric King
T Cliff Louis
WR Michael Moore
CB Paul Pratt
CB T.J. Rushing
SS Ko Simpson
WR Tim Toone
CB Dante Wesley
DT Jaron Baston
DE Korey Bosworth

All got cut or released from the Lions.

I'm sure it wasn't easy for Jim Schwartz to let these guys know that they didn't make the team despite all the weeks of hard work they've put in. Ultimately underneath all of that sweaty helmet is still a guy who's trying to make a living. Some of these guys might make the practice squad, some of these guys will pick up work with other teams, and some will just fade off into the sunset knowing that they once gave it their all in a real NFL tryout.

[Big Dog]

K. Smith, should have been cut, and Dorsey kept.

[smogboy]

K. Smith, should have been cut, and Dorsey kept.

I think part of the reason Kevin Smith was kept was that he's still on the mend from his injury. While Kevin Smith isn't exactly an explosive back out of the backfield, he's none too shabby as far as a blocker and a decent threat to catch the ball. Even with a shortened season last year, he was still the team's third best overall receiver and tops in YAC.

That being said I don't think it's a knock against DeDe Dorsey and his abilities either. I thought he came in with a bit of an edge and played well too. But coming down to choosing one of the two, I think familiarity helped Smith too. The management knew him, he knew the playbook and it was just more comfortable of a fit.

And let's also be honest here, Jahvid Best is going to be the feature back here. He's much more explosive than either Smith or Dorsey and can actually put a bit of a scare into the other team's defenses. Come to think of it, Smith's blocking ability might be a part of why they kept him- he could very well be counted to help block if the Lions decide to go into a two back set.

Either way, it was actually nice to see our team even have somewhat of a surplus at a position to even have this conversation. In years past, it'd almost be bare bones or one feature back and the talent drop off from him fell off drastically.

[smogboy]

Hmm... Dennis Northcutt got let go too.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20100905/SPORTS0101/9050323/Lions-claim-versatile-Havner--release-Northcutt

And we pick up a guy who can play both sides of the ball in Spencer Havner. Interesting considering the amount of money ($1,550,000) and commitment that was tied into him being the slot guy.

Also a nice story happening with Caleb Campbell being signed on with the practice squad. On the human interest side of things, he seems like a good story happening there with his military commitment and desire to keep his NFl dream afloat.

[GOAT]

I have revised my predication for this year to 4-12. The secondary is just too horrible to get any other wins. In fact I think all games will be shoot-outs.

Can't wait for the season to begin! GO LIONS! ! !

[gnome]

9-7, make the playoffs but lose on a botched handoff/fumble leading to a 98 yard runback as time runs out.

1 - Sep 12 - DET @ CHI - Soldier Field - 1:00 PM - FOX
2 - Sep 19 - PHI @ DET - Ford Field - 1:00 PM - FOX
3 - Sep 26 - DET @ MIN - Mall of America Field - 1:00 PM - FOX
4 - Oct 03 - DET @ GB - Lambeau Field - 1:00 PM - FOX
5 - Oct 10 - STL @ DET - Ford Field - 1:00 PM - FOX
6 - Oct 17 - DET @ NYG - New Meadowlands Stadium - 1:00 PM - FOX
7 - Bye
8 - Oct 31 - WAS @ DET - Ford Field - 1:00 PM - FOX
9 - Nov 07 - NYJ @ DET - Ford Field - 1:00 PM - CBS
10 - Nov 14 - DET @ BUF - Ralph Wilson Stadium - 1:00 PM - FOX
11 - Nov 21 - DET @ DAL - Cowboys Stadium - 1:00 PM - FOX
12 - Nov 25 - NE @ DET - Ford Field - 12:30 PM - CBS
13 - Dec 05 - CHI @ DET - Ford Field - 1:00 PM - FOX
14 - Dec 12 - GB @ DET - Ford Field - 1:00 PM - FOX
15 - Dec 19 - DET @ TB - Raymond James Stadium - 1:00 PM - FOX
16 - Dec 26 - DET @ MIA - Sun Life Stadium - 1:00 PM - FOX
17 - Jan 02 - MIN @ DET - Ford Field - 1:00 PM - FOX

[smogboy]

I have revised my predication for this year to 4-12. The secondary is just too horrible to get any other wins. In fact I think all games will be shoot-outs.

Can't wait for the season to begin! GO LIONS! ! !

I'm one game more optimistic than you with a five win season predicted. Shoot outs could be fun to watch but if one's a fan of a defensive game, it could be torturous. Defense will win championships and that's the primary reason why our team isn't ready for the big time yet.

I think the Lions have improved in almost every category but it's still not enough to put us into the elite. I can't wait for this Sunday!

[Big Dog]

I agree, 5 wins is a hell of a lot short, of being elite.

[Bong-Man]

I predict 4, but I could easily see less than that. Injuries could kill us early. There is no depth anywhere except defensive line, we have a tough schedule, and we play in a tough division. We have the worst quarterback in the division until he proves different. Our secondary, linebackers, and offensive line, are the same cast of characters or worse that just went 2-30. Things change fast in the NFL, but not for this team.....Don't be fooled ! We're not one draft away.....we're three !

[smogboy]

I predict 4, but I could easily see less than that. Injuries could kill us early. There is no depth anywhere except defensive line, we have a tough schedule, and we play in a tough division. We have the worst quarterback in the division until he proves different. Our secondary, linebackers, and offensive line, are the same cast of characters or worse that just went 2-30. Things change fast in the NFL, but not for this team.....Don't be fooled ! We're not one draft away.....we're three !

Four wins won't be out of the question. My prediction of five is that luck will finally blow our way maybe once and we steal a game here or there.

As far as injuries go, they could strike ANY team. One key player here or there and most teams would have to re-think their strategy. It's something no one can actively plan for or find a way to avoid them. Statistically our QB is the worst in the division but I doubt if too many people would prefer to have Jay Cutler here as opposed to Matt Stafford. Aaron Rodger is the real deal and Brett Favre really isn't anywhere near to what he once was as a QB; he's mighty lucky to have an immensely talented team around him.

With regards to the "same cast of characters" I would have to disagree. The only one returning from last year in the secondary is Louis Delmas- and he's one I want back! I think we've made an improvement back there from the 2009 cast of characters with regards to overall team speed and coverage. What remains to be seen back there is can they play as a unit. I don't think they've done that yet, but again on paper, I see the slight improvement from last year.

I will have to agree that we've dropped quite a bit off in the linebacking group. Outside of Julian Peterson whose role just has never been truly defined here, the rest of the group back there just doesn't look like an imposing bunch.

Offensive line I think with the return of Stephen Peterman and the signing of Rob Sims, again I see an upgrade. It's not the most dominating of lines but I think that Stafford's array of weapons will help take some of the pressure off of these guys. A QB with a quick release and an explosive running back like Jahvid Best will make sure that the opposing teams just won't be pinning their ears back. If we can mange the ball properly and avoiding third and longs, I think the line can do an effective job.

I would agree that we are at least three drafts away ONLY if we were to solely rely on the draft to help this team. I look at places on this current team where we've made upgrades without the use of the draft. Look at signings like Nate Burleson, Rob Sims, Corey Williams, Kyle Vanden Bosch, and Shaun Hill- these are some pretty decent acquisitions via free agency and trades. Some of the others especially in the secondary could also prove to be young discarded diamonds from other teams too. I think that Mayhew/ Lewand/ Schwartz knows that our situation here won't be resolved over night and might take a few years. Three? I think we can do it in two, given that we don't get locked out and we can snag a few more free agents and maneuver some smart trades.

Now before one is going to accuse me of sipping the Blue & Silver Kool-Aid, it's obviously still a game that's played between the chalk. These are just my observations, opinions and thoughts. I think this team has risen from the quagmire that Millen dropped behind and while we're still some time away from being elite, I know we'll make some real improvement with this group too.

Bring on the games!

[sirrealone]

I predict 4, but I could easily see less than that. Injuries could kill us early. There is no depth anywhere except defensive line, we have a tough schedule, and we play in a tough division. We have the worst quarterback in the division until he proves different. Our secondary, linebackers, and offensive line, are the same cast of characters or worse that just went 2-30. Things change fast in the NFL, but not for this team.....Don't be fooled ! We're not one draft away.....we're three !

I disagree with a lot of this but I can see where it comes from. This team has been bad for quite a long time and depth is a concept that we haven't been familiar with for years.

However, I think we have improved depth at a lot more positions than just the d-line, and that a lot of the pieces that have been added are certainly not the same cast of characters.

The backup QB is probably a better option than most of the starters we trotted out for most of the 2000's. He's proven to be a dependable option and he knows his role here and is happy with that.

RB looks a lot better to me with Best-Smith-Brown-Morris than even a year ago when you had Smith-Morris-Brown-???? I'll take that any day.

Burleson is a much better option at number two WR than BJohnson. BJohnson has always functioned best as a third option so that bunch is improved.

TE added Scheffler which gives you a better receiving option and sets up the possibility for some two TE sets, which is a set of plays that I don't think many Lions fans know even exist.

Adding Sims at guard improves the entire o-line. There's not great depth there but it's certainly an improvement over last year.

Look around the NFL and ask how many teams have 22 legit starters AND a full set of backup players that provides adequate depth at every position. The answer is none. It's just not possible in the free agency / salary cap era. Every team out there has holes somewhere. If the goal here is to have a perfect team, then we're never going to have it. You're always going to have additions based on guys developing, guys you add from the draft, guys signed or traded for, but you're also going to have subtractions through guys leaving, guys declining in skill, and of course injuries. The goal is to have your additions greater than your subtractions. I can't see how anyone can argue that this hasn't been the case over the last two off seasons.

Bong-Man, go look at the depth chart for the team in 2008 and look at the depth chart for this team. Can you honestly say that the talent level hasn't been improved? Even though we have a long way to go to be at the same talent level of the better teams, I don't know anybody that would say that we haven't made improvements virtually across the board compared to what we had two years go.

[smogboy]

sirrealone. I would have to concur with you quite a bit here. Again on paper and stats I think the Lions have improved across the board. The only position I think where the Lions dropped off is in the linebacking group... again, on paper losing Ernie Sims and Larry Foote and replacing them with Zach Follett and a questionable DeAndre Levy (or Landon Johnson) right now doesn't strike me as an upgrade. But then this group is unproven much like the rest of the team.

We honestly can't say how this team has really improved until we see them in action this Sunday. And even then, it's going to be a continuing saga as this group tries to gel. The guys in the secondary haven't even played together as a unit in all of pre-season yet. The trust in a guy like Rob Sims has to be gained through some experience. While Matthew Stafford has practiced extensively with Burleson, Sheffler and Best- these are all new weapons at his disposal. It'll be a work in progress as this bunch tries to come together.

We're not perfect on paper and I can guarantee that this team won't be perfect on the field either, but I can sincerely hope that the play on the field will be a little more competitive. I can sincerely hope that we never go back to an 0-16 season. There are no guarantees for any of the NFL teams this year; at this point I think nearly every team has to have the attitude of "we can make it to the Super Bowl". The reality of it is only going to happen to two teams and one will walk away known as the loser despite being better than all of the other teams that can't even get close to the pinnacle.

As fans of our own respective teams, we're in for the ride and it starts up this Sunday.

[royce]

I've noticed the home teams in some of the games wearing their away jerseys at home. Is this the look for the NFL this year? Will the Lions play in their white jerseys during home games?

[Downriviera]

The home team has the choice of which jersey to wear each game. I think with the warmer temps and bright sun, the Bears went white for this game. I don't care what anyone says, that was a f**king touch down.

[EastsideAl]

Complete and total screwjob on the Lions today. Unless they've changed the rules, 2 feet down in the end zone with possession is a TOUCHDOWN dammit. It was almost like the refs couldn't accept that the Lions had actually won the game, so tried to come up with whatever criteria they could think of to get an acceptable result..

[smogboy]

Complete and total screwjob on the Lions today. Unless they've changed the rules, 2 feet down in the end zone with possession is a TOUCHDOWN dammit. It was almost like the refs couldn't accept that the Lions had actually won the game, so tried to come up with whatever criteria they could think of to get an acceptable result..

I'm speechless. Absolutely speechless now.

[staticstate]

ya'll got screwed. worst call ever.

[Genesyxx]

Apparently, Jim Joyce works NFL games also.

[gumby]

Horse shit call.

[jiminnm]

Here's one explanation.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Pereira-explains-big-call-in-Detroit-Lions-Chicago-Bears-game-091210

[daddeeo]

How do they explain the call where a guy just catches the ball over the line and then drops it after getting creamed?
They always call that a touchdown!!!

[Downriviera]

Here's one explanation.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Pereira-explains-big-call-in-Detroit-Lions-Chicago-Bears-game-091210

I think color commentator and ex coach Billick is the only one who got it right. As Billick said, he made a second move after he secured the ball. He possesed the ball with both feet down. He was in total control of the ball as he put it on the ground. Otherwise, every receiver who scores a touchdown and immediately spikes the ball in celebration would be ruled incomplete.

[EastsideAl]

I think color commentator and ex coach Billick is the only one who got it right. As Billick said, he made a second move after he secured the ball. He possesed the ball with both feet down. He was in total control of the ball as he put it on the ground. Otherwise, every receiver who scores a touchdown and immediately spikes the ball in celebration would be ruled incomplete.

I couldn't agree more.

But I also think the rule itself, and its purpose, has been misinterpreted here. The point of that rule is to deal with plays where players catch the ball while airborne and go down on their side or back. The rule states "If a player goes to ground while catching a pass ... he must maintain control after touching the ground" But Johnson caught the ball coming down on his feet, and had already caught the pass (possession, both feet on ground, second move) BEFORE going down. That should be the end of it right there, but even if you go to the second part of the rule they're wrong, since if you look at the replay carefully he was also clearly in control of the ball after he touched the ground until he was all the way down (that is to say until he would have been whistled down on any other play). He didn't let go of the ball until he went to get up.

The definition of the play given on that Fox Sports site would mean that all kinds of plays that have previously been touchdowns won't be anymore, and that no play is actually over until the player gets up with the ball and literally hands the ball to the ref. If that's the interpretation of this rule that the NFL is now going to use - one not supported by what the rule actually says - then it's a pretty stupid one that goes against the previous common understanding of what a touchdown is.

[gnome]

we was robbed.

Even Chicago thinks so ... 80% of the Tribune readers say that Calvin Johnson scored.

[Downriviera]

Ex coach turned TV analyst Tony Dungy explained the play in detail and said its a touchdown. 99% of comments on nfl.com say its a touchdown. What really bothers me is after they scewed up this call, Johnson was interfered with on the very next play. That could have been an easy way out for the officials, call pass interference in the end zone, give us the ball on the 1 with one shot to get it in. Make up calls happen all the time, and this would have been the perfect time for one. But no, no call, yet they called interference on us earlier that wasn't as bad.

[smogboy]

Even hours later after the debacle I'm still stunned and dumbfounded. The play in question is the kind that just scorches football fans' chaps and really singes Lions fans to the marrow. This really should've been a victory to start off the season with- a road victory no less.

But looking at the game with an analytical eye (which is what I try to do after calming down from the initial bout of disbelief) both teams were pretty shabby as expected. It was amazing that we went into halftime with the lead.

Some of the questionable things that I saw in the game were:

1) The Lions running game. It was practically non-existent
2) The corners were really soft against the run. When the Bears took it beyond the front four, those guys couldn't contain nor did they tackle well.
3) Where was the aggressive play calling? We saw light 'em up action in the pre-season with plenty of over the top passing. The majority of the first half was filled with dinks, dunks and little gainers for five yards at most. The Bears coverage wasn't that good, was it? And weren't we playing right into the Bears' supposed strength in their linebacking corps?
4) Backus obviously needed help on his side with Peppers coming in (what offense lineman in the NFL doesn't?). Where was the tight end support or the chip from the backfield? On Stafford's injury I think this is where Sheffler failed and where a slightly more experienced back in Kevin Smith might've helped out.
5) Obviously the lowlight of the game was seeing Stafford injured. I know Hill can play the adequate back-up role but so many of us were pinning out hopes on Stafford taking his game to the next level, taking the team on his shoulders, and leading them forward. Who knows how long he's going to be out now.
6) The second half offense was that... it was offensive to watch. We couldn't move the ball at all. Again, conservative play calling? Where were all of those dream match-ups of our big bodies against their small secondary?

Some highlights of the game (not many) were:

1) It was nice to see Julian Peterson play well the first half. He was all over the place and did well in that deflection for an interception.
2) The defense holding Chicago out of the end zone when the football was lodged on the two foot line. Multiple stands in the trenches. Why Lovie Smith chose to go for a TD on the 4th down is beyond me as well. Kyle Vanden Bosch was huge out there too.
3) Stefan Logan looks like a legit returner. He seems fearless and a heckuva better option than using Burleson, a starting wideout.
4) I dunno if it's a highlight but the team handled the blown call with a modicum of dignity. Sure, Schwartz and multiple players could've gotten in front of the mike, furiously lambasted the call, and gotten fined from the NFL, but it still wouldn't have changed the outcome of the game. They all know the real deal and seem to have sights set on the next game.

This was a game they should've walked from with a W. It wasn't pretty and showed a lot of Detroit's in adequacies across the board but we were at least competitive.

If Stafford doesn't come back soon, anyone want to start down grading their predictions?

[kenp]

I dont understand the call at all. He has possession, he is on his butt and down. It almost like he was spiking the ball to me to celebrate. Had to listen to much of the game on the radio, never actually saw any of it but the one play on the highlites.
Stafford's injury is bad news. The backup is better then what we saw Sunday. He will be better next week.
All we have to show for this game is another chapter in the lions tragic history

[Detroit Stylin]

I dont understand the call at all. He has possession, he is on his butt and down. It almost like he was spiking the ball to me to celebrate. Had to listen to much of the game on the radio, never actually saw any of it but the one play on the highlites.
Stafford's injury is bad news. The backup is better then what we saw Sunday. He will be better next week.
All we have to show for this game is another chapter in the lions tragic history

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGX2q_eer1g

or is he related to the guy who was rigging games in the NBA?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Donaghy

[GOAT]

The Lions played like crap except for that d-line. They were fantastic! Other than that did any player really do well other than that line?
It was a debacle any which way you look at it.

Now the chickens have come home to roost for the disgusting O-line. Barring the addition of Sims I stated that the O-line was gonna kill Stafford...I have been proved right. Why bother giving $40M to a franchise player and building around him when they won't protect him? Yes, this is yet ANOTHER Backus fuck-up. Last year Stafford was hit blind-side on his watch and was injured (well him and the LT). How long do we have to suffer through Backus? A mediocre pass protector on a good day.

As for the catch? Well, if I was a receiver in the league I would catch my TD and lay down until a ref came over to see if I was injured. I would then tell him "I was just making sure it was a td and that my movement didn't constitute a loss of process."

Or how about tackling a player in the endzone but keep shaking him. If they throw a flag then state you were wrestling for the ball and that the process wasn't complete. What a fucking farce!

If the No Fun League continues this shit and then has a lockout next year I am done. I would rather watch baseball or rugby...at least the rules are clear. Mike Dery had it right. With the fantasy bullshit, the constant change of rules, wishy-washy refs, the commercials (way too many), the push to try and accomodate more females (it isn't working fella's) I have had enough.

[GOAT]

If Stafford doesn't come back I am going with the goose egg again. 0-16. It looks like possibly 4-6 weeks minimum anyway....can we now sit Backus?

[staticstate]

for the life of me I can't see how what happened yesterday is not more of a catch than this 2 pt conversion from the superbowl:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J0_WL06AAc

[kenp]

for the life of me I can't see how what happened yesterday is not more of a catch than this 2 pt conversion from the superbowl:



The rule is new this year and I'm sure the superbowl play had a lot to do with the new rule. Some genius in the NFL thought he had a great idea.

[Johnlodge]

Or how about tackling a player in the endzone but keep shaking him. If they throw a flag then state you were wrestling for the ball and that the process wasn't complete. What a fucking farce!


Open season on receivers, now. Guy caught the ball, came down both feet, a butt, a knee and a hand? Too bad, take his fucking head off, "process" may not have been complete.

[smogboy]

Rather than pin the entire blame on Jeff Backus for letting Peppers through the offensive line, I want to know where was the help? It wasn't like Backus was beat by some 200 lb. rookie; he was beat by the most coveted free agent All-Pro defensive lineman in the NFL last year in Julius Peppers. One has to give some credit to Julius Peppers for doing his job as well. That being said, one would think that the offense would devise schemes to help keep him out. Other teams are doing that our Ndamukong Suh; they're double teaming him, they're bringing in a tight end, and they're utilizing a full back or half back to help chip him. Where was Backus' help with Peppers roaring in on Stafford?

Obviously there are one on one match-ups that one has to go through in the trenches but teams are fully aware of who's who on the opposing side. Our team has to know where the other team's best weapons are at all times and find ways to neutralize them; this is part of the chess game that pro football is.

Personally i don't think Backus is that terrible. That one play is now going to be magnified because Stafford got hurt. I look at the entire game yesterday, and if Backus was really as terrible as some of his detractors say he is- we would've gave up a lot more sacks than the two that occurred. I think Backus is maybe a hair above average but not that much more. He's definitely not a near All Pro like Jim Schwartz thinks he is.

Beyond having the personnel to help Backus and the rest of the offensive line I still strongly question the offensive game plan that was implemented yesterday. Why was it all short dinks & dunks for a few yards at the beginning of the game? We never stretched the field once? Where were all of these supposed offensive weapons that we saw in the pre-season? I thought some of this offensive firepower was to help keep the other team's offensive lines at bay. Stafford's supposedly got this quick release and I don't recall seeing it at all yesterday. That quick release was supposed to get the ball out and help protect him and make the O line's work that much easier. We were supposed to attack much more effectively than what I saw in yesterday's game; it gave the other team ample opportunity to come charging in full bore.

We're obviously going to be in for a different brand of football the next few weeks now if Stafford's going to be out. It wouldn't surprise me if we went 0-4 but if there's an opportunity for Stafford to heal, let him. I don't doubt Shaun Hill's ability to play QB, but it's just not what we were expecting nor were we hoping for it at this juncture of the season.

[smogboy]

The rule is new this year and I'm sure the superbowl play had a lot to do with the new rule. Some genius in the NFL thought he had a great idea.

I think it is a good idea but that rule was meant for receivers diving into the end zone. The rule should've never been applied to Calvin Johnson's play. I think the NFL brass wants things nailed down black & white in their rule books but obviously there are small grey areas that fall in between. It's instances like this where the officiating crew looking at it has to know the intent of the rule too. They blew it.

[Downriviera]

i was very unimpressed with the Schwartz presser today. His aw shucks atitude about the call was lame. We needed someone to get up there and support the players who played hard and got ripped off. He should have went balistic at the game and the press conference. This is a downtrodden team in a downtrodden city. We needed somebody to say were mad as hell and were not going to take it anymore. If you accept this you'll just get dumped on again. Where is the outrage. We needed Leyland going crazy, not Barney Rubble. He blew a chance to rally not only his team, but this city. Can you imagine if this happened to Dallas or one of the New York teams.

[smogboy]

i was very unimpressed with the Schwartz presser today. His aw shucks atitude about the call was lame. We needed someone to get up there and support the players who played hard and got ripped off. He should have went balistic at the game and the press conference. This is a downtrodden team in a downtrodden city. We needed somebody to say were mad as hell and were not going to take it anymore. If you accept this you'll just get dumped on again. Where is the outrage. We needed Leyland going crazy, not Barney Rubble. He blew a chance to rally not only his team, but this city. Can you imagine if this happened to Dallas or one of the New York teams.

I'm torn about this one. As a fan I would've loved to have seen Schwartz go ballistic, fire & brimstone on the NFL on the call yesterday. Whether it would've been immediately after the game or at the press conference, I'm not sure it would've mattered.

But then there's the logical calm side of me that knows it wouldn't have done any good with getting the call reversed. He would've obviously been fined for the outburst and maybe the Fords would've picked up the tab for the tantrum. I'm sure Schwartz had some pretty select words to the officiating crew immediately after the play but I'm starting to wonder if somehow he knew HE was at fault for not preaching the "proper NFL method" for catching a pass in the endzone.

This reminds me of the Dan Gilbert post LeBron tirade. He obviously galvanized the city of Cleveland with his speech but I don't think he thought it through. I'm just wondering if Schwartz would've gone off, would he have rallied the troops behind him? Leyland went ballistic after Jim Joyce after the Armando Galarraga "perfect game"- did it help his cause? Did the Tigers rally behind Leyland and respect him more? Were we fans impressed then?

I think there are two schools of thought behind this and one is to belabor the point that we were victimized. We were robbed and dagnabbit if everyone within earshot isn't going to get an earful of volume. The second school of thought on this is we just move forward. The game was lost; Philadelphia is next on the docket- let's get to work, put it behind us, WIN and all will be forgotten. I'm wondering if this is a part of that "winning culture/ attitude" that Schwartz is trying to instill here. Is screaming and crying over spilled milk the best way to get respect in the league or should it just be done between the chalk lines with victories? It's the Monday morning armchair soreness for all of us; we're all bitter at the loss and how we lost.

Now if we rip off six victories in a row, I'm willing to bet that this loss will be forgotten a lot easier (albeit never forgiven). Doubtful if that'll happen but I'd still like to think that Jim Schwartz is a sharp enough of a guy to realize when to speak up and when to hold back; he's calculated like that. Maybe he's just letting the media and fans do the pressing of the NFL for him. I have no idea but the NFL dropped the ball on this one more so than Calvin Johnson this weekend.

[smogboy]

Interesting take on the Schwartz non-rant:

http://www.detnews.com/article/20100913/OPINION03/9130398/Lions--Jim-Schwartz-earns-respect-for-holding-players-accountable

[Downriviera]

The new rule is designed for players catching the ball in the end zone and not landing on their feet. It was in response to a controversial td in the Superbowl. That rule has nothing to do with Johnsons catch. The NFL needs to step up and say they blew this one. Again, if this is Dallas or New York this is way different. You'd probably have Jesse Jackson and Rev Sharpton screaming. Its not about getting the call reversed. Its for not getting boned more in the future. Had he gone balistic the refs would be harded pressed to throw any flags our way this Sunday. I understand the cool calm and collected approach, but it just doesn't work in this instance for me.

[Detroit Stylin]

The new rule is designed for players catching the ball in the end zone and not landing on their feet. It was in response to a controversial td in the Superbowl. That rule has nothing to do with Johnsons catch. The NFL needs to step up and say they blew this one. Again, if this is Dallas or New York this is way different. You'd probably have Jesse Jackson and Rev Sharpton screaming. Its not about getting the call reversed. Its for not getting boned more in the future. Had he gone balistic the refs would be harded pressed to throw any flags our way this Sunday. I understand the cool calm and collected approach, but it just doesn't work in this instance for me.


Really. Politicize much?

[Johnlodge]

I'm perfectly fine with Schwartz's reaction. If he knows and we know that no amount of antics are going to change that ruling, why whine about it and look like a baby or a hot-head? The Lions couldn't get a first down in nearly TWO FULL QUARTERS of Football. That's what he wants the team to focus on. Bad rules and bad officiating are a part of sports, but not a part that the coach can change. His job is to put his players in the best possible position to win within that which he can control, plain and simple. Leave the yelling and theatrics in baseball, Leyland will always be happy to oblige.

[Big Dog]

After watching the game. The only logical explanation, I can come up with, is the loss, must be atributed to, Duh Curse. It was a win.

[gnome]

Anyone see any on-line video of Stafford getting a shoulderecktomy? Backus is a non-favorite, but I agree with Smogboy that he needed some help with Peppers. That guy is a Godzilla and Backus ain't no Mothra.

[smogboy]

I'm perfectly fine with Schwartz's reaction. If he knows and we know that no amount of antics are going to change that ruling, why whine about it and look like a baby or a hot-head? The Lions couldn't get a first down in nearly TWO FULL QUARTERS of Football. That's what he wants the team to focus on. Bad rules and bad officiating are a part of sports, but not a part that the coach can change. His job is to put his players in the best possible position to win within that which he can control, plain and simple. Leave the yelling and theatrics in baseball, Leyland will always be happy to oblige.

I generally can't stand Drew Sharp's writing but for once I think he's spot on with the post game Schwartz here:

http://www.freep.com/article/20100915/COL08/9150318/1433/Lions-Schwartz-right-to-downplay-controversy-over-end-zone-play

It's been a few days since that debacle. We've all calmed down from it now. That burning outrage isn't festering in the majority of our bellies any more. Obviously Schwartz, who was in the middle of the fire, reached that calm place long before many of us fans did.

Also Sharp pointed out what would've happened if our most hated Lions president would've done if he were still in charge. Oh Lordy... he would've given every sports radio show enough sound bytes to last decades on end and cost the team a small ransom in fines for what obviously would've been an over-the-top response.

[kenp]

Its a lose and there is nothing you can do about. A distraction from the last game keeps you from getting ready for the next game, thats the way it is in football. Smart coaches are actors, the only a past issue to motivate when the time is right.
Right now we need to get a backup QB ready and find a running game.

[gnome]

Agreed. Schwartz's restrained response was the way to go, save for the legalistic "process" lingo. His explaination of the rule was just an exercise in preztle logic. He did his best to explain the unexplainable, but failed at explaining the explaination.

JL, your summation was much better.

Bad rules and bad officiating are a part of sports, but not a part that the coach can change.

A little Bill W. philosophy applied to the Lions, which is apt in more ways than one.

Smogboy, Drew Sharp (mr. stopped-clock-is-right-twice-a-day) did a good job, except for the reference to Millen and what he might have done in the same situation. Hypotheticals are lame becuase they mean nothing. One could speculate on anything. Millen would have lit up a bowl, run naked through downtown, ass-fcked a sheep, donated to a soup kitchen.

A hypothetical it is a weak argumental technique. A powerful rhetorical devise, but weak in logic and a poor choice for Drew Sharp.

In fact, the entire implied "Millen is the root of all evil" is just another version of a tired Detroit technique: blame the past for our problems today. You can almost pick any woe that faces our fair town and the same techique will be used for maximum effect.

Pass the blame. Point a finger.

The fact is that Mr. Johnson should have completely understood the new rules. Rules I certainly don't agree with, but rules none-the-less.

[kenp]

The fact is that Mr. Johnson should have completely understood the new rules. Rules I certainly don't agree with, but rules none-the-less.

Fisrt thing I thought about when I heard the rule is that its the coaches fault.

[Downriviera]

Billick and Dungy know more about the rules than anybody and they called it a touchdown. 99% of people on nfl.com called it a touchdown. So I still say it was a touchdown. Schwartz took the diplomatic approach, problem is, he's not a diplomat. He's an NFL head coach. This is a tough game where signs of weakness are exploited. I still like The Schwartz, so I'll cut him some slack. As for the game, I think the fix was in. I'm no conspiracy theorist (Gannon I may need your help here) but if you look at the replay of Forte's td run down the sidline, it sure looks like he stepped out of bounds. Normally they go to the sideline camera view for this, but all the sudden we didn't get to see that view. The replay we saw was from cameras on the other side of the field. Then the non touchdown, immediately followed by the lack of a pass interference call on the next play on Calvin in the endzone. I need one more day of rage, tomorrow I'll prepare for the Eagles game.

[kenp]

I need one more day of rage, tomorrow I'll prepare for the Eagles game.

Fair enough, though we always go by the 48 hour rule.

[smogboy]

Smogboy, Drew Sharp (mr. stopped-clock-is-right-twice-a-day) did a good job, except for the reference to Millen and what he might have done in the same situation. Hypotheticals are lame becuase they mean nothing. One could speculate on anything. Millen would have lit up a bowl, run naked through downtown, ass-fcked a sheep, donated to a soup kitchen.

A hypothetical it is a weak argumental technique. A powerful rhetorical devise, but weak in logic and a poor choice for Drew Sharp.

In fact, the entire implied "Millen is the root of all evil" is just another version of a tired Detroit technique: blame the past for our problems today. You can almost pick any woe that faces our fair town and the same techique will be used for maximum effect.

Pass the blame. Point a finger.

You're right. There are certain things that Millen can still be blamed for but not in this instance. Lord knows we can point the fickle finger of blame for all of those failed drafts to lead us to this stage of Lions history but not with what Jim Schwartz did after the game. Dagnabbit, that Drew Sharp used that Millen cliche to rile us all up again when it really had nothing to do with what was at hand. Heck, he could've brought up how Russ Thomas would've reacted or how Charles Manson would've flipped out for effect.

Good catch (much like the play in the end zone) of this, Gnome!

[smogboy]

Fair enough, though we always go by the 48 hour rule.

I'd be willing to concede a 72 hour rule on this one. This one stung a little more because it was so blatant. The Eagles will be here soon enough.

[kenp]

ok, 2 hours and 50 minutes left

[Downriviera]

Has the curse been lifted? We'll know in a few hours. Go Lions!

http://www.freep.com/article/20100919/SPORTS01/9190427

[ejames01]

There isn't a curse. The Lions lost because Philly just has better players at key positions.

Vick > Shaun Hill
DeSean Jackson > Calvin Johnson
Samuel/Hobbs > Houston/Wade

[Big Dog]

It's not duh curse. It's they are a bad team and franchise for the fans, but not for the owner

[smogboy]

Okay we lost the game but was this a shocker to anyone?

The Chicago game we all knew it should've been ours. This game wasn't anything too truly out of the unexpected for me. And it was actually conceivable that they could've won this one too. Compared to last year's team- I would have to say it's an improvement. The Lions were at least in the thick of it, they were competitive and really didn't give up by halftime like so many other incarnations of this team that we've suffered through.

In this game our lack of depth and talent at linebacker was way too apparent and as soon as Burleson went down, our depth (or lack of) on the offensive side of the ball sputtered. Philly doubled Calvin and we ended up going to two tight end sets for most of the game. If it wasn't for Best chewing up some of that yardage with his runs & YACs, it would've been a lot worse.

Offensively we just need to do a much better job of executing and moving the ball down field. We did it in the first half pretty effectively. Philly made some adjustments and we never really countered until the very end of the fourth quarter where we just made Ernie Sims look really bad. The running game seems sporadic- it was either going to break huge or go backwards for a 5 yard loss. Our QB to WR receivers sync was definitely not there and I'm not sure if it's from unfamiliarity or that Philly just defended that well.

Defensively the front four was disruptive but against someone like a Michael Vick, they couldn't be as aggressive as they would ordinarily have been if it was Kolb in there. Look at all the time Vick bought himself stepping up and out of the pocket. Vick actually beat us with his arm today but his scrambling ability gives him that dynamic that no other QB in the league has. Vick picked our seams apart and the receivers from there did their damage. And where's a timely pick from a DB when we need one?

Kudos to Schwartz for finally going ballistic on the sidelines on that challenge too. Some fans and media pundits didn't like it last week when he didn't go nuts for the blown Johnson catch in the end zone, but that was after the fact. In today's game, he tossed that red towel out and was in that official's face giving him an ear full. I think he's smart enough to know when to get angry because obviously the call was in Detroit's favor. I still recall during the Marinelli era when he'd toss a challenge out there and I'd have to say he lost most of those challenges. At least when Schwartz is going to make a challenge, I'm going to assume he's got his press box coaching staff advising him; I always wondered how Marinelli did it.

I'm not going to be expecting the next two games to be in the W column either. I can see them coming back home 0-4 but that's not to say I'm being a pessimist; I'm just going to be realistic about it. They've never fared well in Minnesota or Green Bay and talent wise, they're just not stacking up. Optimistically, yes we can steal a game at either place because that's just the way the NFL can be. I'll still cheer this team on; they're our Lions.

As a fan I have to hope for little bits of improvement from this team even in the losses. In today's game it was nice to see Jahvid Best step up a little bit, the defensive front four still being a force, Nick Harris finding his form again, and subtly I like the looks of Logan being our PR/KR guy- he seems to have some speed and vision out there. We knew this team wasn't going to contend for the playoffs this year; one can look for the bright spots and one can also look at the places where we need help. Neither one of the first two games were stellar for us or the opponents. I can't imagine Lovie Smith or Andy Reid feeling too proud of their team's performances against us. From an entertainment POV we were in both games and we made it close with some perks here and there.

[sirrealone]

Observations:

Calvin Johnson HAS to step up and be involved more often. The guy can make explosive plays and it seems like he can get on streaks of awesomeness, but that's tempered by the fact that he disappears for long stretches. I don't care that Burleson was out, if CJ wants to be an elite receiver, he has to step up more often. Yes, he was double teamed and yes, Hill didn't throw the most accurate passes each time, but an elite receiver makes those catches anyways. CJ needs to show that.

I think the play selection on the final drive was some of the worst I've seen since Marty decided to 'take the wind'. They just recovered an onside kick, they had almost two minutes on the clock, and one timeout and really they needed 30-40 yards I think to get Hanson into range. There was no reason they couldn't have run the ball. Jahvid Best pretty much single handedly kept the Lions in the game, yet they do nothing with him when everything was on the line. I love Schwartz and the coaching staff but yesterday was the first time that I openly questioned coaching as a being a reason to blame for a loss.

I was annoyed at the announcers love of Mike Vick. While I didn't expect them to bad mouth him or trash talk him, they were way too enthusiastic about him and completely glossed over everything that led him to have to stage his comeback. I was really tired of the game turning into the Mike Vick Lovefest Parade by the end.

On a positive note, I think it is encouraging that you could look at them and that they could realistically be 2-0 right now. They might not win a lot of games this year, but I maintain that if they stay competitive and then do another talent improvement over the season, next year is when you could see a dramatic difference in their record. Picture the playmakers you have now with a better secondary, more depth on the o-line, and maybe a better linebacker as well, not to mention the extra experience by some of the young guys. That could happen this offseason and seeing these losses turn to wins isn't a hard stretch. It's easy to say 'Oh, another 0-2 start' but I'm keeping the faith and continue to say that this feels different. Even the announcers, after being able to catch their breath a couple of times from extolling Mike Vick, were able to observe that the talent level is way on the upswing.

[Downriviera]

I also question some of the play calling. Two runs up the gut trying for a yard for first down got stuffed. I can see one try, but our offense line is still a weakness. Get the ball outside to our skill players on the second try. The series after getting the ball after the onside kick was awful. I think were in with a chance at Minnesota. Green Bay? Fahgeddaboudit.

[smogboy]

I agree about Calvin Johnson. It's one thing to be a threat; it's another thing to actually go to him and have him execute. Right now I'd even be willing to have him do short crossing routes (maybe a little more dangerous) but at least he'd get the ball and possibly gain some more yards after the fact. He doesn't always have to get 20+ yards on every catch. Vary his play calling and use him as a weapon more I say! We seem to be varying up the play calling with Jahvid Best and utilizing him all over the place- why not with Calvin? His play selection has dropped off this year; remember when Calvin would even be a part of reverses and that would scare the opposing team a little bit more?

sirrealone, I couldn't have agreed with you more with regards to the last Lions' series with the ball. I remember looking up at the clock with about 1:32 left and watching the Lions panic like we had :02 on the clock. We had time, in the football world- PLENTY of time to march it down the field. We had enough time to even mix it up a little with the play calling. Lord knows Philly had their dime package in at that point, dropped everyone off the line, and we could've let Best rip off a good run towards the sidelines to manage the clock. We didn't need to win the game at that point. We had recovered the onside kick and like you said, all we had to do was minimally get within Hanson's range for the tie. The clock and play management on the coaching staff here could've been MUCH much better.

I think it was just panic after the onset of having some momentum swing our way. Even the announcers (who did lavish far too much praise on Michael Vick for my tastes as well) were noticing the rush that Detroit had to get the ball down field like that. I'm never going to be happy with a Detroit loss but I would've liked to have at least had control of the football on the final drive, controlled somewhat our own destiny as opposed to having lost the ball on downs or kick it away for the other team to take the knee.

[kenp]

I will give the players the credit for coming back.
However what a bad game. We are up17-7 and give up 28 un-answered points.
We have a series were we run up the gut 3 times and eventually give up the ball after missing 4th an 1. Then after the onside kick we look like a kids team.
To me it looked like philly basically stopped playing late in the game after dominating us.

[gnome]

The difference in the game was Vick. Several times he slipped from disaster and made plays only Houdini could match.

As much as the last series was upsetting, the truth is that this year the Lions have been pretty effective in the two-minute drill. Last week we were robbed by a obtuse ruling. We lost, true, but the play-calling was spot-on. This week the Leos marched down the field and scored thereby placing us in the position for the onside kick.

If we didn't have pretty good play-calling in those drives there would not have been Calvin Johnson "not completing the process" nor Hanson kicking a text-book on-side. While I don't mean to be all wet-panties over the coaching staff, just to point out that they have had some success, and that it was Vick who killed us.

[GOAT]

If I hear about Vick being the difference in this game one more time I am going to puke!
Vick was held to 31 rushing yards which is very low for him (Lion victory in that alone). His completion rate was pretty good (not outstanding) but EVERY QB will have good numbers against the worst secondary in the NFL. So it isn't the QB doing magic, it is the secondary sucking eggs on a regular basis. I mean Delmas was beat twice for TDs! And badly I might add.

We should have and could have one this game but as usual with a team that has little depth they found a way to lose.

As for Johnson, he was double coveraged after Burleson went out of the game in the first play. Can't do much about that with a QB who is not very accurate. In fact both interceptions on Hill were terribly thrown balls. He went 3 and out 3 times where the ball thrown wassn't even close the receiver.

By the way. Good on Best to match my fav player in Lions history, Billy Sims, to have 5 tds in his first two games as a rookie (1980).

Other than that...we have to stop getting injured. I mean really? What is it with the Lions and major injuries? We seem to have more injuries than most (not always) NFL teams. Is our conditioning coach a bit soft?

I wanted the win but I have to come away from this game feeling not bad since we have so many key players out.

As for the curse? Nope, it is over and done with as of this year.

[GOAT]

Sierraleone, Theneeded only 25 yards. I mean when Hill was hobbling around why not use the time-out then? Go for the endzone twice and then spike the ball if nothing happens and put Hanson out there for the tie. I was quite perplexed.

But I did love the way Schwartz threw that red flag! The stadium erupted when he did it.

[smogboy]

If I hear about Vick being the difference in this game one more time I am going to puke!
Vick was held to 31 rushing yards which is very low for him (Lion victory in that alone). His completion rate was pretty good (not outstanding) but EVERY QB will have good numbers against the worst secondary in the NFL. So it isn't the QB doing magic, it is the secondary sucking eggs on a regular basis. I mean Delmas was beat twice for TDs! And badly I might add.

Please try not to vomit as I write this but what part of what that Philly QB (I won't mention his name in fear of you hurling chunks) did wasn't apparent in the numbers he put up. It wasn't the rushing yardage and it didn't show up in any passing percentages either. It's what he did in avoiding our (dare I say it?) impressive front four. He used his feet to avoid getting clobbered. He scrambled and gave himself a few extra moments to find a receiver down the field. In this day and age, given enough time- any QB can find an open receiver, and especially against a semi-porous defense like ours. I think that if Kolb had been in there, the Eagles might've been on the losing end of things but that's sheer speculation; he might've found other ways to beat us as well.

As it was, we still had six sacks against that Philadelphia-QB-not-named-Kolb which is pretty impressive. Dare I say that the guys up front in Vanden Bosch, Williams, Suh and McBride (filling in for the injured Avril) were beasts?

[smogboy]

But I did love the way Schwartz threw that red flag! The stadium erupted when he did it.

The man's got moxie when he makes a challenge, doesn't he? Again to this day I could never understand how Rod Marinelli could toss that hanky out there and it might as well have been an automatic time-out charged to us every time. :confused:

[GOAT]

lol @ Smogboy on both posts. You are right that "he" got out of a few jams to execute but we beat ourselves again (cross post to gross : ) ) it wasn' that he was a superstar Qb for the day.

[gnome]

Go ahead and puke all over your shoes.

W6G7fZ9kg7U

[ejames01]

Vick was the difference!!! Almost any other quarterback not named Peyton Manning would have been killed playing behind that line!


Go ahead and puke all over your shoes.

W6G7fZ9kg7U

[Downriviera]

Vick was the difference!!! Almost any other quarterback not named Peyton Manning would have been killed playing behind that line!

What about Fran Tarkenton?

[ejames01]

Fran is 70 years old


What about Fran Tarkenton?

[smogboy]

Fran is 70 years old

Like he's any less brittle than that infamous snapped leg he suffered in 1977!

Speaking of old QBs, it looks as though we'll be chasing one in the backfield this upcoming Sunday. It should be interesting to see our front four taking on Favre, but I'm sure they know that as well and will scheme against us with Peterson runs and quick dinks all over the place.

[gnome]

I hear the Vikes have offered Georg Blanda a contract just so as to make Farve not feel so old. Now, Blanda, that guy could play.

[Downriviera]

I predict this will be Favre's last NFL game. Vanden Bosch and Suh will see to it.

[smogboy]

I predict this will be Favre's last NFL game. Vanden Bosch and Suh will see to it.

I'm not willing to count the ol' geezer out just yet. That sort of strategy has been the mindset of so many other teams the last few years and somehow Favre still manages to evade Father Time and the majority of the other teams' defensive lines pretty well. I'm sure Brad Childress & the Minnesota braintrust will scheme up something to keep him vertical somehow some way. We just need Gunther Cunningham to come up with something equally as devious and conniving.

[kenp]

Smogboy is right on. After this game everyone will be saying Favre really does still have it.
After playing the Lions Vick has now displaced Kolb at Philly as the permanent #1.

[gnome]

the leos do have a outstanding record for reviving the careers of washed up QBs; unfortunately it's for the opposing team.

Didn't Jeff Garcia light us up last year?

[smogboy]

the leos do have a outstanding record for reviving the careers of washed up QBs; unfortunately it's for the opposing team.

I'm not so sure I'd call Brett Favre a "washed up QB" just yet. That "washed up QB" came within a whisker of taking his team to the Super Bowl last year. Again I have no idea how he does it and continues to go, go and go like he does but he's still finding ways to do it. Now as a Lions fan I'm hoping that we can lay the smack down on him and chase him this upcoming Sunday. Favre truly is an enigma with his streak though.

[gnome]

true, as much as I dislike Farve for being a primadonna, his endurance is amazing... 20 plus years of starting every game?

dang.

[sirrealone]

I think Favre started off slow last year too. He wasn't throwing INTs but for the first part of the season he was a game manager, essentially handing off to Peterson and Taylor and throwing short passes. Though they won, he was still not putting up anywhere near the stats that he did as the season progressed. I know this because in my fantasy football league, I got offered him in a trade in the early part of the season, which I turned down. Had I accepted the trade, I probably would have made the playoffs in my league seeing the numbers that he put up as he hit his stride and seeing that my QB situation was my eventual downfall.

I've made it clear on the past that I don't like the guy, but I respect his talents, and I'd be surprised if we've seen the last of him. My thought is that are several reasons he is struggling::

1. Missing Sidney Rice - Missing their top WR threat changes everything
2. Missing Chester Taylor - He is a workhorse and definitely changes the dynamic of the offense not being there
3. Skipping training camp - Favre is essentially doing his training camp / getting into shape activities now. Chances are he catches up
4. A coach that gets (and deserves) no respect - Childress reminds me of Barry Switzer in the 90's. A coach that really wasn't that good but won a lot of games (and in Switzer's case a Super Bowl) because of the talent. Childress has no handle whatsoever on that team.

I think the Vikings still have a chance and I'm sure they are looking at the Lions as a way to give them the confidence boost and get them started. If they lose to the Lions, they could very well be written off for the year as I think that would probably cause irreversable damage, but I'm still thinking that the Lions are not yet up for this challenge. Missing Stafford is huge. The Williams wall is going to make Best earn every yard. The Vikings D only gave up 14 points each week so far, one of those against the very high powered Saints. They will find ways to smother the Stafford-less Lions. They will force Hill to make mistakes. The Lions will certainly put more pressure on Favre, but the defense has shown that they're still very susceptible to giving up huge plays especially in the running game (and Peterson is heads and shoulders better than McCoy, who ran all over us last week).

I think the NFL did the Lions a huge disservice with the Lions schedule, giving them three of their first four on the road, and all against division opponents to boot. The Lions earned a lot of respect playing tough the first two weeks, but I think they're going to be in for two tough weeks ahead. After that I think they could go .500 the rest of the way, but I'd be (pleasantly) surprised if they came out of this anything other than 0-4.

My (Sad) Prediction: Vikings 31, Lions 13

[kenp]

Saw a replay of the Dolphins / Vikings game last night. Favre looked shaky at best, But Peterson played very well, wow what a player.
I agree with Sierralone, especially the fact that he missed training camp.
We have to stop Peterson, he is the key

[gnome]

No doubt the Lions are facing a tough defense. In two games the Vikes lead the league in points allowed, rushing yards gained and are one of the leaders in passing yards.

But they haven't faced a high scoring offense either. Of their two previous opponents, saints have averaged 19.5 pts a game and the dolphins are even weaker.

I haven't given up on the Lions yet. Not willing to turn. I'm not seeing much from Farve so far, and so I'm sticking with the Lions. 20-17 with a final minute drive capped by a Hanson splitting of the uprights.

[GOAT]

sirrealone, That is exactly what I thought even down to the score. While I would love to win this one it just isn't going to happen especially with Burleson out and possibly Follet. That secondary is just beat up and in piss-poor shape. Follet isn't that great but if he is out who in the heck to they have left back there?

Why do we have so many injuries?

[sirrealone]

Goat, I don't think we're really that more injury prone. It's just that our injuries are more noticeable. When Mayhew/Schwartz started this thing, there was no depth anywhere. Many of the starters were so bad that they wouldn't be backups on other teams, not to even mention how bad the 'backups' were. They've been making improvements across the board, but when the cupboards were as bare as they were, they haven't been able to build the level of depth that they need to so that injuries aren't so much a factor.

Right now, your rookies and free agents are being brought in and pretty much being penciled in as starters. On 'real' NFL teams, even first and second rounders sit on the bench or aren't starters for their first couple of years. That equates to having depth. The Lions are getting there (and don't get me wrong, they have improved the depth tremendously in each of the two off seasons), but they still have a long way to go. Eventually, if they keep drafting and trading well and hitting the right free agents, they'll build depth to where injuries won't equate to a huge drop off in production as it does today.

[Bong-Man]

I've never laughed harder this season than at the local U-M apologists that feel they have to cover for Jeff Backus' lousy play. The man is about to contribute towards the two longest road losing streaks in NFL history plus an 0-16 season. Since every other Millen draft choice has pretty much bit the dust, why are we keeping this 32 year old, over-paid and uncoordinated oaf around ? Does anyone think he's gaining a step in year 11 ? His movement sucked when he was 23 ! He was a compromise to begin with, as Seattle took Hutchinson ahead of the Lions. Instead of taking the best player available, Millen took U-M's second best lineman that year. He should have been cut loose the same year Joey was. The Lions will never reach .500 ball with Backus and Raiola on their offensive line. Again....40% of the lousiest offensive line in NFL history, and they've been underacheiving at that level for 10 years ! I bet if the Lions cut them today, they wouldn't make an NFL roster in 2011.

[Big Dog]

Bong-Man, I agree with your post. I want the lions to win and get in the PO's. I get a feeling, it's going to be awhile.

[smogboy]

I haven't given up on the Lions yet. Not willing to turn. I'm not seeing much from Farve so far, and so I'm sticking with the Lions. 20-17 with a final minute drive capped by a Hanson splitting of the uprights.

I think the Lions can do this as well but a lot of the football gods will have to smile their way this Sunday. On top of the defensive line neutralizing Favre and just making him so skittish in the pocket he's inaccurate, I think that we're going to need Adrian Peterson to fumble a few times as well. After watching the Miami game, Minnesota tanked it by turning the ball over and I think that's the sort of luck we're going to need in this upcoming game.

I think there's going to be a lot of heat on the Vikings to perform. At the beginning of the season they were all ogling another trip to the Super Bowl. Well, they've stumbled out of the gate with an 0-2 record and I'd be willing the Vikings faithful will turn on them in a heartbeat if they end up behind somehow. I agree with sirrealone that Brad Childress has really lost the respect of this team. Not only did he ship three of his players down in a private jet to coax Brett Favre back to playing, he had his assistant coaches lie to the press about their whereabouts. Childress is pretty much coddling Favre; he's playing favorites and I'm sure that's about as well liked as much as a limburger church fart. Even if it's a close game and the Vikings do come out of it with a tiny margin of victory, I can't see the fans there claim that they're turned the corner. I'm sure they'll expect a double digit blow-out just because it's the Lions.

As far as our Lions, they simply need to execute. Calvin needs a handful of catches early on and I'm hoping that they also have him going horizontal a little more across the line as opposed to constantly stretching the field. Have a little more imaginative play calling and I think Calvin can be effective again; this could be a break out game for him this season. Jahvid Best is going to need his speed going to the outside on the line. The Williams/ Allen combo is deadly. Our front four on defense has also GOT to step up and stuff Peterson and keep Favre scared; if the Vikings can neutralize them somehow- it's not going to be pretty once they get behind them.

The Lions have some fight. The Vikings team could be on the ropes or this could be a break out game for them. Two 0-2 teams going at it and someone will go away still winless; as a Lions fan I can only hope it'll be the Vikings crying in their helmets as they leave the field.

[kenp]

I've never laughed harder this season than at the local U-M apologists that feel they have to cover for Jeff Backus' lousy play. .

What does Michigan have to do with this, I am a UM grad and I know Backus sucks and I know it was a stupid mistake to draft him right after Hutch was picked.
Anyway I couldnt agree more with you on the rest of your post, Raiola and Backus are career average or below lineman that just wont go away. We spent nothing on the Oline for years now with the exception of a older free agent here or there.

[GOAT]

Bong-man, it is one reason I questioned some of the picks this year. Guaranteeing $40mil for a QB without protection is like one of us buying a $120,000 sporrts car and parking it in a gravel driveway without a garage. No wonder the kid has been hurt three times.

Raiolo hasn't been a bad center, maybe a little under-sized but his snapping skills are quite good. But Backus? Never been a fan from day one.

This game is either going to be a close Lions victory or a Vikings blow-out. The Williams line is one of the best in the NFL so thismatch-up should be interesting. But we have lost Burleson for this game (I don't think he will play) so then CJ gets double teamed again and then what?

[sirrealone]

But we have lost Burleson for this game (I don't think he will play) so then CJ gets double teamed again and then what?

Was Randy Moss double covered in the year that he caught like 23 touchdown passes a couple of seasons ago? I'd guess yes. CJ nor anybody else should be able to use double coverage as an excuse. He's tall, he's fast, he's got the ability to make catches in spite of double coverage. If the coaches don't call plays because he's double covered, shame on them. If Hill doesn't throw to him because he's double covered, shame on him. If CJ doesn't pull in some catches even when he's double covered, well shame on him too.

Bottom line, elite receivers are elite because they of their ability to make plays even when teams are throwing everything they have at them. Teams planned their entire defense around Barry for most of the 90's, and he still made them pay. CJ can be and needs to be the same type of player. I've been openly critical of him over the past week because he hasn't demonstrated it. He has to in order for the Lions to make this turnaround happen. It needs to start now.

No more excuses.

[ggores]

I took the Lions +3 today. I should've taken more! That's five bucks down the pisser for me. Wah.

[Big Dog]

IT'S DUH CURSE, or they SUCK.

[Big Dog]

ggores. that was a bad bet.

[smogboy]

I took the Lions +3 today. I should've taken more! That's five bucks down the pisser for me. Wah.

You're a brave man for taking that bet. Granted if the Lions would've won you would've been touted as a genius.

I'm still agog that Jason Hanson missed a 44 yard field goal wide left. Other things that spelled the doom of this game for me were the loss the Jahvid Best, the two end zone turnovers, and the apparent sure hands of Adrian Peterson. I commented earlier that he needed to turn the ball over a few times for us to have a chance. The few times that the Vikings did turn it over, the plays were nullified by penalties. Beyond scoring first I never felt as though we were in any rhythm nor did we have any sort of momentum; we just seem to linger and stick around. Emotionally this game was about exciting as watching moss grow on the side of trees.

Quite honestly if I was a Vikings fan, I wouldn't exactly be jumping for joy either. It was a snoozer for both teams. The few high points for me as a Lions fan were in the hopes that our defensive line was going to plow over Favre, collapse the pocket and hopefully get to him before he lobbed the ball out of there. You could tell he definitely was not in sync nor was he the Brett Favre- gunslinger of old due to his lack of receivers, his own rust, and just the dynamic of this game. He was just fortunate to have an Adrian Peterson carry the load of the offense for him and that looks as though it's going to be that way for the Vikings for awhile.

The few perks I would have to grasp at in this game were that the offensive line for us held up well in pass protection. Rushing wise against the Williams and Allen was tough sledding; their LB group for the Vikings did a good job stuffing the gap on the few shots up the gut. Shaun Hill didn't get flattened too much and was elusive enough outside the pocket (I just wish his accuracy was just a touch better today and that could've been the difference maker today). Ashlee Palmer did a serviceable job replacing Follett (that's not saying too much but he did seem to be a little more disruptive) on the linebacking position.

The game was a bore fest. I hardly got off the couch once to cheer, yell or bemoan a bad call. I thought both teams played poorly and it was almost like the teams were playing not to lose as opposed to wanting to win.

[Big Dog]

If I was a Viking fan, I would be jumping for joy, being 0-2, and finally winning one. Alas, I am a lions fan and I'm pissed at how this team is. You can't make a pigs ear, into a silk purse. Guess we have to be patient for another several years.

[gnome]

.... like ashes in my mouth. - sigh -

[Big Dog]

Smogboy, you don't really expect any of us in this thread, who know you, to believe your post, "Quite honestly if I was a Vikings fan, I wouldn't exactly be jumping for joy either". If the lions had won, you would be posting 100 posts and, they would have to pull you off the ceiling. <G>
They will win one sometime.

[smogboy]

Smogboy, you don't really expect any of us in this thread, who know you, to believe your post, "Quite honestly if I was a Vikings fan, I wouldn't exactly be jumping for joy either". If the lions had won, you would be posting 100 posts and, they would have to pull you off the ceiling. <G>
They will win one sometime.

Uh huh... for a team that was one toss away from going to the Super Bowl last year under their savior Brett Favre to start off 0-2? And their first victory was one against the lowly Lions? You'd think that as a Vikings fan, one would have SOME expectations of starting off a little better? Duh.. you'd think?? Did you have your rabbit earred TV set on mute and not hear the boos raining down from the Vikings fans? Do you think the Vikings played like a team that looked like a divisional champion today by beating the Lions the way they did? Don't be a Vikings apologist now just because they beat a team that had two victories last year (or do I need to pull out the Lions' record for the last few years combined to hammer my point home?).

And if I post 100 posts I do more than just tiredly re-hash how the Lions have "duh curse and how we have to wait another year. How much more obvious can one be?? I can at least offer up a little more substance and an informed viewpoint on the game.

[Thruster315]

Smogboy, you don't really expect any of us in this thread, who know you, to believe your post, "Quite honestly if I was a Vikings fan, I wouldn't exactly be jumping for joy either". If the lions had won, you would be posting 100 posts and, they would have to pull you off the ceiling. <G>
They will win one sometime.

My brother-in-law who is a Minneapolis resident and die hard Vikings fan came over to watch the game. He told us the mood there has been ugly about how his team has played. Starting out against New Orleans was going to be their redemption but that sputtered. Brad Childress, according to him, should be canned and that their belief in Brett Favre isn't as rock solid any more. Going 3-11 on third down conversions today didn't exactly cement in his mind that his team was going to come close to the Super Bowl. He wasn't gloating after the game by any means and it's only three games into the season.

I'd have to agree with Smogboy that this wasn't a great game for either team to be proud about. It wasn't an explosive shoot out and it wasn't a defensive gem either.

[Big Dog]

They will win one at some point, I hope.

[Thruster315]

They will win one at some point, I hope.

Then be bold enough to make a prediction here then. When? Against whom? Points scored, etc.

Quit badgering the other posters here (ggores was willing to place a bet on the Lions and smogboy has a cohesive thought & some facts) and speaking like you know what Vikings fans would or might feel. Give us something firm. Of course the Lions will win one some day; can you be any more patronizing, melodramatic, facetious, wishy washy, and more blatantly obvious with your one line comment? Boo freaky hoo.

[kenp]

To many mistakes and they where huge mistakes. We get a 7-0 lead, force them to punt on the next possesion and then fumble the punt. Typical Lions football.
Then add a great game by Peterson and we lose. Next week is going to be even tougher.

[jiminnm]

It seems that George Blanda is no longer available.
http://www.sacbee.com/2010/09/27/3060303/raiders-say-hall-of-fame-quarterback.html