Urban farming brought you us by the hantz group

[Blueidone]

I just saw a news broadcast on Channel 7 about proposed urban farming in Detroit. Hantz Farms, a division of the Hantz Group, a financial service holding company based in Southfield, plans to buy, or get the City to donate, a minimum of 70 acres in clusters around the city to be used as farmland. The crops grown are not to be given away, but sold. The principal person spearheading this project is Matt Allen, former Press Secretary.

Being an active member of the Georgia Street Community Collective, which establishes and supports urban farming, on one hand I agree with this theory. But, I would rather see a growth in our type of farming where the vegetables are free to the neighborhood.

Also, this being a huge corporate entity, will they really care about the neighborhood? I can envision lot after lot fenced in for protection. Maybe even barbed wire on top? Armed guards? I don't see how a corporation such as this, that will be focused on increasing their profits, will be able to protect these crops.

Our neighborhood gardens don't suffer these problems because the items grown there are meant for the neighbors, not for sale.

I am just curious how others think. I have not made up my mind about this yet. I'm looking for viewpoints I might not be seeing, one way or the other.

How would you feel about a corporate farm on your block?

[detr0itkid]

I'd say I'm almost for anything new coming into the city.

Every empty lot that will be farmed, will not have to be cut by the city which will save some tax money. Plus it may bring a few new jobs and a bit of tax revenue if these are for profit farms. Either way it will be keeping money in the state.

And for me the most important thing will be that in the area maintained by the farms there will not be a half pint and 25c potato chip bag grave yard. Litter is my new pet pieve in the city. Fences basically work as nets catching trash blowing around the city and I'd assume these farms will at least keep their fencelines clean.

Plus the city is huge and hugely empty. I'd doubt that they will be putting these farms anywhere where there are more than a handfull of scattered homes. I can't see them disrupting anything close to a neighborhood.

[detroitjim]

Those corporate farmers are BUYING property in the city .That means tax revenue.
I would not have a problem if they decided to do it in my neighborhood. If they planted taller crops that would be especially good as they offer a certain level of sound proofing. The report of the 9's may not be so loud as to awaken me in the middle of the night.

Why is it that someone is always expected to GIVE away what they spent their resources on or worked hard to produce ?. Those who have their hand out can go and get free seeds from many sources.(one being the 4H ,south of Gratiot on McClellan).


Protecting their crops? Why should they have to?

The LL attitude and code of conduct that prevails in this city wont allow success for this project or most any other . Oh except for GIMME GIMME GIMME

[wash_man]

From a press release:

"Heading up Hantz Farms LLC, will be Matt Allen, a Detroit resident and
advocate for Hantz's vision."

Yes, THAT Matt Allen! I recognized him on Channel 7. Maybe he can "green" up the area by wearing his old Kwame Kilpatrick varsity/campaign jacket.

[Johnlodge]

From a press release:

"Heading up Hantz Farms LLC, will be Matt Allen, a Detroit resident and
advocate for Hantz's vision."

Yes, THAT Matt Allen! I recognized him on Channel 7. Maybe he can "green" up the area by wearing his old Kwame Kilpatrick varsity/campaign jacket.

Oh, THAT Matt Allen! Instead of beating his ho, he'll be hoeing his beets.

http://michiganoidv.blogspot.com/2007/11/matt-allen-detroit-mayor-press.html

[Blueidone]

Wash_man...my thought exactly. Maybe the fact that he is involved makes me think there's some kind of scam here. I'm all for adding to the tax base, so maybe on that basis I can think this is a good idea. But the article I looked at from the Free Press shows a little more than some farming, including wind farms on the lots.

Keep the comments coming...I am truly open minded about this and trying to thoughtfully weigh the pros and cons. But since I don't live in the City itself, it really won't affect my daily living. But I do want what is best for the RESIDENTS of the City. As part of a group that is trying to better the life of at least one neighborhood, I want to be able to make the right decision whether to support this effort or not.

[rjk]

I wouldn't want a farm on my block, but I don't live in the Chene and Warren area or some other areas in the city that basically look like farm land as it is.
How do you ruin the Chene/St. Aubin area by placing a farm there? That area has been on the wrong side of ruined a long time ago.

I'd be a lot more hopeful about this project if it was headed by someone not named Matt Allen. I can still picture that little wiener confronting Steve Wilson and acting like a complete idiot.

[Gannon]

It is not the appearance of commercial farms that would alter the land negatively, but the waves of influence and attention drawn to the area as Government Farm Bureaucracy is drawn into the fray...we should fight tooth and nail to keep this a truly indigenous organic movement, even to the point of legislating whether GM seeds can be planted in an open environment...I say they should ONLY be allowed in closed-system greenhouses!

That is the ONLY way we can insure they won't infect our crops, putting us at risk of their silly-ass controlling lawsuits and the like.

Plus, some of those hearty gene-swapped frankenfoods may just prove too robust for the ecological balance...I don't want them ANYWHERE in Detroit.

Swap real legacy seeds, keep our food supply FREE!

[Detroitej72]

Hey, at least Matt Allen is trying to do some good for the city, unlike Kwame, who left town.

On second thought, maybe Kwame did make Detroit better...

[Johnnny5]

Wash_man...my thought exactly. Maybe the fact that he is involved makes me think there's some kind of scam here..

There's no way this could possibly be a profitable enterprise without some underhanded dealings or extremely generous tax incentives. Cheap farmland is abundant in Michigan and the price has been dropping with the decreased price for corn (Death of the ethanol bubble.) The costs involved just to get these areas ready to plant would be astronomical. Removing residential infrastructure, purchasing privately owned property (Remember there's no eminent domain for private use anymore) environmental issues, taxes, water sources, . Something smells fishy here, but not as fishy as that whole "Urban fish farming" debacle from a few years back.

[detmsp]

Being an active member of the Georgia Street Community Collective, which establishes and supports urban farming, on one hand I agree with this theory. But, I would rather see a growth in our type of farming where the vegetables are free to the neighborhood.
i think there's plenty of room in the city for both commercial and community farming

[jams]

i think there's plenty of room in the city for both commercial and community farming
One difference is the community gardens would willingly move if a better use for the land is available, a commercial farm?

I, like Blueidone, am skeptical, but I am interested to see specific plans before rejecting or supporting such an idea.

[kraig]

Did the Hantz group provide any information on soil remediation? Most of the land in this city is probably too contaminated to for farming. Heck, I know I'm not going to eat anything that was grown on the Uniroyal or Sybill Incoroporated sites.

[hamtown mike]

I hope they're not planning on growing corn. Say some stray pollen grain from a genetically modified plant growing somewhere in west jebus Michigan makes it's way to the Hantz project. Let's say that little pollen gain fertilizes a kernel of corn. Then let's say Monsanto swings by for a visit. They legally demand to inspect and test the corn to ensure that their copyrighted seed was not used to produce the Hantz crop. They pick that one kernel and find the genetic markers. Poof they legally seize the entire crop and sue the living hell out of Hantz.

Keep it organic! Use real seeds!

[Lorax]

Organic is the only way to allow any large-scale farming in Detroit.

Genetically modified crops will destroy the already collapsing bee colonies, which provide us with most of our cross-pollination for our regular crops, flowers, etc.

There is evidence that collapsing bee colonies are in part due to such genetic modifications.

These frankenfoods as the previous poster so well put it, have no place in farming of any kind, urban or rural.

I am wholehartedly against corporate farming in the first place, and really don't care for the stuff you buy in most grocery stores in America, since most everything has no taste, or is not allowed to properly ripen on trees before picked.

I'm old enough to remember when local grocery CHAINS bought locally or regionally grown foods, which maybe looked a little wonky, but tasted great, and had to be used right away or spoil. Before industrial pesticides or genetically altered crap entered our marketplace.

I say a big NO to corporate farming, and a big YES to family-run locally owned and managed urban farming.

[kraig]

Oh, THAT Matt Allen! Instead of beating his ho, he'll be hoeing his beets.

LMAO! That's funny. But you know what? I hope that he's given a fair shot at presenting his case. Personally, I think he's a jerk, but I wouldn't want him to be the reason that urban farming is not given a decent chance in Detroit. After all, we know that a lot of people in this city support or oppose projects simply based on who it is proposing them. His past should be used as a reason to watch him closely, but not to reject him outright.

[TKshreve]

So wouldn't an urban farm attract tons of rats from all the encompassing areas around the farm land?

[kraig]

So wouldn't an urban farm attract tons of rats from all the encompassing areas around the farm land?

I'm sure it will. Probably the two-legged kind more than the four-legged kind. Not to mention, the land it will be growing on will more than likely be toxic. I wouldn't eat from it, but hey, I still support someone's right to pitch their idea and I would hope that the person hearing the idead will keep an open mind. Who knows, they may have some ideas that we haven't thought of.

[Mackinaw]

Why would much of Detroit's land, which has only been used for single-family residential since it was urbanized from its previous state of forest and orchard, be toxic?

Sure, I wouldn't eat from a Delray farm of from a farm by the Packard plant, but most of the city should be free of contamination.

And what the hell is wrong with a corporation?

I don't feel comfortable seeing farms sprout in the inner city; I'd rather see Detroit re-populate. But the reality is that this is probably the most bizarre city in the world with the most unfortunate history and most impossible odds for recovery, so bizarre stuff like this is going to happen. Plus, farming does not preclude future repopulation.

[detmsp]

there's lots of things that can contaminate soil besides industry. lead paint chips, gasoline and oil spills next to garages, people dumping paint, cleaning supplies and other chemicals in the abandoned lot, etc

[Gannon]

Hell, local grassroots-level non-petroleum fertilized or pesticidicized, non-gen modified seedstock will INSURE future population, let alone REpopulation.

We're not talking about taking over land but merely USING that which is laid fallow AND they city must mow lest it become a rat's nest and hindrance to traffic. If the unions bitch about reducing jobs, we could remind them that those same tractors could be used to help plow. Heh, and harvest.


If someone comes along and wants to build on it, at the end of the season after harvest they can do as the proper deed owner is free to do, but no growing crops should be killed ever. But ALL land that is currently not used, recognized, or claimed should be available for the local neighborhood to investigate, remediate (if necessary, and it usually always is at some level), and use to grow food for direct use, storage, and resale at approved public sites...like Eastern Market and that one that popped up on Mack over on the east side.

We must push for 'indigenous' land use rights...and every homeless person and those exiting any government program, including foster care and prison and military service OR those who choose to not take direct support from government agencies should have the ability to control a place for their own food production and basic shelter. Maybe a seven-year squatter rule, giving anyone time to claim deed and the city to finally get their shit together in that department. I've heard too many deed searches lead to some magic bottomless pit.

For neighborhoods that have concern over shacking homeless, they can form associations that will have first dibs over the plots between and adjacent to their owned and tax-paid lots...but Detroit has enough open land to accommodate everyone.

Detroit has enough open land to accommodate everyone.


Far as I can see...


...reversing how many years of the Devil's Night curse?! To me that is poetry.

[Gannon]

Hey, and let's give Matt Allen a break.

He is, at the least, familiar with a certain potent fertilizer.

He could be useful, might not be ABLE to smell the stuff any longer...

[g-dub]

John Hantz lives in Detroit--he has a huge house in Indian Village, and bought the one next door as a guest house. He got some of his top employees to move into the neighborhood, too. Kind of surprising, since these are very much your typical wealthy suburban type financial industry guys. Hantz is easily one of the wealthiest people in Detroit, though not very well-known aside from the building in Southfield that has his name on it. Matt Allen went to work for him after leaving the KK administration. I'm not sure of the level of community involvement Hantz has had in the past, but I can't imagine his investment company is doing very well these days--he's probably looking to branch out for some new revenue, and maybe Matt Allen dropped this idea on his desk.

[Spitty]

Anybody hear any updates on this? I hope this isn't something that just fizzles out because it would be a good thing for so many reasons.

[Trainman]

Did the Hantz group provide any information on soil remediation? Most of the land in this city is probably too contaminated to for farming. Heck, I know I'm not going to eat anything that was grown on the Uniroyal or Sybill Incoroporated sites.

How will you know?

[Spitty]

This story makes it sound like more than a pipe dream. I don't think that picture has anything to do with the farm, but having MSU and the Kellogg Foundation in talks sounds pretty promising. I guess we'll have to see.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/12/29/news/economy/farming_detroit.fortune/index.htm

[Pcm]

"Detroit's first proposed commercial (http://www.freep.com/article/20110808/BUSINESS04/108080324/Commercial-farming-start-Detroit-1-000-trees#) farming enterprise will plant about 1,000 trees, mostly oak saplings, this fall on 3.5 acres of land purchased from the city. The land is behind the Hantz Farms headquarters at 17403 Mt. Elliott on the city's east side."

More here:

http://www.freep.com/article/20110808/BUSINESS04/108080324/Commercial-farming-start-Detroit-1-000-trees

[Django]

Watched the movie Urban Roots at the DFT aweek or so ago. I missed some of the movie but the big concern with the other gardens in Detroit was if a Monsantos type of group would be horning in on this type of project. Thats a big concern if you know about Monsantos (which I only know a little).

Sounds all good but non organic farming in a mainly organic farming area could lead down a bad road.

School me, anyone.

[wolverine]

I hope large scale commercial farming takes root. I think community gardens have their place, but if you want TRUE sustainable agriculture, you need capital intensive investment. There's companies here in Chicago buying vacant warehouses and creating indoor ecosystems.

The problem with community farms is they aren't always
net-zero energy and net-zero waste. That's the way to go....generate entire ecosystems indoors. In enclosed environment, quality goes up as there are no harsh conditions or pests to destroy crops. Additionally, you maximize your yield per square yard since plants are grown vertically. Delivery to people who need produce can also be cheaper since these companies intend to use electric vehicles, and generate their own power source on site. I've also heard another issue with community gardens is they are time and labor intensive, and there isn't always the kind of cooperation you'd want.
I think they are great for building strong relationships with your neighbors. But this isn't agriculture, and it's not what is going to help Detroit. You need to be talking hydroponics and huge industrial warehouses to feed a city...and that's exactly what other cities are doing.

[Hypestyles]

I hope some of these projects can happen. I see room for both select small-scale and select larger-scale to exist. No, city-wide farming is not the ultimate solution to Detroit's woes. No, city-wide farming is not the ultimate solution to Detroit's woes. No, city-wide farming is not the ultimate solution to Detroit's woes (hopefully I repeated that often enough for people to understand, but probably not, lol)..

[Det_ard]

I hope large scale commercial farming takes root. I think community gardens have their place, but if you want TRUE sustainable agriculture, you need capital intensive investment. There's companies here in Chicago buying vacant warehouses and creating indoor ecosystems.

The problem with community farms is they aren't always
net-zero energy and net-zero waste. That's the way to go....generate entire ecosystems indoors. In enclosed environment, quality goes up as there are no harsh conditions or pests to destroy crops. Additionally, you maximize your yield per square yard since plants are grown vertically. Delivery to people who need produce can also be cheaper since these companies intend to use electric vehicles, and generate their own power source on site. I've also heard another issue with community gardens is they are time and labor intensive, and there isn't always the kind of cooperation you'd want.
I think they are great for building strong relationships with your neighbors. But this isn't agriculture, and it's not what is going to help Detroit. You need to be talking hydroponics and huge industrial warehouses to feed a city...and that's exactly what other cities are doing.

This sounds incredibly capital-intensive. How are they net-zero energy in the winter in Chicago? Are they sustainable on an unsubsidized financial basis?

[wolverine]

This sounds incredibly capital-intensive. How are they net-zero energy in the winter in Chicago? Are they sustainable on an unsubsidized financial basis?

Sadly they don't receive subsidies so it is a slow growth process of adding equipment. The buildings are heated by decomposition of waste plant materials. There's enough heat generated from composting to keep the building warm. The buildings must also have been constructed in such a way that USDA standards can be met. But Chicago has plenty of those laying around being once a major center of food production.

But I wouldn't call these operations capital intensive, especially if you can lease the spaces cheap and equipment continues to drop in price, or can be self built. Community farming is extremely labor intensive and have very low yields. Again, I'm in favor of community farming....but for the sake of enhancing neighborhood relationships and education. But you can't feed a neighborhood. When I hear people champion them as a food source for low income folks...that's just impossible.

In the case of Detroit, I see plenty of cheap land that quick to construct, inexpensive facilities can operate on. Basically pull-barns that take up a city block. Not all the operations have to be centralized, but ideally they'd be close to more densely populated areas so that delivery requires the least amount of energy possible.

[CMooreBMoore]

[QUOTE=Johnlodge;7951]Oh, THAT Matt Allen! Instead of beating his ho, he'll be hoeing his beets.

I just died laughing!
My goodness...

[corktownyuppie]

Heard the owner on the Craig Fahle show earlier. What a great way to add a successful business to the city and give hundreds of unskilled employees decent jobs.

This article (http://recoverypark.org/erb-foundation-pledges-1-million-for-proposed-recoverypark-farm-in-detroit/) is a month old or so....I gathered from Fahle's show that this project is now a go.

Now we just need 49 of these and we can really make a dent in turning this ship around.