Dequindre Cut...Open When?

[Boomer313]

Does anyone know if when the Dequindre Cut is officially opening? I walked it and biked it last year before it was open, but we had to get through an opening that someone made in the fence (at the Jefferson end). The modelmedia website
http://www.modeldmedia.com/developmentnews/dequindre18409.aspx
says the official opening is May 14. I can't find anything on the Detroit Conservancy site http://www.detroitriverfront.org/.

Any information is appriciated.

Boomer313

[bike4beer]

I have ridden it multiple times. All the gates have been open. Not sure when the official opening is supposed to be but they may want to do it before every square inch of bench/pole/trash can are tagged.

[rajdet]

http://fadeddetroit.blogspot.com/2009/03/dequindre-cut-set-to-officially-open.html
Faded Detroit Blog says May 14th. I was there for a bike ride a few weeks ago and there are no barriers up.

[Single Malt]

I pass it every day on my way to work. I've seen the southern end entrance open recently. There have also been electricians working on the pole lights. It looks ready to go, but I'm not sure what the deal is.

Looks open to me and there are no signs posted that says it is not.

[bohemianrobot]

I can't wait to ride through the DC at night when the lights work.

Does anyone know when the stretch north of Gratiot is supposed to be finished?

[Rocko]

I'm pretty sure that there are still railroad tracks in place (unused, though) just north of Gratiot, and the rail line Detroit Connecting RR is still active as far south as Mack, so who knows...

[penelope]

I live close by and at the end of last summer my roomate and I rode bikes down there. It is going to be awesome. They should have an opening day bike party.

[Todd_Scott]

I can't wait to ride through the DC at night when the lights work.

Does anyone know when the stretch north of Gratiot is supposed to be finished?
The lights are on -- Go ride! :)

The section north of Gratiot is still privately owned. Discussions with the owner are continuing.

I'll also mention that the City made some quick temporary improvements to the sidewalks along the south side of Gratiot from the Cut to Russell/Eastern Market. This will eventually be properly reconstructed in the near future. And, the conceptual design for the Dequindre Cut north of Gratiot includes ramped access directly into Eastern Market.

[ScienceFair]

I'm really excited about the future plans to link into Eastern Market, that will be fabulous. Does anyone know what the south end of the trail is like now? Last summer there was a chain link fence and a bunch of dirt and sand. It would be nice to have an actual destination at the end that would connect to the River Walk.

[Rocko]

I think the grand plan is to have the Dequindre Trail proceed straight out of the cut and meet the riverwalk at Tri-Centennial Park, right at the renovated Globe Trading Co. building. Not sure if any progress has been made on getting the trail down to Atwater, but no work has begun on the Globe.

As a side point, I was reading in the stimulus projects list and saw that the bridges that carry Larned over the Dequindre cut are due to be replaced with Stimulus money.... how will that work if they just open the trail next month?

[Boomer313]

freep.com just reported the grang opening is may 14

Thanks for all the updates - I'm going ridin'.

http://www.freep.com/article/20090415/BUSINESS06/90415076/1118/RSS

[Gistok]

I just drove by the cut last week, and for all the nice landscaping and work that was done... the remaining sidewalls of the (long ago) removed bridges along the cut.... looks butt ugly! :eek:

[Todd_Scott]

I think the grand plan is to have the Dequindre Trail proceed straight out of the cut and meet the riverwalk at Tri-Centennial Park, right at the renovated Globe Trading Co. building. Not sure if any progress has been made on getting the trail down to Atwater...That's correct. Some work has been done clearing the land for this connector. It can be ridden with fat tires.


As a side point, I was reading in the stimulus projects list and saw that the bridges that carry Larned over the Dequindre cut are due to be replaced with Stimulus money.... how will that work if they just open the trail next month?That's a good question that I wish I had the answer to. The Antietam bridge work certainly did cause issues with D-Cut.

[bohemianrobot]

I am glad to be informed through this thread.

I'll be riding through the DC by this weekend. The weather forecast through Saturday is looking great!

[Todd_Scott]

The Riverfront Conservancy has been getting a number of calls about the No Bikes signs on the Dequindre Cut (http://www.m-bike.org/blog/2009/04/30/those-no-bikes-signs-on-the-dequindre-cut). Those are temporary and are merely intended to discourage use while the trail is under construction.

The grand opening is still scheduled for May 14th at 10am at the southern end (at Woodbridge.)

We'll see you there!

[otter]

TP told me that it was opening on the 14th...I'll be in town that weekend with one of my bikes and I'll look forward to riding it!

O.

[dcmorrison12]

I cannot wait until the DC reaches the Midtown Loop. By this point the DC should already be directly connected to Eastern Market and the Riverfront. This would mean I can walk/bike from my apartment (a block away from the Midtown Loop), through a beautiful greenway in the middle of a large city, in order to get to Eastern Market or the Riverfront. It's really nice riding through the neighborhoods right now, to get to these locations - I love to see the new happenings and enjoy the magnificent ruins/re-developments - but it would be nice to have an artistic, well maintained, smoothe surfaced and landscaped greenway to lead me there as well.

[Django]

I hate seeing the graffiti on the new light poles and emergency squawk boxes but I love the work on the concrete walls. I'm not sure of what the rules are on new spray being laid on the walls but I do hope it continues to go on grow and transform, there's really some nice work down there.

[Blarf]

Lets all prey we don't see anyone wearing those tight spandex bike shorts. That would be a disgrace.

[wolverine]

Just rode the Dequindre cut on Friday before the rain. Was nice to get out of the wind. I really hope to see that last section completed to the riverfront. It's all nice till you hit those brick paved streets at the end.

[GREENTROIT]

Anybody going to the official opening on Thursday? It's supposed to be from 10:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m.

[Todd_Scott]

I'll be there on my chopper.

[gravitymachine]

i would love to go, but my day job precludes me from participating.

[Neilr]

Unless it's spilling rain, I'll be there.

[Designerguy24]

I've been looking everywhere Craigslist.com and such for a cheap mens mountain bike to ride on the Dequinder cut and riverfront and have not found anything. Anyone know where I can get one or know anyone selling one?

[BShea]

Get a cheap one at Dunham's or Target. They carry Schwinn.

We biked the cut tonight for the first time. Very nice. Some shady deals going on when we went down either Franklin or Woodbridge, but we didn't feel unsafe. Kept going on to the riverfront and then downtown to get back home (we live in Lafayette Park and the cut is just a couple blocks from us -- very cool!)

[Designerguy24]

I am looking to spend under $100 for a bike

[dexterferry]

BShea you live in LP and this was your first trip through the cut? I don't live anywhere near there and I've been up and down it dozens of times.

And for the record, I haven't seen anything shady in those dozens of times (I don't consider the homeless guy living between Woodbridge and Franklin shady).

[Todd_Scott]

I've been looking everywhere Craigslist.com and such for a cheap mens mountain bike to ride on the Dequinder cut and riverfront and have not found anything. Anyone know where I can get one or know anyone selling one?

Visit the Hub (http://thehubofdetroit.org/) on Cass just north of MLK.

[gravitymachine]

Get a cheap one at Dunham's or Target. They carry Schwinn

schwinn hasn't been a sign of quality in years, the fact that they are sold in dunham's and target should only emphasize that.

like todd said, go talk to the folks at the hub

[vintagesoul]

I hate seeing the graffiti on the new light poles and emergency squawk boxes but I love the work on the concrete walls. I'm not sure of what the rules are on new spray being laid on the walls but I do hope it continues to go on grow and transform, there's really some nice work down there.

Word is, they were going to allow it at first...but then decided against it thinking (erroneously) that graff writers would resort to physical violence over turf.

They don't, but long story short no painting allowed. Which is too bad - because having legal walls would cut down on illegal painting. Plus we would see some seriously amazing artwork.

[GREENTROIT]

Yeah the legal walls issue has always been a mystery to me. Cities pay so much every year on graffiti prevention and removal, yet these cities provide no public and legal walls.

Especially a city like Detroit. We all know there are thousands of available walls in this city, why not open some up for local artists? Venice Beach's legal walls on the beach are a very well known attraction in the city. I know from experience Detroit has some great unknown artists, and they would benefit from an easy way to express themselves to the public.

The wall art is one of the coolest things about the Dequindre Cut. They should encourage artists to work on the walls.

[gravitymachine]

because having legal walls would cut down on illegal painting. Plus we would see some seriously amazing artwork.

really? there isn't enough abandoned housing/building stock which has been left to rot and that people already don't give a shit about in this city that's perfectly suitable to paint on?

[detmich]

Yeah the legal walls issue has always been a mystery to me. Cities pay so much every year on graffiti prevention and removal, yet these cities provide no public and legal walls.

Especially a city like Detroit. We all know there are thousands of available walls in this city, why not open some up for local artists? Venice Beach's legal walls on the beach are a very well known attraction in the city. I know from experience Detroit has some great unknown artists, and they would benefit from an easy way to express themselves to the public.

The wall art is one of the coolest things about the Dequindre Cut. They should encourage artists to work on the walls.

Yeah, I can't wait to ride with my kids past the beautiful images like this one.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/225/512727002_22db7fb32e.jpg?v=0

[GREENTROIT]

Yeah, I can't wait to ride with my kids past the beautiful images like this one.


Oh my god you're right. I forgot Detroit is filled with forests of lollipops where unicorns play on rainbows and gumdrops fall from the sky.

That is definitely the most frightening, scary, and disgusting thing anybody will see riding thru the D.

[GREENTROIT]

In all seriousness though, if the wall was public, artist could be attached to and held accountable for their work and questionable images wouldn't be put up. I think the one you posted is completely harmless anyway, and a public wall has such quick turnover that it would definitely be painted over within a week.

[Bearinabox]

I'd show that to my kids.

Maybe that's why I don't have any.

[vintagesoul]

really? there isn't enough abandoned housing/building stock which has been left to rot and that people already don't give a shit about in this city that's perfectly suitable to paint on?

wow. i hope you're joking.

[vintagesoul]

Yeah, I can't wait to ride with my kids past the beautiful images like this one.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/225/512727002_22db7fb32e.jpg?v=0

i'll see your krakhead and raise you:

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/bleepbloopbleep/CopyofDSCN0402.jpg
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/bleepbloopbleep/DSCN0410.jpg
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/bleepbloopbleep/DSCN0426.jpg

krakhead is satire anyway. what better time to explain that to your children than while you're riding down a paved clean well-lit walkway that ends in bumtown? lol.

[gravitymachine]

wow. i hope you're joking.

not really. there is plenty of abandoned, unclaimed, unmaintained, and uncared for canvas in this city, some of the posts above make it sound like the cut is the only place for graffiitos to ply their trade

[vintagesoul]

not really. there is plenty of abandoned, unclaimed, unmaintained, and uncared for canvas in this city, some of the posts above make it sound like the cut is the only place for graffiitos to ply their trade

no, it's not. and yes there a ton of places like that to paint. however, what i am saying is if detroit had more legal walls maybe less of that stuff would be painted on.

or the city could tear it down and there'd be less of it to paint on.

either way is fine by me.

[jdg]

Yeah, I can't wait to ride with my kids past the beautiful images like this one.


I don't know, detmich, I DO bike and jog with my kids past the dequindre cut graffiti every day (as well as every day last summer). my daughter likes a lot of the characters the artists have created on the walls.

it's all in your perspective I guess. I am much more concerned about the impression my kids get driving through an average strip mall district up in Oakland County.

[Designerguy24]

what do you guys think of this bike? its a Mongoose XR-75 Mountain Bike http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=10660674

[Bearinabox]

I don't know, detmich, I DO bike and jog with my kids past the dequindre cut graffiti every day (as well as every day last summer). my daughter likes a lot of the characters the artists have created on the walls.

it's all in your perspective I guess. I am much more concerned about the impression my kids get driving through an average strip mall district up in Oakland County.
Ha, yeah. I've met people who think strip malls are normal, and my only consolation is that I am not responsible for the existence of such people. Knowing that I brought them into this world would be too much for me to handle. :D

[gravitymachine]

what do you guys think of this bike? its a Mongoose XR-75 Mountain Bike http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=10660674


its a piece of junk, as are all department store bikes. also, there is no need for any suspension when riding on the street (not that it would be any good on a cheap bike like that anyways)

go find a quality used bike at the hub http://www.thehubofdetroit.org/

[jdg]

designerguy, craigslist is also a great source of higher-quality bikes at great prices if you're in a hurry. I've had a request open at the hub for a few weeks, but they've been so busy (which is great) that they haven't gotten to it yet.

The hub and the wheelhouse are both run by great people. But if the hub still has a wait and the wheelhouse doesn't have a bike you're interested in, be sure to check out the latest offerings on craigslist.

[otter]

Designerguy,

I would, as a matter of course, avoid virtually anything that you find at Walmart. There is a single exception I know of, but I can't think of it right now. I would have suggested the Hub also, but someone else did first. I would go to Craigslist first, and it is not too hard to find a decent bike for $100 used, but impossible to do so new. I don't think the slections of good/interesting bikes on Detroit CL is that great, but there's nothing to be done about that - it is what is is. Ann Arbor is a bit better, but has much less qty.

O.

[detmich]

I don't know, detmich, I DO bike and jog with my kids past the dequindre cut graffiti every day (as well as every day last summer). my daughter likes a lot of the characters the artists have created on the walls.

it's all in your perspective I guess. I am much more concerned about the impression my kids get driving through an average strip mall district up in Oakland County.


I grant it to you, that is true too. It would just be nice if something in the city could be pristine. That's all.

[Designerguy24]

I am moving to midtown on Saturday and want to join a bicycle group anyone have any suggestions?

[dexterferry]

detmich: it's pretty darn pristine compared to how it was for years before this renovation. did you ever see the cut then?

[Designerguy24]

I am going down for the opening today where is the best place to park?

[GREENTROIT]

detmich: it's pretty darn pristine compared to how it was for years before this renovation. did you ever see the cut then?

Very very true. And the graffiti on the walls was there long before the bike path and lighting was. I don't understand how somebody thinks the art on the walls doesn't add character? It's such a better and more interesting place than it would be if all the walls were bleached concrete... It would be so sterile. I love it the way it is and wish they encouraged it to evolve. I can promise the artists will still hit the walls, legal or not.

[vintagesoul]

Very very true. And the graffiti on the walls was there long before the bike path and lighting was. I don't understand how somebody thinks the art on the walls doesn't add character? It's such a better and more interesting place than it would be if all the walls were bleached concrete... It would be so sterile. I love it the way it is and wish they encouraged it to evolve. I can promise the artists will still hit the walls, legal or not.

THIS.

they will most likely continue, though I know the guards posted (when they are actually there and on duty) have been harrassing the writers. for some reason they think there will be physical violence, but that's not what they are about.

I remember when I lived in Lafayette towers, I saw the cut for the first time and when I went down there a kid was doing a full-on cityscape probably a good 10 feet long... it was amazing. Who wouldn't find enjoyment of watching artists paint while they strolled casually through the cut?

[detmich]

You guys have been in this abusive relationship called "living in Detroit" for too long.

[vintagesoul]

You guys have been in this abusive relationship called "living in Detroit" for too long.

lol. i think you might like the bike path at Kensington better. :p

[gravitymachine]

You guys have been in this abusive relationship called "living in Detroit" for too long.

or possibly suffering from the stockholm(detroit) syndrome

[GREENTROIT]

Soooo did anybody go to the "Grand Opening?" I have a day job so was a no-show...

[ruxy17]

Designguy, I just bought a bike and I live in the new center and I'll ride with you any day of the week. I practically haven't been off the thing since I got it!

[Designerguy24]

That would be awsome ruxy17 I'd be down for that! I am moving to E. Ferry Street in Midtown so I'll be at the Dequindre Cut all the time!!!

[BShea]

also, there is no need for any suspension when riding on the street

Unless you're going to drive your bike by car to the cut, ride it only there, then take it by car back to your home, then you need suspension. Detroit's streets can be nasty, and when you get to the end of the cut by the water, there are brick roads down there.

Street bikes are nice in the 'burbs, but my limited riding so far where I live in Detroit has made me thankful I have suspension. It's a fun, but rough ride at times.

[gravitymachine]

Those must be some shit roads you are riding.

or bill shea is 70 years old

[dexterferry]

or his knees are just sore from all that time he spends in the vicinity of matty moroun's anal cavity.

[Pcm]

Whoa. Painful reading.

[East Detroit]

Street bikes are nice in the 'burbs, but my limited riding so far where I live in Detroit has made me thankful I have suspension. It's a fun, but rough ride at times.

Where do you live? The railroad yards?

[Django]

Oh my god you're right. I forgot Detroit is filled with forests of lollipops where unicorns play on rainbows and gumdrops fall from the sky.

That is definitely the most frightening, scary, and disgusting thing anybody will see riding thru the D.

Exacatamundo.

[urbanoutdoors]

I walked the cut tonight and was pleased to see a good amount of people out there from 7:30 to 8:30... :) It was my 4th time on the cut and by far the busiest...

[rjlj]

Designerguy24,
There are plenty of independent bike stores in the Detroit area. Please do not purchase Chinese made garbage from walmart(no offense to any Chinese people on the board).

[East Detroit]

I once bought a bike from an independent bike shop in Detroit and the chain popped off the front crank while I was in the middle of shifting! This was about 10 years ago. I just want what is for ME and MY wants. So, from now on I will only buy Chinese bikes.

[Django]

I'm curious where all the thoughts came from about violence over the graff. This is Detroit, we don't have a huge gang problem like LA or Chicago where street corners are tagged to mark territory of drug suppliers. The taggers here in our city just seem to see how much they can spray their signature all over, its not about gangs or owning an area, just bragging rights. Much of the DCs graff is well thought out, obviously comes from someone who takes his art fairly seriously (have you ever tried to spray paint something that turned out half as nice as anything down there?)

As far as the spray that reflects a negative attitude such as the ^above^ pics of "DEAD CRAK HEAD" it is what it is, a reflection of the city and its demeanor. I think its necessary for a progress out of that way of thinking, or as I like to think, at least a different direction, whatever that may be.

Id like to think the walls in the cut could be sanctioned to artists to do what they want with the space. A 50' section could be given to one particular artist to do what they want, but then the grit of that persons art would quickly be scrutinized by do gooders, for instance someone spraying "dead crak head" on a public wall. That of course would be taken down along with the beauty of the whole experiment. It would all become to suck. I love the forthrightness of the whole thing as it is but it really doesn't look good for the real artists who spray down there as politics and bureaucracy will prevail.

Forthrightness, look it up you.

[LodgeDodger]

I'm curious where all the thoughts came from about violence over the graff. This is Detroit, we don't have a huge gang problem like LA or Chicago where street corners are tagged to mark territory of drug suppliers. The taggers here in our city just seem to see how much they can spray their signature all over, its not about gangs or owning an area, just bragging rights. Much of the DCs graff is well thought out, obviously comes from someone who takes his art fairly seriously (have you ever tried to spray paint something that turned out half as nice as anything down there?)

As far as the spray that reflects a negative attitude such as the ^above^ pics of "DEAD CRAK HEAD" it is what it is, a reflection of the city and its demeanor. I think its necessary for a progress out of that way of thinking, or as I like to think, at least a different direction, whatever that may be.

Id like to think the walls in the cut could be sanctioned to artists to do what they want with the space. A 50' section could be given to one particular artist to do what they want, but then the grit of that persons art would quickly be scrutinized by do gooders, for instance someone spraying "dead crak head" on a public wall. That of course would be taken down along with the beauty of the whole experiment. It would all become to suck. I love the forthrightness of the whole thing as it is but it really doesn't look good for the real artists who spray down there as politics and bureaucracy will prevail.

Forthrightness, look it up you.

Similar to the East Side Gallery in Berlin? Some of the tags around our city are rather pretty. I just don't care for the stuff on buildings...

[dexterferry]

anyone who thinks there isn't gang activity or gang-related graffiti in Detroit just doesn't know what to look for. a lot of vice lords identifiers. 7-mile. usually painted on garages, very much to identify territory.

obviously different from what's going on in the cut or what the .........s are doing on buildings. but let's not kid ourselves about a lack of gang graf in detroit.

[hubbardfarmer]

I went to Friends School on St. Aubin in the 1970's and used to take one of the bridges over the cut to go to Lafayette Plaza for ice cream or whatever. It was pretty overgrown and scary even back then.

[Django]

Dexterferry, Gang graff does exist in the city but not like in others, and I havent known it to be a major factor in violence over turf here but then again Im a few miles south of 7. My screen name could be Cheneferry Dexterferry. We get a few tags here and there but nothing that seems more than kids playing LA style.

Whats up with them and garage doors anyway.

[vintagesoul]

Dexterferry, Gang graff does exist in the city but not like in others, and I havent known it to be a major factor in violence over turf here but then again Im a few miles south of 7. My screen name could be Cheneferry Dexterferry. We get a few tags here and there but nothing that seems more than kids playing LA style.

Whats up with them and garage doors anyway.

I lol'd at the garage doors mention.

Yes, there is gang graff... but the people who write more artistically are not affiliated and they don't mess with those guys afaik.

I don't get the thinking behind the violence accusation either, though that is pretty much hearsay so maybe it will change later on and writers will be allowed down there again. I hope they are too because it would be nice to have ever-changing scenery there. I think it would be a big draw for people...like I mentioned before who wouldn't want to sit and watch someone work on an elaborate piece? I was just over at St. Andrew's yesterday with some people who were doing a commissioned piece and tons of people who were going to/from the hoedown were stopping and taking pics and watching...and that was in an alley that wasn't really set up for people to walk through.

The cut will be nice either way, though. I'm interested to see if they will extend it further north....

[SDRdesign]

The cut opened on last Thursday. I havent walked it yet, but it looks nice at it's entrance though! Hopefully this weekend...
I'm not sure where info on it is. I found out through Preservation Wayne folks while helping with a tour at EM.

[Johnlodge]

You graffiti apologists just reinforce the general disrespect for other people's property that is already rampant. It's vandalism, plain and simple If it's not yours, don't fuck it up, how difficult is that? And why should there be a "legal" wall? You really think the people spraying this shit are going to say "oh, a legal wall, now I don't have to disrespect things that aren't mine!" How about the graffiti "artists" put a wall up in one of the vacant lots and spray on that? They can spend a fun day laying brick together, and when they're done they can spray their "art" all over it without destroying public property.

[GREENTROIT]

Well because somebody owns that vacant lot and we wouldn't want to harm other peoples property by building a wall on it now would we????

And most graffiti artists don't touch private property. It's sort of an unspoken rule that only public property should be touched. And as far as public property goes, the art should fit with its surroundings...

[Johnlodge]

Well because somebody owns that vacant lot and we wouldn't want to harm other peoples property by building a wall on it now would we????

And most graffiti artists don't touch private property. It's sort of an unspoken rule that only public property should be touched. And as far as public property goes, the art should fit with its surroundings...

Hey, you're starting to get the idea of respecting things that don't belong to you. Public property doesn't belong to you either, though, so unless you have the permission of the public, IE the local municipality, then your "art" doesn't belong on that either, because our tax dollars pay for it.

[gravitymachine]

And most graffiti artists don't touch private property. It's sort of an unspoken rule that only public property should be touched....

on that first point, you must be living in a different city than i am (detroit), and on the second, what makes public property so deserving of the honor?

[detmich]

Hey, you're starting to get the idea of respecting things that don't belong to you. Public property doesn't belong to you either, though, so unless you have the permission of the public, IE the local municipality, then your "art" doesn't belong on that either, because our tax dollars pay for it.

How about taggers get together and buy some thing of their own to tag on? Or is that too middle class for their sensibilities? Greentroit and Django you are simply acting as apologists for vandals. No rationalization, no clarification required. Whether you think it looks nice is irrelevant. Vandalising other's property is aggresive, illegal, antisocial behavior. You may enjoy it, much as a john enjoys his time with a prostitute, but it doesn't make it right.

[vintagesoul]

How about taggers get together and buy some thing of their own to tag on? Or is that too middle class for their sensibilities? Greentroit and Django you are simply acting as apologists for vandals. No rationalization, no clarification required. Whether you think it looks nice is irrelevant. Vandalising other's property is aggresive, illegal, antisocial behavior. You may enjoy it, much as a john enjoys his time with a prostitute, but it doesn't make it right.

wow. your ignorance is impressive.

count me in as an apologist. and show me the research that points to the type of graffiti that we are referring to as being "antisocial" or "agressive". there's neither of those qualities involved. the people who do that sort of art only search for a place to do it. end of story.

[detmich]

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/6402/mosque2uj.jpg

You're right, I take it back.

[detmich]

I see your point, I want to invite these guys over for dinner, they're just looking for a place to create their art.

http://blog.mlive.com/kzgazette/2008/06/large_Graffiti1.jpg

Vsoul- you avoided the reality of the matter. Answer the question I asked instead of trying to attack me. WHy don't taggers get together, buy their own place, and tag away on it?

[vintagesoul]

You graffiti apologists just reinforce the general disrespect for other people's property that is already rampant. It's vandalism, plain and simple If it's not yours, don't fuck it up, how difficult is that? And why should there be a "legal" wall? You really think the people spraying this shit are going to say "oh, a legal wall, now I don't have to disrespect things that aren't mine!" How about the graffiti "artists" put a wall up in one of the vacant lots and spray on that? They can spend a fun day laying brick together, and when they're done they can spray their "art" all over it without destroying public property.

Thank you for the chuckle. Great suggestion, I'd love to hear your solution for our homeless population. Perhaps we could build a wall...say near 8 mile...

lol sorry, I couldn't resist. C'mon, I'm willing to listen to real ideas and solutions to problems, but the people on here who seem to have a personal vendetta against people who do graff is just incredible. I can't possibly take you seriously.

as a detroit resident, I personally hope the walls in the cut become fully legal and that there are more legal walls allowed in the city. i love graff, i look for it everywhere i go.

[detmich]

You are so cool. I hope I can be as free and easy as you are one day.

Can I borrow your fixed gear please?

[vintagesoul]

I see your point, I want to invite these guys over for dinner, they're just looking for a place to create their art.

http://blog.mlive.com/kzgazette/2008/06/large_Graffiti1.jpg

Vsoul- you avoided the reality of the matter. Answer the question I asked instead of trying to attack me. WHy don't taggers get together, buy their own place, and tag away on it?

You're ridiculous. Those pictures only confirm your ignorance. No one in their right mind would group actual gang writings and hate as part of what I am talking about. Do you see that in the cut? Do you think that's what we are talking about? Do you think I support that? If you do you are really even more ignorant than I thought.

If you want to have a real discussion, where you can bring up real arguments that I can take seriously, let me know.

[vintagesoul]

You are so cool. I hope I can be as free and easy as you are one day.

Can I borrow your fixed gear please?

Maybe, but only if you ask me nicely. :rolleyes:

[Johnlodge]

wow. your ignorance is impressive.

count me in as an apologist. and show me the research that points to the type of graffiti that we are referring to as being "antisocial" or "agressive". there's neither of those qualities involved. the people who do that sort of art only search for a place to do it. end of story.

Bullshit, it doesn't matter if it's art or not. Art is subjective. And unless everybody who owns public property, IE the public, agrees to allowing you to spraypaint all over it, then it is vandalism. I like certain kinds of art too, I graduated from art school. I'm not going to come over to your house and do whatever I want on it, or on your city's municipal buildings as though I have some kind of right to do so. It is vandalism, end of story.

[Johnlodge]

You're ridiculous. Those pictures only confirm your ignorance. No one in their right mind would group actual gang writings and hate as part of what I am talking about. Do you see that in the cut? Do you think that's what we are talking about? Do you think I support that? If you do you are really even more ignorant than I thought.

If you want to have a real discussion, where you can bring up real arguments that I can take seriously, let me know.

What does resorting to personal attacks confirm about the poster?

[vintagesoul]

Bullshit, it doesn't matter if it's art or not. Art is subjective. And unless everybody who owns public property, IE the public, agrees to allowing you to spraypaint all over it, then it is vandalism. I like certain kinds of art too, I graduated from art school. I'm not going to come over to your house and do whatever I want on it, or on your city's municipal buildings as though I have some kind of right to do so. It is vandalism, end of story.

You're right, it is subjective.

I don't see any of the artists I'm referring to putting pieces on:

a. Municipal Buildings
b. People's houses

So, where did you come up with that argument?

Here's my stance - graffiti should remain illegal as it is. There should be legal walls. A lot of them. The more the merrier. The cut should be a legal place to paint. That's how I feel about it.

The people who create that other garbage the detmich posted should be arrested for gang-related activity. Period. It has nothing to do with art, clearly, and he was only posting it in a lame attempt to make an argument that graff is not art. Everyone else can see that is clearly not what I am supporting.

Now, I'm done bickering with you two. If you have VALID arguments about the cut not being legal and against legal walls or anything else I am supporting here, please let me know.

[vintagesoul]

What does resorting to personal attacks confirm about the poster?

Oh it's not personal.

[detmsp]

You're ridiculous. Those pictures only confirm your ignorance. No one in their right mind would group actual gang writings and hate as part of what I am talking about. Do you see that in the cut? Do you think that's what we are talking about? Do you think I support that? If you do you are really even more ignorant than I thought.

If you want to have a real discussion, where you can bring up real arguments that I can take seriously, let me know.
yeah you do see that in the cut. sure, a lot of it is pretty cool looking, but what about the a-holes who tagged the sign with the rendering of the project and the emergency phones? the problem is you can't find a way to allow the stuff that is "art" and ban the stuff that isn't.

[vintagesoul]

yeah you do see that in the cut. sure, a lot of it is pretty cool looking, but what about the a-holes who tagged the sign with the rendering of the project and the emergency phones? the problem is you can't find a way to allow the stuff that is "art" and ban the stuff that isn't.

This is true. You're absolutely correct - but my understanding is that there are supposed to be regular police bike patrols. If people are doing *anything* illegal, including writing on things they are not supposed to, then that should be dealt with.

Writing on things illegally is a crime - yes. So are lots of things...like being mugged. You can't ban all those things either. They still happen. Even though they are not supposed to.

I cannot agree that banning graff from the cut completely is the only answer. It won't prevent those things you mentioned from happening, and without anything else on the walls I think it will look even worse and stick out even more.

By making the walls legal you will encourage some of the best artists in detroit to come out and put their work on those walls. It will encourage ever-changing scenery and something interesting for people to stop and watch...which will ultimately encourage people to spend more time down there. That is the goal right? For people to spend a lot of time down there?

[detmich]

You're right, it is subjective.

I don't see any of the artists I'm referring to putting pieces on:

a. Municipal Buildings
b. People's houses

So, where did you come up with that argument?

Here's my stance - graffiti should remain illegal as it is. There should be legal walls. A lot of them. The more the merrier. The cut should be a legal place to paint. That's how I feel about it.

The people who create that other garbage the detmich posted should be arrested for gang-related activity. Period. It has nothing to do with art, clearly, and he was only posting it in a lame attempt to make an argument that graff is not art. Everyone else can see that is clearly not what I am supporting.

Now, I'm done bickering with you two. If you have VALID arguments about the cut not being legal and against legal walls or anything else I am supporting here, please let me know.


Great idea! But may I propose a hypothetical? Just a little "what if" for us to bounce back and forth. Okay, let's say that I like to draw graffiti, and I want to draw my graffiti on the legal walls. Now, my subjects are a little off color. I like to portray naked women being lybched, big titted ones at that. Then, Sometimes I like to spray paint "fuck all kikes", but I lay the words out in the form of a swastika. Sometimes I write "coons go back to africa" or "honky needs his ass kicked", all in the most creative manner imaginable and in a font that is aestethically pleasing. Of course, I'' akways have really cool graphics to go with the lettering, you know to help tell the story. Would that be cool too, or would you think that was not cool at all.

How about if the gangs want to start "tagging" on those walls. Would that be cool, a little MS-13 action up against the LKs or Bloods? Or, would the cool folks, you know, folks like you, would you guys keep all that under control? In other words, would you cool guys censor what got put on the walls? Or would it be open season, and anything goes. Because I want to knowwhere you really cool guys draw the line between hip and not so cool to have around.

[vintagesoul]

Great idea! But may I propose a hypothetical? Just a little "what if" for us to bounce back and forth. Okay, let's say that I like to draw graffiti, and I want to draw my graffiti on the legal walls. Now, my subjects are a little off color. I like to portray naked women being lybched, big titted ones at that. Then, Sometimes I like to spray paint "fuck all kikes", but I lay the words out in the form of a swastika. Sometimes I write "coons go back to africa" or "honky needs his ass kicked", all in the most creative manner imaginable and in a font that is aestethically pleasing. Of course, I'' akways have really cool graphics to go with the lettering, you know to help tell the story. Would that be cool too, or would you think that was not cool at all.

How about if the gangs want to start "tagging" on those walls. Would that be cool, a little MS-13 action up against the LKs or Bloods? Or, would the cool folks, you know, folks like you, would you guys keep all that under control? In other words, would you cool guys censor what got put on the walls? Or would it be open season, and anything goes. Because I want to knowwhere you really cool guys draw the line between hip and not so cool to have around.

First of all, hate speech is illegal last time I checked, and so are all of the other things you mentioned. Soooooo if I am not mistaken those would not be permitted on a legal wall.

Here's the answer to your hypothetical:

1. That stuff doesn't really go on as it is now when no one is policing what goes on those walls, the writers do it themselves.
2. As part of having a legal wall, there can be rules about what type of content can be posted, and those rules can be enforced by law enforcement.
3. If that sort of content is posted beyond what law enforcement can enforce, then it should be buffed over, just straight up rolled over with solid color paint.

Now, do I think that all rules are going to prevent all things evil? No. I would never say that. However, I think that it is completely feasible to create and enforce rules for a legal wall. I don't know if you know it, but other cities do it and it has had a positive impact.

Also, I can see you're trying to be offensive on purpose. Good job. I hope you think you are accomplishing something by saying those things. It wasn't even necessary to spell them out - you could have simply said "offensive pornography" or "racial slurs" etc. I think your attempt to make a point on this was weak.

Just to be clear - I'm not making any accusations of your character, detmich, but rather the words you have posted are weak and again, ignorant. The lengths you go to try and prove a point are impressive yet you still fail.

Saying nasty things won't change my mind. That sort of thing may happen in all reality, but it's all about taking in the good with the bad. I wholeheartedly believe that in looking at the cut in the past four years I have never seen the events you describe above take place in higher volume than the type of graff I am speaking of.

I don't think the type of people who do that sort of writing are going to leave their comfy hoods to come all the way down here to put that up on a legal wall. Why would they bother? Do you think after years and years of doing things the way they have been done, that making it legal to paint on those walls is going to force all the absolute creeps to come out and suddenly outnumber the people who do art? I mean, really?

Realistically, it's easier for them to do it by their homes - on their gang territory if you will. And gosh, I don't think I've seen most of that stuff you listed anywhere in this city...heh. That's pretty bold of you to start throwing around possibilities that aren't even really happening in real life. [I drive around and take pictures of all the graff I can find - good AND bad] Why would they start now? I think the worst thing I've ever seen on the wall is the cheesy cholo crap over in southwest and maybe that arabic slur you posted earlier. Which is just part of life. I don't like it, but I'm not going to associate talented writers with it, and to do so is just plain ignorant. They are clearly not of the same breed and you know it.

They are two independent things, and are only related by the fact they are done with spray paint on a wall. The type of people who do art and the type of people who write hate speech are not one and the same.

Any other hypotheticals you would like to discuss?

[vintagesoul]

Because I want to knowwhere you really cool guys draw the line between hip and not so cool to have around.

Hip = art that enhances the environment
Not so cool to have around = people who say "get off my lawn"

Hope that helps. :D

[rjk]

i'll see your krakhead and raise you:

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/bleepbloopbleep/CopyofDSCN0402.jpg
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/bleepbloopbleep/DSCN0410.jpg
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/bleepbloopbleep/DSCN0426.jpg


If that's the most impressive so-called art on the DC my vote is for pristine walls.
That's the problem with most graffiti artists. They're not nearly as good as they think they are.

[vintagesoul]

That's the problem with most graffiti artists. They're not nearly as good as they think they are.

Interesting viewpoint. Care to elaborate?

[Bearinabox]

Great idea! But may I propose a hypothetical? Just a little "what if" for us to bounce back and forth. Okay, let's say that I like to draw graffiti, and I want to draw my graffiti on the legal walls. Now, my subjects are a little off color. I like to portray naked women being lybched, big titted ones at that. Then, Sometimes I like to spray paint "fuck all kikes", but I lay the words out in the form of a swastika. Sometimes I write "coons go back to africa" or "honky needs his ass kicked", all in the most creative manner imaginable and in a font that is aestethically pleasing. Of course, I'' akways have really cool graphics to go with the lettering, you know to help tell the story. Would that be cool too, or would you think that was not cool at all.

How about if the gangs want to start "tagging" on those walls. Would that be cool, a little MS-13 action up against the LKs or Bloods? Or, would the cool folks, you know, folks like you, would you guys keep all that under control? In other words, would you cool guys censor what got put on the walls? Or would it be open season, and anything goes. Because I want to knowwhere you really cool guys draw the line between hip and not so cool to have around.
Hopefully, there would be enough activity on the wall that anything drawn, good or bad, would last a relatively short time. I would think that "good" work would last somewhat longer, because people would be more hesitant to paint over it, and conversely, people would go out of their way to paint over something that is crude or offensive or simply lacking in imagination or effort. I think an aggressively-enforced ban on all painting in the cut is more likely to weed out the more respectable people with real artistic talent who might spend hours on an elaborate piece of art than it is the assholes who just spray a quick slur and run away, if only because the former group are much more likely to be caught in the act.

I guess I just don't think bare concrete is very interesting to look at when you're walking. It would be nice if the cut could remain an attraction in its own right instead of just a way to get from point A to point B.

[Det_ard]

Rode through today. Where's all the good art? 90% pure junk, 10% minor league "art".

[detmich]

Not so cool to have around = people who say "get off my lawn"Are the Power Puff Girls going to keep a lookout for that?

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/5768/677948-fuzzylumpkins_large.jpg

[wolverine]

I personally find the graffiti interesting. If we ignore the surface it's on, and focus on just the paint, its art to some and not to others. I suppose if you don't like it, then stay out of the cut, it's not for you because they left it for a reason.

As for the legality side, it pains me to see any type of graffiti on walls of businesses, homes, overpasses, and abandoned buildings. Every structure carries an aesthetic purpose, but maybe the Dequindre cut doesn't. I guess maybe that's why I really don't care that it exists. It's always been pretty much out of site of the public. No need to clean it up.

I'm sure someone will find a way to twist this, but it's okay. I hate the canvas it's on, but I like the art. I wish there was more of it, but not on private and public property.

[French777]

There is a video on ModelD this week about all the Greenways in Southeast Michigan.

[GREENTROIT]

Some of you are acting like all graffiti is racial slurs and gang related. Who are you kidding?

And while I agree with a previous poster that said the Dq Cut's art is disappointing in a way, I think discouraging legal work plays a role in that. I'm way more of a fan of murals than simply writing. And the Cut is almost entirely writing. If painting was allowed and encouraged, I promise there would be some more impressive work. In fact I would spend a day creating a mural on a walll....

And to balace the ridiculous hate speech pictures, here's an example of good street work featuring the image of Detroit's own... The late, great, J. Dilla...

Ics37pIQa7Y

[rjk]

Interesting viewpoint. Care to elaborate?

I thought my comment was pretty self-explanatory.

Most graffiti art that I've seen is pretty much amateurish stuff. It takes some talent, but not a whole lot. It would be one thing if they commissioned someone to do something, but not for any little hack who thinks he's/she's the Da Vinci of spray paint.

We had planned to hit the DC this Saturday during our trip to EM anyways, but I"m really curious to see it now. I'm not opposed to all GA so I'll go in with an open mind.

Speaking of spray paint, I noticed someone did a little spraying on the Salvation Army store at Michigan and Central. I imagine the SA must be awash in money so it'll be no problem to clean all that black paint off their previously nice white wall.

[vintagesoul]

I thought my comment was pretty self-explanatory.

Most graffiti art that I've seen is pretty much amateurish stuff. It takes some talent, but not a whole lot. It would be one thing if they commissioned someone to do something, but not for any little hack who thinks he's/she's the Da Vinci of spray paint.

We had planned to hit the DC this Saturday during our trip to EM anyways, but I"m really curious to see it now. I'm not opposed to all GA so I'll go in with an open mind.

Speaking of spray paint, I noticed someone did a little spraying on the Salvation Army store at Michigan and Central. I imagine the SA must be awash in money so it'll be no problem to clean all that black paint off their previously nice white wall.

It wasn't self-explanatory - it was one sentence making a very bold sweeping statement about graff writers in general. A statement I do not believe is true. Just because someone puts their stuff on a wall doesn't mean they think it's good. Writers write for all kinds of different reasons, and those who want to get better do so through practice. So you will see different incarnations of them as they improve over time. I don't think any writer just thinks they are so great either, I think other writers think they are great and tell each other - typical art community type stuff.

I'm glad to hear you will go in there with an open mind, but please remember whether you like it or not personally, it is art to someone. I'll be the first to say there are good and bad pieces in there, and right now more bad than good...but the cut is ever-changing and at one time there was more good than bad. Just depends on when you go. It's always a matter of personal preference too. Doesn't mean that people shouldn't be allowed to paint there.

As far as the Salvation Army is concerned, what does that have to do with the cut?

[rjk]

I finally got a chance to check out the DC prior to going to EM this morning.
I was extremely impressed. They did a really nice job with that and it's a great addition to the downtown area.

As far as the graffiti goes, I really don't think it adds much at all, but I don't find it all that intrusive that it takes away from the DC. Reading this thread a week or two ago I was under the impression that there would be much more graffiti and the DC would have a much rougher feel to it.

Someone in this thread had mentioned that minus the graffiti it would have too much of a pristine feeling or something along those lines. Even with the minimal graffiti I thought it pretty much had a pristine and clean look about it. It makes me wonder if graffiti artists would even want to go down there as opposed to going to an area with a grittier feel.

[GREENTROIT]

http://www.freep.com/article/20090624/BUSINESS04/906240318/Dequindre+trail+to+be+linked+to+RiverWalk

The EDC approved an $871,900 lengthening of the Dequindre Cut from Woodbridge (where it ends), to Atwater. Also, the Michigan DNR announced that they will connect the Dequindre Cut to the Riverwalk through Tricentennial State Park. This is supposed to be done by Fall. Good news for the DQ and for greenways in Detroit...

[French777]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3628/3657115444_748d574287.jpg?v=0

missing link between TRI and DC

[French777]

its not very long at all . . .shouldn't take long to complete

[gravitymachine]

http://www.freep.com/article/20090624/BUSINESS04/906240318/Dequindre+trail+to+be+linked+to+RiverWalk

The EDC approved an $871,900 lengthening of the Dequindre Cut from Woodbridge (where it ends), to Atwater. Also, the Michigan DNR announced that they will connect the Dequindre Cut to the Riverwalk through Tricentennial State Park. This is supposed to be done by Fall. Good news for the DQ and for greenways in Detroit...

great news. without meaning to denigrate the many people who have made the cut and the riverwalk possible (and continue to do so), it'll be a much easier sell with a seemless connection between the two

[GREENTROIT]

great news. without meaning to denigrate the many people who have made the cut and the riverwalk possible (and continue to do so), it'll be a much easier sell with a seemless connection between the two

I completely agree. Riding the DQ and Riverwalk are cool, but the short time on the east riverfront roads is terrible. Especially Woodbridge which is paved with bricks, and the rest are just tons of potholes and broken glass, etc. It will be great when they are connected, and even better when they connect the North part of the DQ with the midtown loop.

[Django]

Lets all prey we don't see anyone wearing those tight spandex bike shorts. That would be a disgrace.

Paging Gannon.

[detmsp]

http://detnews.com/article/20090702/OPINION01/907020340/1008/Vandals-ruin-riverfront-pathway


Vandals ruin riverfront pathway

Jonella A. Mongo

The long-awaited opening of the Dequindre Cut Greenway near the Detroit riverfront occurred in mid-May, providing walkers, joggers and bike riders another route to enjoy. But the Riverfront Conservatory's beautiful restoration job is already under attack by graffiti "taggers."
The taggers have spray-painted benches, signage, emergency call boxes and the walkway. It is shameful that with all of the underpass areas devoted to graffiti, these "taggers" vandalized valuable public property. Individuals like myself who frequent this pathway find the spray-painting vandalism disgusting and destructive.
What makes this blatant defacing of property even worse is that it requires additional money to clean and restore vandalized property to its original state. That is money that could be used for a host of other things this area so desperately needs.
Advertisement

Expansion of this $3.25 million project is underway, and it is estimated that the completed 5.5-mile pathway will cost $300 million. That is no small amount of money.
So hopefully taggers and others who vandalize public areas will think twice or find other proper outlets for their creative endeavors. They should leave the benches, signage and pathway the way they were intended -- for the benefit of pedestrians and bikers.