2010 Detroit Tigers [Archive] - DetroitYES Forums

smogboy

February-08-10, 06:20 PM

You're right. It really has been a long time coming for this year's Tiger thread on DYes.

Sure it's still disappointing and puzzling about the departure of Curtis Granderson in light of the Justin Verlander and Jose Valverde signings. One wonders if that deal couldn't have been much closer to the start of the season; it just screamed of fire sale when it was done.

Yes, I could stomach the loss of Polanco (long term contract at his age and for what price?), Edwin Jackson (tailed off towards the end of the season), Fernando Rodney (and we were grousing about Todd Jones' up-&-down performance the years prior?) & Brandon Lyon (nothing too distinguishing during his Tiger career I thought).

There still remains the Johnny Damon possibility here which might not be a bad gig if the price and term is right. I think Dombrowski waiting this one out a little longer might not be a bad thing but I hope it's only for a year or two deal- at most. Everything we've heard is that he's an upstanding guy in the clubhouse and might have a fume left in the tank. Defensively he still scares me, but he could be an interesting lead-off guy and a left handed bat that we've needed forever and a day.

Supposedly Atlanta's cast their hat in the ring for his services, but we'll see how Scott Boras plays this one out. Anyone else's thoughts on signing Johnny Damon?

sirrealone

February-09-10, 08:18 AM

Ray1936

February-09-10, 04:30 PM

For entertainment purposes only.......

Futures odds to win the American League pennant, as posted at the M casino, Henderson, NV (pretty representative of all the LV sports books):

NY Yankees 7/5
Boston Red Sox 4/1
Tampa Bay Rays 7/1
Los Angeles Angels 7/l
Chicago White Sox 10/1
Seattle Mariners 10/1
DETROIT TIGERS 15/1
Minnesota Twins 15/1
Texas Rangers 15/1
Baltimore Orioles 25/1
Oakland Athletics 25/1
Cleveland Indians 30/1
Toronto Blue Jays 30/1
Kansas City Royals 50/1

Over in the National League, the Phillies and Cardinals are favord, 2/1 and 9/5 respectively.

Futures bets are sucker bets. (I put 20 on the Tigers today.) :)

Haikoont

February-10-10, 03:04 AM

smogboy

February-10-10, 08:55 AM

My guess is that the Granderson deal was not about salary so much as getting maximum return. Granderson has had problems hitting left handed for a while, especially last year. As a leadoff hitter, his average was unacceptable. I think Dombrowski & Co. thought that these problems might be persistent. He also knew Granderson still had a high reputation (ie high return in trade value) but that another 'off' year would lower his value much lower than what it is now. He basically saw it as "Granderson had an off year but teams are willing to pay above market value given his performance" and jumped on the deal. The closest equivilent I can come up with is when he traded Jeff Weaver, whose numbers weren't great but had a high value, and got Bonderman, Pena, and Rodney in return. If he would have waited even another year, Weaver would have gotten much less in return.

In the long run, I agree that we might've actually gotten the better part of the deal here too. Emotionally we were pretty well connected to Granderson so I can understand the fans' dismay at sending this guy out of town. It just makes me wonder about the timing though. Were the Tigers actively shopping him or were the Yankees the ones calling first? Heck, if any team out there wants to offer us a great deal, I'd have no problem shipping off anyone. It does leave me to wonder if at some point early on, Mike Ilitch said to shave off some money from the payroll and then changed his mind later with the Valverde & Verlander signings. Also would Granderson's value still be just as high now as it was during the time of the deal? Would Granderson's value have dropped because the Yankees would've looked elsewhere for a center fielder?

The Valvedre signing puzzled me but it's making a little more sense. If they manage to compete, they look good. If they struggle, they can simply trade him mid-year and probably get a good return since closers are always in demand. Plus, depending on how things are going, the closers-in-waiting (Zumaya, Perry, new young guys) could be trade bait to fill in holes if they're in a tight race as long as they stay healthy and perform.

With Rodney & Lyon gone I think we almost HAD to make this deal. I think Fernando Rodney caught lightning in a bottle last year in having the record he did. He was as painful to watch at times as Todd Jones ever was but he got the job done. I don't think Dombrowski & Co. trust Zumaya's health to completely hand over the closer's role to him just yet and Perry is still just way too young to take on that sort of pressure. Having a veteran presence in Valverde makes sense to me; now he just needs to perform!

I'm not sure about Damon. I wouldn't mind a two year deal at no more than $6m per year, but anything more than that and they're either committing too long or paying too much. Bringing in a veteran slugger looked pretty good when they signed Gary Sheffield, too, and that couldn't have turned out worse.

Personally I'd prefer a one year deal and with a club option for another. Front load the one year and have it filled with incentives for the second. I know negotiating with Scott Boras is like dealing with Satan himself at times but for whatever reason, he's done the Tigers fine. I think Damon would work out well here and would produce. But if we do sign him, what's it going to do to Carlos Guillen's role? I know he still fancies himself as an every day player (except in left field and not at DH) but is this going to expose him as a primadonna and not a team player that's willing to accept a reduced role on this team?

They have a lot of junk money coming off the books after this year. One thing to watch is whether Maggs hits his 540 at bats or whatever it is needed to trigger his 2011 option for $18mil. I firmly believe that there is NO, NO, NO way this should be allowed to happen.

I wasn't too hip about him reaching his benchmark last year. Like Guillen, there has to be a point when some of these older players shouldn't be playing day-to-day and getting as many at bats as they do. That's not to say they still shouldn't be productive when they are inserted into the line-up but their glory days are behind them now. $18 million is just way too much to be paying a part time hitter too. Thank goodness for Maggs that his defense the last few years has been serviceable too.

Knocturnal

March-07-10, 04:01 AM

Danny

March-09-10, 10:59 AM

Tigers will make the playoffs this year.

d.mcc

March-09-10, 06:47 PM

Any forumers have luck getting Opening Day tickets this year? My internet experience proved to be slow and trying, but I was able to get two. Unfortunately, they aren't together, but I'll still make the most of it. :)

Not opening day tickets, but I did make it to Lakeland yesterday to take in a spring training game. Sczcherzer (sp?) got rocked, but Ni, Zumaya, and Willis (!!!) came in an pitched pretty well. Willis most especially, even got a standing O on his departure.

Ravine

April-06-10, 12:32 AM

Special One-Time Only Offer!!
Go to MLB.com, and click on "Stats," to see Placido Polanco as MLB RBI Leader. I advise that you do so before tomorrow's games are even so much as one inning old.
Act Now!! Free Temple-Reduction Surgery Offer to first ten viewers!!

smogboy

April-20-10, 10:49 PM

Can someone explain to me Johnny Damon's white cleats?

I haven't had much of a chance to keep up with the Motor City Kitties as of late as it's Red Wings playoffs and the NFL Draft is right around the corner. I just kicked on the Detroit Fox Sports feed and saw Damon sporting some bright white shoes. For a moment I thought it was an exhibition game or some oddball commemorative event.

smogboy

May-02-10, 12:24 PM

Alright, I'm slowly but surely getting back into following our Tigers a little more seriously now. 25 games into the season so far and I'm actually pleasantly surprised.

-A mere half game out of first place?
-The recent stretch of games against good teams on the west coast where they came out faring pretty well?
-The relief pitching being the strength of this team so far?
-Dontrelle Willis & Jeremy Bonderman throwing impressive games?
-Magglio's early power?
-Cabrera seemingly forgetting about last season's ills and hitting with authority?
-Austin Jackson nearly making the Tigers faithful forget about Granderson (who just got put on the Yankees' DL)?
-Valverde not giving us Fernando Rodney or Todd Jones-esque fear in the late innings?

Again, I'm mildly impressed. It's a heckuva long season with a lot more to go, but so far they've seemed scrappy, have had some some strong pitching throughout and the hitting has been more than adequate to go the distance in shoot outs.

smogboy

May-02-10, 06:00 PM

And since it just got done with a few hours ago and it's fresh on my mind, the Verlander performance today against the Angels was amazing. Three miserable hits scattered about? While it wasn't equal to his no-hit game last year, he was still masterful on the mound. He had his heat and his change-ups working to perfection. It really was a joy to watch someone like that pitch for us. It was way cool knowing that Justin was just going to put this team on his back, go deep into the innings just to give the bullpen a break.

Great game. More games like this and I can see a Cy Young trophy on the Verlander mantle before long.

daddeeo

May-09-10, 11:50 AM

I'd like to see the Tigers become more consistent. They have been all over the place this year.
I like their bullpen especially the new closer. I'm afraid Bondo isn't going to get it together and be gone before too long. Too bad they have to carry Guillen for another year. I think if he doesn't cut the mustard this season, they'll have to let him go. He is standing in the way of Boisch.
So far I'm ok with this team, Growing pains are to be expected but I like our new rookies and Avila. Now, if we could get a shortstop who could hit and field.

CLAUDE G

May-10-10, 02:33 AM

I still think we got a good chance of making the play-offs.

The only good thing is that Cleveland owes us a game that was cancelled the other day. So hopefully if it comes down to the wire like it did last year, we can play Cleveland to make up for the tie-breaker.

Good thing Detroit has a good record agenst cleveland right now!

Ravine

May-12-10, 12:26 AM

Two things:

The Detroit Tigers have to show that they can beat the Twins. I don't give a damn what else they do, such as sweeping the Rangers, or making hay in inter-league play, and crap like that. If they're going to amount to anything, they have to be able to beat the Twins. Not every game, obviously, but c'mon. Look at what just happened last week: We didn't face Liriano. We didn't face Pavano (who tends to prosper when pitching to us.) Mauer was out, owing to the fact that our idea of getting the best of Big Joe is to have him hurt himself by slamming his heel into one of our bases. Morneau was suffering from back soreness. Joe Nathan is out for the season.
And they still whipped us like we're runts of the litter.
It seems that the Twins can beat us with Kevin Slowey and Nick fuckin' Punto. Disgusting & discouraging.

Other thing:

If-- and it's a big-ass "if," in my opinion-- the Tigers can actually position themselves for a realistic shot at the playoffs, could they please not allow the sorry-ass Kansas City Royals to fuck it up? Please?

Ravine

May-14-10, 08:34 AM

Flanders

May-14-10, 01:26 PM

Tigers took 3 of 4 from the Yankees, albeit @ home, including TWO shutout wins, that certainly helped me forget about their sweep @ the hands (and bats) of the Twins. Now they play the underachieving Red Sox over the weekend, while the Twins go up against the Yankees on the road. Excellent opportunity for the Tigers to close the gap between them and the first place Twins. Hoping for two of three.

Boesch has been brought up while Guillen is on the DL, and is hitting the ball hard, and Austin Jackson has been better than could be hoped for, despite the Ks he is amassing, although his BABIP indicates that he "should" come down to earth sooner or later (hopefully MUCH later). The Tigers obviously got the best of the three team trade between them, the Diamondbacks, and the Yankees. Sherzer has not pitched well, but he is young and hopefully will improve as the season progresses.

What will the Tigers do when Guillen is ready to come off the DL???

Flanders

May-14-10, 01:40 PM

See, this is why I don't bother posting here anymore, and discuss baseball in another forum. The Tigers just won 3 out of 4 against the Yanks, topped off by a terrific game on Thursday, and this thread is comatose, as usual.
I won't bother, anymore.

I frequently post on another baseball forum, and occassionally will browse this one to see if anyone has recently added a reply or two, and only Smogboy has made any effort, but apparently he gave it up as well. Perhaps the Tigers leading the CD during almost the entire season last year, then yet again losing the title to the Twins at the very end, ala '06, has made most of us Tigers fans a little skittish on being too optimistic about the Tigers' chances of clinching a postseason berth. Certainly the performance of the Rays so far, as well as the likelyhood of them or the Yankees claiming the WC spot in the AL ED makes winning the CD the ONLY possible scenario for the Tigers to play in the ALDS, and the Twins seem to be even better than last season, even with the loss of their closer Nathan for the entire year, and they are obviously geeked about playing in their new ballpark...

Yankees fans were grousing about Valverde's antics on the mound, especially the game where he tipped his cap twice while striking out the heart of the order in the 9th inning. Seems to me that Joba also will do a fist pump when he Ks a batter as well, but whatever, the are just angry about losing the series to a team that they feel is not "elite" like theirs is..heh!!

ggores

May-14-10, 03:27 PM

a little skittish on being too optimistic about the Tigers'
Bingo. I am waiting until the next five games are over and done. So far they pretty much look like the same .500+ club as last year, maybe a little bit better. The 3 thru 5 in the pitching rotation needs to really jam to supplement the 1 and 2, and so far, they've not been terribly convincing. As for Guillen, I think it's simple, he'll return to his position. Didn't Leyland say Guillen was the key? Makes me nuts when KC beats us, too.

smogboy

May-15-10, 02:06 AM

I frequently post on another baseball forum, and occassionally will browse this one to see if anyone has recently added a reply or two, and only Smogboy has made any effort, but apparently he gave it up as well.

I haven't given up one bit. This is still OUR Detroit Tigers. I've just been busy pushing the rock uphill trying to make a semi-honest buck. Real life has just kicked my butt as of late and all I've been able to do is just check out the box scores the day after. I wish I could've taken the time to go down and watch a game in person, listen to the game or see it on the tube. It just hasn't happened for me and please don't think I don't care for this team. I really do love this game.

And to mention I'm just making the transition from the Red Wings ouster to baseball. I'm still mourning no winged wheel in June.

But from what little baseball I have seen as of late has been this...

1) Miguel Cabrera- Wow. This guy very well could be a triple crown threat. He seems to have righted his own ship and last year's off field issues have not been a problem at all. He truly is a threat every time he steps up to the plate. His fielding really has come a long way too. I still remember the knock on him when he played third but since transitioning over to 1B, he's been stellar.

2) Brennan Boesch- what a pleasant surprise so far. He seems too have found a nice groove with his timely hitting. It's actually a joy to see a Toledo call-up hit so well.

3) Justin Verlander seems to have his fire and competitive nature back on the bump. He seems to have really mastered throwing the heat as well as the change-up. What a nice range going from 78MPH to his near 100MPH bullets.

4) Austin Jackson- He's making a darn good case to forget about Curtis Granderson. He's patrolling a massive CF with some authority and is hitting an amazing average.

5) The bullpen has been stellar.

6) I wish we could get some power batting from either one of our catchers. Laird & Avila haven't exactly swung the bat with any authority or moxie.

7) Scherzer has been a disappointment so far. He's going to play himself out of the line-up if he continues to serve up the IKEA meatballs to the opposing team. I've heard rumors that he's tipping off his fastball and if he is, needs to figure it out fast.

8) Nice outings as of late from Dontrelle Willis & Jeremy Bonderman. Good going and way to fight and claw themselves into a measure of respectability. Keep up the good work!

9) No offense to Scott Sizemore, but I do miss Polanco and his timely hitting.

10) We need Ravine kvetching about this game & team again. Kansas City be damned; we'll get over that hump somehow. And we'll get better dialogue going about this team going. Like I said before, it's OUR team- if anyone's going to discuss it smartly and rationally, it's going to be us- the loyal fans.

smogboy

May-15-10, 11:44 PM

Before people think that we Detroiters don't care about our beloved team...

WOTTA victory against those Red Sox tonight!

Sure it took 12 innings and we squandered far too many chances, but it was a testimony to how scrappy this team can be. Dontrelle Willis looked lost out there early on, but fortunately the game didn't get away from the Tigers too early and they battled back.

Boesch was a monster out there again. I was pulling for him to complete the cycle for the victory; he would've been elevated to demi-god status if he had done that. I loved the way our bullpen hung in there and held firm against a pretty potent BoSox offense. I'm still perplexed at the bottom third of our batting line-up... how dreadful! Laird left enough guys on base to start a euchre match out there. Seriously if guys like Laird, Inge, Sizemore & Everett can hit .250 each, we'd be deadly.

But they still somehow won. I'll savor that for now but it's bittersweet knowing that some of the guys aren't even hitting their own weight.

daddeeo

May-16-10, 02:14 PM

Is anybody getting sick of Rod Allen blowing hard every game?
Have you ever heard him say anything you haven't heard?
I don't mind him trying to be informative but he never seems to shut up.
It's like him and Mario are afraid of any dead air. It's not like they are
on radio. Ernie Harwell knew how to incorporate the background noises of the ball
park in his broadcasts.
When you are on TV, most people can see the obvious. It's annoying
when a broadcaster drones on and on. I'd completely turn the sound down but I enjoy the occasional crowd sounds.
Anyone else notice this?

Flanders

May-17-10, 03:13 PM

Sizemore and Scherzer go to the minors, and Worth with Galarraga back up with the club. Guillen apparently is going to play 2B when he completes his rehab after being on the DL..hmmm...

Sizemore was dead last in the AL for fielding range, and about the middle of the pack for zone, so even though Guillen obviously won't improve on those, he may mitigate his fielding by hitting better than Sizemore, who was straddling the Mendoza line when he was demoted. We will see if he can play the position well enough until he is replaced for better defense (Worth) late in games that the Tigers are winning, or if they are being blown out. He also has to remain healthy, which is less likely than if he was just the Tigers' DH, but maybe more likely if he was to play in LF.

Laird and Avila are "hitting" a miniscule .159 and .143, respectively...Yikes!!
Unfortunately veteran starting catchers that hit above .250 and are also above average defensively aren't exactly plentiful in MLB, and I think DD was too SP obsessed in the draft over the past 4 or 5 years, and did not strongly address their near future needs for catching, or the left side of the infield. There is not one single catcher in the Tigers' system, from A ball to AAA that is hitting above .200 this season so far...Double Yikes!!!

There are a few FA catchers who do not have an option year for 2011, but the competition from quite a few teams to sign them, including the teams that they now play for, will be fierce. The Yankees and Boston alsocould be in the running for younger catchers than Varitek, Martinez. and perhaps less likely, Posada. The Red Sox could then trade either Varitek and/or Martinez for pitching or IF/OF improvements.

smogboy

May-20-10, 12:59 AM

As disappointing as was Porcello's performance was on the one lone game versus the White Sox the other day, Justin Verlander performed like a stud on the mound against the A's. Five hits the A's and completes the game too? The Athletics were on fire just recently against Seattle as of late too. I'm sure the bullpen thanked him for not having to drag themselves into the fray. This team needs a guy like that who can go deep into games and spare some of those arms. I heard a stat that we use the bullpen the most in the majors; any rest afforded a player can't be bad.

Not a bad way to start this west coast trip and to have the Twins tank one, we get a little more ground on them.

Tonight also marked that magical 40 game marker that Sparky Anderson's got us looking at now. 23-17 record, one game out, and it seems as though the only issues we have so far have been where to put some of our aging veterans into the line-up in light of some of the up & coming youngsters. The only disappointments that stand out glaringly to me so far have been Sizemore & Scherzer- and I think a stint in Toledo will do them fine. Volatile guys like Bonderman and Willis have performed admirably; not great but not horrid either. Offensively we've been blessed with the likes of Jackson & Boesch coming out of nowhere to pace this team. I still wish the bottom third of our line-up can generate SOME sort of offense. Porcello needs to find that aggressive groove he had last year; he does seem to rely too much on his heat and doesn't mix his stuff up.

Overall at 40, I'm pretty content. Sure we could improve in some areas (what team couldn't?) and if this team can overtake Minnesota, I think we might be able to catch some steam and hopefully not look back. This team has the talent to contend for the AL Central- it's just streaky enough and I think Leyland still has some magic left in him to muscle out a victory in the face of defeat.

smogboy

May-20-10, 09:16 PM

In my best Jed Clampett impersonation...

Wooo Doggee... we're tied with the Twins alluva sudden!

Thanks to the BoSox for taking the Twins to task the last two games. And more importantly, rather than worry about what's going on in someone else's yard- I'm more pleased to see how our own guys are doing. Bonderman pitched a gem today by striking out eight. Guys like Magglio & Cabrera have been more than up to task on the west coast trip so far and have put up some digits to help the team with some timely hits. And maybe it was me kvetching (doubtful) but it was also nice to see Avila go 2 for 4 today too; if he starts heating up, I can see Laird sitting more.

We're neck & neck in first. Let's string a few together, sweep a few more series, and who knows what can happen. Granted the upcoming Dodgers series won't be a cakewalk by any stretch; the Dodgers have probably been the hottest team in MLB. But they should be able to take care of Seattle relatively easily (they've been miserable this year).

Optimism reigns supreme here for awhile. Until they start taking the gas pipe for an extended period, I'm not one to start complaining... just yet.

smogboy

May-22-10, 12:55 AM

I knew it wasn't gonna be easy. Dontrelle was smoking hot for a good chunk of three innings. And then the wheels came off after he hit a player. And it wasn't that insurmountable of a lead that the Dodgers had either; our bats just went cold and we couldn't get a person on base to save our lives.

Back to one behind the Twins again. The chase is afoot once more.

Ravine

May-22-10, 06:55 AM

Yeah, Baron von Smoggenpfeffer, that was a dead-ass team that took the field at Chavez *ahem* Ravine. I don't think we would have beaten anyone, yesterday.
The previous game, Bondo's start vs. Oakland, was much more satisfying. No pyrotechnics or mega-watt rallies; just took care of business, didn't "beat ourselves," and put in a solid day's work.
Plus, Cabrera was about due for another HR, so he turned that hour-glass over.

smogboy

May-23-10, 02:42 AM

Can't count on the Brewers to do much for us. They took it to the Twins and still end up losing it. So much for trying to make up ground on the folks from Minnesota.

And us taking on the Dodgers? Meh. It was at least a little more spirited of a game earlier. Nice to see we were the national game too. I seriously thought that we were going to get some late inning heroics again, only to have them dashed. Highlights were Brennan Boesch getting some hits in front of his family; that must've been a cool thrill for all involved. I just wish the rest of the team had some decent hacks at the ball like he had.

My scary moment of the night was obviously seeing Jackson get cranked on the noggin. Man- that noise of 95 MPH heat hitting the lid was not pretty. Seeing him collapse faster than an Ilitch abandoned property was not good. Thank goodness all results afterwards were that he's going to be okay. He's gonna have an Excedrin headache for awhile though. I do hate headshots and always admire the guys for having the guts to step back into the box the next time.

Let's hope we can make up some ground on the Twins this weekend. Sure the Dodgers are hotter than Skylab upon re-entry, but let's at least feast on the NL like we did the last few seasons.

And also good to see Ravine back chiming in on the boys of summer too.

Ravine

May-24-10, 05:40 AM

I was glad as hell to see us get one of those games in LA. I smelled a sweep.
Best part, other than Leyland's stunt involving Willis going to the on-deck circle, was Rick Porcello managing to maintain a stoic look while walking to the dugout after having successfully gotten pinch-hitting Manny Ramirez to go after his first pitch-- one which, apparently, looked good to Manny on the way in, but moved at the last second-- and suffocate a bases-loaded, two-out powder keg situation.
Rick was priceless, looking as though he didn't even know who that was, or what he just did.

smogboy

May-24-10, 04:46 PM

Ravine, I seriously didn't think sweep.

The reason being is that I had faith in Porcello and his emergence. In LA, I was honestly hoping that we'd steal one for Galaragga or even Willis, but that fantasy got shattered like cheap glassware at a Jewish wedding. Porcello really is coming into his own after a shaky start this year. I thought for a split second that he might have to make the southbound trek to Toledo for a spell if he was going to continue, but either through Knapp and/or Porcello working things out, he's seemingly righted the ship.

And yes, what he did to ManRam was well worth it.

smogboy

May-26-10, 03:10 PM

Topic I was mulling over last night with the Verlander game. Should Leyland have yanked his horse in the 8th inning? Should Jim Leyland have gone to the bullpen and called out another arm to take on the likes of Gutierrez & bradley who had hit JV pretty well earlier? Sure in hindsight, maybe he should've but how can one yank out the hottest pitcher in the month of May when he had a relatively low pitch count? Such the dilemma to mull over for a split second the day after.

And Verlander's bare handed toss to first was just (as Rod Allen would say) plain SICK! I believe it made an ESPN highlight too.

smogboy

May-27-10, 12:29 AM

This last game versus the lowly Mariners was one where Leyland just needed to go into the clubhouse, load up a handful of oranges into a sweatsock and club the young Mr. Perry for giving away the game in the 8th inning. It was so painful to watch... SO bloody painful especially since Bonderman was masterful for so long. Bondo hasn't been this good in a LONG while and his effort was squandered. Talk about a dagger to the heart. It was tough enough losing the night before with Verlander on the bump, but that can be expected to a certain degree. The M's got used to JV's throws, he might've fatigued a little bit or whatever but doggonit- Perry was a member of the much vaunted and revived Detroit bullpen! We had a comfortable lead too. And to lose it on a night that we could've made up ground doubly sucks.

Darn good effort... wasted.

jefferson78

May-27-10, 11:51 AM

I agree, I like Leyland as a manager but one glaring fault is that he takes too long to pull a pitcher who is obviously struggling. Did he see something we didn't? Perry was getting lit up by almost every batter he was facing and when it came down to giving up the lead or getting out of the inning, Leyland decides to keep him in and he promptly blows up. This is when Zumaya and Coke were warmed up and ready to come in to stop the bleeding. So when Coke does finally get in he shuts them down, but it's too late. The damage had already been done. If I was Bondo I would be major pissed. This hurts even more because the Twinkies lost 2 to the Yanks. Brutal loss and to a bad team at that.
Speaking of Jeremy B. I think he has been the single biggest surprise of this season so far. I admit I did not think he would ever be a regular starter again but he has changed his approach and it has worked out for him. You know he has to be steaming today.

smogboy

May-27-10, 11:09 PM

jefferson78, I think we have the advantage of hindsight when it comes to situations like this. Leyland gets paid to make these hard decisions. Would we have made the same mistake given the same timing and scenario? He's got to be able to make that snap decision to keep the guy in or yank him; see my questioning of keeping Verlander in too long the other night. I'm sure sometimes it's a gut call or sometimes it's based upon known facts (the guy pitched X innings the night before, the guy's got a slight injury, etc.), but it's his call to make. I'd like to think that he makes his calls based upon his years of experience as a baseball man. He's obviously seen and studied more footage than any of us here.

I hate the fact that we lost that game because Perry imploded. I hated the fact that Verlander botched one inning and lost that game. Ultimately I guess we can always blame Leyland for keeping the guy in too long/ not yanking them out soon enough. But we have the oh-so plush luxury of hindsight again.

I'd like to think that in the overall picture, because of Leyland's guidance and expertise- he's probably won more games for us than he's lost with these hard decisions. And as fans, we probably deep down expect him to win games for us. When he does, we don't say much about the manager- but woe befalls Leyland when he makes a move like this and blows a victory.

In the big picture I don't think it affects Leyland, Verlander, Perry or Bonderman negatively or positively- they're consummate professionals and know it's a long season. I'm sure they've already filed these past few games away and will prepare for the next series.

jefferson78

May-28-10, 07:06 AM

While I don't disagree with you Smogboy, my feeling is that you never want to throw away a game. The Tigers will be fighting with the Twins all season for first place, forget the wild card. And how many times has it come down to the end of the season, you're in a close race, so you look back at those few games that you know you should have won and it ends up being the difference between playing in the postseason or going home? Last year was a prime example. It never should have come down to that "extra" game. I know it's a long season but you want to get all the wins you can. And you definitely do not want to give away sure wins.
With that said, I'll give Leyland the benefit of the doubt. I like how he handles his players and it seems that they respect him. I just wish he would realize that so far this season the bullpen has been this team's strength and thus allows you the ability to be more liberal with your entire pen instead of going "all in" with one who is obviously not at his best in that game.

smogboy

May-28-10, 08:49 AM

I just wish he would realize that so far this season the bullpen has been this team's strength and thus allows you the ability to be more liberal with your entire pen instead of going "all in" with one who is obviously not at his best in that game.

This is where Leyland conundrum lies. Based upon everything that he knew about Perry the other night, he had been spectacular and lights out up to that point. Leyland had no issues whatsoever with the bullpen and I agree 120% that it has been our strength. He trusted Perry and even went out and talked to the young man when it seemed as though he might've had some issues; they still had the lead at that point. Obviously something was discussed at that point where Leyland felt comfortable and confident enough in leaving him in there.

Until disaster struck that night for us.

It's always going to be a fine line as to when to yank a guy off of the mound- regardless if he's the starter, the pitch count. the 104 MPH fastball, or has a dominating ERA. We gambled the other night and lost. Sometimes the gambles pay off.

smogboy

May-29-10, 11:07 PM

Lifeless.

That's the only word I can use to describe our team at this point. In the meantime, Minnesota's seeing an opportunity to pull away from the pack. Outside of Cabrera hitting the hat trick of homeruns, we really haven't had much to cheer about.

Maybe, just maybe the dismissal of Willis will shake up the team. That's a tragedy unto itself too. I've heard him speak and he sounds like a super engaging bright young man- but an engaging young man who couldn't stitch together his baseball acumen to remain up here in the bigs. We wish him well wherever he lands and this will always be a stain on the Dombrowski era too.

smogboy

May-30-10, 05:45 PM

Wow... maybe the cutting of Dontrelle Willis to get Max Scherzer into the rotation was something. That was an amazing performance on the mound today by Scherzer. He absolutely made the A's look pathetic at the plate. It was truly dominant to behold and I think Leyand knew it was time to go out there and give the guy a fair departure in front of all the appreciative fans.

Along with Bonderman's pretty darn good performance last time around, the number three & four slots in the rotation suddenly look that much sharper. Given your horses with Verlander and Porcello, these two guys will round out nicely. Give Armando Galaragga a spot start here and there and it could turn out very well down the stretch for this team pitching wise.

We just need to hit a little more consistently. We can't count on Cabrera to go yard to rescue us every time we're in a pinch. It was nice to see Inge & Laird do some damage with the stick for once too. We've counted far too much on the middle third of our line-up to carry this team. Like I've ranted before- we just need better production from the bottom third.

smogboy

June-02-10, 10:56 PM

88 pitches + Galaragga

What more can be said for the game? Never has an imperfect game shown its true colors tonight.

ggores

June-03-10, 07:22 AM

88 pitches + Galaragga

What more can be said for the game? Never has an imperfect game shown its true colors tonight.
Well put, Smog.
A quick reference to the rule book says that when a call is made when the ball is in play in the infield.... the call on the field stands.

Tigers avoid slumping to the level of mediocrity called .500 ball, which unfortunately, Tiger fans seem to be comfortable with year-over-year, and at near mid-point of the marathon, they still have a pulse. I wanna pennant.

firstandten

June-03-10, 07:34 AM

jefferson78

June-03-10, 09:02 AM

I was watching that game last night with my wife and son and we were so geeked and ready to celebrate when that unfortunate ending occurred.
I know we all feel sick about what happened, but it is history and everyone who watched knows that Galarraga legitimately pitched a perfect game. Changing the outcome now does nothing to take away the bad taste in my mouth. It really doesn't matter to me if they change it, which I doubt they will. It is what it is.
I actually feel sorry for the ump because he has to live with this. He knows he made a mistake, and he is suffering because of it. We are all human and thus imperfect. How many times have you wished you could go back and do something different? It doesn't work that way, you live your life and you learn from your failures. Yes, we were robbed of a special moment but after some reflection I cannot but help feeling selfish that things did not work out the way I would have liked.
I think the best thing we can do is give Armando the profs he deserves, celebrate the amazing catch by Austin Jackson and hope that this event is the catalyst for getting this team going again. A nice 10 game win streak would make me feel a lot better. As a Christian, I am taught to forgive and I feel no need to pile on the umpire because we have no idea of the amount of grief he is taking for his act. I just heard him on Drew and Mike and he sounds like a man who is sincerely sorry and horribly depressed.
I believe and trust that in the end something positive will come of this.

smogboy

June-03-10, 09:17 AM

Maybe its time to have instant replay on all baseball calls. A system could be developed where the teams could have 1 or 2 appeals on calls per game.

Hopefully this ump doesn't get fined by MLB for coming out and admitting that he made a mistake. There are plenty of bang-bang plays in baseball and sometimes the umps get it wrong. We have the technology why not use it?

I couldn't agree more. Involve the coaches and management with this call for replays. Let the coaches and teams use it judiciously.

So far it's worked in the NFL so why not use this for MLB. I would be willing to contend that on most nights, their challenges won't even get used, but in an instance like this I'm sure we would've seen Leyland toss the red flag and things would've been corrected.

I wouldn't mind seeing the umpires themselves have more confabs and discuss amongst themselves to make the correct call as opposed to just having trust in one another like that. They've been instilled with the trust to make the right call. They have the technology and the capability to do so. And not meaning to drag other major league sports into it but look at how crucial and critical other sports utilize these to make the correct call.

-the NBA referees will rewind video footage over and over again and regularly put back tenths of a second back on the clock to make sure it's correct.

-the NHL will have multiple reviews to make sure the puck crosses or doesn't cross that line. All the on ice and off ice officials are rounded up and they will even go to Toronto to their HQ to watch video replay to make the correct call (it happened last night in the Flyers/ Blackhawks game on a disputed OT goal)

MLB needs to pull their collective heads out of the sand and leave the dark ages behind. What happened last night will probably (and hopefully) go into the books as an asterisked perfect game. It could also serve to be the watershed moment where it drags Bud Selig out of his ivory tower to make things right so another player AND umpire will never ever have to go through the indignity of this gaffe.

What happened last night not only infuriated Tigers fans who were there, those of us watching at home, but it also put a huge black eye onto a great performance put in by a very classy young man in Armando Galaragga. How he didn't climb out of his skin and go over and chew Joyce out a new rectum was beyond me. Emotions were high last night and I'm glad that Leyland fired out of the dugout as well as the rest of the team to go support their teammate who made history last night. It was a travesty by every measure of justice. Having Joyce admit to the mistake immediately after helps soothe things a little bit, but it's moments like this that come up far too few for the fans and the game itself.

Instead of talking about how to revamp the entire game this morning, we should've been basking in the glow of a great pitching performance by Galaragga. We should be running footage of Austin Jackson's great Willie Mayes-esque catch. We should be marveling at the great Brandon Inge ricochet toss over to first. It's disheartening and maddening to say the least that we should even be discussing what should be an invisible element in the game.

As a Tigers fan, I hope this galvanizes the team and helps energize them for the rest of the year. Armando Galaragga deserved better as should we fans of the game, the Tigers organization, and all of baseball... including Jim Joyce who will forever be questioned and haunted with this call.

smogboy

June-03-10, 09:19 AM

I believe and trust that in the end something positive will come of this.

Some sort of intelligent instant replay policy would go a long way right now.

firstandten

June-03-10, 11:12 AM

I couldn't agree more. Involve the coaches and management with this call for replays. Let the coaches and teams use it judiciously.

So far it's worked in the NFL so why not use this for MLB. I would be willing to contend that on most nights, their challenges won't even get used, but in an instance like this I'm sure we would've seen Leyland toss the red flag and things would've been corrected.

I wouldn't mind seeing the umpires themselves have more confabs and discuss amongst themselves to make the correct call as opposed to just having trust in one another like that. They've been instilled with the trust to make the right call. They have the technology and the capability to do so. And not meaning to drag other major league sports into it but look at how crucial and critical other sports utilize these to make the correct call.

-the NBA referees will rewind video footage over and over again and regularly put back tenths of a second back on the clock to make sure it's correct.

-the NHL will have multiple reviews to make sure the puck crosses or doesn't cross that line. All the on ice and off ice officials are rounded up and they will even go to Toronto to their HQ to watch video replay to make the correct call (it happened last night in the Flyers/ Blackhawks game on a disputed OT goal)

MLB needs to pull their collective heads out of the sand and leave the dark ages behind. What happened last night will probably (and hopefully) go into the books as an asterisked perfect game. It could also serve to be the watershed moment where it drags Bud Selig out of his ivory tower to make things right so another player AND umpire will never ever have to go through the indignity of this gaffe.

What happened last night not only infuriated Tigers fans who were there, those of us watching at home, but it also put a huge black eye onto a great performance put in by a very classy young man in Armando Galaragga. How he didn't climb out of his skin and go over and chew Joyce out a new rectum was beyond me. Emotions were high last night and I'm glad that Leyland fired out of the dugout as well as the rest of the team to go support their teammate who made history last night. It was a travesty by every measure of justice. Having Joyce admit to the mistake immediately after helps soothe things a little bit, but it's moments like this that come up far too few for the fans and the game itself.

Instead of talking about how to revamp the entire game this morning, we should've been basking in the glow of a great pitching performance by Galaragga. We should be running footage of Austin Jackson's great Willie Mayes-esque catch. We should be marveling at the great Brandon Inge ricochet toss over to first. It's disheartening and maddening to say the least that we should even be discussing what should be an invisible element in the game.

As a Tigers fan, I hope this galvanizes the team and helps energize them for the rest of the year. Armando Galaragga deserved better as should we fans of the game, the Tigers organization, and all of baseball... including Jim Joyce who will forever be questioned and haunted with this call.

Great post !

lilpup

June-03-10, 06:46 PM

Very classy for Tigers fans to applaud Joyce at the start of the next game. You know that wouldn't have happened in some other cities.

"When I walked out of the tunnel and got applause from the Tigers fans, I had to wipe the eyes." -- Umpire Jim Joyce, a day after the missed call.

"That was certainly the best three hours and 20 minutes that I've spent in the last 24 hours. After the second inning, I could finally spit, and by the fifth or sixth inning, I felt normal again." -- Joyce.

"There's no doubt he feels bad and terrible. I have a lot of respect for the man. It takes a lot to say you're sorry and to say in interviews he made a mistake." -- Detroit pitcher Armando Galarraga.

smogboy

June-04-10, 02:48 AM

Great post !

Thanks for the kind words. I somehow knew all of those high school journalism classes would some day pay off in some odd way.

But after much thought and hearing debate upon debate about this situation for Galaragga/ Joyce/ the Tigers/ Leyland and such, I couldn't help but feel an immense sense of pride for these people. They showed what class can be in an emotional powder keg.

And y'know what? If Bud Selig chooses never to correct this particular injustice, I think I'm okay with it as long as it starts up some form of instant replay for MLB. I think because of the actions that played out Wednesday night- this perfect game will be one for the ages. I'm not taking anything away from the Halladay & Braden perfect games that happened earlier this season (nor the 18 prior to), but this game is special. While the Phillies & Athletics celebrated their respective pitchers' accomplishments, the rest of the sportsnation only whooped it up for an evening's worth of ESPN highlights. The Galaragga Perfect Game was hotly discussed all across the country the day after- it was more than just a regional game, it was national.

What also made this game special for so many people was how Galaragga handled himself before, during and after. Dignity and class all the way. And for Jim Joyce underneath all of that media scrutiny to be man enough to admit his error immediately after only was another fine bout of class. I also want to note how the team (in particular Cabrera and Laird) went to the defense of Galaragga immediately after the game too. I sincerely think that this game brought this group of guys closer. Seeing them the day after celebrating GM's presentation of the Corvette to Galaragga made up for the celebration that should've happened the night before. In so many ways, this day after event was much more heartfelt and a true celebration of what Armando Galaragga is. He finally got a chance to celebrate which was nice to see.

Long after he hangs up his cleats, I think he'll be forever enshrined as a pivotal figure in baseball history regardless of his ERA, strikeout totals, BBs, and other stats. Borne of a horrific injustice, all of the key figures in this (Galaragga & Joyce) came out of it displaying some of the best virtues of being a human being.

smogboy

June-04-10, 03:09 AM

Meanwhile back to the regularly scheduled programming, it was nice to see lowly Seattle (so low they kicked our butts on the West Coast trip) kick the Twins to the curb tonight. Sure we're playing the pathetic Tribe, but we're doing what we need to do in order to climb back into the thick of things.

A few things that struck me as far as good to see were:

-the emergence of Austin Jackson defensively. In that big cow pasture that's also known as Comerica Park's centerfield, he seems to be mastering it well. Jackson for the last two games has had some top notch defensive gems out there. He seems to get a really good bead on the ball and has a great first step towards finding the range on those balls. Swinging a hot stick (4 for 6) with two runs scored didn't hurt either.

-Ordonez, Cabrera, & Boesch have seemed to be the hottest three guys in the line-up as late. These guys just have the eye and some amazing bat speed to seriously crush the ball. Since all three have been playing so well opposing teams just can't pitch around them any more. Their combined power has really made it a headache for the opposing teams now.

-Has anyone noticed how Brandon Inge is starting to heat up? Maybe it's just feeble Indians pitching but either way, it's good to see him get some timely hits. I'm hoping his confidence takes a step forward with this series.

-Valverde's been untouchable. Have we finally gotten off of the Todd Jones/ Fernando Rodney cardiac inducing roller coaster?

-Joel Zumaya has finally matured. For whatever reason, he's been throwing the triple digit heat and it's actually finding its spot. No longer is it just thrown hard, but he's locating it well and mix it up with an 80 MPH change-up? Very impressive indeed as his ERA drops faster than Leyland's cigarette ashes.

Ravine

June-04-10, 03:16 AM

Galarraga.

kenp

June-04-10, 08:19 AM

Galarraga has to keep pitching well as does Scherzer. If we cant hit at the bottom we need to compensate with pitching.
I hope Avila heats up, or anyone in spots 6,7,8 & 9.

smogboy

June-04-10, 10:14 PM

Galarraga has to keep pitching well as does Scherzer. If we cant hit at the bottom we need to compensate with pitching.
I hope Avila heats up, or anyone in spots 6,7,8 & 9.

Alas none of that happened tonight.

Scherzer gave up a hefty five runs in five innings to a pesky Royals team. And dare we pull up some numbers from the bottom of the line up?

-Raburn 0-3, 1 K and 1 LOB, batting .176
-Santiago (ph for Raburn) 0-1, batting .237
-Inge 1-4, 1 K and 1 LOB, batting .237
-Laird 0-3, 2K and LOB, batting .154
-Everett 0-2, 1 K and 1 LOB, batting .185
-Kelly (ph for Everett) 0-1, batting .271

Seriously the bottom of the line-up can even bat their own weight in average much less the bat-boy's weight. If this team has ANY chance of contending with Minnesota for the lead, Lloyd McLendon had better get these guys in order and get them through this slump, which is starting to look more like a slouch.

smogboy

June-07-10, 09:12 AM

Sorry Adam Everett, but when your stick is about as potent as me swatting at a 90MPH fastball barehanded, it's time to go.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20100607/SPORTS0104/6070358/Reeling-Tigers-cut-ties-with-Adam-Everett

I feel for the guy because he does have some family ties to the area. He seems more than personable and actually had some decent range for a SS in the twilight of his career. Alas I doubt if anyone in the league is going to give him much of a shake at this time of the year unless a quirky injury hits.

I was really kinda pulling for the guy to anchor the SS position until we had a suitable replacement coming up from Toledo. Maybe Danny Worth is it, but it's always a crap shoot. It's times like this that I really miss the likes of Trammell and know in my heart of hearts that he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame for his efforts at that position. Tram set the bar high and until we get someone who can hit and field like that, it's gonna be a sore spot on our team.

GOAT

June-07-10, 09:36 AM

Laird is a bum through and through. How he collects a pay-cheque I'll never know?
Oh yeah Dumbroski is the head guy, I forgot.

smogboy

June-07-10, 10:51 AM

Laird is a bum through and through. How he collects a pay-cheque I'll never know?

If Avila as so much catches any fire within the next few weeks, I can see Laird getting the broom too ala Everett. If nothing else, he's gonna get shelved for the bigger bat too. Like I've ranted before, some of these guys can't even hit their own weight in batting averages- it's pathetic! Bring up the likes of Robinson Diaz, Jeff Kunkel, Mike Rabelo, or Max St. Pierre from Toledo if you need to. I'm sure these guys would kill to be behind the dish and have an opportunity in the bigs. I can't imagine they'd hit any worse than Laird right about now.

Heck, we all saw the Red Wings goalie Jimmy Howard catching some heat from Justin Verlander for kicks the other day. Sign him up and make him our version of Bo Jackson- play two sports!

I think the only thing about Laird that's even keeping him on the roster right now is that he does have a decent arm, has some experience with the battery and is alright defensively. But eventually one does have to reach into the barrel and pull out the lumber and perform. If not, it's the bus ride down I-75 to Toledo or out altogether.

smogboy

June-13-10, 04:39 AM

Saturday night I actually went to the game. I probably sweated off more weight than I care to talk about just sitting there but it's all a part of the attraction of seeing a liv baseball game. I'm just thankful it didn't rain although I wonder if I would've been any less wet.

But alas the game- against a lowly Pittsburgh team, we should've beat them into submission early, fast and often. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy we won the game, but not how we won it. Jeremy Bonderman pitched a pretty darn good game by just giving up two runs in seven innings. He's starting to show that he's more than capable of being one of the top starters for this team. As of now, some could contend that he's the number two behind Verlander. He's lost a little zip from his fastball but seems to have made up for it with location. I still wish he'd have a little more in his arsenal than his fastball and curve. I honestly thought he was working on a splitter at one point and would love to see him have the confidence to toss it. C'mon Rick Knapp- work with him!

But within regards to pitching, I thought the team did well. Zumaya did give up the tying run, but that was also due to some serious aggressive base running on Tabata's part. He stretched what looked like a very very routine single up the middle no less, to a double. I think everyone in the ballpark (Austin Jackson especially) was shocked that he rounded 1st and slid into second like that. Valverde and Coke were routinely solid. And just seeing Valverde pitch ANOTHER scoreless inning was a gem. He's got some of that Lima Time swagger (God rest his soul) and does it in a very calm way. Gone are the days of us having palpitations from watching Todd Jones or Fernando Rodney load the bases up or just bring us to that edge, only to barely squeze it out at the end in a collective gasp.

My biggest frustration of the evening (besides the woolen blanket heat) was watching how many of our guys were stranded on base. I couldn't barely contain myself watching guys in scoring position only to have the batter choke. Routinely were batting helmets tossed on the base paths only to have team mates bring out their gloves and hats to play defense. We had numerous opportunities to blow the game wide open. It should've never gone to a walk-off homerun by Carlos Guillen in the tenth inning.

We stranded 23 on the bases. TWENTY THREE!

Thank goodness Guillen's fragile self did win it because he had the lion's share by leaving SIX all by his lonesome. And we also had to count on two major errors to help us win the game.

Again, I'm thankful we won but against a feeble opponent like Pittsburgh- we should've had more timely hitting. We should've chased their starter by the fourth inning. Our hitting needs to improve ten fold if we are going to stand ANY chance of winning this Central title.

Leyland- I loved the way you managed the pitching with Bondo going solid, Zumaya, Valverde and Coke during the game; they were masterful and you didn't over tax them. But seriously what were you thinking when you had Ryan Raburn batting third? Wasn't this the guy who was sent to the minors earlier in the season? He's only hitting a miserable .173 and stranded four on the bags. He struck out twice and went 0-3. We could've had GENE Rayburn (of Match Game fame) hit just as well. Yes, I know Magglio is still ailing and you don't want to upset the line-up, but why not start Don Kelly in that slot? He came in the game later anyway. Let Kelly start for now until Maggs comes back.

Lest I forget, thanks to Atlanta for disposing of the Twins organization tonight. Every little bit helps.

And the post game fireworks were dandy. I only wish we had some more at the plate during the game. So tonight, thank you for the victory, thanks to the Braves, and thank you for having central AC in my humble space.

ggores

June-13-10, 09:43 AM

We stranded 23 on the bases. TWENTY THREE!

I've often wondered if this is unique to the Tigers, having grown up with a steady stream of a bemoaning George Kell during the after-game show "and the Tiggy's left eighteen men on base. EIGHTEEN!"

Do other teams have this same problem, year after year? Long, long time ago, I was blessed to watch a game at Cominskey {sp?}, and Lou and Tramm tearing it up in the short field. Chicago left somethinG like 20 men on base. TWENTY! A damn riot almost broke out.

But you are right, Smog, it's always frustrating to see them ducks out there, just waiting to bring it home, only ending up to make a run back towards the dugout.

Bonderman, jeez, who would've EVER thought he'd be a saving grace. If it weren't for him, and this is really a demean on Porcello (who really needs to find his slice), we'd really be in the proverbial tank.

The equation is simple - when playing against an opponent that is less talented, then you should win 80 percent of the time. Hopefully, over the next 13 games, the Tigers will do just that. And if they do, in fact, do just that.... then we might have a sinner's chance of creeping up on the Twins. Now THAT's a problem. I just don't think the Twins are going to give up first place easily. And come September, a wild card placement just isn't going to work. Take the pennant!

Ravine

June-14-10, 08:21 AM

Comiskey.
And, I sure do agree: this year, even more so than in years past, the Wild Card spot is absolutely 100% out of the question.
Hell, Sunday morning, I put the AL teams in Winning Percentage order. Here's what it was:
1. Rays
2. Yankees
3. Twins
4. Red Sox
5. Rangers
6. Blue Jays
7. Angels
8. Tigers
9. Athletics
10. White Sox
11. Royals
12. Indians
13. Mariners
14. Orioles
I was disturbed by the result. I knew the Tigers wouldn't place real high, but 8th!!

jefferson78

June-14-10, 09:24 AM

The frustrating thing about following this version of the Tigers is that they have way too many holes in their lineup. Yes, Cabrera, Maggs, Damon, Guillen and Brennan can provide some punch, but beyond that it's a crapshoot. Good pitchers can learn to pitch around the dangerous hitters. It also relies way too much on rookies. Now I love Ajax and Brennan, plus Kelly and Worth look to be decent players, but depending on this many rookies all season long will get you into trouble. When Maggs went out, the offense stalled. Playing Rayburn in the third spot is a ridiculous move.
Is there a reliable defensive catcher out there who can hit better than .270? Christ, I'd be happy with .250! Laird is awesome defensively and he handles pitchers well but cmon' what is he batting, .170? That's horrible. Avila needs to be more consistent.
One player who's anemic average is acceptable is Inge. A good defensive third baseman is like gold, he can save you runs even if he has trouble driving them in. Bottom line is DD has to make a move for more offense or we can forget about passing Minnesota.
As for the pithcing staff, I like how Bonderman and Galaragga have come back, Justin and Scherzer should be able to hold their own and the bullpen looks solid. It would be nice to have one more reiable starter due to the fact that it is a long season and if the offense does not take off it'll place even more importance on starting pitching.

smogboy

June-17-10, 10:46 AM

Alright, credit where credit is due time. We've bagged on the likes of Inge and Laird for the longest time but let's give it up to these two for the last few games where they've actually done dome good with the stick.

Inge's ten game hitting streak ended last night but at least prior to that, his batting average was climbing up impressively. And Gerald Laird even went an impressive 3 for 4 the other night. Last night's two run single was mighty timely as well against a struggling Levan Hernandez.

Now that we lavished them with the due praise, it's time they keep up this improvement. We can't have folks on this boat not carrying their own weight now; there's that magical Mendoza Line number and these two mainstays of the team need to bat at least up to that level. No one doubts their defensive capabilities but once we get the other team's offense off the diamond, we need to get some points too.

We've been feasting on the lowly Pirates and the pathetic Nationals now. With another bottom feeder like the DiamondBacks on the docket, we need to make up some ground on the Twins before we meet up with them at the end of this month.

smogboy

June-18-10, 11:49 PM

Sure the Tigers are a half game out of first place and could conceivably be in first within the next few days. One should HOPE so considering we're taking on some patsy National League teams right now. Hopefully it's building into this delightful little drama versus the Twins at the end of this month to really see what we're made of.

ggores

June-21-10, 08:58 PM

Well, let's see how they fare on this road-trip. Defense I think will be the key if they have a shot at catching the Twins on their homefield. Leyland remarked a couple weeks back that his ball club was a "nice team". Well, I think that was a jab. I can't remember the last time a "nice team" won the pennant in the A.L East, or what is now called the "Central Division". Enough of the quotated cliches. Win some meaningful games, Tigers.

smogboy

June-28-10, 03:42 AM

Well, here it comes. It's the big series against the Twins ON THE ROAD where the Tigers have seemed relatively toothless.

The last week or so worth of games haven't had much to speak about of note. Beating Washington was expected. Going 2-1 against the DBacks wasn't bad and the only major recollection there was the return of Dontrelle Willis & Edwin Jackson. Going 2-4 against better competition like the Mets and Braves showed how anemic and sporadic our offense can be. The one saving grace that I am happy to see as of late has been the starting pitching; they've performed pretty well as of late- but the bullpen's faltered a little bit but that could also be because we've been doing this Inter-League stuff.

Probably the biggest surprise over the last week hasn't been the fumbling & stumbling of the Tigers and Twins but the resurgence of the White Sox. A month ago, they weren't even in the equation and were on the verge of a fire sale. Now damn, if they're not suddenly in the mix and hogging some of the pyramid top. There's still plenty of baseball to be played and we'll see in a few more months whether we're leading, contending or flailing away to even see the leaders of this race.

ggores

June-28-10, 09:28 PM

Austin Jackson just reached first on a bunt. Santiago just caught first base on a bad fielding play.

Ahhh, and so we now have our game, our MEANingful game. Bonderman, though just removed, looked OK. Or I should say, "sounded" OK. I have no cable t.v.

Now, as I listen, and contemplate all of the possibilities that the month of July holds, I'm still not completely convinced about the oh-10 Tigers.

For some reason, I like Gerald Laird. {Rayburn just clutch hit a single}.

Thome, what can you say about this guy? He really has a repertoire of clutch hits.

Tiger's were looking dead and uninspired for a few of those crazy-assed inter-league games. Now they are back and playing within the Division.

Of course, that thicket of a team, known as the Chi-Sox, are going to be heavy on our schedule, and ya'll know that we're gonna get to see some ugly, nasty, brawlball.

There are some bright-spots in the Oh-Ten Tigers. No drama to speak of. That's good. As we gear up for the second-half of the season, it is a good thing to have no dissenters. The pitching? Eh, I dunno. The pitching has kept the Tiger's just above .500, but, I'm sorry, it's going to have to pick up really good.

So, that's my take on a beautiful summer's eve.

One thing, I've noticed, and something that has been largely overlooked, is that, Leyland has these guys playing on a short field. That would be called the infield. Contact, run, stop, catch, throw, hustle.

Catch a pennant.

Ravine

June-28-10, 10:17 PM

Oh, shit...

GOAT

June-29-10, 02:15 PM

smogboy

June-29-10, 03:43 PM

Can they please get rid of this glass figurine now?

http://www.freep.com/article/20100629/SPORTS02/100629017/1319/Joel-Zumaya-(arm)-out-for-season-Tigers-recall-Fien

I mean he is always hurt. While the Tigers are at it get rid of the useless Dumbrowski as well. He is a complete failure.

Sure sure, when he's pitching fine he's electrifying and adored. But now that he's hurt, one has to call him a glass figurine? Did we suddenly forget that up until this point, he's pretty much been lights out on the mound? His 2.58 ERA was more than respectable and there was even talk about him going to the All-Star Game. He had been the primary set-up man for Valverde in the 9th and pretty much untouchable when he was on the mound.

Now if one would've called for getting rid of him prior to or even during the season, it'd be a different story. Trading a player for value is smart. Shipping a player out now is insipid at best. Calling to get rid of Zumaya now is ridiculous because obviously he has no value to anyone and you only made it after he got hurt. Now mind you, I'm fully aware that he is injury prone but there's a time and place to move players along; this isn't one of them.

fanniemae

June-29-10, 05:51 PM

I feel bad for Zoom. He might have had some faults, but he had heart. He must be wondering if he can come back. He sure will try.

smogboy

June-30-10, 01:00 AM

Back to a half game out.

I guess the Twins just had their rage on with the bats today. They collectively smacked Galaragga around pretty well and Denard Span singlehandedly made Detroit pitching look feeble. His three trips were things of beauty and a thing of disgust for us Tiger faithful. Prior to the game, I actually had faith that we were going to be able to get to Blackburn but that went up in smoke by the fifth inning or so.

This game really made it pretty evident to me that neither one of these teams is that good. Whichever team wants to show up and play can win it; neither of them seem to be consistent. On any given night, either team can be going yard only to have their bats go silent on us. Even though some people want to make this game out to be a preview of what's to come at the end of the season or the stretch run, I'm not so sure just yet.

For the Tigers, they need the top third of their line-up to get on base and let their middle three meat & potatoes guys do their dirty work. Any sort of production we can get from the bottom third will be a blessing; this group by far has been the most disappointing and inconsistent. They top 2/3 of this line-up has been the backbone of this team so far.

And as far as the Carlos Guillen experiment at second base has gone, he's still awkward and gangly out there. He turned what should've been a routine double play into a fielder's choice earlier when he bobbled the ball. I know the scorers technically had their hands tied when it came to scoring the play because we did erase the lead runner, but it should've been an inning ending DP. Instead, the Twins kept a runner alive and ended up scoring him. I know he's a Leyland favorite and possibly a Cabrera mentor, but I really wish he'd start heating it up and playing some better defense. The last few games his throws have been awful and his footwork to the position needed has been awfully suspect. I know he still needs some transition time and he's still supposedly a power hitting switch hitter, and maybe it's just me lamenting the loss of Polanco in the off-season, but Guillen really needs to step his game up several notches if this team has a chance.

GOAT

June-30-10, 09:42 AM

I never liked Zumaya because of his injuries. I could care less if his ERA was 1.00. If he is on teh bench due to injury he is useless. To me he is a glass figurine.

I agree that he can't really be shipped out now but I thought he should have been gone after last year at the latest.

Heart don't mean shit and at a professional level it doesn't mean wins.

Now can we get rid of dumbrowski? Any time would be a good time for him. ; )

fanniemae

July-19-10, 05:50 PM

Wish the Tigers would stop running their pitching experiments. It is ok to pitch newbies when we are ahead and the game not on the line. These new ones do need some exposure to the big league. I am sure they are trying to showcase their talent for future trades. This Cleveland series shows that the Tiger management could blow another playoff bid with foolish lineups.

jefferson78

July-27-10, 09:00 AM

So after yesterdays debacle, is the Tigers season "officially" over?
I really thought Sherzer was still pitching OK before he gave up that homer to Joyce (ugh, another Joyce!). Yes, he was a bit wild walking 2 batters, the other was Laird's fault. But he still had that look in his eye and just missed with some pitches even though his pitch count was up. He basically served up the same pitch twice in a row, the first sawing Joyces bat in half. Personally, I would have not given in to a .219 hitter, even if you walk him you're just giving up one run, your team is still in it and you keep the no-no going. How cool would that have been if both teams were to go into the 9th with 2 no-hitters going?
As it is, I believe this loss was the most disheartening this season. Because it exposed the current lineup as unfit for the major leagues, maybe OK for AA ball. The injuries and stack of rookies will doom this team from going to the post season. It's really unfortunate that Boesch picked this time of the season to have his slump. Even though it was expected he would eventually cool off, the extent of his slump has been alarming and Leyland has to move him somewhere else in the lineup because he is hurting the team by batting after Miggy. Getting no production from the catchers spot is aggravating. Christ, Pudge would be preferable than what we have.
Don't get me wrong, I like the rookies we have, but do they all need to play at the same time?
There is now way in heck we can compete day in and day out with this lineup.
The pitchers have not been that bad lately, we just can't get clutch hits to put us over the hump.
I know some may be against this but I honestly think Dombrowski needs to obtain some talent to get us through the rest of the season. If not for the team, at least for the fans who have supported them. If we can still be in the race for the division in late August it would at least provide some excitement going down the stretch. As for having a realistic shot at making the postseason, with the current lineup it is not realistic. A few crucial tweaks here and there and you never know. I don't want to throw in the towel just yet, but more losses like this latest one and my enthusiasm for this season may be long gone.

smogboy

July-27-10, 10:50 AM

As much as I adore the Tigers, even through the really lean years (at times they made the Dead Wings/ Ned Harkness era of the Wings look good)- I still supported them as they're still our team. I'll still support and cheer for this team to do well. The likelihood of them making any sort of post season play is slipping away fast. The only reason this team is still even in the mix (3.0 games out) isn't because we're so mighty, it's more about the mediocrity of our division; neither Chicago nor Minnesota is that blessed either. What is appalling is the amount of salary that we've dumped and we're no better than those two teams. Sure, it's not my money and Ilitch has to dig deeper or sell a few more $5 Hot-N-Readys to make ends meet, but as a fan I still want this team better.

Is it going to happen THIS season? I'm seriously doubting it because of all of the injuries and our total reliance on the rookies. The thought that we could still be buyers at the trade deadline is absurd. If Dombrowski thinks that this team has a chance to compete for a shot at the title, it shouldn't be this year. Do NOT mortgage any more of our future for the likes of older stop gap players like Guillen, Ordonez, Damon, and other players that are nearing or at the twilights of their careers. This team does have a pretty good nucleus of decent talent with the likes of Cabrera, Verlander, and Valverde with the likes of Boesch, Jackson, Porcello, and Perry possibly taking it one level higher soon.

I never want to raise the white flag but one also has to be responsible for this team's health in being a contender. And from the looks of it, this season isn't going to be one where we should be making the earnest attempt at the pennant. We should circle the wagons, re-assess and start looking at what will do it for us next year and possibly 2012, if we're to be somewhat realistic.

jtf1972

July-27-10, 10:18 PM

I'm wondering why the Tigers are supposedly buyers, looking to send what little farm talent is left for guys that may not be around past this September anyway?

There would be a possibility that Damon could bring a prospect (not a good one, but someone.) But what about feeling to see what kind of haul Cabrerra might pull in? I think a 3-way trade that could bring in Prince Fielder and a couple nice prospects would be possible. Or a couple good players & a "Hershell Walker" amount of prospects. The price for him may never be greater. And he is one slip off the wagon from being worthless...

jiminnm

July-28-10, 11:14 AM

As much as I adore the Tigers, even through the really lean years (at times they made the Dead Wings/ Ned Harkness era of the Wings look good)- I still supported them as they're still our team.

smogboy, I laughed when I read your comment. Permanently etched in my mind is a doubleheader I sat all the way through in 1975, when the Tigers lost 16-4 and 11-0 to Oakland (just 2 of their 102 losses that year under the late Ralph Houk). It was very hard to believe that only 3 years earlier 1-2 key hits would have sent the Tigers to the World Series instead of Oakland.

401don

August-09-10, 06:59 PM

As many truly awful Tiger teams as I've watched over the years, I can't ever remember them going into an off-season with only two position spots filled for the next season. Only Cabrera and Jackson are set. Bosch would be the the third but that's not a sure thing at the moment. Guillen should return to DH if they can fill the ss, catcher, third base and left field holes ahead of 2nd base. However Guillen is as likely to get injured running the bases as fielding. That guy could pull a hamstring eating a ham sandwich. On the other hand our pitching is solid. Our number 3 starter just got his first win since mid May yesterday! Okay, now I remember why I stopped posting on the Tigers. I'll shut up now.

smogboy

August-16-10, 10:32 PM

Has Jose Valverde been channeling the ghosts of Todd Jones & Fernando Rodney? He was lights out first half and now he insists on giving us all heart attacks with his walks, wild pitches and loading them up in the 9th.

Sorry, but the only roller coaster I like riding are at Cedar Point.

jefferson78

August-26-10, 09:03 AM

I've absoluttely had it with Jim Leyland and his player managment.
Why would he keep Figaro in the game so long? How can you keep a reliever like him in a tie game throwing 54 pitches?
I know they are pretty much out of the race but it would have been nice to keep that win streak going.
You can blame injuries all you want, but Leyland's insistence on keeping the struggling Boesch batting behind Miggy border on the moronic.
I cannot count the number of times opposing pitchers would pitch around Miggy to face this guy who was obviously struggling. Just like the ninth inning yesterday.
Rayburn should have been up in that spot since he has been carrying a hot bat lately.
It's a crying shame Cabrera has been walked so many times this season. I know it's good strategy by opposing teams but I hate to see it. The only way to prevent it is to have a strong hitter batting behind him and once the AL pitchers figured out how to pitch Brennan he became a non-factor. It was at that time Leyland should have changed the order but he was too stubborn and stupid.
I tell you, for all of the good things that Leyland has done, his in-game player management leaves a lot to be desired. His refusal to start Kenny Rogers in St. Louis during the World Series may have cost us a championship we should have won.

Ravine

September-13-10, 11:10 PM

I have some strong objections to Leyland's decisions, too. I don't have a better guy in mind, but some of Leyland's decisions really frost my ass.

I hope the folks who were so anxious, last season, to have Magglio taken out behind the garage and shot took notice of how lame we started to look after he broke his ankle.

There are only about 15 guys, in MLB, who have amassed 3000+ AB's and have maintained a BA of .300 or higher. Magglio is one of them (over .310, actually) and Cabrera is another.
That accomplishment is no trifle. If we can get Magglio back for one more season-- at a reduced rate, of course-- I'm all for it. We must have somebody with a real bat in the order next to Cabrera; preferably, one in front and one in back, and until somebody else comes along, I don't think we need to feel queasy about having Ordonez, one of the greatest hitters to ever wear a Tiger uniform, stick around. He's not young, but he ain't old, either, and while he's not a good outfielder, so fucking what? He wasn't a good outfielder ten years ago, either.

ggores

September-27-10, 10:38 PM

I would like to tell a story. But first first, I have a couple of questions.

First off, Ravine, are you still stepping out on the ledge? Why have you not atempted suicide this season?

Just kidding.

The first Tiger's game I remember was the locker room scence from the '68 Championship Celebration. Think I had shat my diaper, as I was still learnining how to walk. Ray Layne and Little Al Kaline. Again, correct me if I am wrong. Or don't. Nobody likes being "corrected".

Eddie Brinkman, Pops always told me he was the scnhizzitz. "He can pop one down the line like you've never seen before" is what Dad used to say. And he did.

Bill Freehan was completely old-school, elite, had a glove like a rhino.

Aurealio? Gold-glover, just like Inge.

Ralph Houk?

Ron Leflore.... he was fast....

Mark The Byrd? God rest his soul.

Les Moss?

The Detroit Tigers are a fabled franchise, and maybe one of these years they will make a really good run.

This 2010 season is quickly drawing to a close, and that ball park will be silent from October thru April of 2011.

They will finish above .500. Not bad. BUT! We all know that you need to be at least a .625 to clinch.

I have no idea what D-browski is going to do with his money in the off-season. The Free Agent field is kinda dried up, unfortunately.

But no matter what, I like Tiger's Baseball. In fact, they're the only MLB team I like. It's been fun, kids. See U in 2011.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8PJpCkuU9s

kenp

September-28-10, 09:40 AM

Didnt see Ray Lane. The announcers were George Kell and Larry Osterman. I think Lane was doing radio with Ernie in 68, but not sure. Little Al Kaline as you mentioned was no longer a starter in 68 and winding down his career.
Eddie Brinkman was also a great fielder as was Rodriguez, got them and Joe Coleman in a trade for Denny McClain later in the early 70's
Really enjoyed the video

Ravine

September-29-10, 04:16 AM

Ggores, I live on the ledge. From there, I can keep an eye on things.
And, you are correct, sir (or madam, but I doubt that,) in stating that nobody likes being corrected.
However, from my advantage point here atop the ledge, I can see that Kenp, while correctly naming the broadcast teams, has committed, to print, an erroneous statement, and because it directly refers to a Tiger who is very, very special in my eyes, I cannot let it stand uncorrected, although I would like to thank both of you for breathing a little bit of life into this inert thread, a thread so thanatoid (yes, I made that one up, but it works) that I, long ago, ceased to bother with even checking its pulse.
*Ahem*
"Little" Al Kaline, all 6'2", 180 of him, was a mere (I hate to use that word, anymore, with it having been permanently ruined by Gannon's abuse) 33 years old during the 1968 Tiger season, and was not "winding down" anything. Sadly, he missed about one-third of that season-- and the opportunity to earn an eighth consecutive Gold Glove-- due to an injury, with that injury being Another Story for Another Time.
#6 (I think that sounds so much more dignified than does "Little Al Kaline," don't you agree?) lashed 685 of his 3007 Career Hits after the '68 season, with 85 of them being Home Runs, and retired, at age 39, after the 1974 season.

-Ravine, snaring Ggores' fly ball on a bounce off of the wall and throwing out Kenp at Home Plate

kenp

September-29-10, 08:33 AM

Ravine

September-29-10, 10:17 AM

Understood. You are granted a "mulligan" as compensation for 3rd Base Coach Gene Lamont making yet another dumb-ass decision.

Besides, you are aware of the truth that Brinkman was not the SS on that team (although we should point out that Ggores didn't suggest such a thing in the walk down MemoRay Lane.)
More, on that, later. That matter is connected to another matter that is directly relevant to the original subject.

kenp

September-29-10, 11:50 AM

The Brinkman observation had nothing to do with Ggores post and Brinkman being on the 68 team. I didnt think he meant it that way, the name just got me to thinking of what others said.
To be quite honest Ggores post confused me quite a bit. It would be like me writing something after smoking a big fat one.
Back to Kaline. In 1974, his last year, he played in 147 games, batted over 600 times and had close to 150 hits. That is 6 years after 1968. With that kind of year I must admit, "winding down" wasnt a fair choice of words. Why wasnt Kaline starting at the end of 68? Were they resting him for the post season? Or just in a nice groove with Stanley, Northrup and Horton.

ggores

September-29-10, 08:01 PM

Thanks "Discuss 2010 Tigers". I learn things. And I really do not mind being corrected when correction is due. I like throwing out names, that's all:

Gator Brown
Freehan
Lolich
Rodriguez
John Hiller
Dave Concepcion
Les Moss
Ron Leflore
"Big Daddy" Cecil Fielder
Thurmon Munson
Petry
Morris
Rollie Fingers
Lou Frggin' Brock!
Charlie Hustle
Billy Ball

etc. etc.

I have little time to do deep research, so, again, thanks for corrections.

Completely irrelevant to Tiger's Baseball, I will be pulling for Bobby Cox this season. Thought he would've had a damn stroke by now.

kenp

September-30-10, 07:36 AM

Ggores. I am also rooting for Cox. 4 games to go and they are up by 1.5 games

smogboy

September-30-10, 09:04 AM

Snif snif... as sad as it may be (or is it relief) that the Tigers season is about to come to a close. Getting swept like we did in the day/night games yesterday was painfully obvious. The team isn't in total disarray but we do have some issues to hammer out in the off season. There isn't much to cheer for now unless one's a fan of the other teams going to the post season. Except maybe Miggy having a shot at AL MVP.

kenp

September-30-10, 10:06 AM

Smogboy, dont forget to give props to Jackson for Rookie of the Year. Been above .300 for most of the season until lately. Now at .298
Besides that I will be glad its over.

smogboy

September-30-10, 03:17 PM

Smogboy, dont forget to give props to Jackson for Rookie of the Year. Been above .300 for most of the season until lately. Now at .298
Besides that I will be glad its over.

My apologies to Austin Jackson. I hope he gets Rookie of the Year too. His play really made me heal up a lot faster after sending Curtis Granderson off to the Yankees. On top of the nice bat he's had at the plate, what really impressed me has been his defensive play. That kid has just got jump after hearing the crack of the bat. He seriously patrols that massive Comerica Park centerfield like a predator. Dave Dombrowski really did pull off a major coup with that deal.

Any idea what Jackson would need to nudge his average to something above .300? Maybe I'm splitting hairs here but it sure would be nice to hear that our Rookie of the Year here had a +.300 batting average.

I'm also sure there have been a handful of other good stories to be culled from the 2010 Tigers season too, but I'm just too darn tired to mull most of them over at the moment. I'm looking forward to Fall and closing the door to baseball season soon. Give me a little bit of baseball hibernation and I'm sure I'll be back discussing our fine team again.

jiminnm

October-01-10, 10:28 AM

I often wondered why Kaline wasnt a starter late in 68, but you set me straight. I was only 6.
Gotta hand it to you Ravine, nice info on Kaline.

When people talk about 68 to me they always insist Brinkman was on that team. UGH

Anyway, I will not argue the OUT call at home, I will walk away quietly, but I insist the 3rd base coach waved me in

The hero of 1968 (in addition to Mickey Lolich) should be the other Mickey - Stanley. Mayo Smith moved him from CF to SS late in the season and kept him there thru the World Series because Ray Oyler was such a weak hitter. Stanley performed brilliantly, as did Northrup who moved to CF from RF and Kaline who was back in the lineup in RF.

Brinkman, now gone, was a slick fielder but weak hitter. He may be better known for his famous line to Ray Lane (I think) on live TV from the locker room when the Tigers clinched the 1972 pennant - this is the best f***in' bunch of guys I've ever played with.

Ravine

October-02-10, 02:42 AM

Nice going, Jiminnm. You told part of the story I was promising to tell. I was dragging my feet; thanks for jumping in.

Kaline's arm had been broken, much earlier in the season, by a pitch from Lew Krausse. That necessitated moving Northrup from CF to RF. Stanley took over in CF-- and Creepin' Jesus, he was great at it-- but near the end of the season, with Kaline ready to return, Mayo Smith decided to have Stanley play at SS (where he had almost no experience, but he was such a good athlete, and had such a sure glove, it seemed like a can-do) in place of Ray Oyler, who, as Jiminnm pointed out, was a terribly weak hitter.
The lore has it that Kaline, ever the honorable one, went to Smith and urged him to go, in the World Series, with the guys who got the team there, but Smith, having used the last week (or so) of the season to prepare Stanley for SS duty, told Kaline-- who, by that time, represented everything great about the Olde English D-- to forget it, that he was going to be in RF where he belonged, and so Oyler sat.
I really like Jiminnm's suggestion:
"The hero of 1968 (in addition to Mickey Lolich) should be the other Mickey"
So true. Kaline had a terrific Series, Lolich had the kind of World Series that every baseball-loving kid dreams of (the kind that really doesn't even sound possible,) and Northrup was like a hired killer, but Mickey Stanley & Mayo Smith combined to pull off a maneuver that, while it had to be difficult for Oyler, is an unforgettable moment in the history of our Tigers.
You would think that a team Struck Out seventeen times in Game One would deflate immediately and have no chance.
Of course, as we are loathe to point out, the Cardinals "got us back" 38 years later.
Linkosaurus Rex:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/postseason/1968_WS.shtml