American Motors concept cars & dealership info

[MoparDan]

This is crossing over from the April Fool's prank pulled yesterday & posted on the Detroit side of the fence. A link to what Hot Rod Magazine pulled last year:
http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicles/hrdp_0804_amc_concept_cars/index.html

If you want to buy a new AMC, you'll need to go to Collier Motors in Pikeville NC to get it; it's the last surviving AMC dealership in the world:
http://www.gremlinx.com/AMC-Pikeville.htm

My first car was a '72 Hornet SST with a screaming 232cid straight 6. Not pretty, but that monster went to hell & back with me God knows how many times. :cool: It was christened The Rolling Circus.

[Bigb23]

Didn't the "64 Studebaker" have a 396 4 barrel ? A screaming 4 door.

[MoparDan]

Didn't the "64 Studebaker" have a 396 4 barrel ? A screaming 4 door.

Can't verify that. However, here's a '64 Studebaker Police Car on Barrett-Jackson's website.
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/application/onlinesubmission/lotdetails.aspx?aid=263&ln=424&pop=0&it=1

[ccbatson]

There are a few small companies that refurbish late model Jeep/AMC Grand Wagoneers.

[MoparDan]

Here ya go BigB!
Take 'er for a spin!

http://amcamxjavelin.com/images/jws6_zxrc.jpg

[Bigb23]

A friend of mine had that car new, in racing green. Nice ride.

[MoparDan]

Was it similar to the one you posted in the NASCAR thread on the Detroit side? Very sharp & wicked! :cool:

[ccbatson]

Nice stuff...quirky and not so reliable by my recollection.

I am curious as to parts availability for the AMC stuff prior to Chrysler.

[MoparDan]

Nice stuff...quirky and not so reliable by my recollection.

I am curious as to parts availability for the AMC stuff prior to Chrysler.

I held onto my '72 Hornet until about '86 when I sold it to a friend. I really had no problem getting parts for it. Chrysler supposedly had stamps & dies destroyed(other than Jeep) after the acquisition.

[oldredfordette]

A friend of mine won a brand new Pacer in the Michigan Lottery, it was like driving around in a goldfish bowl. Though I saw one in Royal Oak the other day, it was in good shape and it was kind of snappy.

[Bigb23]

Pacers were kind of quirky, but I had a 81' Chevette. That back seat was legendary.:eek:

356

[MoparDan]

The poor maligned Pacer. Some features were actually ahead of their time. It has managed to ascertain a type of coolness these days & was prominent as the "Mirthmobile" in Wayne's World.

http://reviewsion.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/mirthmobile.jpg

http://www.thickspecs.com/.a/6a00e0098ce040883301053718d6ea970b-800wi

[Bigb23]

The "Mirthmobile" was what I had in mind when I looked for the Pacer pic.;):rolleyes:

[yaktown]

My first car was a 1981 Spirit, my parents bought it for me in Oct 1988. I actually drove that car for 4.5 years, great memories. Growing up, my parents owned a 1974 Hornet Sportabout (wagon) and a 1980 Spirit. I'm still in love with the old AMC's, guess I just love the oddballs/orphans.

[56packman]

My late friend Dick Teague was VP of styling for AMC from the late 50s until the end. He was proud of the Pacer--in as much as he did what his bosses told him to do, on the wole AMC product line. In over 30 years he only had two occasions where he wasn't working around a pre-existing platform, a big handicap to any styling department. He never had the money that the big three had, was always re-skinning someone else's work, on the cheap. The Javelin, AMX and AMX-3 concept car were examples of what he and his staff could do. The Pacer and Gremlin were what the bosses wanted, and they wanted to be different from the big 3.

[Bigb23]

They were doing the right thing in my mind. The Pacer, Gremlin, and Eagle stood out from the rest of the crap of the early 80's.:cool:

[MoparDan]

AMC seemed on the right track where economy was concerned. Considering the competition they did a helluva a job with the limited resources they had. I'll always have a soft spot for them as well. At least the Jeep lives on.
Packman, I bet he had some fascinating stories & experiences to share. Wasn't he a designer for Packard as well?
To borrow a line from Wayne's World, Party On!

[56packman]

Yes, dick was the last VP-design for Packard, and did a masterful job of restyling the 1951 body into the 1955-'56 Packards. My 1956 "400" is one of his great efforts. Dick was also a child actor in silent films, and we had that intrest in common. He and Mrs. Teague used to come hear me at the restaurant I played at, and we visited often. I never tired of his stories He was universally liked by everyone in the industry.

[Bigb23]

56 Packman - were you familiar with "Complete Restorations" in Mt. Clemens ? We were Packard specialists.

360

[MoparDan]

I found this on Wikipedia about Dick Teague. There are so many talented & ingenius people from The Greatest Generation. I'm sure a lot would be impressed with the technology but the generic designs would probably disappoint them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Teague
It was only a few years ago I started reading up on the Packard story; these guys were ahead of their time. I guess that's why I find the plant so fascinating although I've never stepped a foot in Detroit. I keep telling myself I'm going to do a road trip up there to see it & several other "ruins". Any pics of your 400?
BigB, as I'm trying to lay out the plans to do my Charger, any recommendations on a soda blaster? A friend is encouraging me to rent a 15'x25' storage space for 6mos to do the messy work then bring it back to the house to piece it back together. Part of the plan is to set up a home made "paint booth" to do it myself. I'm going to practice on separate body panels before attempting my own car. If nothing else, it should be a learning experience.
I was looking at this from Eastwood Co.
http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump.jsp?itemID=1408&itemType=CONTENT&path=32&KickerID=534&KICKER
This is the compressor I have. I think it will do the job.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_009H0312000B?keyword=compressor
Any info would be greatly appreciated.

[Vic_doucette]

Had a 1974 Hornet, purchased in 1976 with only 5,400 miles on it. Worst POS ever made.
Junk by 50,000 miles in 1980.

[MoparDan]

Had a 1974 Hornet, purchased in 1976 with only 5,400 miles on it. Worst POS ever made.
Junk by 50,000 miles in 1980.

Sorry yours was such a lemon. I got my '72 in '78 with barely 30k on it, then proceeded to add another 100k before selling it. The only major repair was a clutch plate & that was because I burned it up trying to push a friend's '70 Skylark. A couple other HS friends bought AMCs because they were affordable for first time drivers; as I recall they had few problems as well.

[56packman]

56 Packman - were you familiar with "Complete Restorations" in Mt. Clemens ? We were Packard specialists.

360

Bigb23--yes, that was Hank Seitz's place, I was there many times. The car in the picture is the sedan you guys did for Don Curtis, wasn't it?

[Bigb23]

Yeah, the one that rolled off the trailer during transport. We finished it just hours before the Dearborn show, and it won best of show. "Aussie andrew" was my mentor there. I had to make my own "corking" tools. They are up in Marine City now, right ?

[Johnlodge]

My mom's car when I was young:

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/1971-1974-amc-javelin-amx-401-2.jpg
AMC Javelin

[ccbatson]

Dang, if the stamps and dies are gone, I would imagine parts are hard to come by and expensive.

[Bearinabox]

My mom's car when I was young:

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/1971-1974-amc-javelin-amx-401-2.jpg
AMC Javelin
My mom's car when I was young:

http://img4.abload.de/img/imagen16om8l.jpg

The color is about right, but I think the one in the picture is a higher trim level than hers was. It has those fancy plastic hubcaps, chrome exhaust pipe, and a nice shiny bumper. :D

[MoparDan]

My mom's car when I was young:

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/1971-1974-amc-javelin-amx-401-2.jpg
AMC Javelin

Nice ride!
Were you old enough to drive & would she let you take it out for a spin?

[MoparDan]

56 Packman - were you familiar with "Complete Restorations" in Mt. Clemens ? We were Packard specialists.

360

What a beauty! Talk about exuding class & prestige.
BigB, can you check post #20 about a soda blaster?
Thanks!

[yaktown]

There is an annual AMC show at Greenmead in Livonia every summer. If you're looking for parts, there's usually a few swappers there. It takes place August 16 this year. They will also be hosting the national convention in 2010.

/AMC people, the dorks of the car world!

[Bigb23]

What a beauty! Talk about exuding class & prestige.
BigB, can you check post #20 about a soda blaster?
Thanks!

I looked at the ad, and it seems like a good unit for non - commercial use. For media blasting though, crushed walnut shells seem more green friendly.:D

[MoparDan]

I looked at the ad, and it seems like a good unit for non - commercial use. For media blasting though, crushed walnut shells seem more green friendly.:D

Thanks for the looksee & recommendation. I thought about using baking soda...from what I've read it's easy on the environment as well. One drawback appears that it's prone to clumping because of water buildup in the compressor line. I'd planned on getting a regulator to trap the moisture, but if crushed walnut doesn't have that problem & is competitive in price I can go that route as well.
To be honest, I'm probably looking at 6mos down the road at the very earliest I would even attempt to do this. Despite my kids' best efforts I've managed to save a reasonable amount of money towards this project. I'm seriously thinking of going to the point of buying a rotisserie...there's a Northern Tool distributor in San Antonio which carries a few models. When I'm down there later this month I'm going to swing by to see them in person. http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/category_6970_89+78060+786208
I'm interested in the $1299 version. I'll check out the parts stands/trees as well.
I used to be a pretty decent mechanic, just very limited experience where body/paint is concerned. My next purchase will be a book titled "The Key to Bumping Metal" which I understand is excellent. After that it'll be a trip to a local auto salvage yard to buy some dented panels & start schoolin' mahself! :D

[ccbatson]

How do you (BigB) reconcile being a liberal and the interest in vehicles that, according to Al Gore, are destroying the planet?

[Bigb23]

I'm seriously thinking of going to the point of buying a rotisserie.

Thats the way to go, but with your investment in equipment, seriously look at doing some other work after the project also. Maybe sharing the rotisserie through a car club for extra help on labor.
Too bad you're not up in Detroit, I have a sh*t load of air and fabrication tools not being used.

By the way - did anybody hear a faint buzzing noise after Mopar's post ?

:confused::confused::confused::confused:

[MoparDan]

Thats the way to go, but with your investment in equipment, seriously look at doing some other work after the project also. Maybe sharing the rotisserie through a car club for extra help on labor.
Too bad you're not up in Detroit, I have a sh*t load of air and fabrication tools not being used.

By the way - did anybody hear a faint buzzing noise after Mopar's post ?

:confused::confused::confused::confused:

I used to belong to the area Mopar Club but haven't attended a meeting in about 2yrs. One co-worker is a member & am going to see if he can do a little welding for me. He's currently restoring a '67 GTX with a Hemi but I don't think he has a rotisserie anymore. Another co-worker is trying to wrangle an old Bronco from his uncle up in Delaware. If I knew for sure he'd be getting it in the near future I'd hit him up on going 50/50 for major purchases. Plus he only lives about 2miles down the road.
I'll probably get some help from my best friend who used to be a pretty good mechanic himself...he once owned a '70 440 'Cuda but sold it back in '82. Yeah, I'm sure he'd still love to have that back.. Who knew they'd be going for major bucks at auction?
Just checked pricing on walnut vs. soda at Eastwood.com & it's the same. Do you still do any restorations?
History Channel has a program on the Great Lakes...think I'll watch it.

[Bigb23]

Do you still do any restorations?

No, I haven't since about 1990. I did work for two custom car/limo fabricators, and Complete, and also put my time in at a Maaco. But I had to move to larger firms for Machine design and mockups, to get the better health care. And of course, we know whats been happening up here. I'm still a car guy, but have moved to more affordable, smaller projects.

In fact, for the last two years, I sold the majority of my machinist tools and Kennedy boxes, and a Mig welder, but still have managed to keep my Snap On roll around, and essential tools and compressors.

I opened up my profile page - have a look. I'll see if I can dig up a photo of a 440 Super Bee high compress. engine that me and a shipmate built in the kitchen of his Navy housing, out in Long Beach, Cal. It's next to his fridge.:eek:

His wife loved that.:mad:

[MoparDan]

LOL
In the kitchen? Probably easier than keeping it in storage at the base hobby shop while y'all were out at sea.
I'll check your profile out.

[MoparDan]

Since this IS the American Motors thread so to speak...
AMC Hudson Hornet commercial from 1955

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BklXn2w6zKc&feature=related

[Bigb23]

I had friends that had a 55 Hudson, that was built like a tank. But they wrapped it around a tree that was only a few inches across. It was one of those WTF moments. They all lived. But what was the deal on the Hudson ?

[MoparDan]

I had friends that had a 55 Hudson, that was built like a tank. But they wrapped it around a tree that was only a few inches across. It was one of those WTF moments. They all lived. But what was the deal on the Hudson ?

I just thought it was interesting that even though Hudson & Nash had merged they were already calling themselves American Motors. I thought that "officially" didn't occur until about 1970.
Trying to find an old Ambassador commercial with Robert De Niro in it. There's one but it's a very short clip thrown in with several others.

[Bigb23]

If I seem a little jaded - it's because in the early eighties we, (military gear heads), were interfacing and digitizing, Cincinnati Millacron , TC 3 robotic arms, with 5000 watt lasers, that astounded the Universities at the time. And we were written up in the trade journals articles. Now, I can't get a job at the local gas station, (no experience).

Oh well, life sucks. :cool:

[MoparDan]

And the Mirthmobile from Wayne's World.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkHBhk8_6wI&feature=related

[ccbatson]

AMC and Mopar were solid, but always seemed to bring up the rear behind Chevy, and to a lesser extent Ford.

[Bigb23]

Thanks Cc, you always had my "Back End" or was it just "anybody's" back end ? What a guy.

[ccbatson]

I am an equal opportunity American car autoholic, however, currently, Chevy has the top spot, and Chrysler falls into second place.

[ccbatson]

Read the rules lately BigB?

[Bigb23]

I'm done, you win Cc. :( It's your forum. :eek:

[ccbatson]

Keep a level head and try again later...or not, your call.

[MoparDan]

If I seem a little jaded - it's because in the early eighties we, (military gear heads), were interfacing and digitizing, Cincinnati Millacron , TC 3 robotic arms, with 5000 watt lasers, that astounded the Universities at the time. And we were written up in the trade journals articles. Now, I can't get a job at the local gas station, (no experience).

Oh well, life sucks. :cool:

I understand where you're coming from. When I got out of the AF in '92, I really believed having a BS plus 8yrs electronics experience would help me out. We were in a recession at the time & I was laid off twice. I got in with govt & despite its trappings/shortcomings I've stayed with it. Guys that got out after me who stayed around caught on with tech & dot.com companies; they were always on me to jump back into the private sector. After the bubble burst they were out of jobs & very few remained here. My career field in the Guard was basically eliminated about a year or so ago because of the move to digital for the aircraft recording systems. Now the unit is sent directly to the manufacturer(Sony) instead of to an intermediate shop for maintenance. Oh well, my enlistment ends in Dec & I'll over 20yrs in. Won't see the retirement check until age 60 though.
I keep thinking with a Midwesterner in the White House, he'll be more in tune with what's going on in the region than the previous guy. At least he actually mentions the industrial base of this country more often in speeches. We'll see.
Just hang in there as best you can.

[Bigb23]

Super Bee high compress. engine that me and a shipmate built in the kitchen of his Navy housing, out in Long Beach, Cal. It's next to his fridge.

Here's that pic, about 1976. He bought a 68 Super Bee with the engine all apart in the trunk. We rebuilt the engine in his kitchen while our ship was in port. After installation, we had to push start it with a truck, and ran it with open headers for a test run.:eek: It screamed.

437

[MoparDan]

Here's that pic, about 1976. He bought a 68 Super Bee with the engine all apart in the trunk. We rebuilt the engine in his kitchen while our ship was in port. After installation, we had to push start it with a truck, and ran it with open headers for a test run.:eek: It screamed.

437

LOL Sweet! I bet it ran faster than a scalded dog!

[Bigb23]

MoparDan -

Here's a couple of Mopar audio files on Detroit and Motor City Dragway in the 60's. I'll try to import the files, but if they don't work, click on the links.:p

Problem on the import. Here's the links. Enjoy.

http://www.waterwinterwonderland.com/multimedia/audio/mcd67.mp3

http://www.waterwinterwonderland.com/multimedia/audio/ddrag64.mp3

[MoparDan]

MoparDan -

Here's a couple of Mopar audio files on Detroit and Motor City Dragway in the 60's. I'll try to import the files, but if they don't work, click on the links.:p

Problem on the import. Here's the links. Enjoy.

http://www.waterwinterwonderland.com/multimedia/audio/mcd67.mp3

http://www.waterwinterwonderland.com/multimedia/audio/ddrag64.mp3

Those reminded me of the radio spots for Alamo Dragway in San Antonio. Unfortunately that was shut down & is being made into a business park. Here's a link talks about a few other tracks in the S. Texas area that I always heard about.
http://hechointexas.blogspot.com/2008/03/san-antonio-dragstrips-history.html

[56packman]

Mopar Dan states "I just thought it was interesting that even though Hudson & Nash had merged they were already calling themselves American Motors. I thought that "officially" didn't occur until about 1970".

Dan, the merger of Nash and Hudson into American Motors happened in 1954. The Nash and Hudson brands continued to be marketed by AMC until the end of the 1957 model year, after which all AMC models were sold under the Rambler name, reintroducing that name. Ramber began as an enterprise of the Jeffery bicycle company of Kenosha, WI in 1902. THe Rmabler line was expanded in the mid 60s with models like the Ambassador, the high-end AMC offering. Nothing of consequence happened in 1970, although AMC bought Jeep from Kaiser Industries in 1969.

Nash President George Mason saw the end of the post-war pent up demand and accurately predicted tough times ahead for the "little five" (as opposed to the "big three") and was attempting to put together a merger of four independents into what he planned on calling "American Motors". Packard, at the top, to go against Cadillac, Lincoln and Imperial, Hudson, to go against Buick, Olds, Mercury and De Soto (Packard's Clipper line would also be in this bracket), Nash to go against Pontiac, Dodge, Upper end Ford and Studebaker to go against Ford, Chevy and Plymouth. This merger would have made American Motors #3, forcing Chrysler into #4 position. In addition to the car lines they would have Studebaker light and heavy trucks, Kelvinator appliances, Worthington air conditioning, South Bend Lathe, Packard defense, Packard aerospace and Studebaker defense.

Mason died just after the merger of Hudson and Nash, Packard bought Studebaker largely predicated on the final join-up to come, which didn't happen. George Rommney took over after Mason's death, and had no intrest in S-P, history proved him to be wise in that decision. It is daunting to think if there exsisted in AMC's management the ability to marshall all of those companies into one efficient organization.


Yaktown states:

AMC people, the dorks of the car world!

You know, when I was a kid growing up, the families that had AMC (only, never a big 3 car) cars were "that weird family"

[MoparDan]

Packman, thanks for all the history & background info. What I may have been thinking of in reference to 1970 was the Rambler name no longer being used & all the products were branded American Motors.
Any good books you can recommend on the history of Packard? What I have found is that it is both an amazing & tragic story how the company went bankrupt. Then I see all those pictures of the plant...indescribable. Being a Chrysler guy, I saw them come close to the edge back in '79...I hope it doesn't happen.
As for the weird families driving AMCs...I remember when my best friend's mom bought a '72 Sportabout wagon. They weren't weird at all but the car definitely stood out on our street. However, that family on the next block driving the Ambassador...freaky! :eek:

[HPGrmln]

Yaktown-were you at Greenmead this year? I had my ride in the "late-model stock" section. First year I was able to make it.
As far as parts, a lot are interchangeable. Doors and fenders are supposed to be interchable between Gremlins, Hornets, Spirits,Concords and Eagles.Best bet though, is ebay. They also have a very surprising amount of cool toys now. I have 3 different sizes of the "Fresh Cherries" '74 Gremlin in addition to the radio-controlled one. Also have a Lindberg "gremlin Grabber" kit.
Any info you need is on www.Gremlinx.com (http://www.Gremlinx.com). Im on there in the "rides" section somewhere

[56packman]

Packman, thanks for all the history & background info. What I may have been thinking of in reference to 1970 was the Rambler name no longer being used & all the products were branded American Motors.
Any good books you can recommend on the history of Packard? What I have found is that it is both an amazing & tragic story how the company went bankrupt. Then I see all those pictures of the plant...indescribable. Being a Chrysler guy, I saw them come close to the edge back in '79...I hope it doesn't happen.
As for the weird families driving AMCs...I remember when my best friend's mom bought a '72 Sportabout wagon. They weren't weird at all but the car definitely stood out on our street. However, that family on the next block driving the Ambassador...freaky! :eek:

Mopardan--the best book is the Automotive Quarterly Packard book, it's about 3-1/2 inches thick, over 1000 photos, very accurate. There is also "the fall of the Packard Motor Car Compay" by James Neal, an excellent business analysis, devoid of rose colored glasses nostalgia.
The biggest thing going against Packard was their independence, the era of being a stand-alone car company in America ended and the cost of new tooling became unthinkable. Being in a big comglomerate like GM or Ford (or Chrysler)
was the only way after the war. The independents had their last hurrah in the post-war "feeding frenzy" where dang near every person in America wanted a new car, and had the cash to buy it. The independents sold a lot of cars during this period, and would have sold more if the access to raw materials wasn't controlled by the government, who allocated steel, glass, copper, brass and other materials based on each company's pre-war volume, this favored the big three, because they sold more cars than the independents before the war, After the post war demand was met (around 1951) the companies had to get people to trade in perfectly good cars for new cars they really didn't need yet, and the big three decided to battle it out for sales, discounting cars to a price that the independents couldn't touch.
Packard had an excellent defense business, and in certain years the only source of profits. "Engine Charlie" Wilson, Secretary of Defense (former GM executive) saw to it that GM got most of the defense work from the early fifties on. :mad:

[MoparDan]

Packman, again a big thanks on the history & reading recommendation. A few things you wrote that I had completely forgotten about: lack of raw materials & the other companies discounting prices very low.
This fellow on YouTube has a huge collection of auto videos including a good number about Packard such as assembly line, road testing & commercials.
http://www.youtube.com/user/leif4444

Here's the first clip of a program about the proving grounds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBf1ZW2jjOM

[ccbatson]

"Weird"? If that is weird, who wants to be normal?

[yaktown]

Yaktown-were you at Greenmead this year? I had my ride in the "late-model stock" section. First year I was able to make it.
As far as parts, a lot are interchangeable. Doors and fenders are supposed to be interchable between Gremlins, Hornets, Spirits,Concords and Eagles.Best bet though, is ebay. They also have a very surprising amount of cool toys now. I have 3 different sizes of the "Fresh Cherries" '74 Gremlin in addition to the radio-controlled one. Also have a Lindberg "gremlin Grabber" kit.
Any info you need is on www.Gremlinx.com (http://www.Gremlinx.com). Im on there in the "rides" section somewhere

Yes, I was at Greenmead back in August. I don't have a ride to show, I just like to peruse the cars. I once worked with a guy who had a Gremlin, he painted it flat black and was intending to fix it up. I really like the mid 60's Rambler Rogue droptops, cute little ride! I'll keep an eye out for you this year!

[MoparDan]

'69 Javelin featured in Hot Rod Magazine
http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicles/hrdp_0401_1969_amc_javelin/index.html